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2022 Character Updates (Read 634557 times)

Started by PotS, January 15, 2022, 10:28:50 AM
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Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#421  June 27, 2022, 12:51:51 AM
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EDIT: HOLY SHIT I JUST NOTICED YOU ADDED THE SHORTCUTS let's say Geese's dash grab thing on the legs, sorry im horrible with names.
Now I can do it with fwd,dwn,back.

Awesome.
Not sure what's funnier, "dash grab thing on the legs" or the fact I know what you mean. ;P
Yeah I added them back.

My explanations are on point :D :D :D

Might as well ask you about this, I find it super cool.

I just noticed this.

Man, E.Ryu is fun.

If I don't do the super tatsu, I can hit him 3 times with a fierce dragon punch if my timing is on point.

Edit: a daaang it


Wait instead of using the super tatsu, I'll try the other level 1's

The reason im posting it is because its super cool and to basically ask if this was intended.
Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 01:15:49 AM by PeXXeR
Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#422  June 27, 2022, 03:27:08 AM
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Since your characters is about finished, I think it's about time to post this overdue feedback that I have for a few months and I don't want to keep the notepad of it on my desktop anymore:

General:
-The new naming scheme of the character folders feels much more disorganized (Although minor, I find it questionable why was it typed like this rather than using the old format where it was nice and tidy).
-Guy, Sakura and Shin Gouki's big portraits were changed (Still minor, but the new ones either don't match their default palettes and/or improperly scaled).
-Certain characters like Lei-Lei, Guy and Karin can still only forward/backwards dodge.
-Karin and Nakoruru have different custom combo animations than the others.
-All characters use different landing sound effects and are inconsistent with each other.
-There is no alt cns for CPS2 scaling for those with an 0.833 xscale.
-The characters that had CvS2 hitsparks previously still uses those sounds instead of the new ones.
-Their super finish animations are not animated the same way as the ones added later on back then were left as is.
-All characters immediately stop running if the opponent jumps over or dodges through them instead of you choosing to (The CONFIG.txt should have an option to let them continue running as it's a good method that pull them or viewing stages with longer bounds).
-Every time a opponent get hits with a special or super, another fixed hitspark always appears right behind them if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 1 and no way to get rid of it (I find this annoying as certain attacks can make it feel misaligned).

Cammy:
-The dash sound on Sniping Heel plays twice when she starts running (Which makes it sound louder).

E. Honda:
-Depending on opponent's hitbox, he can jump over the opponent during MAX Fuji Oroshi and cause the third hit not to connect (It misses when it's used on Karin or Nakoruru).

Guy:
-The sliding dust on his run stop animation is the not same position as Hayagake's one.
-The sliding dust sound effect on Hayagake's run stop is not the same as his running animation.
-There is no swing sound when Bushin Musou Renge misses.

Karin:
-Homura-geri has no hitsparks if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 0.

Nash (Although it's mostly regarding Shadow instead):
-I personally think the SFA2 style normals should be for Shadow instead (The old animations were accurate to SFA3, now it's more kin to MSHvsSF which fits Shadow more).
-Flying Buster Drop doesn't have a landing effect when he touches the ground.
-Level 2 Crossfire Blitz doesn't have a landing effect when it misses or fails to connect like his forward dash.
-Sonic Break causes a no helper 3000 debug error when the opponent is defeated with it.
-He doesn't have a standalone def file for Shadow.
-All of Shadow's specials, throws and supers are lacking voice clips (Even though he doesn't speak, he still grunts during them).
-Shadow's eye gleam effect is layered incorrectly.
-The eye gleam doesn't play before the superpause (Letting it play during it is inaccurate to MSHvsSF and doesn't stand out to Nash).
-Shadow's Psycho Power flames are technically supposed to be blue, not purple.
-Shadow's Sonic Boom has no flames when it hits the opponent and just feel like a recolor of Nash's Sonic Boom.
-Shadow's eye gleam is misaligned during the startup of Final Mission.
-Final Mission is missing a swing sound when he punches upward and an eye gleam effect at the end of the animation when it's successful.
-Shadow should have his own dedicated super texts with the move names from MSHvsSF and not from Nash since they are technically different.
-Shadow doesn't "explode" if he lost 2 rounds.

