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I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen. (Read 5740 times)

Started by Catacomb soul, August 15, 2022, 01:13:40 pm
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I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#1  August 15, 2022, 01:13:40 pm
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Hello!
Welcome to my post

I've been wanting to copy Katana Zero ever since it was released The afterimage effect in the game, but it was difficult for me. Technically.

That's why I'm asking Help me
A small tip is fine.
I would appreciate it if you could at least explain the reason even if it seems impossible to transplant.

1)Should I adjust the pal value using helper?
I am very confused.

2)Can the color change per frame for each shadow of the afterimage effect?


3)Can the shadow of the afterimage effect appear in the front of the character while the character is not moving?

4)Can the shadow of the afterimage effect appear arbitrarily away from the character?


5)Can you make the shadow of the afterimage effect appear in different colors?


6)Would ikemen-GO's system enable a more sophisticated implementation of the afterimage effect?





This is the afterimage effect of Katana Zero that I want to copy.






















This is the afterimage effect I've tried.









tmi)I know that there is a bug in the afterimage inside the mugen, and I know that afterimage balance adjustment is a tremendous repetition.

Questions are always welcome because they are poorly written.
Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 01:32:10 pm by Catacomb soul
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#2  August 15, 2022, 01:29:50 pm
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Please refrain from using bold texts in your body, cuz it makes people's eyes hurt.

Judging by the example provided, MUGEN won't be able to simulate the same exact effect since afterimages don't have fade outs (it looks really choppy).
You'd need a helper (most likely) for them to fade out accordingly.
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#3  August 15, 2022, 02:37:57 pm
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/
Please refrain from using bold texts in your body, cuz it makes people's eyes hurt.

Judging by the example provided, MUGEN won't be able to simulate the same exact effect since afterimages don't have fade outs (it looks really choppy).
You'd need a helper (most likely) for them to fade out accordingly.
/




The starting color of the afterimage effect looks magenta and the ending color looks green. By the way, is the reason why the middle color is white because of the principle shown in this picture? I've always thought it'd be dark if the afterimage overlapped.






The afterimage of katana zero appears to be the magenta-colored afterimage where the character was located before the second frame at the start of the frame, and the mint-colored afterimage appears where the character was located before the first frame.
And these images fade-out, and they seem to repeat as the character moves.
How can we implement this as a helper within mugen?
Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 02:41:35 pm by Catacomb soul
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#4  August 15, 2022, 03:55:23 pm
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The shades of colors are being reused every five colors or so. The colors themselves seem to be magenta, orange, yellow, green and cyan.

You would need a helper for this definitely, especially if you want them to fade out.

The plan is to make multiple helpers that would share the same animation as the parent is using with using palfx and addalpha parameters. The first copy of the helper (master helper) should remain untouched and should be assigned to be behind the parent.
Then, as the parent moves/jumps or whatever, the master helper should spawn one helper for each frame that is being used assigned with a specific color (magenta/orange/etc) with the transparency. Make them dissolve away slowly and destroy it with destroyself trigger so that the engine doesn't become flooded with helpers.
Repeat until you want the afterimages to stop by destroying the master helper.

You would need to play around with the values here. It's not going to be an easy solution. If there weren't any fade outs, then it would've been easier, but due to the fades helpers are the only option to go with.
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#5  August 15, 2022, 04:17:28 pm
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1)Should I adjust the pal value using helper?
2)Can the color change per frame for each shadow of the afterimage effect?
3)Can the shadow of the afterimage effect appear in the front of the character while the character is not moving?
4)Can the shadow of the afterimage effect appear arbitrarily away from the character?
5)Can you make the shadow of the afterimage effect appear in different colors?
If you haven't read this yet, it should help you out a bit
https://mugenguild.com/forum/msg.2166876

1 seems that you should use  paladd and/or palmul. You'll need to do the math to get the colors to fade how you want. Watching your demo of what you got, it seems like you're using time or something to adjust the palette. It seems like the starting color isn't always the same. 0:04-0:05 seems like they're two solid colors.
2 Yes. PalAdd and/or PalMul should be what you're after.
3 Afterimages don't get shadows but I think I know what you mean. But if you mean the effect of the afterimage be on top of P1, that's not going to happen. You could spoof it. You'd be able to spawn a helper and set it's layer. The original sprite would be made transparent. Then the afterimage would be visible and the visible sprite would be below it. This should/might/may work.
4 I dont think there's a way to set a starting distance for the afterimage. timegap and framegap might be the values you want to edit to get a similar effect though.

