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Stage Creation Help (Read 21677 times)

Started by copticprincess, July 21, 2022, 02:56:58 pm
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Stage Creation Help
New #1  July 21, 2022, 02:56:58 pm
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I'm trying to work on a stage and my foreground images won't show up. I even added the code layerno = 1 and still won't show. I'm stumped.

I'm following this tut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4O7zhhFLJI

and adjusting it for mugen 1.1, but his images are showing in the forground mine don't.... Just the background image is there....

Here it is OnionSkin in FF:



Here it is in Ikemen:



I need some help...
Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 08:23:58 am by copticprincess
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#2  July 21, 2022, 04:10:10 pm
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Hello.

Maybe the problem is the position of the image on the def. file of the stage, something like this maybe is hapenning:

[BG Image-Layerno]
type  = normal
spriteno = 1111,1
layerno = 0
start = -1260,-490
delta = 0.681,0.75
mask  = 1
scalestart=0.75,0.75

Maybe you have to reduce or change that value, I hope this help you.
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#3  July 21, 2022, 04:23:02 pm
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Hi, according to the video, so the sprites will align, they have to share the same start values. If I change the background/foreground start, it will be off position. Idk why i'm having this problem.

Here's my settings:

[BG Image]
type = normal
spriteno = 2,0
start = 0,466
delta = 1,1
mask = 1

[FG Image 0]
type = normal
spriteno = 0,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1,1
mask = 1

[FG Image 1]
type = normal
spriteno = 1,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1,1
mask = 1
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#4  July 21, 2022, 04:39:21 pm
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FG?

[FG Image 0]
type = normal
spriteno = 0,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1,1
mask = 1

[FG Image 1]
type = normal
spriteno = 1,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1,1
mask = 1

Change it for "BG".
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#5  July 21, 2022, 04:53:17 pm
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    • matrerog@yahoo.com.ar
@Charles_2011 hit the nail.

Your problem is probably due to that prefix you changed. It should ALWAYS be BG for any layer.
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#6  July 21, 2022, 05:18:09 pm
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Thanks for the help! It works! I have to bother you again... I'm having problems using the Blackjack trick on the two foreground objects...

I'm following this: https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/blackjack-trick-stages--60816.0.html

But mine won't go transparent... I know i'm missing something...

Here's my settings:

[BG Image 0]
type = normal
spriteno = 0,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1,1
mask = 1
trans = none

[BG Image 0]
type = normal
spriteno = 0,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1,1
mask = 1
trans = sub

[BG Image 0]
type = normal
spriteno = 0,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1,1
mask = 1
trans = add1
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#7  July 21, 2022, 05:33:32 pm
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I´m glad that you solve the first problem. About the second issue, I suggest to keep only the last code:

[BG Image 0]
type = normal
spriteno = 0,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1,1
mask = 1
trans = add1

Erase the others.
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#8  July 21, 2022, 05:44:11 pm
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That worked. The foreground images look a bit bright since it's transparent. Anyway to darken them up slightly?

Before:



After (Edited the tent so it doesn't cover the Fountain):

Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 05:50:02 pm by copticprincess
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#9  July 21, 2022, 05:49:55 pm
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Prove to repeat the code:

[BG Image 0]
type = normal
spriteno = 0,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1,1
mask = 1
trans = add1

[BG Image 0]
type = normal
spriteno = 0,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1,1
mask = 1
trans = add1
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#10  July 21, 2022, 05:58:26 pm
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Thanks for helping. I repeated the code and I could barely see through it and it got brighter too. I wish I knew how to make it look normal until you pass through it.
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#11  July 21, 2022, 06:01:56 pm
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You can prove "trans = sub", too.
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#12  July 21, 2022, 06:05:00 pm
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Added trans = sub to repeated and got this:




Nevermind I fixed it! I added another trans = add1 and it looks better.
Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 06:09:05 pm by copticprincess
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#13  July 21, 2022, 08:23:42 pm
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    • matrerog@yahoo.com.ar
I don't know if you already managed to solve the whole issue..., but you only need two [BG ...] for each foreground to work with the BlackJack Method. For example:

Code:
[BG foreground 1]
type = normal
spriteno = 0,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 0
delta = 1.2,1
mask = 1
trans = none

[BG foreground 1 trans]
type = normal
spriteno = 0,0
start = 0,466
layerno = 1
delta = 1.2,1
mask = 1
trans = add1

You can also try increasing the delta value to accentuate the feeling of depth in the stage, as I did in the code above. Otherwise you can leave it static as you were doing before
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#14  July 21, 2022, 11:12:57 pm
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Thanks MatreroG for the tip. I edited the delta. When I used the Blackjack method like above it stayed solid for some reason. I had to use two trans = add1 and one trans = sub.

