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gaming news that don't deserve their own thread (Read 2500351 times)

Started by Titiln, October 30, 2011, 05:13:58 pm
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Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9481  December 06, 2020, 06:47:54 pm
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Why can't Melee just die gracefully? It's 19 years old, and people refuse to let its time in the spotlight be over. There are far better fighting games that stepped down and are still universally beloved and played. I love and respect the game, but man. Let. It. Go.

Go tell South Korea they should stop playing Starcraft then.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9482  December 06, 2020, 07:05:50 pm
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Why can't Melee just die gracefully? It's 19 years old, and people refuse to let its time in the spotlight be over. There are far better fighting games that stepped down and are still universally beloved and played. I love and respect the game, but man. Let. It. Go.
Yeah, God forbid people from wanting to play a game they like competitively, right? It's totally wrong for them to continue liking a game. Fuck off with that. It's not like it's taking any game's place in Evo or anything like that, why should people stop playing it? Because Nintendo wants it? Fuck them, they're not being harmed by this tournament in any capacity regardless of whether it's modded or not, and even if they were, there is no excuse for them to censor the Splatoon tournament, are they gonna pull a Blizzard on people and try to silence anyone they disagree with? At least Blizzard's greed, despicable as it is, explains it's attempt to please their chinese overlords, Nintendo wouldn't lose money at all, so they don't even have that going for them.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9483  December 06, 2020, 07:10:26 pm
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All I can say is a LOT of people love Melee.

It's bad on Nintendo's end because this is a separate game that many of the fans have flocked to and even named teams after and then Nintendo acts like an angry parent trying to tell their kid to stop acting up, but the kid keeps on acting up.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9484  December 06, 2020, 07:11:32 pm
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I really don't know what these FreeMelee people thought was going to happen.  Regardless of anyone's personal feelings about using them, roms and emulators are illegal.  That's not exclusive to Nintendo, that's any video game.  They go around shouting "Hey everyone!  We're holding a high profile tournament using modified copies of an illegally obtained game on an illegal emulator!" and then act surprised when the company that owns the rights to the thing that they are making money off of takes legal action.

All this hand-wringing and acting the victim, playing up this narrative of the big bad greedy corporation ruthlessly persecuting an innocent community of loyal fans is a load of bollocks.  Nintendo are 100% within their rights to shut down an operation where people are making money through illegal copies of their products.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9485  December 06, 2020, 07:32:22 pm
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Go tell South Korea they should stop playing Starcraft then.

Honestly, I don't know anything of Starcraft, and I feel like some general Googling wouldn't give me the full picture. But if the situation directly parallels Melee one, I'd be inclined to agree.

Yeah, God forbid people from wanting to play a game they like competitively, right? It's totally wrong for them to continue liking a game. Fuck off with that. It's not like it's taking any game's place in Evo or anything like that, why should people stop playing it? Because Nintendo wants it? Fuck them, they're not being harmed by this tournament in any capacity regardless of whether it's modded or not, and even if they were, there is no excuse for them to censor the Splatoon tournament, are they gonna pull a Blizzard on people and try to silence anyone they disagree with? At least Blizzard's greed, despicable as it is, explains it's attempt to please their chinese overlords, Nintendo wouldn't lose money at all, so they don't even have that going for them.

I referred to the spotlight, not completely abandoning the game, hence why I said "still beloved and played". And I wasn't addressing the censorship situation as much as I was just sounding off on my opinion of Melee, it's why I didn't quote the link.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9486  December 06, 2020, 07:40:52 pm
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I really don't know what these FreeMelee people thought was going to happen.  Regardless of anyone's personal feelings about using them, roms and emulators are illegal.  That's not exclusive to Nintendo, that's any video game.  They go around shouting "Hey everyone!  We're holding a high profile tournament using modified copies of an illegally obtained game on an illegal emulator!" and then act surprised when the company that owns the rights to the thing that they are making money off of takes legal action.

All this hand-wringing and acting the victim, playing up this narrative of the big bad greedy corporation ruthlessly persecuting an innocent community of loyal fans is a load of bollocks.  Nintendo are 100% within their rights to shut down an operation where people are making money through illegal copies of their products.

