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2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th) (Read 442900 times)

Started by PotS, January 15, 2022, 10:28:50 AM
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Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#101  January 22, 2022, 05:37:44 PM
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Feedback and Suggestions for Shin Akuma/Gouki:
- I find it kinda odd that he doesn't have the new Hadouken FX from Ryu.
- I think Hyakki Gou Jin should have faster recovery since it's quite difficult to follow-up afterwards.
- Might I suggest the Messatsu Gou Hadou Agyo from MvC3 to accompany Tenma Renzoku Zankuu which has the same function (A crap ton of Hadous).
EDIT: I just remembered that the height requirement for air specials is too high, so you can't do any from Low Jumps and such.

I don't have much for Lei-Lei but gaining 1/2 Power EX's and Power Charge is hella funny since the likes of Jmorphman's Demitri and Jesuszilla's Felicia followed the roots of the original version.

I might also suggest adding Back Rolls since it really goes against my muscle memory after playing various later characters in this style.

Can I also ask any questions about characters that haven't been updated/released yet?
Last Edit: January 22, 2022, 07:19:59 PM by RagingRowen
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#102  January 22, 2022, 07:20:55 PM
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Lei-Lei plays nice. Here's two of my favorite things to do with her. Sadly she can't do it from jump ins.

https://streamable.com/81cscp
https://streamable.com/y69pui

A couple things about her tho:

* Tenraiha was/is Lei-Lei's best move so it becoming a lv.3 really hurt her, but what hurt the most was the lv.3 super pause. Because of the super pause, Tenraiha lost any use as a mixup tool because you can block after the superpause ends. I'd make it so you can only block before super pause so she gets her mixup back.
* Is it intentional for light gong to be +7 on hit/block but for EX Gong to be -4? In source its the other way around.
* Any chances of making regular blades super cancelable? :x not even sure if max blades would connect but if they could it would be very nice.
* Any reasons she can't do command grab while dashing?
* I'm not sure if it's the pushback on the normals, the range of the throw or its how var(38) behaves (maybe a bit of the three), but I can't do tick throws at all with her command grab.

My experience with Lei-Lei doesn't come from playing her, it mostly comes from playing against her (I only play Sasquatch, Viktor and Jedah); but all in all her rushdown feels different, weaker.
I haven't tested her dark force at all so I might pop up with more feedback later.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#103  January 22, 2022, 07:44:42 PM
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Lei Lei best Darkstalkers girl (besides Morrigan and Lilith)
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#104  January 22, 2022, 08:14:08 PM
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Lol! Somehow I got credit for DW's feedback. Coincidently I saw those exact same things but thought it was my lack of skills that where the cause.
Messed up the quotes. I'm out of practice, heh.

Ah, seems pretty cool, I’ll check them out later.
Any plans for a normal/non-Shin Gouki mode down the line?
I don't know. I feel like a normal mode would be just taking things away from him. Plus many people have done that already.

Feedback and Suggestions for Shin Akuma/Gouki:
- I find it kinda odd that he doesn't have the new Hadouken FX from Ryu.
Two reasons I guess. They were made specifically for (another) Ryu, and Shin Gouki already has unique fireball animations.

- I think Hyakki Gou Jin should have faster recovery since it's quite difficult to follow-up afterwards.
You are right. Will change it.

- Might I suggest the Messatsu Gou Hadou Agyo from MvC3 to accompany Tenma Renzoku Zankuu which has the same function (A crap ton of Hadous).
That is 100% something I would have added if MvC3 existed at the time. I'll think about it.

EDIT: I just remembered that the height requirement for air specials is too high, so you can't do any from Low Jumps and such.
It's because special moves are forbidden during low jumps.

I don't have much for Lei-Lei but gaining 1/2 Power EX's and Power Charge is hella funny since the likes of Jmorphman's Demitri and Jesuszilla's Felicia followed the roots of the original version.
I guess they followed the wrong character then because she was kind of bad. Not that doing it one way or the other is better.

I might also suggest adding Back Rolls since it really goes against my muscle memory after playing various later characters in this style.
Back rolls are for turtles. ;P

Can I also ask any questions about characters that haven't been updated/released yet?
I guess that's relevant since they will all be updated in this thread.

