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Death Battle (And sprite fight animations) (Read 1527913 times)

Started by Long John Killer, April 09, 2015, 03:59:16 AM
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2461  December 28, 2020, 11:09:01 PM
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Well, a few things.  Yes, it was the both of them being reckless that shook the universe, but neither Beerus or Goku were trying 100% (Beerus keeps getting retconned to stupid degrees where it was, what, 70% of his power to start with holding off Goku at the end of Battle of Gods?  To now, like, 0.00001% trying, because they keep needing him being stronger than Goku/Vegeta's new forms in the story's plot until MUI?  He kept getting buffs via retconned dialogue, not any feats of his own, which is why he still had no problem with Battle of Gods' Goku going SSJG x SSJ1) and frankly that scene probably existed solely to counteract the age-old DBZ argument of characters never being as strong as they say because their fights typically are only mountain-tier in destruction with random planet busting.  The whole crux of ki control that DBZ fights are based off of is toxic to fight debates because it's all based on word of mouth over feats.

Beyond that though, this also was an issue that arose in Beerus vs Galaxia.  Dragon Ball has two contradicting canons that neither is placed above the other.  In the anime, Goku gets a ridiculously high permanent stat boost over pure luck that the manga canon lacks.  The anime has his base upgrade permanently to always been SSJG-tier since the first time he achieved it, just 'cuz.  Manga this never happens and his base is still his base, weaker than SSJ1.  All the fights in the manga that the anime also have just downscale their opponents to match Goku's power levels there, this stupid boost is wholehandedly ignored in the story of Dragon Ball, it's just.....there and required to acknowledge in fight debates like this.

SSJG however being able to do this isn't that farfetched.  It's a grade above SSJ3, Goku presenting SSJ3 against Buu and Babadi shook the universe and all its various planes of existence in a destabilizing manner.  And as transformations go, the previous one can't touch the next one.  The jump from that universe shaking to SSJG destroying it isn't that big a jump.
Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 12:53:37 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2462  December 29, 2020, 01:15:06 AM
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This episode reminded me of one of my biggest gripes with Dragon Ball; that being it's overuse of random multiplication tables to indicate a character's power.  Every new villain or transformation or whatever is always hyped up as being eleventy billion times stronger than something or other, which sounds impressive at first shake but doesn't actually mean anything substantive.  It's such an annoying "tell, don't show" method of storytelling.

Not that I have any issue with the outcome of the episode, mind.  As strong as Hulk is, they make a good point in that he is always on a relatively short timer.  Unless he's able to very quickly overwhelm the opponent completely he's likely to run out of steam first; IIRC, the exact same thing was the deciding factor when Hulk lost to Doomsday in the last DB he was in.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2463  December 29, 2020, 01:37:25 AM
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I mean....huh?  It's shown by routinely the new baddie beats them into the ground without a scratch on them, is it not?  The proof of power is....in their display of power?  And the usual means to overcome them is the protag's new transformation tied to some new big emotional resolution, Goku and Gohan's resolve in not losing another innocent life via Krillin and Android 16 respectively.  SSJ3 is the one that doesn't follow this trend, it is the weakest form narratively, mostly just there as a point that "Yeah, Goku COULD solve your problems here because if anyone would find the means over the years he would but he's TRYING to pass the torch", a point that ultimately didn't land, and SSJ4 is more tied to the Baby arc's Saiyan lore connection.  God's another attempt at the Saiyan lore thing like SSJ4 and Blue's supposedly about inner peace. (Super's not so good at getting that across for sure, though)

I guess you can attribute it to a timer per se, but Doomsday's victory was more about his hax ability in that Hulk could not harm him to begin with and his poisons could counteract Hulk's healing which was needed for Hulk's strength and survivability, not that Hulk would revert by default after some time.  Fight wouldn't go on that long to matter either way.
Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 01:45:18 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2464  December 29, 2020, 02:31:25 AM
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IMO, it's just generally symptomatic of Toriyama's extremely short sighted, week-by-week writing style that he never left himself enough time or space to build up or properly explain anything, which is why so much of the alleged massive increases in strength wound up being verbally stated rather than visibly shown.  The stuff that characters were doing to show off their power level in endgame DBZ were more or less visually identical to stuff Goku and Roshi were throwing around in original Dragon Ball.  For as much as DB excels in many aspects that make a great manga, its actual storytelling is pretty slapdash when you get right down to it.

