CandyliciousNekoNeko said, September 13, 2007, 02:40:34 pmAhh... I get your point. Yeah making her broken kinda makes her fucked up.fixed
Well, actually for those who tried Omni Dizzys and this Justice, Seven's edits are just for fun with coding and stuff, not really to play them sometimes, but to whatch them.And boy, what a show, I love that. But I agree if would start an edit of an existing GGX char, like Nana's Dizzy or Millia for example, would try to finish them and not go like that with projectiles, beams and helpers...But actually I guess would try that for fun later maybe. But since Seven already did for us, what the hell, just sit to watch and have fun.Never expected those things to be that entertaining.
supermystery said, September 13, 2007, 01:53:24 pmSol Badguy Z said, September 13, 2007, 11:57:01 amThat's not the end of it dude.... I pitted him up against master Fei Long.... He raped a gigantic hole in his ass, Perfect, after taking 20 of MFL's massive damage supers.Master Feilongs been toned down somewhat in fact hes pretty weak, those two arent really in the same league (unless you used version 0.90 - 0.95)Yeah, I have the version of him when he was first released.- Impossible to defeat. Yet justice took his sword and brought it down on MFL's ass. That was the end for sure.
Yes, long story behind that, which I don't feel like getting into right now in this particular post. Let's just put it like this - Daisuke's mind is set to fan satisfaction - if you want it enough, it becomes true (Justice was not always a girl). Next thing you know, despite story conflicts, Sin (Guilty Gear 2 Overture) will probably become adult Bridget.
Well, if that's true, it technically is still a retcon. I find it admirable that a game creator pays such attention to his fans... but I take it that you're saying you choose to consciously ignore this? I'm sort of curious, so would you mind humoring me, and sharing your reasons as to why?I can kind of understand that if they feel something is ruined people choose to discount its existance entirely (like how some folks choose to ignore every film in the "Alien" series following Aliens ), but it doesn't seem like it'd make much difference one way or the other if the Command Gear is male or female.Also, I was under the impression that Justice's VA is a woman.
VT08 said, September 14, 2007, 12:54:48 amWell, if that's true, it technically is still a retcon. I find it admirable that a game creator pays such attention to his fans... It's japan, they have an entirely different mindset from us westerners...Quotebut I take it that you're saying you choose to consciously ignore this?Basically. I find everything being conditional based on outside influence to be lazy, uninspired bullshit. Kinda like wrestling (good guys win all the time, badguys cheat to win), but you go into that KNOWING that the shit is fake. QuoteI'm sort of curious, so would you mind humoring me, and sharing your reasons as to why?First of all, I don't necesarily think he's male either. I think he's a android, similar in design of Tekkaman Blade, only minus the transformations. If you've seen all his pre-GGXX artworrk, not one shred of visible flesh can be seen. In fact, you can clearly see WIRES, CIRCUITS etc protruding from his "neck". The only thing that comes close to visible flesh are the eyes, but with such a minor detail, you can hardly discern anything from that. Also, sometimes the statement "he" can be refering to "it" when it comes to robots, so tis another reason you can discount the He/she arguements.QuoteI can kind of understand that if they feel something is ruined people choose to discount its existance entirely (like how some folks choose to ignore every film in the "Alien" series following Aliens ), but it doesn't seem like it'd make much difference one way or the other if the Command Gear is male or female.The only way Daisuke has ever shown his disaproval for the fan community is in his reaction to all the airheaded fangirls with their Ky x Sol bullshit, and even then, he remedied the situation by providing a distraction (and more fan bullshit) - Bridget, and Jam having a crush on Ky.QuoteAlso, I was under the impression that Justice's VA is a woman. Bart Simpson's VA is a girl. We gonna change him too?