* Tenraiha was/is Lei-Lei's best move so it becoming a lv.3 really hurt her, but what hurt the most was the lv.3 super pause. Because of the super pause, Tenraiha lost any use as a mixup tool because you can block after the superpause ends. I'd make it so you can only block before super pause so she gets her mixup back.
On one hand that's a good idea, on the other the move is already very strong. Will think about it.

* Is it intentional for light gong to be +7 on hit/block but for EX Gong to be -4? In source its the other way around.
Nope. That needs to be fixed.

* Any chances of making regular blades super cancelable? :x not even sure if max blades would connect but if they could it would be very nice.
I just thought making a half screen poke cancellable would be odd.

* Any reasons she can't do command grab while dashing?
Must be a change from all those years back because I forgot why I did it. I just checked and it's forbidden in Hunter but allowed in Saviour. Will probably change it.

* I'm not sure if it's the pushback on the normals, the range of the throw or its how var(38) behaves (maybe a bit of the three), but I can't do tick throws at all with her command grab.
Might be a bad trigger for the Hitdef throwing off your timing. Will fix it.

My experience with Lei-Lei doesn't come from playing her, it mostly comes from playing against her (I only play Sasquatch, Viktor and Jedah); but all in all her rushdown feels different, weaker.
Could it be that you play in the community standard of Turbo 3 (I think)? I normally reference Turbo 1 because 3 makes my head spin.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#105  January 22, 2022, 08:57:37 PM
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Can I also ask any questions about characters that haven't been updated/released yet?
I guess that's relevant since they will all be updated in this thread.

That's good. I ask that because I was wondering if Dan's sprites will be different by any chance, as in will they still be the upscaled sprites you had or will be at a normal size. I always though it was weird.

EDIT: Found a Lei-Lei bug where she falls infinitely if she misses her Zampa. https://streamable.com/slk4xe
Last Edit: January 22, 2022, 10:25:44 PM by RagingRowen
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#106  January 22, 2022, 10:59:36 PM
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Ah, seems pretty cool, I’ll check them out later.
Any plans for a normal/non-Shin Gouki mode down the line?
I don't know. I feel like a normal mode would be just taking things away from him. Plus many people have done that already.
Ah, ok. I know a lot of other people did that, I was just wondering if you had any interest in doing your own take on a normal Akuma mode.
Can I also ask any questions about characters that haven't been updated/released yet?
I guess that's relevant since they will all be updated in this thread.
Ah, alright then. If it's alright for me to ask, in a similar vein to the Gouki thing earlier, do you have any interest/plans for giving Dictator/Bison/Vega or Geese any extra modes or new moves, like with Ryu? Something I've been thinking about since the Ryu and Guy update came out.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#107  January 23, 2022, 01:54:20 AM
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After playing the characters for a few days, I don't think I have any issues with the gameplay aside from a few minor bugs. But the problem I have is that the aesthetics feels rather inconsistent with each other and makes them look like they're missing stuff. It's not just the hitsparks, but the shockwaves and landing effects as well. I also noticed that certain effects and sounds don't play exactly the same as the others. If you want me to point out which sounds are missing on each character, I can. This is how I usually do feedback for others of the same style, not just finding bugs.

It was half laziness to recode the sparks, half trying something different. They only replace the low-res CvS2 sparks the old characters had. The "newer" characters still have the hi-res sparks.
Sorry to bring this up again. But now that you said that you don't feel like recoding the hitsparks, why not use these?: https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/accurate-pots-style-fightfx-default-mugen-186537.0.html

Right now, the lo-res ones don't feel consistent with the other hi-res effects. It still reminds me of the Winmugen days.
I will still do detail and aesthetic feedback for the rest.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#108  January 23, 2022, 12:57:58 PM
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It only took give or take a decade, but Lei-Lei finally has her dark force. Sweet!

I wasn't around the last time you were active, but I'd still like to add to the chorus of voices welcoming you back

Anyway, I don't think anyone's caught this yet, and I don't know if it's intentional, but her Houten air throw isn't bi-directional. I was also gonna point out the zampa bug but RagingRowen already made note of that
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#109  January 23, 2022, 04:59:48 PM
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May I suggest a change for Hsien-Ko? Whenever she uses a super, her sprites get that rainbowy flashing that characters used to do in Darkstalkers. I think that should be removed, because of your more CvS inspired gameplay, not even your Morrigan has that, so it looks out of place with Hsien-Ko.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#110  January 23, 2022, 10:47:16 PM
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May I suggest a change for Hsien-Ko? Whenever she uses a super, her sprites get that rainbowy flashing that characters used to do in Darkstalkers. I think that should be removed, because of your more CvS inspired gameplay, not even your Morrigan has that, so it looks out of place with Hsien-Ko.