I think that contributes to a lot of the fervor around Dragon Ball content in Death Battle; so much of that series is predicated on characters insisting that they are very very strong and relying on the readers to just roll with it, that when some actually puts in the work to find out whether or not they are, in fact, very very strong fans get miffed because the disbelief can no longer be suspended.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2465  December 31, 2020, 03:25:32 AM
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There is one thing they have that does confound me to wrap my head around.  The Hulk being faster than Broly?  Broly, like everyone else, goes by DBZ stat increases via power levels, he's higher than Beerus thus faster than Beerus.  Beerus should scale to Champa, they had no issue flying between universes right quick. (What was the timeframe of the initial universe sneaking around when Champa first appeared, a few minutes?  Hours?)  I have issue seeing Hulk run at Flash levels of speed to run multiple universes in that timeframe.  Granted, thinking of Hulk as "fast" at all is strange, but still, even with benefit of the doubt I simply never seen him remotely in that range.  That's faster than the majority of Supermen.

Oh, also others seem to say the remaining people in the next season teaser are an Attack on Titan character, Doctor Doom and the Kill la Kill girl.  Only match-up there the DB team have shown some hint at some sort of plan beyond initial spitballing ideas is Mikasa was pit against Spider-Man ages ago in DBX for....reasons?  I did not get it, personally.  Doctor Doom they've mentioned on DBC once or twice how little they get to do same universe fights and shown interested in Doctor Doom versus Magneto at their greatest, but no idea if this is their follow-up on that or whatever.  Kill la Kill I did not watch past episode 2 or 3, did not enjoy it, can't offer much.

....Well, I mean besides years ago when Kill la Kill was current, I remember Sailor Moon fans bringing up her and Usagi were two sides of the same coin of character designing, but HAH like those would be in the same ball park to put in Death Battle.
Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 03:35:10 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2466  February 24, 2021, 10:11:51 PM
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2467  February 24, 2021, 11:46:59 PM
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Ehhhhuhhhh.....'kay then.

I won't remotely pretend I've read all the Star Wars novels.  I think I've read, like, two.  I can't place Yoda's high-end feats simply because in the extended universe, Movies 1-9 are child's play in content for feats.  I'll let others more knowledgeable cover him in detail.  The most I can attribute is Yarael Poof I believe used his control of The Force to his utmost ability and saved a planet from blowing up, but it killed him in the process, and he was, like, better suited for the job than a different Master like Yoda would have been.  But they're probably in the same ballpark; is potentially a planet-level psychic but would kill them in the process.

King Mickey would scale to fighting Master Xehanort's perfected armored Real Organization XIII.  He had to take on all 13 of them at once and beat them in KHIII ReMind.  His power to do so also, like, lit up an infinite number of universes.  I'm honestly not sure of that and high-balling it off memory and trying to discect KH's both confusing plot and just-as confusing multiverse.  But, like, it reached to every World, which contains its own seperate universe (A la Lilo & Stitch "world" is their whole universe of space plus their Earth and galaxy you travel in and whatnot, and each other Disney world is their own universe.  I do not know how this works, frankly, some of the different Disney movie stars are related, yet are sequestered to different universes in KH.  It's weird)

I'm gonna have to go on the hunch that Mickey is stupidly out of Yoda's power range.  In Yoda's favor though, we have no idea Mickey's age is other than vaguely young, and Yoda is, what, a thousand or something?  Yoda's much more experienced for sure.  And The Force allows much, MUCH greater control of most battlefields than KH's borrowing of FF's magic system.

