Q: What is this?A: It's yet another attempt by me to broach into the whole "full game" territory after I made, like, one character and then gave up for two years or more, and will probably just as likely to go the same way because I have the motivation of a narcoleptic slug and the attention span of a gnat on a sugar high.Q: Okay, but self-depreciation aside, what is this really?A: Capcom Heroines: Clash of Hearts is intended to be an all-female fighting game featuring some of Capcom's more prominent female characters who have appeared in fighting games or crossovers. Inspired by the likes of SNK Heroines and Super Gem Fighter Mini Mix, the intention is to strike a balance between "fun party fighter" and "actual fighting game", providing a more casual experience without pushing the die-hards away.Story"Mysterious objects known as the Hearts of Power have appeared across the world. These Hearts give great power to those who possess them, and a mad scramble ensues to collect them all. An individual calling herself the Queen of Hearts has sent a message to a group of women fighters imploring them to collect the Hearts for her, with the promise of a great miracle in return. These Heroines, motivated by visions of wealth, fame or justice, set out to gather the Hearts and divine their true origin."Q: Any ideas on gameplay?The intention is to take the base gameplay I did with my 3-button Ryu and tweak it in various ways. This means:3-Button Gameplay: Light, Medium and Heavy."Heart Button" tied to a Groove/Infinity Stone-styled "Heart System" that allows for different variations.The focus will not be on MvC-style air combos, but grounded juggles. I've seen so many MvC projects sprout up on here that it makes my head spin, and I want to do something different.Certain characters may play differently from how you may expect them to. For instance, Tron Bonne may be re-interpreted as a Zangief/Haggar-style grappler.Goofy, light-hearted storyline that has no bearing on any official canon whatsoever.Spoiler: The Hearts Mechanic (click to see content)The player selects one of a group of different "Hearts". Each Heart grants a different ability tied to the fourth button. The kind of Heart the player has selected will be visible as part of the UI.When a player is guarding, pressing the Heart Button spends meter to perform a Change of Heart, which functions as a reversal.Some Hearts carry the risk of the player suffering a Heart Break status. For instance, if the player was using the Focus Heart, and was struck by a move with Armour Break properties, they would suffer a Heart Break. This means that the Heart ability cannot be used for a duration.When the player's health is low they can initiate a Heart Surge, which functions in different ways depending on the Heart you've selected. However, once the Heart Surge is used, then the player cannot use the Heart Ability or Changes of Heart any longer.#1. Strong HeartAn aggressive style that encourages rushdown and brute force.Basic Ability: EX Moves. Allows the character to enhance any one of their special moves. Costs as much as a Super, so should not be abused.Change of Heart: Combo Breaker. A Killer Instinct-styled counterattack that puts the opponent at frame disadvantage.Heart Surge: Rage. The character loses their temper, gaining a ten-second boost in power, but cannot use EX Moves or Super Combos during this time.#2. Focused HeartBased on Street Fighter 4. A more defensive style that rewards more cautious play.Basic Ability: Focus Attack. Works very much the same as it does in SFIV, with Focus Cancels costing one segement of bar.Change of Heart: Advancing Guard.Heart Surge: Ultra Combo. Basically what it says on the tin.#3. Swift HeartBased on King of Fighters and the Time Stone from Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite. Allows the player to keep moving and evade attacks.Basic Ability: Dodge/Roll. Dodge can be followed up with a Counterattack.Change of Heart: Evasive Dash. Dash behind the foe and put yourself on a frame advantage.Heart Surge: SFA-style Custom Combo.Q: Any thoughts on the roster?A: A lot of the roster is up in the air right now, as it depends on my own skills in character creation and my knowledge of how those characters play. The intention is for a small-ish roster of around 10-12 characters, with at least one guest character. Further characters may be included as extra content further down the line. I'm willing to take ideas for characters, but they'll depend on if they have the kind of sprites I want and wherever they have up-to-date voices.Confirmed RosterChun-Li (Street Fighter)Saki Omokane (Quiz Nanairo Dreams)Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)Roll (Mega Man)Tron Bonne (Mega Man Legends)Felicia or Hsein-Ko (Darkstalkers)Amaterasu (Okami)Mystery Guest FighterQ: What visual style are you going for?A: In the past, I would have exclusively gone for MvC or CvS-styled sprites alone