Because Morrigan was in CvS, her gameplay is different. Hsien-Ko/Lei-Lei was not.

DW

Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#111  January 24, 2022, 01:07:55 AM
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He's suggesting that Lei-Lei follow suit as with Morrigan. We know she wasn't in it, though if she were, she would have been handled like Morrigan, and that's what Macaulyn is saying.



Personally, in terms of aesthetics I don't care. Though mechanics I do feel they should share mostly consistence. Like Guy not having a stationary dodge always felt odd, as the rest of your chars did. I suppose Lei-Lei is sort of a special case, though it's just a suggestion. I don't back roll often, if at all, so I agree with you there. The only reason I added it myself was due to consistency with mechanics.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#112  January 24, 2022, 06:27:35 AM
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OMG! Welcome Back POTS!

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Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#113  January 24, 2022, 10:42:53 AM
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That's good. I ask that because I was wondering if Dan's sprites will be different by any chance, as in will they still be the upscaled sprites you had or will be at a normal size. I always though it was weird.
It's still the upscaled sprites. They were what was available at the time and changing them now would mean remaking the air file, the sprite edits, etc, and I don't have time for that. Curiously I did rip them later in SFA scale but never did anything with the sprites.

EDIT: Found a Lei-Lei bug where she falls infinitely if she misses her Zampa. https://streamable.com/slk4xe
It's a high risk maneuver. Hehe, I'll fix that. Good thing I left a worst case scenario in the code or that alone would break the character.

Ah, alright then. If it's alright for me to ask, in a similar vein to the Gouki thing earlier, do you have any interest/plans for giving Dictator/Bison/Vega or Geese any extra modes or new moves, like with Ryu? Something I've been thinking about since the Ryu and Guy update came out.
On the surface Geese has changed very little since I think he was already my best character. Dictator will gain a couple new toys. No new modes however.

After playing the characters for a few days, I don't think I have any issues with the gameplay aside from a few minor bugs. But the problem I have is that the aesthetics feels rather inconsistent with each other and makes them look like they're missing stuff. It's not just the hitsparks, but the shockwaves and landing effects as well. I also noticed that certain effects and sounds don't play exactly the same as the others. If you want me to point out which sounds are missing on each character, I can. This is how I usually do feedback for others of the same style, not just finding bugs.
Sorry, man. I don't mean to be an asshole to someone coming into my thread trying to help, but the irony here is too damn funny. You want to help me copy myself?

I may change more effects before I'm done but it's not a priority. I changed the ones that I did because I wanted them to have more of what I did myself and less of what was ripped from some game (or just ugly). And I guess you'd have to go through the trouble of creating a hitspark code to be able to appreciate the simplicity of using normal sparks every now and then. It's too bad Mugen 1.1 still has issues because it had the best of both worlds when it comes to sparks (hi-res without coding).

Anyway, I don't think anyone's caught this yet, and I don't know if it's intentional, but her Houten air throw isn't bi-directional. I was also gonna point out the zampa bug but RagingRowen already made note of that
Thanks. I'll look into it.

May I suggest a change for Hsien-Ko? Whenever she uses a super, her sprites get that rainbowy flashing that characters used to do in Darkstalkers. I think that should be removed, because of your more CvS inspired gameplay, not even your Morrigan has that, so it looks out of place with Hsien-Ko.
I tried giving her the afterimages instead, but because all her supers are stationary you couldn't even see them, which was confusing. So I left the nod to Darkstalkers.

Personally, in terms of aesthetics I don't care. Though mechanics I do feel they should share mostly consistence. Like Guy not having a stationary dodge always felt odd, as the rest of your chars did. I suppose Lei-Lei is sort of a special case, though it's just a suggestion. I don't back roll often, if at all, so I agree with you there. The only reason I added it myself was due to consistency with mechanics.
Don't take this personally because it's not, and from what I've seen you're one of the few people to take my style and give it a new fork, but it seems like consistency is the biggest meme in the community now. A few years back I'd have made a Consistent Akuma.