Nakoruru:
-She is the only one who have her hitsparks unchanged.
-Standing MK, close standing HK and Apefuchi Kamui Rimse is missing a landing effect when she touches the ground.
-The super spark on Shichikapu Kamui Irushika is misaligned if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 0.

Lei-Lei:
-Each step from her running animation doesn't have a landing effect.
-PP and KK versions of Hourei is excessive since they're both the same throw with a different command.
-Houtengeki and Spirit Roller doesn't have a swing sound when she misses her grab animation.
-All objects on Ankihou disappear by a frame instead of fade when they touch the ground like the pins in Spirit Roller.
-The landing effect on the Spike Balls on Tenraiha are little too high and makes them look like their floating.
-All versions of Senpuubu have no hitsparks or guard sparks when it makes contact if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 0.

Ryu:
-His super text has a typo it's missing a extra u on Shinkuu and Hadouken.

Sakura:
-Her super text has a typo it's missing a u on Shinkuu and Hadouken.
-She doesn't have a standalone def file for Dark mode.
-The hitspark on the last hit of Sakura Jime is misaligned if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 0.
-Mode Change does not change her palette when switching.
-It would be nice to have the option to perform Nekketsu Hadouken in a Tengyou angle.

Shin Gouki:
-His super text has a typo it's missing a extra u on Gou and Hadou.

Pocket Shin Gouki:
-He is using special guard sparks for his normals.
-The opponent automatically air recovers from Messatsu Gou Hadou, Tenma Gou Zankuu, Messatsu Gou Shoryuu and Messatsu Gou Senpuu (Messatsu Gou Rasen is the only level 1 super that does not do that).

Vega:
-There is no jump sound effect when he leaps from Head Press when it connects.
-The hitspark on the 7th hit of Nightmare Booster is misaligned if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 0.
-There is no landing effect when he touches the ground after the end of Nightmare Booster.

Yuri:
-She doesn't have sliding dust on the run stop animation.
-She is missing landing dust and sound when she touches the ground from Silent Nage.
-The swing sound on Yuri Chou Upper plays after it hits the opponent.
-When the opponent hits the ground from using Raioushou, a strong ground shockwave from the fightfx appears instead of her own and is layered incorrectly.
-She uses a different custom combo sound effect.

Honestly, I think the characters needs more than just bug fixing. This is what I meant about inconsistency back then as some of them don't match up with one another (Pocket Shin Gouki is the only exception as his style is different from the others). The problem is that I just don't understand why you left certain parts of the original versions as is on the 2022 updates instead of keeping the consistency the same. This is why I decided not to come back to the topic until a few months later until everyone is out first and see if any changes happen. Even if I see nothing wrong with a specific character, the general census still applies with them. Whether you choose to follow this or not, I'll leave that up to you.
I will still do detail and aesthetic feedback for the rest.
Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 02:06:42 PM by ZolidSone
Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#423  June 27, 2022, 07:13:42 PM
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Might as well ask you about this, I find it super cool.
He's had that for most of his life, hehe. He got it from Ryu's Shin Shoryuken, who in turn got it from SF3.

Man, E.Ryu is fun.
Thanks. I tried to make everyone more fun and it worked out particularly well for him.

Since your characters is about finished, I think it's about time to post this overdue feedback that I have for a few months and I don't want to keep the notepad of it on my desktop anymore:
Thanks a lot. I've just started going through your feedback but I think I can already reply to most if not all of it.

I'm trying to fix both Mugen and Ikemen versions, but I apologize in advance if some of these changes only make it to the Ikemen versions.

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General:
-The new naming scheme of the character folders feels much more disorganized (Although minor, I find it questionable why was it typed like this rather than using the old format where it was nice and tidy).
This is indeed nitpicking but there are two good reasons why I did it:
- When I download a character named "Ryu", I have to rename the folder and def file to avoid overwriting the other "Ryu" in there, so I'm just saving people the trouble;
- It's a lot easier to work on several chars at a time when you can tell what a file is by its name alone, so I added a prefix to everything according to which char it belongs to.

