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JOE (Read 102834 times)

Started by JustNoPoint, June 12, 2014, 05:51:19 pm
Re: JOE
#61  June 19, 2014, 04:53:44 pm
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Since Joe has so many animations lets let Sean take a break and do only 1 win pose and entrance. We can add more fluff later.
Re: JOE
#62  June 19, 2014, 10:33:27 pm
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I think he should have at least a couple good anims, for activations and stuff like that, sure they can be reused later on.

I can reuse the beer anim pretty easily for a good winpose.
Re: JOE
#63  June 20, 2014, 01:13:33 am
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Just to make sure I'm using the right reference ...Joe Lewis the kickboxer right?
Re: JOE
#64  June 20, 2014, 01:45:25 am
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Yes, sir!
Re: JOE
#65  June 20, 2014, 06:46:35 am
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You know, I have also some ideas for supers:
-(Not enough mine) Gut punch and then knee in face. Enemy is stuned. In Joe's flying glass bottle, which he catches and chops about the enemy's head.
   -MAX version (if you use MAX versions)- All the same, but not bottle. Baseball bat. And yes, she breaks!
           -LVL 3 SUPER VERSION (and it's much more violent)- Spartan Kick. When enemy is lie down, to Joe comes one of his friends and give him Steel Bat. I don't need to talk what happends next!
Re: JOE
#66  June 20, 2014, 10:06:20 pm
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When Joe's early thread was made I had thoughts of him having a rush down style with a variety of mix-ups and ducking.  I like it that it's indeed his gamestyle.

I have some thoughts and questions regarding his current playstyle.

  • I'm wondering if Joe's Overhead Elbow will have a 1-frame link to connect with C.LP on counter hit, further going along with his combo strings leading to large damage.
  • Comeback Technique 1, where he recovers all lost damage upon recovery.  Depending on how high the damage the was given, I feel this would be too good since he'll recover no problem (Ex:  Loses about 45%, regains all back).  Rather, a percentage depending on how high the damage was given is what I'm picturing to balance it out if necessary while any lower will not get adjusted.
  • Comeback Technique 2, where all attacks will be unblockable, personally I would rather limit this feature to certain moves, such as all moves during Ghost Step become either invincible, safe on block, enhanced chip damage, higher hit-stun, etc.  Unblockable might be an alternative for I feel it might be too overpowered and can overall reverse the flow of the match.
  • Will Ghost Fade be able to chain with Ghost Step?  Let's say, a Ghost Fade without input, but using an EX meter, you can cancel the last active frames of Ghost Fade to Ghost Step with enhanced speed.  An EX Ghost Fade connected with EX Ghost Step will have him go at high speed to appear right behind the opponent to further increase his mix-up options and speedy offense.
  • I am picturing Crack Kick to have a feint of sorts.  When Crack Kick is inputted, holding down the button will have him spin empty and even chain with Ghost Fade/Step for escapes/momentum.  Crack Kick by itself can be used as a combo ender as well.  Feint Crack Kick to Ghost Fade (EX or nomral) to EX Ghost Step with enhanced speed after Ghost Fade can be very dangerous.
  • One of his Lv.1 Supers could be a tackle grapple, where after activation, he lunges to the opponent and proceeds to follow with a swift punch/kick a few times.  Unsafe on block, can evade mid attacks, mostly as a quick tool to get in quickly, can get interrupted by low attacks.  Max Lv.1 gives full invincibility
  • One of his Lv.2 involves drinking a bottle of water.  After consuming, all moves after Ghost Fade/Step get different enhancements, such as one of my early suggestions above, for a limited time.  He also slightly regains vitality after walking forward (around 5%-10% depending on which is balanced).  Max Lv.2 lets him consume a different type of beverage, his Ghost Fade/Step is now activated by simply tapping Forward/Back and can chain one into the other, potentially chaining moves from either side as sort of special chaining for mix-up chances.  Enhancements and boosts remain, recovery can be boosted to 7%-12% or higher depending on balance.
  • Lv.3, I didn't really put though, but I'm imagining being activated in the air, but the follow-up must match with Joe's overall personality.