Here's what it looks like now:

Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#15  July 22, 2022, 12:04:54 am
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    • matrerog@yahoo.com.ar
Mmm, that's weird.
For the trick to work properly and even though they are foreground elements, you need to make sure that one of the layers (the solid one) to be behind the chars with the value layerno = 0 and the other in front (transparent) with the value layerno = 1
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#16  July 22, 2022, 07:10:51 am
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You were right. It works now. I wasn't changing my layerno to 0. I overlook too many tiny details. I have another issue... I feel I shouldn't create a new thread for the same stage. I'll type it here.

Does the background look a bit small to you/anyone? Kung fu man looks a tad larger than the tent. I'm not sure though. I had resizing stage problems before but I can't get that method to work on this. The stage becomes a nightmare when I scale it...
Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 03:40:36 pm by copticprincess
Re: My foreground sprites aren't showing
#17  July 22, 2022, 03:38:33 pm
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Sorry to double post but I decided to take what I learned and test it on a larger version of this stage.... I can't get rid of this black bar at the top of my stage and the sides are cut off aswell. Unlike the smaller stage which easily moved up and down, this one is a bit different. I edited the sprites in FF and problems persist. I edit the start = and the bar is there still. I edit the zoffset but that just moves kung fu man down or up and the stage doesn't move. I know it's something i'm doing wrong or missing but I don't know what. How to move the stage up?

I know i'm a newby and this stuff is simple and easy for ones who know it, but i'm trying. I'd like to contribute. ^^

Here it is:

Re: Stage Creation Help
#18  July 22, 2022, 05:04:06 pm
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Hello.

About the black bar change this:

[Camera]
   startx=0
   starty=0
   boundleft= -160
   boundright= 160
   boundhigh= -160
   boundlow=0
   verticalfollow=1
   tension=50
   floortension=150

Reduce the value in boundhigh.
Re: Stage Creation Help
#19  July 22, 2022, 05:53:18 pm
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Hi ^^
I reduced the boundhigh, but no change.

Here's my camera settings:

[Camera]
;Camera starting position: Usually 0 for both
startx = 0
starty = 0
boundleft = -150
boundright = 150
boundhigh= -22
boundlow = 0
verticalfollow = .2
floortension = 0
tension = 60
overdrawhigh = 0
overdrawlow = 0
cuthigh = 35
cutlow = 25

zoomin = .75
zoomout = .6
Re: Stage Creation Help
#20  July 23, 2022, 12:37:45 am
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I decided to use Cybaster's stage_tool to generate my base .def and .sff, then edited the .sff and added the other sprites. One uses the Blackjack trick I properly learned how to implement thanks to you two and S.O.S for sharing the trick (link above). Here's what i've got now:



Two questions... What to add to cover up the seams? & Anyway to make the ship have a bobbing motion? I feel it needs movement.
Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 12:41:37 am by copticprincess
Re: Stage Creation Help
#21  July 23, 2022, 04:05:58 am
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If that ship is a separate image, you can animate with the follow code


Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

You can made a simple boobing animation with only one sprite

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty


Read the mugen docs for more details on stage ceation:

http://www.elecbyte.com/mugendocs/bgs.html
Have a nice day!
Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 04:11:39 am by ShinZombie
Re: Stage Creation Help
#22  July 23, 2022, 08:27:02 am
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Hi Shin

Thanks for the detailed information and the link. The ship is a separate sprite and the bobbing animation works. The only problem is that i'm using the Blackjack method on it and the trans = add1 isn't moving. It looks like two ships. One is static and the other animated. I thought that it would use the same [Begin Action] as the trans = normal one, but it didn't move. I then created an action for the trans = add1 but it still didn't move. How can I get the trans = add1 to move aswell?


