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What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN? (Read 1425 times)

Started by GrimeDoc, April 13, 2021, 02:08:53 AM
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What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#1  April 13, 2021, 02:08:53 AM
  • Retro Fan
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Thought it might be worth discussing what kinds of things pop up in MUGEN characters that bother you to the point you end up taking them out of your roster. Could be good for other creators to understand what to avoid when making their characters so that their projects can be more appealing.

I just downloaded a character whose AI perfectly super cancelled off of a single light attack 5 times in a row, and stuttered the light attack everytime I blocked it. I'm fine with strong AI, and that might be great if you want your character to dominate a Saltybet stream, but when it's so inhuman you can't hit them unless you manipulate it, they gotta get purged from my select.def.
www.youtube.com/user/grimedoctor - Where you can go for MUGEN character guides and updates on my projects. Check it out!

https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/wip-pink-ostrich-battle-circuit-192814.0.html - Go here for my current project, Pink Ostrich from Battle Circuit
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#2  April 13, 2021, 02:48:57 AM
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1- Taking an excessive amount of time to load (To sometimes even freezing or crashing the game)
Hatsune Miku by Yu-Toharu is a perfect example due to the excessive different things (songs,specials,hypers) that are coded in the character. It doesn't help than her A.I is quite brutal. Those are the reasons why I replaced it with another version that has 3d graphics but has much less stuff, but it's more than enough to not crash the game.

DS

Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#3  April 13, 2021, 10:57:31 AM
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That's actually an interesting topic.

Speaking of AI, I was thinking about this a while ago, maybe some authors code their AI in a way that they forget not everyone is a fighting game expert. I'm one of those, I just play for fun and I'm far from good at fighting games. So when the AI is just unbeatable, yeah, at the very least if I like the character, I'll prevent them from showing in the arcade mode.

Other than that, buggy characters, walking on mid air, crashing mugen, freezing mugen, sound effects too loud, effects too flashy/bright, heavy data loading that slows down the game, and so on. Always trying to avoid these.
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#4  April 13, 2021, 11:12:04 AM
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Never thought about it actually.
Probably if the system is too different from the rest of the roster I'll consider converting it or straight out taking it out altogether.

Another minor reason is because it doesn't look aesthetically fitting with the theme of the game. Shades/sprites etc.
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#5  April 13, 2021, 02:47:01 PM
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low quailty.
Check my Odysee Channel videos for latest stuff from me.
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Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#6  April 13, 2021, 03:37:58 PM
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 Characters who don't function correctly to the point fixing them is a waste of effort and characters I personally find too boring to play or too boring to fight.
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#7  April 13, 2021, 04:02:19 PM
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Never thought about it actually.
Probably if the system is too different from the rest of the roster I'll consider converting it or straight out taking it out altogether.

Another minor reason is because it doesn't look aesthetically fitting with the theme of the game. Shades/sprites etc.

Basically the same for me!

I intitially used mugen to make crazy crossovers.
Now, I have a "need" of playing something that looks like a "real" game
-same type of sprites
-similar gameplay

BUT, you can be pretty limited when having these "rules", beside of these 2 bases I use
-KOF (for my SNK type need)
-POTS/CVS (for my Capcom-ish need)

Custom POTS-like Kotaro WIP :
https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/pots-kotaro-custom-ned-trying--192619.0.html And other fighting beauties in mind...
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#8  April 15, 2021, 03:41:48 AM
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When I’m done fighting them for my videos.
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#9  April 15, 2021, 03:43:35 AM
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Honestly, I never take out characters unless they catch me in a bad mood and frustrate me immensely in an arcade run.
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#10  April 15, 2021, 05:25:21 AM
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That's actually an interesting topic.

Speaking of AI, I was thinking about this a while ago, maybe some authors code their AI in a way that they forget not everyone is a fighting game expert. I'm one of those, I just play for fun and I'm far from good at fighting games. So when the AI is just unbeatable, yeah, at the very least if I like the character, I'll prevent them from showing in the arcade mode.

Other than the obvious jank characters (though I do get a kick out of them sometimes) most mugen characters "brutal" AI falter to the same strats as general from kaiser knuckle or really any unfair AI, being destroyed by arbitrary tactics that they can never get a hold of that a human hopefully will realize and count. Depending upon if said strategy isn't totally game breaking or not. Even so it's even more exemplified in mugen since you can just make it hell for the AI by picking a character with super amour or what not. That's if you don't really care about that "honor code" of beating a character with bad AI or just badly designed with a more proper character.