There was/is a thread of changing the character to get different colored effects. I cant seem to find it. But it's helpful to see the code, and then see a gif of the effect it creates. Your effect is basically going from green to yellow to red to magenta. The adjustment(s) with paladd or palmul shouldn't be too complex. You'll have to do some trial and error to get it right. But it seems like you should be starting with 1 color and add a set value.
vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#6  August 15, 2022, 04:25:38 pm
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If he was to use helpers to make layers, how could he make a single frame of an already playing animation stay perfectly still?
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#7  August 15, 2022, 08:02:00 pm
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1)Should I adjust the pal value using helper?
2)Can the color change per frame for each shadow of the afterimage effect?
3)Can the shadow of the afterimage effect appear in the front of the character while the character is not moving?
4)Can the shadow of the afterimage effect appear arbitrarily away from the character?
5)Can you make the shadow of the afterimage effect appear in different colors?
If you haven't read this yet, it should help you out a bit
https://mugenguild.com/forum/msg.2166876

1 seems that you should use  paladd and/or palmul. You'll need to do the math to get the colors to fade how you want. Watching your demo of what you got, it seems like you're using time or something to adjust the palette. It seems like the starting color isn't always the same. 0:04-0:05 seems like they're two solid colors.
2 Yes. PalAdd and/or PalMul should be what you're after.
3 Afterimages don't get shadows but I think I know what you mean. But if you mean the effect of the afterimage be on top of P1, that's not going to happen. You could spoof it. You'd be able to spawn a helper and set it's layer. The original sprite would be made transparent. Then the afterimage would be visible and the visible sprite would be below it. This should/might/may work.
4 I dont think there's a way to set a starting distance for the afterimage. timegap and framegap might be the values you want to edit to get a similar effect though.

There was/is a thread of changing the character to get different colored effects. I cant seem to find it. But it's helpful to see the code, and then see a gif of the effect it creates. Your effect is basically going from green to yellow to red to magenta. The adjustment(s) with paladd or palmul shouldn't be too complex. You'll have to do some trial and error to get it right. But it seems like you should be starting with 1 color and add a set value.

Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#8  August 15, 2022, 09:40:31 pm
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If he was to use helpers to make layers, how could he make a single frame of an already playing animation stay perfectly still?
You'd set up the helper with a variable to catch what animelem is. Then just keep changing to that anim and set the elem at the same time. As for Velocity just set it to x = 0 and y = 0.
[State 0, ChangeAnim]
type = ChangeAnim
;trigger1 =
;value = 0
;elem = 1
;ignorehitpause = 1
;persistent =

@Catacomb soul: I almost missed your question. If you feel you HAVE to have the 4 afterimages spawn all at once, you'd need to either use a helper, or figure out how to use some math in the  paladd & palmul. My first thought would be to set up a time check inside the values. But Mugen might not be able to do the math inside the AfterImage. Honestly I'm so out of practice on AfterImage, the idea in my head might not even work properly.
You might be able to use a variable in the values. Make sure you use fvar. But you could spawn the fvar to be 0.0 and then after the 4 tics set the fvar to be the value you need.
But again, I'm not sure if that the afterimages on screen, but invisible, will change to visible, or the "5th" afterimage will be the first one you see.
 
vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#9  August 15, 2022, 11:45:06 pm
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If he was to use helpers to make layers, how could he make a single frame of an already playing animation stay perfectly still?
You'd set up the helper with a variable to catch what animelem is. Then just keep changing to that anim and set the elem at the same time. As for Velocity just set it to x = 0 and y = 0.
[State 0, ChangeAnim]
type = ChangeAnim
;trigger1 =
;value = 0
;elem = 1
;ignorehitpause = 1
;persistent =

@Catacomb soul: I almost missed your question. If you feel you HAVE to have the 4 afterimages spawn all at once, you'd need to either use a helper, or figure out how to use some math in the  paladd & palmul. My first thought would be to set up a time check inside the values. But Mugen might not be able to do the math inside the AfterImage. Honestly I'm so out of practice on AfterImage, the idea in my head might not even work properly.
You might be able to use a variable in the values. Make sure you use fvar. But you could spawn the fvar to be 0.0 and then after the 4 tics set the fvar to be the value you need.
But again, I'm not sure if that the afterimages on screen, but invisible, will change to visible, or the "5th" afterimage will be the first one you see.
 