Edit:

Actually I just noticed the balloon doing it too and it's not using the Bj trick.... Looks like I have two balloons one static and one animated.
Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 08:52:28 am by copticprincess
Re: Stage Creation Help
#23  July 23, 2022, 08:47:12 am
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I tested, and work like this:


Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

You must create 3 animations perfectly sync  ( same number of frames, sprites, positions and time)  Then add the blackjack trick to the properties to the anim definitions.

Have a nice day!
Re: Stage Creation Help
#24  July 23, 2022, 09:04:40 am
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Hmm, mine still didn't move... Here's my settings:

[BG Ship Solid];Foreground 5
type = anim
actionno = 0
start = 0,-265
layerno = 0
delta = 1.2,1 ;1,1
mask = 1
trans = none
scalestart = 1.5,1.5

[BG Ship Trans];Foreground 5
type = anim
actionno = 1
start = 0,-265
layerno = 1
delta = 1.2,1 ;1,1
mask = 1
trans = add1
scalestart = 1.5,1.5
;---------------------------------------------
[Begin Action 0]
5,0,0,0,60
5,0,0,3,58
5,0,0,7,50
5,0,0,12,40

5,0,0,11,39
5,0,0,7,35
5,0,0,1,29

[Begin Action 1]
5,0,0,0,60
5,0,0,3,58
5,0,0,7,50
5,0,0,12,40

5,0,0,11,39
5,0,0,7,35
5,0,0,1,29
Re: Stage Creation Help
#25  July 23, 2022, 09:17:42 am
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I just copy pasted the code in one of my stages, and works fine.  Are you sure you saving the changes on the correct .def file?
Have a nice day!
Re: Stage Creation Help
#26  July 23, 2022, 09:22:13 am
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Yea, it's the right .def. The only one I have open atm.  I'm using Ikemen, maybe that's why it looks like that? The balloon is doing it too.

Edit pic below:

Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 09:28:33 am by copticprincess
Re: Stage Creation Help
#27  July 23, 2022, 09:37:49 am
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Yes, maybe is that the reason.  I'm using Mugen 1.1,  I don't know how stages works on Ikemen.
Have a nice day!
Re: Stage Creation Help
#28  July 23, 2022, 09:49:31 am
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Well at least it'll be normal in mugen 1.1. I can move on to my next dilemma... The seams. I need ideas on how to cover that up. Maybe fog at the top? Not sure about the bottom... Maybe grass or props? Idk what props though... Animated waterfall behind the balloon would look nice. Possibly clouds at the top would work...

Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 09:56:17 am by copticprincess
Re: Stage Creation Help
#29  July 23, 2022, 10:29:31 am
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Bottom: Trash cans on layerno = 1  to block that zone vision.

Top:  A ballon blocking the far away view,  or just clean that area with plain blue ( of the same tone).  Or just add a cloud, another mountain, the sun, a blurred Shao Khan castle form Mortal Kombat.   

You need to find a proper image that not clash with the rest of the stage art.

Have a nice day!
Re: Stage Creation Help
#30  July 23, 2022, 11:53:35 am
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Before beginning my search for decorating I noticed that even with editing the stage sprites, Kung fu man was still big compared to the background. I successfully increased the size of my stage going by an old thread I made and Beterhans helped me.

I have this issue where zooming causes this ugly effect. I noticed it earlier but after proper scaling of the stage it's more apparent. I don't know how to really explain it so I made a video showing this:


Re: Stage Creation Help
#31  July 24, 2022, 02:52:58 am
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    • matrerog@yahoo.com.ar
Looking back, I personally think that the best way to animate a static image is the velocity or sinusoidal movement parameters. Surely it will be something more fluid and less abrupt.

Try adding some of these lines (sinusoidal move), or both, to all those layers that you want to move a little:
Code:
sin.y = 10,90,0
sin.x = 25,200,0
You can try and play with different values ​​until you get close to the movement that you think is optimal for each element. Also take into account the following details:
- The 3 parameters are, in order of appearance, the magnitude, the time and the phase.
- "Magnitude" is the number of pixels it will go up and down (or left and right if you use sin.x).
- "time" is the number of ticks necessary to accomplish one cycle.
- "phase" should be used if you have several sinusoidal movements you want to differenciate a little. Learn some Maths to know what it is exactly.

All this and much more is very well detailed and exemplified in the Stage Tutorial made by Cybaster:
https://mugenguild.com/forum/msg.960432/topics/complete-stage-creation-tutorial-104470.0.html#msg960432
You will always be able to check there the necessary codes to complement your bgs.