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-Guy, Sakura and Shin Gouki's big portraits were changed (Still minor, but the new ones either don't match their default palettes and/or improperly scaled).
By palette do you mean Shin Gouki? He had the same problem in Capcom Fighting Jam, where the portrait came from, but I'll fix it.
As for the scaling, it's more like people have grown used to seeing the stretched sprites. They are rescaled to the proper aspect ratio.

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-Certain characters like Lei-Lei, Guy and Karin can still only forward/backwards dodge.
I removed Lei-Lei's neutral dodge because it looked a lot like her fireball (since it's reused from there). But sidestepping is not a mechanic I care very much about so most of the time I only added it because the sprites were there.

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-All characters use different landing sound effects and are inconsistent with each other.
This is intentional. Characters wearing shoes have a shoe sound, and barefeet characters have a softer sound.

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-There is no alt cns for CPS2 scaling for those with an 0.833 xscale.
Not a feature I care about promoting. I think the Mugen community (myself included) collectively messed up when we used the raw aspect ratio for most CPS characters. I guess originally it was because resizing them didn't look good in the low resolutions that were available at the time, but nowadays there's no point in doing it.

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-The characters that had CvS2 hitsparks previously still uses those sounds instead of the new ones.
This is just Nakoruru unless I'm missing something. And it's to match the sparks.

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-All characters immediately stop running if the opponent jumps over or dodges through them instead of you choosing to (The CONFIG.txt should have an option to let them continue running as it's a good method that pull them or viewing stages with longer bounds).
That is how running works in CvS and I think it makes sense.

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-Every time a opponent get hits with a special or super, another fixed hitspark always appears right behind them if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 1 and no way to get rid of it (I find this annoying as certain attacks can make it feel misaligned).
If you look at some Capcom sparks (SFA from the top of my head) and mine, you'll see that that's how it's supposed to be. I forget why I didn't make them like that from the getgo.

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Guy:
-The sliding dust on his run stop animation is the not same position as Hayagake's one.
-The sliding dust sound effect on Hayagake's run stop is not the same as his running animation.
That was a poor attempt at making them look different. Your post made me try something different so I made the regular run stop animation less exaggerated and I think it works quite well. Still not sure about using the same sound.

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Nash (Although it's mostly regarding Shadow instead):
-I personally think the SFA2 style normals should be for Shadow instead (The old animations were accurate to SFA3, now it's more kin to MSHvsSF which fits Shadow more).
I think he's too much like Guile in SFA3. So what I did was use the SFA3 punches and the SFA2 kicks, which is the most unique combination compared to him.
If you take a look at SF5, Capcom also returned to his SFA2 normals instead of SFA3.

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-He doesn't have a standalone def file for Shadow.
I could do this for him and other chars if enough people showed interest.

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-All of Shadow's specials, throws and supers are lacking voice clips (Even though he doesn't speak, he still grunts during them).
I will have to take a closer look at the source. (This is one of the changes that'd be too bothersome to do in both Mugen and Ikemen so it's probably only going in the latter)

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-The eye gleam doesn't play before the superpause (Letting it play during it is inaccurate to MSHvsSF and doesn't stand out to Nash).
Superpause mechanics are very different in MvC and SF/CvS, so the eye gleam is just an easter egg.

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-Shadow's Psycho Power flames are technically supposed to be blue, not purple.
Bison's are also blue in MSHvSF so I guess either one works. But making them blue may make him stand out more so I'll think about it.

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-Shadow's Sonic Boom has no flames when it hits the opponent and just feel like a recolor of Nash's Sonic Boom.
Shadow can throw Sonic Booms like no one else thanks to them being a QCF motion, so I feel that having flames everywhere could get annoying.

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-Final Mission is missing a swing sound when he punches upward and an eye gleam effect at the end of the animation when it's successful.
Regarding the latter, I think having it twice in the same move would be overdoing it.

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-Shadow should have his own dedicated super texts with the move names from MvSF and not from Nash since they are technically different.
I did away with the fact most of his moves have "Shadow" in them. That's cool in MvSF where he replaced Nash, but here I don't think there's much of a point since those moves behave the same.

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-Shadow doesn't "explode" if he lost 2 rounds.
That'd be a nice touch now that you mention it.