Good points, Sol, but I don't really think of Justice as "human" so much as "humanoid".What I mean by that is that I would of course ordinarily agree that Justice is some sort of android, and hence, basically sexless. But it's more the fact that Justice "birthed" Dizzy that makes the character seem female to me (I'm definitely not of the school of thought that Justice is a Samus Aran underneath a suit of armor... In fact I don't necessarily think there's anything underneath that armor, rather that that is simply what Justice looks like.)Even if a Gear IS an artificial being, if it's capable of giving "birth" to another of its kind, and behaves similarly to a female (when it comes to reproduction), then why not refer to it as "she"? Then again, I don't know if reproduction amongst Gears requires a "male" parent. I don't believe it's ever been confirmed if Dizzy has something resembling a father.As for the VA, it's not quite the same thing... Bart might have a female voice actor, but it's not unusual for women to do the voices of male children. That's just usually how it works when it comes to voice acting. But, Justice is, after all, not a child. When I mentioned the VA, it was mostly because it would seem unusual (though not totally impossible) to have a woman play an "adult" part if that character is not somehow intended to be viewed as female.I mean, after all, even if you have a computer with a female voice (as often seems to be the case in movies), one will typically refer to it as "she" even though it is a sexless automaton. It would seem strange, in fact, if anybody refered to it as masculine instead. Besides, even if it is true that Justice was not originally intended to be female, who can say that it was intended to be male, either? *edit: Like I said before, the change to the character hasn't really caused any plotholes (to my knowledge), so what did it hurt? If anything, it gave the character an opportunity to grow and even become more interesting in some way. We know alot more about Justice than we did at the beginning of it all. I mean, seriously, what did we have before? A genderless, robotic being bent on eradicating humanity, it would seem... the motives and history behind this were more interesting than the villain itself. Justice was, essentially, a blank slate. A faceless power, a relatively undetailed entity of destruction. There was very little to make a lasting impression.Now, as a result of "outside influence" as you said, Justice is just a deeper villain than it was before.
Actually, I believe that you're wrong. Justice is a shehttp://gearlegacy.tripod.com/rtt/id28.htmlnot only that, she is Dizzy's mother.Most official writing is in Japanese, but I assure you that Justice is commonly refered to as a she. The millions of GG fan boys and girls surely wouldve corrected even Wikipedia by now.Bridget having a crush on Ky? Yikes.
VT08 said, September 14, 2007, 02:58:23 amGood points, Sol, but I don't really think of Justice as "human" so much as "humanoid".What I mean by that is that I would of course ordinarily agree that Justice is some sort of android, and hence, basically sexless. But it's more the fact that Justice "birthed" Dizzy that makes the character seem female to me (I'm definitely not of the school of thought that Justice is a Samus Aran underneath a suit of armor... In fact I don't necessarily think there's anything underneath that armor, rather that that is simply what Justice looks like.)The japanese is that explicit that justice shat out a baby dizzy? Or that Justice was the cause of Dizzy's "birth"? If so in the first case, then maybe I stand corrected, but before I even admit to that, I'm going to get to the other points.....QuoteEven if a Gear IS an artificial being, if it's capable of giving "birth" to another of its kind, and behaves similarly to a female (when it comes to reproduction), then why not refer to it as "she"? Then again, I don't know if reproduction amongst Gears requires a "male" parent. I don't believe it's ever been confirmed if Dizzy has something resembling a father.Lol, not touching this one. Speculation is are speculation.QuoteAs for the VA, it's not quite the same thing... Bart might have a female voice actor, but it's not unusual for women to do the voices of male children. That's just usually how it works when it comes to voice acting. But, Justice is, after all, not a child. When I mentioned the VA, it was mostly because it would seem unusual (though not totally impossible) to have a woman play an "adult" part if that character is not somehow intended to be viewed as female.I mean, after all, even if you have a computer with a female voice (as often seems to be the case in movies), one will typically refer to it as "she" even though it is a sexless automaton. It would seem strange, in fact, if anybody refered to it as masculine instead. Goku, if I'm correct, and ALL forms of him, in Japan, was voiced by a girl, am I correct? Besides, GG1's incarnation of Justice sounded like a complete and utter dude, despite the fact that I'm not even arguing for gender.QuoteBesides, even if it is true that Justice was not originally intended to be female, who can say that it was intended to be male, either? Again, "He" is usually used to describe a robot of that particular design, probably mostly due to the fact that it's odd in the to refer to something sentient as "it". It has nothing to do with which gender it resembles, as far as I'm concerned. It just feels like extra effort, as "she" DEFINATELY means it's female, where as in "mankind" can also mean "womankind".Quote*edit: Like I said before, the change to the character hasn't really caused any plotholes (to my knowledge), so what did it hurt? If anything, it gave the character an opportunity to grow and even become more interesting in some way. We know alot more about Justice than we did at the beginning of it all. I mean, seriously, what did we have before? A genderless, robotic being bent on eradicating humanity, it would seem... the motives and history behind this were more interesting than the villain itself. Justice was, essentially, a blank slate. A faceless power, a relatively undetailed entity of destruction. There was very little to make a lasting impression.Now, as a result of "outside influence" as you said, Justice is just a deeper villain than it was before.No, he's not. He, or It, was a command gear. It was created as a weapon to be used by humans, this was all explained in the first GG. Giving the character more air time and fleshing it out through haphazard fan-foolery doesn't make a character deep to me, on the contrary, as I've said, it seems more like lazy storytelling.Ikari said, September 14, 2007, 03:24:35 amActually, I believe that you're wrong. Justice is a shehttp://gearlegacy.tripod.com/rtt/id28.htmlnot only that, she is Dizzy's mother.Most official writing is in Japanese, but I assure you that Justice is commonly refered to as a she. The millions of GG fan boys and girls surely wouldve corrected even Wikipedia by now.They most likely "commonly refered" to Justice being female AFTER GGXX, when people started questioning said topic.QuoteBridget having a crush on Ky? Yikes.Where in the hell did you read that? Jam has a crush on Ky, Bridget was created as a distraction for fangirls to take their attention away from any possibility of a Sol x Ky relationship. And if you don't beleive me, or that his plan worked, you should notice the steep decline in Japanese Sol on Ky fanart ever since.