That's just about it of my thoughts.  Good luck on this character.  Sprites are amazing.
Re: JOE
#67  June 20, 2014, 10:11:24 pm
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Will Ghost Fade be able to chain with Ghost Step?  Let's say, a Ghost Fade without input, but using an EX meter, you can cancel the last active frames of Ghost Fade to Ghost Step with enhanced speed.  An EX Ghost Fade connected with EX Ghost Step will have him go at high speed to appear right behind the opponent to further increase his mix-up options and speedy offense.
With something like that, he would start to be insanely versatile, able to go wherever he wants, whenever he wants. It's a bit much IMO. It would require a large downside, like very low strength or make his follow-ups harder to land (weird trajectories hard to predict even for the user himself, small hitboxes), a kind of El Fuerte. For example, if he could pull a Step after a Fade, he would need to not be able to use an attack follow-up after the Step. That sort of downside would be obligatory to balance him.
I think it's better if Joe's options stay at the "just enough" level and he still relies on being a straight hitter. His current design is already pushing the Fight Club inspiration. There's no need to give millions of options with crazy mobility to everyone with countless follow-ups. The Ghost Fade/Step only need to give him a head start for his short ranged strikes, that's what he needs as a close ranged kickboxer. Think of KoF's King but take away the crazy jumps of Tornado Kick or Surprise Rose.
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Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 10:18:33 pm by DKDC
Re: JOE
#68  June 20, 2014, 10:41:35 pm
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Regarding Fade to Step chain it can be limited to only EX moves to balance his mobility.  Without EX and leaving it neutral will indeed make him too quick for offense, borderline broken, makes for an Extra Mode/Boss type character.  The idea of low output or removal of a follow up is indeed a good way to prevent from reaching KI Sabrewolf level of speed while main ring momentum.

The idea of Fade to Step came when I pictured how could a new move fit into his character of bluffing an opponent to a sucker hit and to also see if it'll make him unique in his own way.   It can give him another option of evasiveness when all else fails and will cause drops of meter if gets used for nothing, putting him at greater risk.  EX Fade > EX Step or reverse is what I'm leaning at but it depends if even with these restrictions will still make him too good.

Also it can be used once in a string, so no crazy Fade, Step, Fade stuff, even if it's meter heavy.

Otherwise I'm okay with his current playstyle without this ability.
Re: JOE
#69  June 20, 2014, 10:43:11 pm
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I'm wondering if Joe's Overhead Elbow will have a 1-frame link to connect with C.LP on counter hit, further going along with his combo strings leading to large damage.
It's possible. We'll have to see how strong he is without it. This would be a Buff option

Quote
Comeback Technique 1, where he recovers all lost damage upon recovery.  Depending on how high the damage the was given, I feel this would be too good since he'll recover no problem (Ex:  Loses about 45%, regains all back).  Rather, a percentage depending on how high the damage was given is what I'm picturing to balance it out if necessary while any lower will not get adjusted.
I should reword it better. I mean that for like, the next 5 seconds he would recover any new damage given to him. Not the damage that was given to knock him down
Quote
Comeback Technique 2, where all attacks will be unblockable, personally I would rather limit this feature to certain moves, such as all moves during Ghost Step become either invincible, safe on block, enhanced chip damage, higher hit-stun, etc.  Unblockable might be an alternative for I feel it might be too overpowered and can overall reverse the flow of the match.
This might be true. But keep in mind it uses a whole super bar Again, thinking it'll last for like 3-5 seconds after get up and he does not have a recovery roll option in this one to get in closer or further away like he does in the defense version. Keep in mind if it's too powerful it will be altered or nerfed. Nothing is set in stone

Quote
Will Ghost Fade be able to chain with Ghost Step?  Let's say, a Ghost Fade without input, but using an EX meter, you can cancel the last active frames of Ghost Fade to Ghost Step with enhanced speed.  An EX Ghost Fade connected with EX Ghost Step will have him go at high speed to appear right behind the opponent to further increase his mix-up options and speedy offense.
Byakko answered this one well

Quote
I am picturing Crack Kick to have a feint of sorts.  When Crack Kick is inputted, holding down the button will have him spin empty and even chain with Ghost Fade/Step for escapes/momentum.  Crack Kick by itself can be used as a combo ender as well.  Feint Crack Kick to Ghost Fade (EX or nomral) to EX Ghost Step with enhanced speed after Ghost Fade can be very dangerous.
A fake Crack Kick might be a good idea. It will definitely be a good combo ender!

Quote
One of his Lv.1 Supers could be a tackle grapple, where after activation, he lunges to the opponent and proceeds to follow with a swift punch/kick a few times.  Unsafe on block, can evade mid attacks, mostly as a quick tool to get in quickly, can get interrupted by low attacks.  Max Lv.1 gives full invincibility

One of his Lv.2 involves drinking a bottle of water.  After consuming, all moves after Ghost Fade/Step get different enhancements, such as one of my early suggestions above, for a limited time.  He also slightly regains vitality after walking forward (around 5%-10% depending on which is balanced).  Max Lv.2 lets him consume a different type of beverage, his Ghost Fade/Step is now activated by simply tapping Forward/Back and can chain one into the other, potentially chaining moves from either side as sort of special chaining for mix-up chances.  Enhancements and boosts remain, recovery can be boosted to 7%-12% or higher depending on balance.