Except that emulators aren't illegal though. Downloading a rom from a random site on the internet IS illegal. You can dump a copy of a game that you legitimately bought on your PC using other programs no problem. In fact the people that develop most emulators nowadays encourage this. Saying that emulators in and of itself is illegal is just being downright ignorant.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9487  December 06, 2020, 08:14:16 pm
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Emulation, not emulators then. Don’t be pedantic.  My point is that unless every single TO and participant manually copied the Melee ROM from their own personal GameCube disk, then somewhere along the line this tournament was breaking the law and nobody should have been surprised when the copyright holder took action because of that.
Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 09:25:29 pm by Person Man
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9488  December 06, 2020, 08:26:53 pm
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I'm being "pedantic" because people, for some reason, share this without even doing an single ounce of research. That's all. About the other thing, yeah, i agree. Don't know what they expected honestly.
Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 08:30:43 pm by Good_Wall533
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9489  December 06, 2020, 08:39:15 pm
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Honestly, I don't know anything of Starcraft, and I feel like some general Googling wouldn't give me the full picture. But if the situation directly parallels Melee one, I'd be inclined to agree.
It's considered a national sport.


The whole FreeMelee thing is something that's being overblown with misinformation and being twisted to make Nintendo look like the bad guys when they're simply exercising their legal rights. It's a combination of Melee entitlement and fear mongering. They say shutting down Big House's Melee tournament is the beginning of shutting down other major tournaments and the entire FGC should be concerned. Except....it doesn't concern the FGC, it only affects Melee and even then the issue is with Slippi. The Splatoon thing isn't a censoring issue, it's a reaction to slandering the very people that are sponsoring your tournament.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9490  December 06, 2020, 10:42:38 pm
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Why can't Melee just die gracefully? It's 19 years old, and people refuse to let its time in the spotlight be over. There are far better fighting games that stepped down and are still universally beloved and played. I love and respect the game, but man. Let. It. Go.

Go tell South Korea they should stop playing Starcraft then.

My bro still plays Star Craft these days and he's not quitting it anytime soon.

As for Melee, it's a classic, but overrated when it comes to online. But being axed by Nintendo was harshed.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9491  December 06, 2020, 11:17:36 pm
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Nintendo "exercising their rights" doesn't make it less of a petty dick move. Melee isn't sold anymore, nor are the consoles in which it was available, even if people were using ROMs (which is possible they weren't), Nintendo wouldn't be losing a single penny, because those products are no longer available in any official way. Nintendo actively using their resources to end a harmless tournament is the equivalent to a spoiled child not wanting another child touching a toy they never play with just because it's theirs.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9492  December 06, 2020, 11:33:52 pm
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It's not about whether or not Nintendo makes any money off of it.  If someone is using illegal copies of a copyrighted product to make money for themselves, and the copyright holder doesn't take action to prevent it, then it sets a precedent that others can do the same.  Besides, by Nintendo's own admission they reached out to the TOs and asked them to stop so that it wouldn't have to come to legal action, and they straight-up refused to do it.

This is not a case of some unfeeling corporation bullying a harmless little fan event because they're greedy and mean.  This is a case of people doing something they for a fact knew was illegal and that they knew for a fact would get them in trouble if they continued doing it, continuing to do it anyway because they felt entitled to it, and then trying to play the victim when the natural consequences of their actions caught up with them.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9493  December 06, 2020, 11:56:14 pm
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People keep talking about emulation as if its illegal or something. The legality of specific roms and isos can't be proven from the files alone. If Nintendo actually took them to court over this, they wouldn't win, and they have lost similar cases in the past. The only thing illegal is the actual distribution of the roms/isos- thats why rom warehouses took the hit, because they have actual legal consequences for doing so. So Big House could keep doing this if they wanted, and it wouldn't even be worth it to take it to court honestly. The reason they're not is because doing this would lose the last bit of support Nintendo has for this community (they helped fund Big House) and spell an almost certain death knell for the scene as an esport. That's a risk the TOs weren't willing to take, so they probably fought hard to keep it in, and just acquiesced when Nintendo threatened to throw the book at em. Who wants to go through that?

