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Jiren is here (Read 35032 times)

Started by Iced, December 25, 2021, 01:04:39 AM
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Re: Jiren is here
#21  January 25, 2022, 09:46:16 PM
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Yo!
Sorry for the late reply! I work Sat-Monday and didn't even notice you posted here until I was told in Discord yesterday after noon =p

Thank you for trying out Jiren!

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- For some reason Simul mode completely breaks the character. Players constantly get stuck in custom states and such. At least with 4 Jirens
I finally threw 4 in there to see what happens and you're right! I'd gotten some reports these would break but thought it was a nothitby or playerpush issue. Which they were at one point too. Since my latest release of V4 I hadn't had any reports they were breaking. The issue is that one of the previous coders used a lot of enemy triggers instead of target triggers. Breaking the moves in simul. I spent the better part of today recoding those parts and it looks like I solved it. Watching 4 Jirens in simul didn't break anything (beside my ears)

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- Is the forward dash missing because it's a beta, or because he's a grappler? Just asking because I'd vote against the latter
It's because he'd be too OP with forward dashes. His whole kit was made with not having the fwd dashes in mind. He was extensively tested with and without.

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- "BOY!" and Stomping Crush could use a straight to the ground get hit animation, like in KOF or some of my chars
Can do!

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- Standing light punch Clsn1 might be a bit insane
I can see why you'd think that. Jiren's Lights are Mediums, his mediums are hards and his hards are specials. The clsn1 isn't out of the ordinary for a medium in HDBZ and it's a 8F jab because it follows MP timings.

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- Destroyer Fist wall bounce is too floaty
This uses the same general wall bounce code used in all chars.

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- Fire Kick fire effects on the opponent persist even after he's up and running
If you are thinking the flames should go away after P1 or P2 has control that's not the case with these kinds of attacks in the game.

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- Drop Kick has statetype = S for some frames after he leaves the ground. Can make him air walk if he's hit out of it
- Going with Street Fighter here, Infinity Rush could switch between light/medium/strong versions if you extend it with the respective button
- Infinity Rush shouldn't beat crossups
- Tidal Wave shouldn't display a 2 hit combo. EX version on the other hand could indicate more hits
I will make these fixes/changes

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- Same thing with Justice Tornado
I didn't notice it was applying 2 hits

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- Corner Justice Tornado > Tidal Wave looks like it should be a thing. At the very least with the EX versions
You have to be in his power mode to do these kinds of combos.

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- Justice Tornado wall bounce trajectories are not very combo friendly
I'll play around with them

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- Animation 40 could be one frame longer to help with the 360 commands
This would have to be applied to all characters as the consensus is they should have a universal timing.

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- There could be an advantage to charging Defying Glare all the way, like unblockable or guard crush
- Defying Glare would look better staying planted in place while absorbing hits
- Defying Glare should not hit behind Jiren
I should be able to apply all these

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- I noticed you can't input your own super commands during the opponent's super pauses
That's the only issue the Explodsive Buffering has. I actually solved this issue but it'd take a huge amount of time for me to apply the change. And after the next update of the game comes out I'm moving fully to Ikemen anyway. Which has easier solutions for the issue. So I decided not to waste days on the fix when I'll be moving anyway.

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- Blazing Storm would have more potential if it did not knock down the opponent
I brought this to the team and testers and it was pretty unanimously thought that it'd make the move way too strong.

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- Colossal Uppercut should not have armor on recovery frames
- Maybe add a PalFX to P2 to blend him with the Lv2 Magnetron Rage dome?
I should remove that from the LVL1 recovery.
I cannot add a palfx to P2 because that dome shares colors with Jiren. It's not always red/orange

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- The punching full screen animation in Jiren the Grey is cut towards the bottom in 4:3 aspect ratio
You mean the speed lines?

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- Could be able to cancel normal attacks into Justice Flex (I love the Arnold pose)
Funny enough the initial idea was that it was a special. At that point he could cancel it. But it got reduced to an alternative power charge and I don't think it should be able to cancel as such.

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- Hellfire is another great idea
I'm glad you liked it! It was tough deciding what that should do. If MUGEN had the ability to poison it'd probably have done that instead. Proximity dmg to the flames.

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- He regains a power bar after his finishers. Intentional?
I tested and I believe you are doing them while in power mode and you have 3 bars of meter.
In power mode all finishers no longer cost 3 bars. They cost 2.
This is another standard across all characters.

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- I only bring this up because it's a full game, but, regarding the movelist, LMS is an odd abbreviation for the buttons. LMH is more common. Also, you shouldn't have pictures where strong buttons (red) are to the left of the weak (blue) ones. It's confusing.
I'll pass this along to Balthazar!
Re: Jiren is here
#22  January 26, 2022, 09:43:55 AM
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It's mostly on me for not being up to date with the game. I did hesitate before complaining about SLP, hehe.

It's because he'd be too OP with forward dashes. His whole kit was made with not having the fwd dashes in mind. He was extensively tested with and without.
Could be the worst dash in the game. It just feels odd without one. But it's just one opinion.

This would have to be applied to all characters as the consensus is they should have a universal timing.
Just for Jiren, really. And I did not just make that up. I know you're not making a Capcom game, but fire up Alpha or even Marvel VS Capcom and have Ryu and Zangief jump at the same time and you'll see.

