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KoF XV (Read 56183 times)

Started by Magma MK-II, December 06, 2018, 01:30:24 PM
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Re: KoF XV
#221  January 15, 2021, 11:02:40 AM
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KoF has always been about what's trendy for the times. In the early and mid-90s, it was simple looking characters that could easily be cosplayed. Later on when the more popular JRPGs introduced more elaborate "fantasy" designs, SNK followed suit. I really wonder how Ash, Liz, and Duolon turn out if mainline-KoF was 3D when they debuted.

I like the new characters in XIV. They give KoF a nice, modern flavor to mix in with the older, legacy cast.
Re: KoF XV
#222  January 15, 2021, 12:43:39 PM
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I'd have to wonder how on earth Duo Lon's foot would work in 3D. XD
Re: KoF XV
#223  January 15, 2021, 01:28:08 PM
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Sorry to say, but I just cannot agree with the idea that KOF XIV char design is "fresh" and "innovative".
The sole reason is because that KOF ALL STAR, a mobile game has better/classier looking designs than KOF XIV.

Here's XIV's attempt at char design


and here's ALL STAR's rendition of a new KOF character


It's clear that a Korean mobile game company has better taste in creating a KOF char than SNK themselves...

I REAAALLLLYYY hope that KOF XV has better designs in general and not some Sylvie-styled color schemes any more...
Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 01:54:51 PM by Kolossoni
Re: KoF XV
#224  January 15, 2021, 02:15:14 PM
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Sylvie was based on a specific j-pop singer who did look like that, her design is irrelevant to the usual skills of the character designers. But it does clearly show what they take inspiration from at the time.
The same game also has
"angsty modern teen with headphones" Shun'ei (wearing headphones isn't really a new idea to show an aloof loner teen)
pajama psychic boy Meitenkun
the sand guy
Geese's chess playing buttler
elite-but-shady-teacher Gang-il (my personal fav of the new XIV guys)
Chinese theater mask girl
a wrestler in a dino suit (that's a new design even if it's an existing character)
a Brazilian ninja
a metal arm boxer
so it's still very varied and touches a lot of bases. Try comparing Gang-il or buttler boy to Kaya instead.
Just because you hate ONE of them doesn't mean much about the designers' tastes.
(well, there's a bunch of those that I don't care for myself, but that was already the case before with the likes of Chin and Choi anyway)
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Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 02:44:21 PM by Byakko
Re: KoF XV
#225  January 15, 2021, 02:48:00 PM
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sylvie is one of the most exciting designs for a fighting game character in a long time. a fighting game character based on an established niche style of clothing. theres nothing "classy" about that KOF AS design, its literally the same generic blonde femme fatale you get in pretty much every fighting game on the market. sylvie was based on harajuku/j-pop style aesthetics. she's not random for the sake of it, its just the style.

while im on that tangent, mian is similarly a very cool design based on an existing cultural phenomena. xanadu is a little unappealing aesthetically, but at least he too is something different.
Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 02:52:19 PM by Umezono
Re: KoF XV
#226  January 15, 2021, 03:08:23 PM
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The point was that not all influence and/or design matches the aesthetics of KOF universe.
Just because Sylvie pays homage to a J-Pop singer doesn't make her "KOF-looking" rather, the very opposite.

It's like Noctis and Negan in Tekken 7. There's some things that should be left out instead of in.

If you'd showed me a picture of Terry and Iori next to Sylvie and Shun'ei in the past and told me they were from the same franchise, I would've laughed and told you to gtfo.

At least Kaya looks like a KOF-esque design. Many of the newer characters look tacky and so KOF MI-ish that it makes me cringe just thinking about the devs agreeing with each other thinking that this was a good idea.

My personal two cents on this KOF design topic.
Re: KoF XV
#227  January 15, 2021, 03:56:26 PM
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KoF has always been about what's trendy for the times. In the early and mid-90s, it was simple looking characters that could easily be cosplayed. Later on when the more popular JRPGs introduced more elaborate "fantasy" designs, SNK followed suit.


yup

Re: KoF XV
#228  January 15, 2021, 04:01:10 PM
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The answer to all of these posts is the same:
I think the reason why is because KOF was always pretty simple looking compared to other 2D fighting games in its era.
Iori had 3 (Red, Blue, White) colors
Kim had 2 (White, Blue) colors
Ryo had 1 (Orange) colors

New characters like Shun and Sylvie has a gazillion number of colors that hurts my eyes.
"""""most""""" classic Kof characters design seems to be something you almost would like to wear in real life.
Not ACTUALLY, but kind of, ok, kind of. They usually from my point of view, look stylish with really few colors.

Since late 3D KOF, they got crazy with colors and unfitting designs. (it was already the case with some strange ones in MI)
3D character models often focus on adding in tons of little details and a bajillion colors and often look more stiff than Kim's pants in XIV.