because I'm that kind of person. However, I realise now that this might not always be possible and that people seem to be generally okay with it as long as there's no major clash of sprite styles. So while I'm primarily aiming for MvC-style, I'm willing to use different sprites and use scaling and palette tricks if I need to. I'll still be using shiny effects though.In terms of screenpack, I have no clue. I think the logo might give an idea of where I want to go, but I appreciate it's not much. Anyone out there who has a better idea than me can feel free to submit ideas.Q: What's the plan going forward?A: Starting from this weekend, I intend to start development on a beta of Chun-Li in the intended gameplay style. Due to my current circumstances, how long it'll take to develop her may change wildly - I'm expected to come off of furlough on the upcoming Tuesday, so that'll definitely increase development time. I'll give an update in the relevant topic/topics when neccessary.In the meantime, feel free to shoot ideas at me in here. Gameplay, characters, visual presentation, I'm pretty much an open platform right now since so much of this concept is vapor. I will be checking this topic infrequently to see what people suggest, and will reply if I think it's pertinent.Q: Anything else?A: I'm considering using that new MugenHook tool to do some fancy effects for the screenpack, like animated portraits and unique selection announcements. But as I don't know shit about building screenpacks, that will obviously come much, much later in development or be handled by somebody who knows what the fuck they're doing.And that's about it. Feel free to post thoughts/feelings/ideas/criticism here, and I'll try to get back to you on all of it when I can. [/list]
Retro Respecter said, April 17, 2020, 04:41:53 pmIf you're looking for Darkstalkers representation, try Lilith, B.B. Hood, or Felicia.I was considering Hsein-Ko, actually, just to mix it up. She doesn't get as much attention as Morrigan or Felicia, I feel.
Apologies for the double-post, but I feel like at this point that I ought to elaborate on some of the concepts that I have for the actual gameplay. This is just so people get an idea of where I might want to go with this.Idea 1#: GemsBasically a very similar set-up to Pocket Fighter/Big Bang Beat. Hitting opponents causes coloured gems to fly out, which you then pick up. Instead of the traditional super bar, you have three smaller bars that correspond to each colour of gem and fill up as you collect them. Each bar can store up to three "charges", and you can perform the following actions based on each charge:1 Charge: EX version of an existing move.2 Charges: Level 1 Super Move3 Charges: Lavel 2 Super MoveHaving all three filled up to max might open up ideas for more cool gameplay techniques.2#: Grooves/Infinity Stones/V-Trigger fusionNot literally those, but a mishmash of those concepts. Let us assume for the moment that we're going by standard Capcom-style meter rules, instead of what I just described.Instead of the fourth button being a universal mechanic (see below), the player would select one of a group of different "grooves" that grant a unique ability to the fighter. Pressing the fourth button would let them use that ability, with the effects that come with it. In addition, the groove you pick would come with a unique defensive option that would cost at least one segment of meter to perform, which you'd do by pressing the button either when being hit or when blocking. The "groove" could also give you a unique ability to perform in certain conditions, such as a "Rage" mode or a desperation super when health is low.3#: The Fourth ButtonThis is the one that's stumped me. I genuinely don't know what to do here, and I'm always somewhat conscious that whichever one I pick will massively affect the way the game plays. The ideas I've had here are:Unique, character-specific ability a la Injustice/Blazbue/Every other concept I've ever had."Launcher" button that allows for juggles, wall-bounces, ground bounces etc.Guard Break, Easy Overhead or some other minor gimmick.So basically I'm just spitting into the wind here. Let me know if any of these sound cool or not. I'm also working on a concept for the lifebars, whch you may or may not see sometime this weekend.
The unique character specific ability would be great, and you can find a way to work in the respective source game systems if needed with the 4th button. Launcher can just as easily be achieved with a normal (even a designated one like a crouch heavy), and so can UOH which were handled with two buttons like a grab in 3s. Not a fan of the gem mechanic cause I think it would create a lot of visual noise (part of the reason I like neither of the games you referenced, or coin battles in Smash). The groove idea is also nice but I think the character specific button promotes less standardization in a healthy, more interesting way.