Lv.3, I didn't really put though, but I'm imagining being activated in the air, but the follow-up must match with Joe's overall personality.[/li][/list]

I already listed what his supers will probably be. I'll update the 1st post so you can see them right after I submit this post so give it a minute or 2.
Your level 2 idea is pretty much on the table for sure! (though this game has only 1 level and max versions of moves)

Quote
That's just about it of my thoughts.  Good luck on this character.
Thank you! Always feel free to drop any ideas!

Regarding Fade to Step chain it can be limited to only EX moves to balance his mobility.  Without EX and leaving it neutral will indeed make him too quick for offense, borderline broken, makes for an Extra Mode/Boss type character.  The idea of low output or removal of a follow up is indeed a good way to prevent from reaching KI Sabrewolf level of speed while main ring momentum.

The idea of Fade to Step came when I pictured how could a new move fit into his character of bluffing an opponent to a sucker hit and to also see if it'll make him unique in his own way.   It can give him another option of evasiveness when all else fails and will cause drops of meter if gets used for nothing, putting him at greater risk.  EX Fade > EX Step or reverse is what I'm leaning at but it depends if even with these restrictions will still make him too good.
EX cancels like this may be possible. Again, if balance permits :P
Re: JOE
#70  June 28, 2014, 04:45:48 am
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This is operation "Save me and Sean some time/energy"
I thought about this last week but forgot this whole time till now to make this post.

First off, we still need a Punch Guard reversal. We have plenty of punch options already being sprited. So I'll use something from there.
Now I had said "Lariet" for the SF EX Guard crush. But I'm going to change that to the Bryan Fury Roundhouse kick. Sean, just think of it like a focus attack. It'll be used as both (depending on the config option chosen)

With that move being used as a unblockable/focus I'll go ahead and make a more traditional super using Joe's specials. Trying to decide if it should be a super knee lift to give an anti air option or a super crack kick that hits multiple times if connects or blocks to apply more pressure.

Now for shortcuts with Ghost step

LP headbutt can be the same headbutt used in the Super 1

MP elbow drop upper body of Joe could be used for the jumping LP

For Furious Flurry I say go ahead and simplify it by using Joe Higashi's rapid punch. Because every time I imagine this move I see the exact same thing!

LK rising knee could be the same for his kick guard reversal and his LK in the air

SK the spinning sweep kick. This move could also be how the normal sweep looks. Or it could be the new jumping SK and make the crouching SK unique

Ghost Fade

LP We should have a bunch of elbow strikes sprited for Joe by this time. Surely we can reuse one :P

MP The double axe handle could be the same downward punch you want to make for his jumping MP unless there is a specific look you have imagined for it

Anyway, hope this helps give some ideas to lighten the load without him looking too recycled. He'll still have a ton of sprites.
Re: JOE
#71  July 02, 2014, 05:43:41 am
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Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 06:16:39 am by Just No Point
Re: JOE
#72  July 02, 2014, 03:50:37 pm
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Updated Joe. Just tweaked the Crack Kick so that it leaps upwards a bit on Medium and a bit more on Strong.
Joe.air and specials.st updated
Re: JOE
#73  July 03, 2014, 02:16:20 am
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Updated Joe
Added duck turn anim @Sean Altly: I think it needs 1 more frame
jumping MP, MK
crouching MK
Re: JOE
#74  July 08, 2014, 01:40:27 pm
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Does crack kick knock downward? Cody's floats you a bit instead of a downward angle. Not sure if that was your goal or not

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Re: JOE
#75  July 08, 2014, 03:02:44 pm
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It knocks them up into the air a bit, yes. If that's what you mean.
Re: JOE
#76  July 17, 2014, 11:34:31 pm
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Updated Joe with a ton of stuff.

He has the crouching MP that slightly moves him forward.
Neutral Jump SK causes bounce and juggle state
The elbow Target Combo
The overhead elbow @Sean Altly: I think it looks just fine as is IMO
Ghost Step and Ghost Fade
Follow ups include
Slash Elbow (I forgot to add the slice effect I just remembered as I typed this)
Rising Knee
Scythe Kick
Soul Sweeper
And Descent

I didn't get to add the Sliding Specter. I noticed Sean added it much later after I'd been working and haven't DLed it yet to add it to the sff

He's really starting to shape up now!
Re: JOE
#77  July 18, 2014, 01:13:42 am
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nice to hear about him also did you guys founded a voice actor for him yet?
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Re: JOE
#78  July 18, 2014, 01:23:22 am
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If I recall correctly Elric would be voicing him right?
Re: JOE
#79  July 18, 2014, 01:25:19 am
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You're correct.
Re: JOE
#80  July 18, 2014, 01:26:56 am
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He sent in 2 audition files and a voice from those was chosen. But he hasn't been back online in around 15 days.

Will probably have to look for another voice at this rate.