I still imagine King Mickey wins my a landslide.  But hey, maybe Yoda can move the whole Star Wars universe or something.  I dunno.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2468  February 25, 2021, 12:42:26 AM
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Well, after the bullshit excuses they used to have Luke beat Harry Potter, I wouldn't be surprised if Yoda won.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2469  February 25, 2021, 02:34:27 AM
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Luke vs Harry Potter was ages ago.  That was a different team, working under different rules, looking for different win conditions and much less research put into it.  Rule of thumb, by Word of God themselves over at Death Battle, Season 1 should be effectively ignored.  Even if they have accurate winners, their reasoning is more likely than not to not hold up.  It was early into the show's concept and simply did not expect to have the lasting power it did.  Hell, if I recall correctly, Wonder Woman vs Rogue was done in 3 weeks Ben said, all by him?  1 week reading various WW comics he had, 1 week reading random X-Men comics, 1 week animating.  Something like that.

....Granted even the latest episodes I take issue with.  It confounds me still how they thought Beerus would stand up to Galaxia, surely they misunderstood how Sailor Moon works?  Anyways, though, Luke and Harry?  The episode was pretty basic and bare bones, but, like.....Luke's got quite the large victory over Harry with his means to win, no?  I mean, deflecting magic with the lightsaber's dumb, but not like it was needed anyways?  Considerably less than Harry's wand.
Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 05:14:27 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2470  February 25, 2021, 04:39:12 AM
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If you ask me, their research hasn't really improved that much. Of the characters I know, most of the stuff they represent have holes and obvious things that they left out, they should just drop the whole analysis thing and make animations, it would be much better.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2471  March 01, 2021, 11:56:11 PM
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Yoba



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Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 11:27:11 PM by Person Man
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2472  March 04, 2021, 01:01:43 AM
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Huh, they're keeping classic Disney animation as a resource for King Mickey.  Ok then, that complicates things a bit....I was expecting them to just include Fantasia and The Three Musketeers for him, they're directly referenced as events that took place in KH and frankly don't matter much in the long run.  Movie media icon or not, the magic of Fantasia doesn't really matter much one way or another in this context of looking for feats.  But I figured since KH disassociates itself so much from the original takes on both Disney and FF cast (I'd say Square Enix as a whole, yet for some reason they really wanted The World Ends With You to feel authentically tied-in) they'd just stick to what's shown, you know, in KH.  Disney media is freaking vast and not exactly made for this sort of analysis. (Take that weird Scrooge McDuck speed feat where they found him throwing and catching a penny in, what, a 1940's newspaper comic?)

This also run into the contradictory nature of KH's lore to Disney lore.  Similar to Worlds being separate universes in KH but shared planets in some Disney films, KH just ignores most at-the-time modern Disney cartoon stuff.  Like, Goofy never had a son named Max.  So....where does the cut-off begin?  House of Mouse?  Disney reintroducing Oswald the Lucky Rabbit?  How about when Disney had a whole species of homicidal Goofies running around?

I was already guessing Mickey wins use to the simple multiverse scale KH runs on and Mickey has shown feats relating to compared to Star Wars' galaxy-sized stuff, but now you're also throwing in OG old as dirt cartoon physics in?  I'm more curious now how they intend to wrap him all up into one concise character than the episode now.


Episode's out now.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Ok episode overall if rather underselling the KH series.  Next is Shadow the Hedgehog versus the Kill la Kill girl.  I don't get it.  I mean, they made fun of the match-up a while back because of it just being based on their looks.  Which they shot down Mewtwo versus Frieza over.  Is this some ironic continuation of that?  Someone who's familiar with Kill la Kill, what's her connection to Shadow beyond color scheme?
Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 07:40:21 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2473  March 08, 2021, 07:25:22 PM
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Episode's out.



Next week is Shadow the Hedgehog vs Ryuko Matoi.  Time for some good old fashioned EEEEDGE LOOORDS!
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2474  March 08, 2021, 07:38:50 PM
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I wasn't aware Kill la Kill girl was an edge lord.  I legit thought the point of the series was making fun of that, she despised the skimpy outfit and the black and red and all the spikes and having to run through some school of other actual edgelords, getting stuck with her dead grandfather's ancestral scissor blade, because that's a thing.  And something about the ending of the series being about being true to yourself and not to cast shame on revealing your body or some hogwash like that.

I did not make it past episode 2, so I'm just going by hearsay.  Seemed to me just syndicated porn with a cop out reasoning around it at the end, I dunno.