Retro Respecter said, April 17, 2020, 11:05:47 pmThis sounds too ambitious to go well. Can these even be implemented in MugenHook?Most of these are gameplay things which can be implemented in the characters themselves. I’m mostly just going to be using MugenHook for screenpack stuff that I know it can already do.Umezono said, April 17, 2020, 11:07:13 pmThe unique character specific ability would be great, and you can find a way to work in the respective source game systems if needed with the 4th button. Launcher can just as easily be achieved with a normal (even a designated one like a crouch heavy), and so can UOH which were handled with two buttons like a grab in 3s. Not a fan of the gem mechanic cause I think it would create a lot of visual noise (part of the reason I like neither of the games you referenced, or coin battles in Smash). The groove idea is also nice but I think the character specific button promotes less standardization in a healthy, more interesting way.Thanks for the feedback, man. While I do understand where you’re coming from on this in general, I would like to promote this as less of a serious game than most other projects. That’s partly why I considered the whole gems idea, since as I said before I’m trying to hit that sweet spot between “serious fighter” and “fun party game”. I haven’t even touched on my other big idea, which was to have items in the vein if SNK Heroes! I dropped it because that would be A) a nightmare to code, and B) a blatant ripoff. Nonetheless, I’ll keep in mind what you said. The main problem is coming up with a unique mechanic for every fighter, if I go that route - I’d have to seriously sit down and think about what each character could benefit from.
Are there other characters you want to feature outside of the usual Capcom suspects; maybe from Red Earth, Megaman, Battle Circuit, Power Stone, or even unlikely characters like Princess Prin Prin from Ghost N' Goblins?With regards to the fourth button, you have to ask yourself, what is the penultimate premise of the game. If your game features tagging, you can designate that as the tag button. If the game is more beginner-friendly (ie. Super Smash Bros. controls), the fourth button could be for special moves.Another idea would be to treat the fourth button as a literal wild card. After selecting your fighter, the player will choose an ISM, and that ISM's fourth button will be the ability. For example, if you choose an ISM that lets you perform a Super Combo, that fourth button will now be used for performing Super Combos. An ISM for defense, speed, activating special abilities, healing. Again, it all depends on how you want Capcom Heroines to work.What about combos? Since you want to avoid the MvC-styled aerial raves, might I suggest The King Of Fighters method: Regular Attack > Command Attack > Special Move. Power Stone has a Punch-Kick pyramid tree system where you could make your own 4-hit combos with just those two buttons.I've sent you a PM.
I'm most likely gonna throw in a few oddballs such as Amaterasu and Rainbow Mika. Picking a character like Saki was part of that, since she only appeared in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom and didn't get her chance to shine in Marvel. Characters from things like Power Stone or just wild and out-there stuff are dependant on sprite availability and probably also voices. But if people would rather I just use classic voices for characters to avoid that discrepancy, then I can do that.-------Two things to note as of today:1) Here's a shoddy mockup of the lifebars so far. It's nowhere near done, but you can understand the kind of aesthetic I wanna go for.2) In deciding on the main "gimmick" of the game, I accidentally hit on almost every other thing. And this is probably gona dissapoint those of you who'd rather I'd keep to a more simple style of gameplay, but I at least want something unique in there.So what I'm proposing is called the "Hearts System", and it's essentially a fusion of Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite's Infinity Stones, Street Fighter V's V-Skills/V-Reversals and Street Fighter X Tekken's Pandora. So yes, I'm going for the "grooves" option, but I'll be basing it more on those systems I just mentioned. Allow me to break this down:The player selects one of a group of different "Hearts". Each Heart grants a different ability tied to the fourth button, such as a Focus Attack, a Guard Break, a KoF-style dodge etc. The kind of Heart the player has selected will be visible as part of the UI.When a player is guarding, pressing the Heart Button spends meter to perform a Change of Heart, which functions as a reversal. This manouevre enables the defending player to retaliate in different ways, such as an Advancing Guard, a Zero Counter, a SGS-style warp behind the opponent etc.Some Hearts carry the risk of the player suffering a Heart Break status. For instance, if the player was using the Focus Heart, and was struck by a move with Armour Break properties, they would suffer a Heart Break. This means that the Heart ability cannot be used for a duration.When the player's health is low they can initiate a Heart Surge, which functions in different ways depending on the Heart you've selected. This may take the form of a Pandora-style damage increase, a SFA3-styled Custom Combo state, a powerful finishing attack, Super Armour and so on. However, once the