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Yun updated (17/10/2020) (Read 5750 times)

Started by KarmaCharmeleon, September 21, 2020, 12:09:33 AM
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Yun updated (17/10/2020)
#1  September 21, 2020, 12:09:33 AM
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Spoiler: Yang (click to see content)
Spoiler: Yun (click to see content)
Spoiler: Terry (click to see content)



Q: What? A beta? Why?
A: This is being released as a beta because all Yang is missing are the sprites I asked about on Yun's release thread. Coding-wise, he's done, minus bugs people might find. Me using placeholder animations might happen again with Wild Wolf, who will see the light as a beta someday.

Q: How do I play Yang?
A: Yang enjoys taking his turns to trade. You want to knock down the opponent with rekkas so you can set up oki with Command Grab, Dive Kick or Palm. Your best normal is Crouching Medium Kick because it allows you to confirm his rekkas; but you don't want to spam this move as his hitbox is not that good. Yang has low health and his BnBs are not that damaging, so playing from behind feels like a mountain to climb. His lvl 3 offers simple and effective damage, but you might want to invest his meter into Seiei Enbu combos, as you can setup an unblockable by doing Dive Kick into any crouching kick while the opponent is being hit by Dive Kick's shadows.

Q: Seiei Enbu? Does this means that Rose is getting Soul Illusion?
A: Yes.

Q: What's next?
A: Updating Genjuro. He already has adapted hitboxes for his normals. Bust Genjuro Mode is on the works too. Don't expect anything on November besides updating these three, tho.
Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 05:23:01 PM by KarmaCharmeleon
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#2  September 21, 2020, 12:49:58 AM
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Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#3  September 21, 2020, 12:51:44 AM
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Woah!!

Dude... you just made every fan of Yun and Yang dream come true. This was unexpected. Thank you for your time and effort. We deeply appreciate it, Karma. :mlol:
I love MUGEN!

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Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 12:27:26 AM by Godlike Emerie
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#4  September 21, 2020, 01:02:32 AM
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I expected you to use his SF3 voice, would've been more consistent with your Yun since his is SF3-based.
I could up the volume again if you wish.
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#5  September 21, 2020, 01:11:31 AM
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I have tested this character, and I must say it's very solid.
A few things can be altered, however, and here's just a list of what I found:

-Most of Yang's moves need to have lower damage on Seiei-Enbu. For example, you can do a 100% combo by spamming HP palm in the corner with 3 bars. Even with just one Palm it does some absurd damage. This goes for pretty much all of Yang's special moves in Seiei-Enbu. Some of his normals are fine, but his hard normals could be lowered. Maybe the damage dampener could be more strict when Seiei-Enbu is activated or Yang's base damage values are lowered.

-The victory portrait (9000, 2) is still Yun. This may be just here because there is no compatible Yang victory portrait yet, and Yun may be the placeholder.

-Forward+HP fails to hit in the corner.

-I'm not sure if this was intentional or not, but if you hit Max Raishin Mahhaken from far away, the second hit misses and the move does not combo when Yang eventually dashed forward for the final flurry of hits.

That is about all I've found when testing. I know this is a beta, and hopefully this feedback that I've given can help out with going past the beta stage.
Again, this is a very solid character, another great work.

im not a PotS creator. im a PanS creator.
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#6  September 21, 2020, 02:02:34 AM
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Nice.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Did you play the new
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#7  September 21, 2020, 02:22:57 AM
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Here are some Yang combos.

im not a PotS creator. im a PanS creator.
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#8  September 21, 2020, 03:16:10 AM
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Hmmm, a beta of Yang? Interesting. Will test this out for sure. :)

And KC, maybe checking Buckus version of Yang could help you out with the missing sprites?

Also, nice combos Jthe! ;)
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#9  September 21, 2020, 07:25:29 AM
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Always a pleasure to see your stuff! I’m gonna try it as soon as I can
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#10  September 22, 2020, 12:01:35 PM
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And KC, maybe checking Buckus version of Yang could help you out with the missing sprites?

He did though, pretty sure that was his base aswell.