Couple things are certain to me at least. Nintendo's in the wrong for this: they don't have concrete legal grounds to shut down this event, and they stand no benefit to do this in the first place. Its just contempt for the scene, and a pay to play legal system at work here. The suits on their legal team just do this cause they're paid to. They're more far removed from any of the fans than the executives themselves.
Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 11:59:47 pm by Umezono
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9494  December 07, 2020, 12:14:52 am
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Let's remember that we're on a pandemic, and organizing a in person tournament is a risky move. So what else is the solution?
Nintendo are in their right of course, but is a pedantic move on them. Melee is not a competitor to Ultimate. One thing is not support the esports sides of their game, I get it, but other thing is shutting it down just because.
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Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9495  December 07, 2020, 12:19:02 am
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Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9496  December 07, 2020, 12:59:40 am
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Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
[Lifebar] SFZ4: http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=119782.msg1180458
[Stages] SFII remakes and SF custom: http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=138549
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9497  December 07, 2020, 01:25:04 am
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It could be as simple as not hosting tournaments, and I honestly feel as though Melee could rebound if the pandemic subsided. But the reality is the mismanagement of the pandemic in the US has made any sort of timetable on that sort of thing a pipe dream. The community is an indefinite state where they don't know when itll be safe to run major events, and so Melee at best would have to lay dormant without Slippi facilitating online play. Of course this could be solved if Nintendo a) actually cultivated and supported the esports scene (not happening) or b) rereleased the game with online (definitely not happening, and if it did, good luck with that netcode). Nintendo is what is threatening Melee's existence in the end, and I think the urgency is because players feel the BH incident is gonna open doors for Nintendo to continuously squeeze what little life the community has out.
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9498  December 07, 2020, 04:23:14 am
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Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
[Lifebar] SFZ4: http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=119782.msg1180458
[Stages] SFII remakes and SF custom: http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=138549
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9499  December 07, 2020, 04:43:49 am
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Alright, siding on the "bad guys" here, but I genuinely don't see any reason as to why Nintendo should allow an online Melee tournament at all. Some folks off-site compare the recent Marvel 3 tournament by Max to this, but thing is, as far as Capcom and Marvel are concerned, UMvC3 can be played in PCs with online, regardless of Parsec, that's a lot more legality for it than playing a game that explicitly doesn't have online services on a system it wasn't made for. And let's be honest for a second: does anyone here really believe that all the Melee pros went through the hassle of ripping GameCube disk ISOs into a PC just for the sake of keeping things legal? It's something so hard to believe that it may as well be considered nonsense. These people were most likely working with ROMs downloaded from only God knows where, and just as the organizers and suits from Nintendo wouldn't go through every single participant just to check their legality, the players themselves would've not agreed to show they're innocent either (they would've already done so to protest if that were the case).

If Capcom found out that some dude decided to organize an online Third Strike tournament through FightCade instead of using the OE or the 30th Anniversary edition, they'd take it down as well.

Personally, I don't get why people are so shocked about this. With no chances to do a normal tournament with people in a building and Gamecubes not having such a thing as online, this should've been seen coming miles away. Sad for Melee pros, but they were playing with fire in this situation.

I have quite a lot of gripes with Nintendo as far as this year is concerned: their incompetence when it came to get around the pandemic, the fact that Sakurai and his team hadn't finished talks with all third parties by the time Corona hit Japan when every other dev would've sorted that shit out before even starting their season passes, limited-time releases, their idiotic comments on Joy Con drifting (which I hope it bites them in the ass at the court), the whole "we can't use Mario characters from other games for our next new titles." It's not 2015-shitty from them, but it certainly comes close. However, this time they weren't in the wrong here.

Talking about Nintendo:

https://twitter.com/huntgbunt/status/1335762994303799308

Quote
Every day, it gets harder and harder to support Nintendo. #FreeSplatoon #FreeMelee
[image about Nintendo shutting down the selling of custom Etika's joycons]

Alright, time I ask, how legal is it to sell modified controllers? Because afaik, those are subject to the same legal issues as selling modified consoles. Nintendo would've done that regardless of what they were based on.

EDIT: Okay, looked at a video linked to in the twitter post, it's a pretty damn garbage move from Nintendo to take down distribution of controls aimed at charity and another sin going to them for what little's left of this shitty year.
Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 05:02:01 am by Nemuresu
Re: gaming news that don't deserve their own thread
#9500  December 07, 2020, 04:44:07 am
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Stupid question possibly, I'm detatched from the whole Melee crowd other than I liked Adventure Mode when it came out, the Zelda II map and Brinstar were awesome.

If part of the whole argument is the lack of proof at where the Melee files came from, why not each person in the tourney simply just bring their copy of Melee with them to show as evidence of where their files can originate from?  The whole thing is based on hypotheticals anyways, why not have more evidence on your side?  I can't possibly imagine the pro players of Smash Melee who dedicate god knows how many hours to the game don't also own their own copies as well?

The online part is really a matter of preference of morality or legality in a worldwide negative situation.  Yeah, the game didn't have it to begin with, but the addition is there to cope with a worldwide pandemic, not to alter the game any further than allow multiplayer connection beyond a single T.V. set, not set some precedent necessary going forward, though I can imagine the Melee players at home would enjoy the upgrade.  Seems ridiculously overblown an issue.  When a pro athlete footballer sprains his ankle, you work around the issue, you don't demolish the football stadium.