Heart Surge is used, then the player cannot use the Heart Ability or Changes of Heart any longer.This has also allowed me to come up with both the new title and the premise of the game. The game is to be called Capcom Heroines: Clash of Hearts, and the premise/story is as follows:"Mysterious objects known as the Hearts of Power have appeared across the world. These Hearts give great power to those who possess them, and a mad scramble ensues to collect them all. An individual calling herself the Queen of Hearts has sent a message to a group of women fighters entreating them to collect the Hearts for her, with the promise of a great miracle in return. These Heroines, motivated by visions of wealth, fame or justice, set out to gather the Hearts and divine their true origin."Not the most unique of premises, I know, but it's something Let me know what you people think. I'll be checking in here infrequently, as usual, so any feedback would be appreciated.EDIT: Updated the OP with more details.Also, @no1wammy, I'm probably going for a more SFxTK/Darkstalkers route with combos. So you'd have a basic chain of Light > Medium > Heavy to work off, but at any point you can deviate. So the abiity to go "Normal > Command > Special" would still be there. I'd want things to feel very loose and fluid without going quite as crazy as MvC, so this would probably be the way to go. No aerial raves or crazy super cancels, but you can still experiment with it.EDIT 2: Another update to the life bars!The intention is that the "heart" shape around the power bars changes depending on what "Heart" your character is using, along with some text to accompany it. So Ryu is using the red "Power Heart", which would give him Guard Breakers, Zero Counter and the Ultra Combo, while Vegeta is using the blue "Focus Heart", which would give him a Focus Attack, Advancing Guard and Hyper Mode (Pandora).I'd like to do a heart-shaped timer thing between the bars, so I don't consider this done quite yet. That said, I'm happy with the concepts I have here, and I'm thinking of starting development on Chun-Li tomorrow. I intend for her to be based on the "Focus Heart" playstyle first, just to test what works, what doesn't and what needs balancing, and then add the ability to use other Hearts later down the line.EDIT 3: Final version of the bars!
Okay, I promise, this is the final final version of the bars.Also, I'll probably start work on Chun-Li this evening or tomorrow. I'll probably base her a lot on SeanAltly and JMorphman's versions, as well as my own tweaks and the stuff to accomodate the "Focus Heart" system. What I have in mind will be:Dashes instead of runs, because I know that not every character will have a forward run animation.Focus AttackNot sure for the defensive option. Either a simple Counter or Advancing Guard/Push Block.Either the "Rage Mode" or "Ultra Combo".Keep an eye on this topic for future development!
【ＭＦＧ】gui0007 said, April 20, 2020, 12:24:10 amThe lifebars looks amazing! Thanks, man. I based them rather heavily on CvS2's lifebars, but with my own twists, of course.Also, um... I've immediately hit a snag with the project. And that's the sprites to use for Chun-Li. This isn't a question of matching art styles, because I'm willing to bite the bullet on that. It's a matter of scale. I'd like to use the SFA ones if I can, but I'm worried that she'll look like a midget compared to certain other people in the cast, like Tron or Amaterasu, and I don't know if it'd be worth using scaling tricks to make up for that. So I'd like to get some opinions on that front.I've set up a poll to gauge what people would like. In the meantime, I'm gonna stew on the roster and what I want out of it. I've updated the preliminary roster in the OP, but keep in mind it could change at any time.
I personally prefer Chun-Li's CvS2 sprites to her SFA sprites (and subsequently voted for it), but do what you think will work better at the end of the day.
So I've decided to go with the CvS sprites, because as much as I'd like to keep a consistent style, I also don't want Chun-Li to look small compared to the rest of the cast. I did a size comparison of the CvS sprites with MvC2 Tron Bonne, and that seems to be about the right size. I also discovered that her anims in the SFA sprites are choppy as hell to the point where it put me off. So that's where we are.Poll is locked, and I'll be starting development tomorrow, for real, I swear.
Morrigan not being in a game like this is not only a commercial failure, but a fundamental mistake. Chars like Morrigan and Ryu serve as basis chars for games such as this. "Go to" or well balanced, easy to pick up and play types. They serve as the cornerstone of which the game is built upon. All of the chars you have here are specialized chars. The closest well rounded char, would be Chun-Li, though she's of course, not well rounded. I understand you might have done it for "variety" sake, but as I've explained, it's more to it than that. Chun-Li herself has appeared in many of these types of games for that same fundamental reason. She's also been in about every game that Morrigan has been in regards to crossovers, if not more. There's no way a char as good and popular as Morrigan wouldn't make the cut for a game like this commercially. Some food for thought. There's a reason why those chars don't get as much shine as Morrigan, they're honestly just not as good.