While building Yang's .sff I've noticed C.V.S.N.B, Zweifuss, and Buckus have not adapted the entirety of Yun's spriteset, probably due to Buckus system not really needing some of the missing animations. However, the animations in question are needed for POTS system, these being Power Charge, Standing Dodge, Cheap K.O. and Guard Crush. If any of you would be up to headswapping Yun's animations with Yang's head, it would mean the world to me. I did some sheets:

Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#11  September 22, 2020, 01:34:39 PM
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Yang was definitely one of my favorite designs of the SF3 debuts, even if I never really played the games all that much. Having a lot of fun with him in my MUGEN, even if I can't do all too much with him just yet =P Some feedback:

- MAX Raishin Mahhaken needs some tweaking. Canceling it out of a good number of his attacks causes the second hit to miss completely, which means the main portion of the super, while still triggering, can be blocked as a result.
- Tenshin Senkyutai feels very inconsistent, especially the MAX variant. I've had moments where the second portion of the attack misses in matches against the same opponent where it's hit before, with no major difference in execution.
- Not sure if this was intentional or not, but Chou Raishin Mahhaken is zero frames, which makes it nigh unblockable.
- Tourouzan isn't cancelable into Chou Raishin Mahhaken, like it is in SFIV.
   - Kinda nitpicky here, but I wish Tourouzan was super-cancelable in general, more super-cancelable special moves would make Yang's offensive options much better, imo.

Still a decently fun character, even for a beta. He lacks some options [or maybe he just has stuff I personally can't wrap my mind around], but I still enjoy playing as him a good deal.
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#12  September 22, 2020, 02:50:46 PM
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I think that his Seiei-Enbu makes the Custom Combo obsolete, I can do the same amount or even more damage than CC using 1 bar Seiei-Enbu with less effort.
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#13  September 22, 2020, 03:04:38 PM
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Woah!!

Dude... you just made ever fan of Yun and Yang dream come true. I know it's just a beta but this was unexpected. Thank you for your time and effort. We deeply appreciate it, Karma. :mlol:

You're welcome :)


I expected you to use his SF3 voice, would've been more consistent with your Yun since his is SF3-based.
I could up the volume again if you wish.
I was going for 3S voice at first but sadly the voice samples are VERY limited. CvS2 had extra voice samples for Yun.
Sure, would be nice to match other character's volume.

-Most of Yang's moves need to have lower damage on Seiei-Enbu. For example, you can do a 100% combo by spamming HP palm in the corner with 3 bars. Even with just one Palm it does some absurd damage. This goes for pretty much all of Yang's special moves in Seiei-Enbu. Some of his normals are fine, but his hard normals could be lowered. Maybe the damage dampener could be more strict when Seiei-Enbu is activated or Yang's base damage values are lowered.
We adressed this on private but yeah, it was an issue with the dampener buffering moves at the start instead of nerfing them lmao. I recoded the dampener and now he does intended damage.

-The victory portrait (9000, 2) is still Yun. This may be just here because there is no compatible Yang victory portrait yet, and Yun may be the placeholder.
I didn't have any a portrait to replace before but the amazing Trol redid the missing parts of the SFA3MAX artwork <3


-Forward+HP fails to hit in the corner.
Fixed.

-I'm not sure if this was intentional or not, but if you hit Max Raishin Mahhaken from far away, the second hit misses and the move does not combo when Yang eventually dashed forward for the final flurry of hits.
Whoops, fixed.

That is about all I've found when testing. I know this is a beta, and hopefully this feedback that I've given can help out with going past the beta stage.
Again, this is a very solid character, another great work.
Thanks Saltyy <3

Nice.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Thanks Rurouni <3

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk2cuLhbppc[/youtube]
Here are some Yang combos.

Thanks again, Saltyy

Always a pleasure to see your stuff! I’m gonna try it as soon as I can
Heyy, thanks :)

And KC, maybe checking Buckus version of Yang could help you out with the missing sprites?

I checked, the reason the spriters haven't covered those sprites in specific is precisely because Buckus doesnt use them.

He did though, pretty sure that was his base aswell.
I checked Buckus' .sff but it was not his base. Sprites were taken from Froz's color separated spritepack, the axis were fixed using my Yun, and the code was all me.

- MAX Raishin Mahhaken needs some tweaking. Canceling it out of a good number of his attacks causes the second hit to miss completely, which means the main portion of the super, while still triggering, can be blocked as a result.
Fixed.
- Tenshin Senkyutai feels very inconsistent, especially the MAX variant. I've had moments where the second portion of the attack misses in matches against the same opponent where it's hit before, with no major difference in execution.
After testing it a lil bit more I noticed the same. The last couple of kicks randomly whiff sometimes. I'll look into it.
- Not sure if this was intentional or not, but Chou Raishin Mahhaken is zero frames, which makes it nigh unblockable.
Yeah, I'm overcompensating for regular Raishin Mahhaken being kinda garbage, but in USFIV it has a fair amount of frames of startup, so I'll change it.