I wasn't aware the series ever got to the realm of power and feats Sonic the Hedgehog did.  From what I recall from the Mewtwo episode, Shadow played tug-o-war with a Unicron-sized shadow demon pulling a planet back and forth.  Didn't know Kill la Kill got planetary feats.

I mean, I'm assuming the next episode is being done solely to end Shadow's losing streak.  They've made him the butt of their jokes for years now.  This is just throwing those fans a bone.
Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 07:48:03 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2475  March 08, 2021, 10:09:51 PM
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Both have faced complete powerhouses before, have been brainwashed, and sacrificed their power to save the world from total destruction in the past (although, her suit had to die for it. Yes, her suit is sentient.) I recall the final showdown in Kill la Kill being made of similarities to the final showdown in Sonic Adventure 2, and that was the best planetary feat Ryuko has against Shadow, but I don't recall her having anything to stop slowing time to a complete halt, but then again, I haven't seen the show in years.

As you said, this is either the end of Shadow's losing streak, or it's going to be another case of "Sayonara."
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2476  March 08, 2021, 10:33:20 PM
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To my knowledge, she doesn't have a giant spoon as a weapon.

Which I can all but guarantee is going to be referenced in the actual episode.  They've made it the killing blow the last Shadow episode, they bring it up sometimes when he showed up in DBC.  They just have a weird on-going in-joke about Shadow's weakness is spoons.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2477  March 15, 2021, 01:20:47 AM
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2478  March 15, 2021, 06:36:18 PM
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Shadow's preview is out.

This brings up a random realization that has bugged me in the past about the Sonic franchise.  They used it as an excuse in the Ramona Flowers/Amy Rose episode a while back too.  Supposedly, in Sonic lore, the anthromorphic human child-sized Hedgehogs have an inherent speed gene that lets all of them run in the ball park speed of Sonic.  It's largely why Amy was allowed to win, because they figure Amy is faster than the speed of sound or whatever game lore Sonic's speed is, been a while since seeing it.

Shadow here, however, has always been stuck with those jet boots explicitly made to be super fast like Sonic.  And supposedly Amy.  He's, not to reference Sonic Adventure 2 too heavily, a fake Hedgehog.

What I'm getting at is, is Death Battle implying that Amy can speedblitz Shadow without his fancy shoes?  Because wow would that be a new notch of stupid for the Sonic universe.


Ryuko's preview now.

So.  Only Life Fibers can harm Life Fibers.  Girl is made out of them.  Implying Shadow can't hurt her.  Ok then.  Also implying the black outfit's not even necessary, could just go naked but whatever.  I'm assuming she's shown such indestructible skin in the show or is this all just assumptions?

Also jeez, the hair is almost as ridiculous as the outfits in that show.  Does the mother have rainbow highlights but only on the inside parting of her hair?
Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 10:07:06 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2479  March 20, 2021, 03:35:07 PM
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Ryuko's mom tried to combine Ryuko's DNA with Life Fibers to make the ultimate weapon, but I don't remember it being successful, so I think her skin is not included with that Life Fiber invulnerability. Also, her suit needs full trust with her to fully use the power of it, in which she has separated from and turned evil for a while due to villain mom and that other happy-go-lucky villain whose name escapes me.

To answer your second question, yes. It is weird. Also, villain mom has made some... interesting advances on both of her daughters, because... fan-service?
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2480  March 22, 2021, 06:30:39 PM
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Well, it's out now.  So much for indestructible life fibers.  That was an exaggeration and a half, they're just mesh steel.  Freaking Big the Cat can harm that.

Next is Lex Luthor and Doctor Doom.  Ah well, so much for the hinted Marvel vs Marvel match with Magneto and Doom in their DBC videos.

I'd assume at first glance Doctor Doom wins, but I don't know how broken they really get with Luthor's impossible intelligence, maybe he'll outlogic Marvel's destiny plan for Victor somehow or something to that stupid degree of comic book logic.

Also side note, congrats on the new weirdest transition to ad, Death Battle.  What was that analogy of the anthromorphic hedgehog and 17-year old girl "ready to perform"?  Was that really not given a second thought?
Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 06:37:22 PM by Long John Killer