Here's the problem with this: I don't like Morrigan. And that's actually a bigger problem than it seems on it's face.I understand your point and, in a game like this, there isn't any way that Morrigan wouldn't make it in. I'm not ignorant as to what would happen in an actual commercial environment - if Capcom made this game, they'd put her in without hesitation. But I'm actually sick of seeing her in crossovers with the same moves and supers and literally nothing new going on with every iteration. And her moveset is pretty much redundant the moment you put any other Shoto character in there. If we must have a Darkstalkers representative, let's use one that hasn't seen nearly as much play but is still iconic to the series, like Felicia or Hsein-Ko.I'm also planning to use another character for the same "Shoto" role as Morrigan, so don't think I haven't considered the idea of a "basic" character to pick up and play. I'm trying to go for a variety of playstyles, which is why the characters are so varied and "specialist". And again, some characters are going to have overhauls to their move sets to fit this type of game. So they'll play differently from what you expect.Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing your opinion here. I'm more than happy to listen and take feedback/criticism into account. It's just that I have a particular vision for this game in my head and what characters should be in. And unless more than one person tells me that I'm making a mistake, or somebody gives a very valid reason for why I should change something, then I'm not likely to....having said that, you may be right on the whole "base char" idea. I may change my focus to doing that character instead of Chun-Li so that I have a template to work from, at least.
Steel Komodo said, April 22, 2020, 06:15:42 pmHere's the problem with this: I don't like Morrigan. And that's actually a bigger problem than it seems on it's face.I understand your point and, in a game like this, there isn't any way that Morrigan wouldn't make it in. I'm not ignorant as to what would happen in an actual commercial environment - if Capcom made this game, they'd put her in without hesitation. But I'm actually sick of seeing her in crossovers with the same moves and supers and literally nothing new going on with every iteration. And her moveset is pretty much redundant the moment you put any other Shoto character in there.I totally get what you mean, but if that's the case, couldn't you just alter some of the properties of her specials to make them more different from the other character/shotos, as well as making her feel different & new from the other characters? Just wondering.
Steel Komodo said, April 22, 2020, 06:15:42 pm...I'm actually sick of seeing (Morrigan) in crossovers with the same moves and supers and literally nothing new going on with every iteration.I love Morrigan, I really do. But I get what you're saying.One of the major complaints I've seen was Morrigan's design was just too perfect, Capcom wouldn't dare to touch her. Her CPS2 sprite library has been recycled time and time again - in fact, for the Capcom vs. SNK series, they simply reused her CPS2 library, whereas the rest of the roster was specifically redesigned to conform to CVS specifications.Same moves and supers, that I can agree on. When Capcom brought her in for Marvel vs. Capcom, they replaced her Finishing Shower with Soul Eraser (a beam super to make her "a part of the crowd"), and added a new Level 3 super, Eternal Slumber. In the second installment, Eternal Slumber was cut. In MVC3, her Finishing Shower was brought back; and due to Lilith not being in the series her Silhouette Blade was changed to Shadow Servant; and Darkness Illusion became a Level 3 super. It was not until Infinite where she finally had a new special move, Harmonious Spear, a move which I have mixed feelings with. I must have tried several different moves and ideas so that Morrigan would appear fresh: making Necro Desire a special move that could even be used in mid-air, turning Shell Kick into a Cannon Drill without turning Morrigan into Cammy, making better use of her Harmonious Spear... and nothing. I looked at other fighting video games like Omen Of Sorrow, even non-fighting ones like Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night where one of the bosses is a succubus. Capcom made her too perfect, from her moveset to her design, and that's the problem here. The more I tried to update Morrigan, the less she was Morrigan, if you know what I mean.
DauntlessMonk7 said, April 22, 2020, 08:56:42 pmI totally get what you mean, but if that's the case, couldn't you just alter some of the properties of her specials to make them more different from the other character/shotos, as well as making her feel different & new from the other characters? Just wondering.I could, but that wouldn't solve the problem of me having a gut dislike of Morrigan overall, never mind the problems with her moves. I totally understand what @no1wammy is saying, and I do think some people would complain if I changed her too much. But then again, I do want to put a fresh spin on the characters, so I don't really have the same aversion to it as I imagine most people would. But even if I did give her new stuff and new properties to her moves, it still wouldn't excuse the fact that it's still Morrigan, who's already had so much attention.Clearly, I haven't put as much thought into the roster as I thought I had. I need to go back and think about it some more before I even touch Fighter Factory in the slightest.
Capcom Heroines: Clash of Hearts - Brainstorming Thread (Read 82453 times)