Though with Ikemen go plus and it's data persistence you could technically make an AI smarter with some assisted machine learning that or retooling the ancient AI hints function to be a true machine learning AI for a character. AI's that are a bit more random are generally more interesting and fair for people to play up against though at the same time them being more random may also pose difficulty as well since you can't predict them, but it poses a more of a genuine difficulty.
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#11  April 15, 2021, 05:39:27 AM
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For me when an author or creator refuses to update or fix anyone of their "works."
Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 05:46:20 AM by Kanbei
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#12  April 15, 2021, 06:10:50 AM
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A.I. to me is fine, since I've learned to make it; It's great to watch a good fight when you don't want to play,
and having a Var(59) can help give fix to characters who get stuck in certain states.
What I can't stand is when a character created by a company down through lore,
up through sprite is suddenly given an OSOK pallete bc I pressed Start+Z.
All characters should be meant to be very strong, but illegal palette 12's
have been the bane of my existence. I've had to nerf so many characters to fit tiering by Vs. battles wiki lol
the only Alpha.exe available is by Mugen Archive. It was too small, and the final two palettes made him invincible:
Balancing his files was quite the doozy :) I've worked on the Atrocious Footsies project for 14 years because
of things like this
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#13  April 15, 2021, 08:53:17 AM
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Accuracy is important to me,if a character has modified stats,frame data,hitbox or have a move that it's not from that game.I'll delete.
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#14  April 15, 2021, 12:41:43 PM
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poorly coded and lack of AI (When I used to play Mugen). I make videos of Mugen only for now. I used to play Mugen a lot from 2011 to 2016

The Most Powerful Being!
Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 12:49:24 PM by Aumio Khan
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#15  April 15, 2021, 01:47:39 PM
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That's actually an interesting topic.

Speaking of AI, I was thinking about this a while ago, maybe some authors code their AI in a way that they forget not everyone is a fighting game expert. I'm one of those, I just play for fun and I'm far from good at fighting games. So when the AI is just unbeatable, yeah, at the very least if I like the character, I'll prevent them from showing in the arcade mode.

Other than that, buggy characters, walking on mid air, crashing mugen, freezing mugen, sound effects too loud, effects too flashy/bright, heavy data loading that slows down the game, and so on. Always trying to avoid these.

Your AI is very pleasant to play against. Although AI isn't considered a necessity, I think it's important because if everyone decided not to code AI then you'd have a whole roster of reaction-less opponents especially if you don't have a buddy to play against. Speaking of which, haven't seen you in creation mode for a while now. Anything new in the works?

DS

Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#16  April 15, 2021, 03:24:44 PM
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Your AI is very pleasant to play against. Although AI isn't considered a necessity, I think it's important because if everyone decided not to code AI then you'd have a whole roster of reaction-less opponents especially if you don't have a buddy to play against. Speaking of which, haven't seen you in creation mode for a while now. Anything new in the works?

Thank you man, comments like this are always inspiring. ::)
I always take a special care when coding AI on my chars because I too play against the CPU most of the time. Glad that you like it!

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Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#17  April 15, 2021, 09:21:14 PM
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I'm always just swapping out characters left and right. There's a few I keep around all the time but I've learned having a set slot number and trading out characters and keeping things fresh when I feel it's getting dull is very refreshing.
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Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#18  April 15, 2021, 10:21:42 PM
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I never intend to try to keep most certain creations of absolute good quailty such as KOF (Ikaruga, Soy Sauce, Koopakoot, Vans, etc.), and CVS/POTS (WAY too many to name :P) in my roster since I sometimes see them in a lot of compilations most of the time and it confuses me of how they reflect the way that I should've play with them. In fact I possibly might remove some of em pretty soon as I always tend to try to keep anything that isn't too repetitive for my taste, but who knows, I'll just have to look deeply in depth with some chars to see which are worth my time and which aren't.
He who is brave is free! - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#19  April 29, 2021, 09:10:41 AM
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if there is a new version of the character that plays well than the previous say like for example karin Son from Voltage Gowcaizer Fighter, the only available version is playable for Dos Mugen engine and can still be playable in the recent Mugen engine although the character is outdated with the character being controlled by CPU halfway through the match when player controlling her (that AI can be removable) and doesn't play from source game, I would retain her until a new version of her is released to Mugen, then I will remove this outdated version.
<- numblur one!
Re: What makes you take characters OUT of your MUGEN?
#20  May 04, 2021, 08:32:36 PM
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Lack of updates, the author. Also, tired of making custom ports.lol