- Tourouzan isn't cancelable into Chou Raishin Mahhaken, like it is in SFIV.
   - Kinda nitpicky here, but I wish Tourouzan was super-cancelable in general, more super-cancelable special moves would make Yang's offensive options much better, imo.
That's intentional, as Tourouzan is not supercancelable on 3S. I'd like to keep Yang's trades short.

Thanks for the feedback, Proj.13 :)

I think that his Seiei-Enbu makes the Custom Combo obsolete, I can do the same amount or even more damage than CC using 1 bar Seiei-Enbu with less effort.
Hopefully that's fixed with the new dampener. Don't worry, that was took into account while designing install supers for POTS System. 1 Bar install should never outclass Custom Combo. Seiei Enbu/Genei Jin starts to outclass Custom Combo once you have 2 bars, which fits my vision of a lvl 2 version of CC.

I'll share my notes while redesigning Genei Jin:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Allright, I'll upload a second beta once I test something with Yun. Thanks to everyone for the support and the feedback and I hope you're enjoying Yang :)
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#14  September 23, 2020, 12:42:35 AM
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Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#15  September 23, 2020, 04:35:03 AM
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That's understandable for Tourouzan as a whole, but I still think it would be cool if you could at least open up Tourouzan to be canceled into Chou Raishin Mahhaken, since that is the case in SFIV, unless you are truly basing everything outside of that off of Third Strike. One more thing I noticed though this is probably just because of Yang's still in beta, but Tourouzan's effects don't match the palette.

Edit: I also know I talked about this before in either Rose's or Terry's release threads, but I still think you should really just tone down the AI on your characters, man. Dealing with input reading opponents immediately ready to counter your every move is really not fun to deal with. I'm not saying completely neuter them, but some of them are just a bit too much as is.
Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 11:57:01 AM by PRØJECT.13
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#16  September 23, 2020, 03:35:25 PM
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Those are fire. I recognize Kakyoin, but are the others inspired too or are they custom? hey look 'mazing anyway.

That's understandable for Tourouzan as a whole, but I still think it would be cool if you could at least open up Tourouzan to be canceled into Chou Raishin Mahhaken, since that is the case in SFIV, unless you are truly basing everything outside of that off of Third Strike.
The only way to do this being consistent with the system is making Tourouzan super cancelable which I want to avoid. I really don't want Yang to be about long damaging combos. I might increase the damage on the rekkas, tho.
One more thing I noticed though this is probably just because of Yang's still in beta, but Tourouzan's effects don't match the palette.
Havent noticed that before! Thanks for reporting, fixed.

Edit: I also know I talked about this before in either Rose's or Terry's release threads, but I still think you should really just tone down the AI on your characters, man. Dealing with input reading opponents immediately ready to counter your every move is really not fun to deal with. I'm not saying completely neuter them, but some of them are just a bit too much as is.
The only one I think might be on the too much side is Rose but I think its due to her being a bit unbalanced overall with huge base damage and an amazing spammable normal. You pointed fireballs out on the other thread but I honestly don't get it. I can roll into them and punish Rose every time unless she's too far, it's even easier with characters like Yang or Yun with shoulder and teleport respectively. When updating her with Soul Illusion I'll re-study the recovery on the fireballs and tone down her BnBs so he doesnt hit like a truck everytime you make a wrong read.

HUGE NEWS!

Rurouni helped me out and sprited all the sheets Yang needed but the Cheap K.O.
Shout outs to him ;)
Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 03:38:44 PM by KarmaCharmeleon
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#17  September 23, 2020, 03:48:47 PM
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I know AI is subjective and all and I am not going to be a smartass and tell you just to get good however I really dont have issues with the AI.
The legit only Karma char that gives me any issues is Genjuro, Blanka is also a good fight.
 I think the AI is spot on.
Re: Yang (BETA) released, Yun and Terry updated (20/09/2020)
#18  September 23, 2020, 04:25:12 PM
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1st one is Kakyoin, 2nd is loosely based on KFM, the last two are custom.
Re: Yang, Yun and Terry updated (23/09/2020)
#19  September 23, 2020, 08:26:03 PM
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Allright guys, Rurouni made the missing collapse animation and with that and the fixes Yang is FINISHED!.
Re: Yang, Yun and Terry updated (23/09/2020)
#20  September 23, 2020, 08:58:43 PM
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Oh yeah! Yang plays the Custom Combo sound when fully power-charged, but the duo's pretty spot on.
If you'd added the Hiten Souryujin in someway, they wouldn't been ultimate.