Sprite based fighters always get to take the simple dimensions and graphics they have and push them to add more personality and depth.

- Hardware limitations.

Back in the day you could only use 15 colors. The advent of 3D graphics means they're no longer restricted, they can FINALLY design whatever they want.
Re: KoF XV
#229  January 15, 2021, 04:14:15 PM
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Re: KoF XV
#230  January 15, 2021, 04:25:06 PM
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Sure.
I know that arcade machines were pretty limited despite their pretty big size, but that's beside the point.

But just because they get more technological freedom doesn't really make up for their bad color decisions and rather unorthodox design choices.

If you really look deep into KOF designs, they were always stylized, but not too exaggerated.
They also reflected each characters' professions as well as their characteristics too.

Kyo = Hot headed high school student
Iori = Edgy rock band member
Chizuru = A traditional Japanese priestess
Athena = An optimistic idol
Kim = A TKD master
Mature & Vice = Secretaries
Ralf & Clark = Soldiers
etc

and......

Shun'ei = A boy prodigy with devil like powers?
Sylvie = what, a failed NESTS experiment?

How can you look at Shun'ei or Sylvie at first glance and think he/she is what they are "described" to be?
Hell, I'd take it if Sylvie was introduced to be a quirky idol rivaling that of Athena or smth, but her bio is irrelevant, her personality is flat, her design (despite being unique) is out of place.

That is nothing to do with how she looks on paper.

I criticize the way the devs presented their "new and fresh" designs to the audience. It was way too out of the blue imo. That's why they were heavily criticized.
Re: KoF XV
#231  January 15, 2021, 05:00:51 PM
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I know that arcade machines were pretty limited despite their pretty big size, but that's beside the point
No, not beside the point, it's the whole point! Ryu and Ken wore literally one color clothing back in 1992. This is why RYO had same colored hair as his Gi. It's the reason why characters were designed a certain way. SNK even mentioned this new design philosophy in interviews. Something along the lines of "we can design things that would give nightmares to our old graphic artists from the Neo Geo era".

They also reflected each characters' professions as well as their characteristics too.

Kyo = Hot headed high school student
[...]
Shun'ei = A boy prodigy with devil like powers?
You just tried to imply Kyo and Shun'ei aren't exactly just the same character. Let me change the wording - "An edgy, rebellious teenager fighting prodigy with a special power that ties him to the overarching plot" <- See? They're the same. They just gave it a new coat of paint with no hardware restrictions to appeal to younger audiences in 2014, not 1994.

Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 05:06:31 PM by walt
Re: KoF XV
#232  January 15, 2021, 05:15:28 PM
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good stuff walt, i hadn't even thought about the implications of the earlier character design- the series design has always been a reflection of fashion trends and thats heavily emphasized in the concept art.

just another reason sylvie is the GOAT
Re: KoF XV
#233  January 15, 2021, 05:21:11 PM
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Kyo = Hot headed high school student
Iori = Edgy rock band member
Chizuru = A traditional Japanese priestess
Athena = An optimistic idol
Kim = A TKD master
Mature & Vice = Secretaries
Ralf & Clark = Soldiers
etc

and......

Shun'ei = A boy prodigy with devil like powers?
Sylvie = what, a failed NESTS experiment?
Okay, this comparison is pure bullshit. You're talking about Shun'ei's powers as if they're something ridiculous, but Kyo, Iori and Chizuru have ancient powers from their clans (who, correct me if I'm wrong, were supposed to defeat a god), Athena is part of the Psycho Soldier team for a reason, Mature can cut through air and Vice has super strenght. I'd ask you what is the difference, but I know what the answer is: stupid whining, just like people who play Pokémon and say only Gen 1 had good designs.
Re: KoF XV
#234  January 15, 2021, 05:23:45 PM
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Yeah, claiming that Shun'ei's powers are less explained than Kyo's is not very honest. Kyo's powers turned out to be directly connected to the big bad of the story, Orochi, as a bunch of old mythology. Consider that Shun'ei is in the same situation.
Mature and Vice are even worse, they were introduced as Rugal's secretaries, somehow got superhuman powers in 96, and did the game ever actually say they got those powers from Orochi beside just saying they served him ? The whole hakkeshuu shtick is never completely explained In actual canon as I recall.

Sylvie's backstory is that she got out of NESTS when it collapsed and now she's trying to pass as a normal person who happened to turn pop star. The design can reflect her own tastes and not necessarily her power archetype. That should be something to call actual good character design, because that's how you make characters that aren't one dimensional. how is that even different from Athena, another pop star who has psychic powers ? Sylvie is another pop star who has lightning powers.
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Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 05:32:21 PM by Byakko
Re: KoF XV
#235  January 15, 2021, 05:35:49 PM
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(A) No, not beside the point, it's the whole point!
[...]
(B) You just tried to imply Kyo and Shun'ei aren't exactly just the same character. Let me change the wording - "An edgy, rebellious teenager fighting prodigy with a special power that ties him to the overarching plot" <- See? They're the same. They just gave it a new coat of paint with no hardware restrictions to appeal to younger audiences in 2014, not 1994.