Guy makes more sense in context. I wasn't trying to create a style or anything, and if I wanted to add a dodge I'd have to sprite it myself, so it sometimes made it in and sometimes didn't. Karin also only has a roll, so you can see which was my favourite mechanic in that department. I removed Lei-Lei's dodge this time because I don't care enough about that mechanic and would need to make a new animation for it after making Ankihou chargeable.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#114  January 24, 2022, 11:34:09 AM
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ZolidSone didn't try to be rude, because if you don't know him, he here on the Forum is known for giving more detailed feedback in order to really help creators with their chars. He just made a suggestion to improve the aesthetics of the sparks, that's all.

Currently, in the community, players have been looking for more standardization within the chars so that they can make their own complete games. I'm one of those, and when I don't find consistency within a style, be it POTS or any other, I don't use it, unfortunately. It's not a "meme", just a change of preference that was built over time, as Mugen has evolved a lot, and with the arrival of Ikemen the need for standardization has become stronger.

Divinewolf also didn't speak ill, as he himself within his style has a very solid material, so when he and others see things that are outside a standard of what many are used to, it is normal for them to comment something.

Many idolize his style for everything he represents within the community. The suggestions are just constructive to see something more solid, like a system of some complete game, like SF, KOF or MK. Not that it isn't, your material is great, but if you don't care about something like that, do it your way, after all, everyone is free to create however they want and everyone respects that.

Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#115  January 24, 2022, 11:54:45 AM
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ZolidSone didn't try to be rude
[...]
Divinewolf also didn't speak ill,
I didn't interpret it that way either. It's very hard to speak openly on the internet without sounding angry.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#116  January 24, 2022, 12:09:53 PM
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You didn't sound angry, you prefaced both of your responses with:
(...) Sorry, man. I don't mean to be an asshole (...)
(...)
Don't take this personally because it's not (...)
And just stated that it wasn't your preference.

It's probably on Akito having a hard time with English.

It's not a "meme", just a change of preference that was built over time, as Mugen has evolved a lot, and with the arrival of Ikemen the need for standardization has become stronger.
I honestly see no correlation between the arrival of Ikemen and the need for standardization. There's not really a "need" for anything in this community (the only exception might be the inevitable release of Jmorphman's Zangief). It's all for the sake of having fun.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#117  January 24, 2022, 12:33:57 PM
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The problem wasn't the English itself, just a misinterpretation when he quoted about copying himself, that's all.

And in fact it is not a necessity, although there are many people nowadays who want to have a more personalized Mugen, but this is a personal matter for each one.

But regardless of any opinion, fun is undoubtedly the most important.
Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 12:38:05 PM by Akito
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#118  January 24, 2022, 06:14:35 PM
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There's not really a "need" for anything in this community (the only exception might be the inevitable release of Jmorphman's Zangief).

Correct.

-On Lei-lei, when you attempt a Zamba and the opponent gets up before she connects, she disappears her shadow rises up and she reappears near the opponent. Great job overall.

Do your best to become stronger. Become stronger, so you can do your best.

Mugen is a way for me to remain nostalgic with all of the dream matches I cooked up as a kid. It's also what I call a "Digital Action Figure Collection."
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Vegaz_Parrelli...also known as The Lord of the Rings.
[/quote said:
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#119  January 24, 2022, 06:26:48 PM
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I tried giving her the afterimages instead, but because all her supers are stationary you couldn't even see them, which was confusing. So I left the nod to Darkstalkers.
Thats a shame, personally I'd still rather not have the colored stuff, but its your char, so I won't object to it. Specially because her gameplay feels a lot better and I can't wait to see a Morrigan update after so many years.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
#120  January 24, 2022, 06:28:27 PM
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Man... it's so nice to see you still rockin to this day, mah bro! :c00l:


Since you mentioned plans to update more chars down the line, I got a question:

Would you consider implementing the extended color separation, that were made a while ago for some of your chars?




If you like the concept but don't feel like diggin in too much for one more aesthetic feature, I can gladly help you in this speciffic regard - adapting the previous palettes, re-aligning sprites if needed, etc. :)