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You mean the speed lines?
I mean this:
https://imgur.com/a/d5ZMsca


I couldn't help but play a little bit more when I went to grab the screenshot, so here's a few more things:

- Many of his normal attacks hit even after being "reversed" (reversaldef). I don't know if that makes any difference in the full game, but in regular Mugen it means they go through autoguard, parries, etc.
- The red aura he gets in anti-projectile attacks is out of sync in the standing medium punch. Some other attacks as well, but only after they connect
- His safe fall anim (5200) seems odd and has the landing dust show up more than once
Re: Jiren is here
#23  January 26, 2022, 02:29:30 PM
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It's mostly on me for not being up to date with the game. I did hesitate before complaining about SLP, hehe.
It's always better to ask if intentional. Many times when I code I'm just speed coding for a short period of time and do stupid stuff.

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Could be the worst dash in the game. It just feels odd without one. But it's just one opinion.
I had been considering adding it with his config.txt
I'll go ahead and do that for the next version. I get I could make it slow and not able to attack out of it. But I really like seeing people use his teleport dash to get in for ground throws and such. Another thought is to have him do his sHP if you input the dash command. It's pretty much his dash equivalent

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Just for Jiren, really. And I did not just make that up. I know you're not making a Capcom game, but fire up Alpha or even Marvel VS Capcom and have Ryu and Zangief jump at the same time and you'll see.
I believe you. I'll run that by the team. It shouldn't be a big deal imo

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I mean this:
https://imgur.com/a/d5ZMsca
What version of mugen are you using. Mine doesn't look like this and neither did Toni's.

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I couldn't help but play a little bit more when I went to grab the screenshot, so here's a few more things:

- Many of his normal attacks hit even after being "reversed" (reversaldef). I don't know if that makes any difference in the full game, but in regular Mugen it means they go through autoguard, parries, etc.
That's right! Keep playing!!!
This is because most normals are using a helper for armor. I assume these moves are hitting his helper instead. This is another thing I am considering recoding when we get to ikemen since it makes armor easier. The current method is the standard armor all of our chars use if they have armor. Without making every anim 1 tic frames it's the best we got for MUGEN =p
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- The red aura he gets in anti-projectile attacks is out of sync in the standing medium punch. Some other attacks as well, but only after they connect
Probably needs a ignorehitpause edit: well that's not it. The only thing I can think of is that the root's pause is making it get out of sync. It should be changing to the root's animelemno though so I'm not sure why it'd be getting out of sync.

Code:
[State 6666, 2] ;this will allow the helper to replicate the same animation than the root
type = ChangeAnim
triggerall = SelfAnimExist(root,Anim) ;prevent debug error on custom anims
trigger1 = Anim != (root, anim)
trigger2 = AnimElemNo(0) > (root, AnimElemNo(0))
value = root, anim
elem = root,AnimElemNo(0)
ignorehitpause = 1

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- His safe fall anim (5200) seems odd and has the landing dust show up more than once
I'll take a look! Thanks for the additional feedback!


Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 02:35:27 PM by JustNoPoint
Re: Jiren is here
#24  January 26, 2022, 03:46:19 PM
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Re: Jiren is here
#25  January 26, 2022, 05:10:39 PM
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But I really like seeing people use his teleport dash to get in for ground throws and such.
I hadn't even thought of that. It kind of makes the dash handicap pointless because that move is already better than I imagined his dash should be.

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What version of mugen are you using. Mine doesn't look like this and neither did Toni's.
It's 1.0 and I can confirm jenngra505's post. Probably just need a different postype for the animation.

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This is because most normals are using a helper for armor. I assume these moves are hitting his helper instead.
I had a look and it's because of this:

Code:
[State 200, 1]
type = HitDef
triggerall = Var(18) <= 15
trigger1 = !MoveContact

Every time you want that condition it should be "!movecontact && !movereversed" instead.

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Probably needs a ignorehitpause edit: well that's not it. The only thing I can think of is that the root's pause is making it get out of sync. It should be changing to the root's animelemno though so I'm not sure why it'd be getting out of sync.

Code:
[State 6666, 2] ;this will allow the helper to replicate the same animation than the root
type = ChangeAnim
triggerall = SelfAnimExist(root,Anim) ;prevent debug error on custom anims
trigger1 = Anim != (root, anim)
trigger2 = AnimElemNo(0) > (root, AnimElemNo(0))
value = root, anim
elem = root,AnimElemNo(0)
ignorehitpause = 1
I think the triggerall should be the only trigger. Let it sync every tick.
Re: Jiren is here
#26  January 26, 2022, 06:31:50 PM
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https://network.mugenguild.com/balthazar/hyperdbz/movelist/movelist.html
Refresh with F5 if needed, I updated the notation buttons on the movelist main page, now they are ordered from Light to Strong. I think that makes a bit more sense?
I did however keep the monniker Strong instead of Heavy, because in the movelist descriptions I refer to 'Strong' versions of moves countless times and I'm not quite ready to replace all of that for every character's movelist just yet!

Of course this change won't be present yet in any of the offline versions of the movelist, but it could be in a next big update.

Thanks for all your feedback man.
Re: Jiren is here
#27  February 18, 2022, 10:54:42 PM
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This should hopefully be the final beta update before he goes into 5.1

Pretty much all that's left is ai and some special intros.

Link to Jiren
https://network.mugenguild.com/balthazar/hyperdbz/character-info.html?name=Jiren

And if you haven't been keeping up he won COTM for December! If you haven't done so please help support him for COTY!
https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/character-year-2021-195257.0.html

Huge changelog from last update
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