Sol, I'm not trying to discredit any of what you're saying. Like I said, all the points you make are actually quite valid under normal circumstances. Is it really necessary to pick apart everything I say like that, anyway? I'm well aware of Goku having a female VA in Japanese. Note that I said it would be "unusual", not that it's never happened. Women have portrayed men in films and in plays before as well, it really has no bearing on your argument there. Honestly, I wouldn't have mentioned it if the VA herself hadn't discussed Justice's gender on a drama CD. What I was saying was that they specifically chose a woman to provide Justice's voice because they wished Justice to be female. Perhaps they could have chosen a man, but really, much easier just to use an actress you're already employing, yes? She did, after all, provide the voice for one of the other characters in the game. And just because we disagree over a few points concerning what you believe to be "lazy storytelling", it ultimately has little bearing on the gender of a creature that isn't really human to begin with. Really, I just don't think you can refer to it as "he" without causing some undue confusion.Justice does not have a feminine form, but it still seems strange that you would refer to what is canonically a female character as "he", regardless of the fact that it is essentially a machine. I mean I do get what you're saying, it's much the same as refering to Godzilla as "he" despite the fact that it is, apparently an asexual creature (I don't honestly know that much about Godzilla, so please don't hang me for this... I just happen to chat with a lot of Godzilla fans). And Justice might be a weapon, but it is still a character. This isn't about being PC, Sol. "Mankind" being able to account for womankind really has nothing to do with Justice's apparent gender.Refering to Justice as "he" despite all the proof that exists in respect to its actual gender (especially when you're already aware of it) really seems more trouble than it's worth. You end up having to explain yourself, which you have of course done very well. But they ARE indeed rather explicit about Justice being Dizzy's "mother". It really is not just a matter of the fan community believing that Justice is "female", it's canon, for better or worse, and one of the Guilty Gear drama CD's goes so far as to say this.
Sometimes I need a little tap to be told when to stop... Once I get going, I don't, sorry I'm more used to harsher statements from the place I'm from, therefore picking apart everything from the seams.What I should've said, more or less, is that I call Justice "he" in utter disrespect of Daisuke himself, and his mechanisms from providing storyline. To be honest, I've been with guilty gear the first it came out 10 years ago, and the only thing that has really changed for the better is the way they "PRESENT" their story, not the storylines themselves. I mean, hey, everything being displayed in from the viewpoint of PostWar Administration Beureau was pretty clever in the XX line, but hardly anything actually new to storytelling is provided. The only difference between GG and any shonen anime is that every character adheres to some sort of anime stereotype that a person can agree with - can you see how heavy I am dude? And that's probably just enough to keep me around, but only for the game, not so much the storyline anymore.
QuoteSometimes I need a little tap to be told when to stop... Once I get going, I don't, sorryIt's no problem. I kind of have a "harsh" background myself. I still do my best to remain polite, but it can be tough sometimes. QuoteWhat I should've said, more or less, is that I call Justice "he" in utter disrespect of Daisuke himselfNow that I can easily understand.You should've just said "I'm sticking it to the man!"