I will write down what I understand so far.

1)A helper should be used to implant the afterimage of katana zero.

2)The helper follows the character but sets the color of each afterimage.

3)The opacity of the afterimage should be made transparent with frame progress or over time by calculating. (fade-out)

4)As a result of analyzing the image, magenta afterimage and green afterimage appear, and when it reaches 14 frames,
   it is converted to yellow afterimage and blue afterimage, respectively, and ends at 19 frames.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll write down what I'm confused about


1)Like the picture above,

Can I rotate the color or opacity by calculating the afterimage?
What are the conditional statements or commands that make it possible?

2)What is the significant difference between the afterimage turning from transparent to opaque, from opaque to transparent as you say, and making it transparent afterimage by giving time difference?

3)In a similar vein, I understand that the afterimage that usually follows me, each of the individuals cannot be colored, but follows in a uniform color.
I'm very confused because I've never experienced or seen if it's possible with helper. Is this really possible?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, I'll write down what I'm devising now Please review whether this is reasonable.

1) Two helpers make me follow my character.    (There are two afterimage that are activated for the first time.)


2)Assign the color of the afterimage using the afterimage command and add a functional expression to the value to rotate the color and opacity.


3)In a method of following the movement before two frames, the afterimage operation is delayed by two frames and then activated.
(Set the first frame in the same way.)


4)Use framegap and timegap to adjust the number of repetitions and set the deadline.


5)When the target action is complete, stop following the helper.




Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 12:27:06 am by Catacomb soul
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#10  August 16, 2022, 12:27:34 am
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https://mugenguild.com/forum/msg.2339575
Check that out. It should give you some insight on what you'd want to set up.
You can read up on the palfx here https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/palfx-and-allpalfx-sctrl-169974.0.html

It can be a little confusing at first. I'd say put some of the examples in your character to see what they do. Make slight changes so you can get a better understanding. Then work your way down to how you want it.

In the gif. it seems as though the shadow/clone/afterimage is one color and doesn't change colors. So I'd devise a way to do the math based off of the current tics of the animation P1 is in.

You'd probably want to set up

[State 0, PalFX]
type = PalFX

and

[State 0, Trans]
type = Trans

----
You might want to skip the afterimage for what you're really trying to accomplish. You could get close to the effect, but it wont be just like the source. If you want it as close to the source as possible, you'll need to set up the helper.
You might be able to spawn explods and use modifyexplod. But I think the animations would play. Which you don't want. I'm not sure if there's a way to lock in an explod to just 1 frame of an animation.
So you may end up having to spawn multiple helpers.

You can use PalFX to lock in on 1 color. You wont need it to pulse or anything. Then Trans will fade it out.
vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv
Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 12:33:49 am by Odb718
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#11  August 16, 2022, 12:38:59 am
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I'm not sure you can do this with Afterimages specifically. You could shortcut the effect with something like this:
Code:
[State 0, Afterimage] ;Aurora Afterimage, put your state number as needed.
type = AfterImage
trigger1 = time = 0 ; Or however you need it to activate.
time = -1 ;Infinite, specify length.
length = 20
framegap = 1
palcolor = 256
palinvertall = 1
palcontrast = 15, 55, 0 ;Red, Green, Blue
paladd = 1, 1, 1
palmul = 3.0, 1.0, 1.0
trans = add
ignorehitpause = 0

The RGB I see in Katana Zero appears to be applying over the afterimage sprite. I would take a guess and say it's an invisible overlay, or just a lovely shader. You may have better luck with Helpers, but you won't be able to specify the RGB values to a quadrant/section in engine due to it's limitations. Then again, I've managed some funky Afterimage achievements in the past few months - so you just may be able to pull it off.