Re: Stage Creation Help
#32  July 24, 2022, 03:15:17 pm
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Thank you for the info and link. Do you have an idea as to why my stage is doing that wonky zoomin/zoomout? I'm asking this question at the mugen sites i'm registered. I've been searching for hours and can't find anything... I'm a little exhausted by this problem. The only good news I have right now is i've expanded on the stage since my video, despite the zoom problem.
Re: Stage Creation Help
#33  July 24, 2022, 04:01:17 pm
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    • matrerog@yahoo.com.ar
Could you show us the complete code corresponding to the values ​​of the Camera?
Re: Stage Creation Help
#34  July 24, 2022, 04:11:40 pm
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Sure thing. Here it is:

[Camera]
startx       = 0
starty       = 0
boundleft    = -955 ;-1332
boundright    = 955 ;1332
boundhigh    = -230 ;-265
boundlow    = 1000 ;0
tension    = 200
;verticalfollow = .75
;floortension    = 400
tensionhigh      = 170
tensionlow      = 30
overdrawhigh    = 120
overdrawlow    = 120
;cuthigh    = 0
;cutlow    = 0

startzoom = 1
zoomin = .5
zoomout = .4
Re: Stage Creation Help
#35  July 24, 2022, 04:21:54 pm
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I don't make stages but have modified some of them to fit what I need and this is a little off-topic but I'm just wondering why you're using FF3 to code in the stages when FF Studio has quite a powerful stage creator mode built in. This eliminates quite a lot of trial and error in coding and placements of background elements.
Re: Stage Creation Help
#36  July 24, 2022, 04:28:12 pm
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I don't make stages but have modified some of them to fit what I need and this is a little off-topic but I'm just wondering why you're using FF3 to code in the stages when FF Studio has quite a powerful stage creator mode built in. This eliminates quite a lot of trial and error in coding and placements of background elements.

When I decided to try and make stages, all of the tutorials I watched used FF3. I followed along with them and eventually got comfortable with FF3. I didn't know of FF Studio til sorta recent.
Re: Stage Creation Help
#37  July 24, 2022, 04:35:18 pm
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The boundlow looks way off and I'm guessing combined with z-offset value is what's making that movement.  I've had it happen before.  And it was becuase of these two parameters being off.  Someone will probably give you an answer to fix it but if all else fails, I suggest it's probably best if you use studio, open your project, shift your sprites into the correct play area and use a boundlow=0. Then set z-offset to where you want within the bounds.  This will fix that problem. Though if you encounter it in the horizontal direction, set your deltas to the correct value.
Re: Stage Creation Help
#38  July 24, 2022, 04:44:26 pm
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Hmm, if it's my boundlow clashing with my zoffset then that would suck,. Editing the boundlow was how I got rid of the large black space above my stage....
Re: Stage Creation Help
#39  July 24, 2022, 04:52:05 pm
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That's most likely because your background sprites are not within the default camera area of the stage.  If you bound low is that high than your stage is way below the 0 line. If you don't have FFStudio, go download it. Open your project and go to the stage viewer. You'll see what I mean.  Your play area must be within the stage (red) box, as well as your z-offset. If it's not, then something's wrong.
Re: Stage Creation Help
#40  July 24, 2022, 05:00:45 pm
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I'll look into FF Studio and see if there's any tuts on it. Is this what you mean by below the line? In my past thread that was the problem, but I thought Ikemen would work different than mugen 1.1...

Pic Here:

Re: Stage Creation Help
#41  July 24, 2022, 05:10:22 pm
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You won't be able to tell in FF3. As I said, Studio  has a stage viewer with a red box (window) where you sprites must go.  If it falls outside that box, then zoom is going to effect it like with your one depending on how far out you are. Once you open your project and click the stage viewer button, you will see where your current sprites are relative to where they should be. All you have to do is shift you sprites up to within the box and you're set to go. This all can be done in the same window and you'll see it (the static sprites) visually without having to run mugen.exe.  The only thing you'll neeed to change in the .def file are the parameters not pertaining to the sprites like camera, stage info and such. 
Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 05:14:38 pm by SteelHammers
Re: Stage Creation Help
#42  July 24, 2022, 05:17:11 pm
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Thanks Steel (and others posting here) for taking the time out to help me with this. I'm going to get FF Studio and see what's going on.
Re: Stage Creation Help
#43  July 24, 2022, 05:59:24 pm
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Ok I already had Studio installed, I found the stage viewer under backgrounds and hit play. I only saw black with a few sprites. The interface is difficult to navigate for me and I can't find any tutorials on how to use it for stages like I could with FF3. I'm just stuck here, if I can't use FF3 to fix this.
Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 06:07:25 pm by copticprincess
Re: Stage Creation Help
#44  July 24, 2022, 06:24:29 pm
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You don't need too press play or anything atm. You just need to see if your sprites are within the camera window of the stage viewer. If your stage is not displaying correctly, open kfm' stage or one by someone else and see how it looks. Btw, should post pics to to see whats going on in the stage viewer.
Re: Stage Creation Help
#45  July 24, 2022, 06:30:48 pm
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I feel lost in FFS..... I'm not even sure that was stage viewer.

Here's a screenshot:

Re: Stage Creation Help
#46  July 24, 2022, 06:35:07 pm
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Stage viewer is that tv like button next to the animation button. 2nd one to the left of the settings button
Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 06:39:18 pm by SteelHammers
Re: Stage Creation Help
#47  July 24, 2022, 06:38:28 pm
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Oh great, my stage is huge and the red square, representing the stage I presume, is in the center of it....  How can I fit my stage in that small square? Wait do I edit my size in .def?
Re: Stage Creation Help
#48  July 24, 2022, 06:46:16 pm
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You dont want to fit your whole stage in. That area is either 640x480, 1280x720 or whatever your localcoord is. It represents the actual screen you can view. So in game, you want your stage to be alot bigger than that area so you can scroll the camera left/right or up. Meaning if you have a huge stage, its a good thing
Re: Stage Creation Help
#49  July 24, 2022, 06:50:43 pm
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That means it's correct since it's larger than the screen in FFS. Then what could be wrong in mugen? I'm confused.
Re: Stage Creation Help
#50  July 24, 2022, 06:52:56 pm
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Post a pic and ill see if there's anything wrong with yours.
Re: Stage Creation Help
#51  July 24, 2022, 06:58:07 pm
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Here's it in FFS:

Re: Stage Creation Help
#52  July 24, 2022, 07:34:14 pm
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Placement Looks fine to me except that your z-offset must also be within the screen area. They're the position of where your fighters will start and are marked with a crosshair like: "+"  if you zoom out, youll see it.
The top edge of the box (top line) should be your boundlow and starts at y=0. 

There's coordinates near the bottom left corner of the fighter factory window and will change as you move our mouse over the work area. These are important as they tell you the positions on the screen.

 I need to hop off now but i suggest you open up kfm's default stage 0-720 (im assuming you're using 1280,720 and another few just to compare.

Remember to make a back uo copy of your work first before starting anything.  FFStudio may seem hard at first but once you play with it fir a while, its easier than ff3, though do use what you're more comfortable with. Hope you'll figure it out in the meantime. Do ask anyone for help and ill check by the next time im here

Re: Stage Creation Help
#53  July 24, 2022, 08:33:28 pm
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Placement Looks fine to me except that your z-offset must also be within the screen area. They're the position of where your fighters will start and are marked with a crosshair like: "+"  if you zoom out, youll see it.
The top edge of the box (top line) should be your boundlow and starts at y=0. 

There's coordinates near the bottom left corner of the fighter factory window and will change as you move our mouse over the work area. These are important as they tell you the positions on the screen.

 I need to hop off now but i suggest you open up kfm's default stage 0-720 (im assuming you're using 1280,720 and another few just to compare.

Remember to make a back uo copy of your work first before starting anything.  FFStudio may seem hard at first but once you play with it fir a while, its easier than ff3, though do use what you're more comfortable with. Hope you'll figure it out in the meantime. Do ask anyone for help and ill check by the next time im here



I'm going to keep at it and when I fix it, i'll post screenshots. Ty again and take care
Re: Stage Creation Help
New #54  July 25, 2022, 01:09:03 pm
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I fixed the stage issue. Steel you were right, my zoffset was one of the problems. The other problem was my localcoord, which was wrong. Also my issue with tint/hue solved. I got the tint working, thanks to Vogel.
Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 12:56:38 am by copticprincess