(A) No, the past is the past. It is irrelevant to KOF XV.
If you are telling me that SNK always wanted to create characters with outrageous designs and that now they are fulfilling their wishes, then that's a darn shame tbh.

Older KOF character designs are what made them famous in the first place. Judging by the overall reception of the most recent game, I think KOF XV won't be a huge turning point for the company either unlike KOF XIII which was artistically heavily traditional.

(B) Your description of Kyo is misplaced from the very beginning.
He was 19 in KOF'94, therefore was NOT a teenager indeed. But he was a high school student nonetheless for bad grades :P.
See? Even your generalized perception of Kyo and Shun'ei was wrong 3 words in from the start of the sentence.

What we know for sure is that his clothes reflect the general Japanese high school student's and therefore allows us to realize that his profession is still a student.

Shun'ei's design is ehhhhhhh.... How can I put this civilly... Confusing?

You don't see a Chinese high school student with that sort of fashion.
Here's a reference to a generic high school student in China:

This is Shun'ei:

He looks more like a damn superhero than a high school student.

Either his design is too over the top (which is the case for MANY new characters in KOF) or he just wears like a goof.
Just to make my point more clear, here are some appropriate/more realistic comparisons of actual good KOF designs:
Japanese high school student:

Traditional Japanese Priestess clothes:

ETC...

The new designs...
Re: KoF XV
#236  January 15, 2021, 05:46:36 PM
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Okay, this comparison is pure bullshit. You're talking about Shun'ei's powers as if they're something ridiculous,

No, I'm actually not. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I am criticizing the lack of Shun'ei's distinctiveness regarding his design in KOF XIV.
At first glance, you wouldn't know what that kid is about.

Judging by his skills, you'd think he is indeed "a boy prodigy with devil like powers". That's not a bad thing.
Hell, Kyo and Iori has flames coming out of their hands.

The reason why I chose to criticize Shun'ei, Sylvie, Meitenkun, Mian, and even Verse's design is that they look so awkward and out of place that it makes me rethink whether I'm playing KOF or not.

Honestly, does Verse even feel like he fits in the franchise?
Meitenkun is another design catastrophe that I can't fathom beyond disbelief.

KOF XIV had the most random designs ever and I think I'm not the only person who feels that way.
Re: KoF XV
#237  January 15, 2021, 06:23:39 PM
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One thing I wanna criticize (again if I already have) is Shun’ei’s face.

He still looks super expressionless and dead inside — whereas Kyo’s new face is oozing personality.

I know it’s not an uncommon practice to do this but it REALLY feels like Shun’s model was just lifted from KOF XIV. I feel like if his personality and body language was a bit more expressive and diverse he’d be a more interesting character despite his design.
Re: KoF XV
#238  January 15, 2021, 06:36:40 PM
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Shun'ei is just what happens when you open up Soul Calibur creation mode, hit random all, and just go with it.
youre a fucking meme. another borewood. REIWOOD. SHIP CONFIRMED.
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i think this a dark souls of a mugen forums.
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Re: KoF XV
#239  January 15, 2021, 06:50:39 PM
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I also feel like KOF designs could be better.
Since  KofXIV, it seems like they want to attract the average new "weebo" with flashy designs.

It's true that most KOF oldschool designs are a bit outdated now.
But I would had wished for less "out of place" designs like Shun'Ei and Meitenkun as exemples...
Sometimes, Shun'Ei just reminds me her from Tekken7 :
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Even if her color scheme is more "consistent" (not sure of the word here)

They also did good ones (to my tastes) like Luong, Nelson... (even if his model is a bit meh compared to the drawing concepts...)
What they did to Kyo in 14 is an exemple of bad taste design idea, (for my own perception) They tried to make him cool for 2010+ audience.
I'm glad we're back to some "kind of" more "classic" Kyo in 15.

I THINK, fighting games needs archetypes, In Street fighter games, archetypes were really simple : Karate guy, sumo, boxer etc.
In KOF, and SNK games in general, I think we always had some stylish choices in costumes and designs. More details, """orenaments""" etc.
But Ithink, it was never with excess.
The excess of uneccessary details with 14 was from amy point of view a bad choice.
A good design of character doesn't need so many flashy colors and tons of details.

To me, quality of design and conept of character is not based on the quantity of colors and details. (even with 3D and less limitations of textures etc)
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Re: KoF XV
#240  January 15, 2021, 06:54:07 PM
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Ugh, don't even bring up Tekken 7's design choices...

I can start another massive discussion regarding that train wreck.