 TLDR? Here's a shortcut. You'll have more control using helpers.
Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 12:43:49 am by Nocturnis
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#12  August 16, 2022, 10:00:13 am
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I'm not sure you can do this with Afterimages specifically. You could shortcut the effect with something like this:
Code:
[State 0, Afterimage] ;Aurora Afterimage, put your state number as needed.
type = AfterImage
trigger1 = time = 0 ; Or however you need it to activate.
time = -1 ;Infinite, specify length.
length = 20
framegap = 1
palcolor = 256
palinvertall = 1
palcontrast = 15, 55, 0 ;Red, Green, Blue
paladd = 1, 1, 1
palmul = 3.0, 1.0, 1.0
trans = add
ignorehitpause = 0

The RGB I see in Katana Zero appears to be applying over the afterimage sprite. I would take a guess and say it's an invisible overlay, or just a lovely shader. You may have better luck with Helpers, but you won't be able to specify the RGB values to a quadrant/section in engine due to it's limitations. Then again, I've managed some funky Afterimage achievements in the past few months - so you just may be able to pull it off.

 TLDR? Here's a shortcut. You'll have more control using helpers.

Thanks to you, the confusion stopped.

To be honest, I've never used a helper.
So I don't know how to start.
From the standpoint of beginners, advice is needed on how to take the composition.
I would appreciate it if you could give me advice.

Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
#13  August 16, 2022, 11:18:55 am
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Here's the Mugen Class on helpers >> https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/helper-sctrl-1-0-1-1b-169754.0.html
Basically, you can think of a helper as a clone. You know how you can put explods and hitdefs and afterimages and everything else into a StateDef for P1? You can do the exact same stuff with a helper. But you still have P1 doing whatever you want at the same time. It can be ANYTHING you want. Just a simple explod you need to do something a normal explod cant do. Like track down P2 and dance on their dead body at the end of the round. It could be a clone and do punches and kicks and attack P2 if you wanted.
It's just an additional StateDef you can have active at the same time. It can do whatever it wants for how long you need. Then it uses DestroySelf to disappear.

In P1's move you need the extra special thing in, you call the helper. You assign it's new StateDef. Then you make the statedef for the helper as if it's actually P1 with different sprites. And at the end of that state, or one later down the line, you use destroyself to clear it out of mugen.
You can use ChangeState inside the Helper's states. The helper can have any number of States it goes through, just like P1. But the last thing it should do is destroy itself.

For an effect like this. You may end up using a sprite for the helper like normal. Then notice it would look and work better if the first sprite was invisible. That's totally ok in a helper. You'd just make an animation that doesn't have a sprite! The helper will still work even though "it's not there"

To make things easier for testing, I personally would set up this effect to follow your normal walk or jump, or both. Then once it's ready you'd cut all the code out and put it in the State it needed to be in.
vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv
Re: I want to implant the afterimage form of katana zero into mugen.
New #14  August 17, 2022, 02:12:18 am
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll write down what I'm confused about


1)Like the picture above,

Can I rotate the color or opacity by calculating the afterimage?
What are the conditional statements or commands that make it possible?

2)What is the significant difference between the afterimage turning from transparent to opaque, from opaque to transparent as you say, and making it transparent afterimage by giving time difference?

3)In a similar vein, I understand that the afterimage that usually follows me, each of the individuals cannot be colored, but follows in a uniform color.
I'm very confused because I've never experienced or seen if it's possible with helper. Is this really possible?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In conclusion, I'll write down what I'm devising now Please review whether this is reasonable.

1) Two helpers make me follow my character.    (There are two afterimage that are activated for the first time.)

2)Assign the color of the afterimage using the afterimage command and add a functional expression to the value to rotate the color and opacity.

3)In a method of following the movement before two frames, the afterimage operation is delayed by two frames and then activated.
(Set the first frame in the same way.)

4)Use framegap and timegap to adjust the number of repetitions and set the deadline.

5)When the target action is complete, stop following the helper.

Here are my thoughts.  I think you're going about this the wrong way. If you're going to use helpers, don't make them use any afterimages. The helpers themselves are the afterimages. You need to spawn x-number of helpers to use as your images.  It'll look best if you spawn about 6-8 helpers for an animation of about 20 ticks.  This method requires NO afterimage sctrl to be used.
You can then either color each individual helper with multiple palFX's (not recommended) or use time as a variable in two palFX sctrl to control the color transition of all the helpers and get the rainbow effect. Then use a transparancy sctrl to make these helpers fade out over time.

Note: the colors from the palFX+transparancy will look different in mugen 1.0, mugen 1.1 and IkemenGo. What looks good in one version may not necessarily be in another.

You only need ONE helper state to achieve all this.

Let us know if you're interested in this method.
Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 04:32:51 am by SteelHammers