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Nakoruru:
-She is the only one who have her hitsparks unchanged.
I asked people if I should change them but there were no strong feelings either way. I guess they're even more out of place now that even the older chars use the new sparks, but they still look nice I think.

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Lei-Lei:
-Each step from her running animation doesn't have a landing effect.
I had tried that but it looks a bit too busy with the other dust effects.

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-PP and KK versions of Hourei is excessive since they're both the same throw with a different command.
You're right but it's also like that in DS, and it feels weird when a throw input (kick in this case) does nothing.

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Ryu:
-His super text has a typo it's missing a extra u on Shinkuu and Hadouken.
That depens on what system you're using to romanize it. I'm using the same as Capcom there.
Admittedly I'm not 100% consistent with that, but I at least try to have the same system for each group of text (e.g. all of his super texts use that system).

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-Mode Change does not change her palette when switching.
I may do that in the future. I kind of don't like having the palettes in the SFF though because it makes it harder for people to change them.

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-It would be nice to have the option to perform Nekketsu Hadouken in a Tengyou angle.
I think that'd ironically make it less special.

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Pocket Shin Gouki:
-He is using special guard sparks for his normals.
-The opponent automatically air recovers from Messatsu Gou Hadou, Tenma Gou Zankuu, Messatsu Gou Shoryuu and Messatsu Gou Senpuu (Messatsu Gou Rasen is the only level 1 super that does not do that).
Both points are like the Marvel games.

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Yuri:
-When the opponent hits the ground from using Raioushou, a strong ground shockwave from the fightfx appears instead of her own and is layered incorrectly.
I like to just use the screenpack effects in cases like this.

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Honestly, I think the characters needs more than just bug fixing. This is what I meant about inconsistency back then as some of them don't match up with one another (Pocket Shin Gouki is the only exception as his style is different from the others). The problem is that I just don't understand why you left certain parts of the original versions as is on the 2022 updates instead of keeping the consistency the same. This is why I decided not to come back to the topic until a few months later until everyone is out first and see if any changes happen. Even if I see nothing wrong with a specific character, the general census still applies with them. Whether you choose to follow this or not, I'll leave that up to you.
To be fair I already made them more consistent than I set out to do thanks to feedback like this. But I think if people want to put together a 100% "PotS style" roster they already have the pieces to do that, so I'd rather just keep modifying and trying to improve things (even if not everything is a hit).
If I didn't change something from the original versions it's either because I forgot, or thought it looked good enough already, I guess. If I were making a full game I'd definitely make things 100% consistent but as it stands there's not much of a point.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#424  June 28, 2022, 09:37:17 AM
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PotS I saw that you fixed Dictator's intros but E.Ryu's intro does not trigger against DivineWolf's Akuma.

Akuma does his part, but Ryu is having none of it :D

Akuma comes packed in with a patch only for Victory's Evil Ryu as DW has not been very active lately.
I would give you the link, but DW's links are down if you need the patch or anything, I can send the file over.
Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 09:42:47 AM by PeXXeR
Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#425  June 28, 2022, 11:28:52 PM
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Movelists are not showing up properly on ikemen Go on Mac.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#426  June 29, 2022, 11:44:38 AM
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Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#427  June 30, 2022, 07:30:55 PM
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Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#428  June 30, 2022, 08:35:00 PM
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That's weird. Like it's missing the font. Does it happen to my chars only? Can you see Kung Fu Man's movelist? I ask because I didn't do anything out of the ordinary with them.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#429  June 30, 2022, 09:47:12 PM
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That's weird. Like it's missing the font. Does it happen to my chars only? Can you see Kung Fu Man's movelist? I ask because I didn't do anything out of the ordinary with them.

Oh great point! I'm new to Ikemen on the mac so I clearly didn't think this through. Nope, KFM's movelist doesn't show up correctly neither. Case closed.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#430  July 01, 2022, 02:19:06 PM
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Not necessarily closed. If you want to help out with Ikemen you could report that issue over at GitHub.
Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
#431  July 02, 2022, 08:46:50 PM
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Hi PotS, thanks for the consistent updates lad.

Also, I know I reported this and you gave me a pretty good explanation to why its happening but is there a way to mitigate this ?
Problem is the Super Hadouken connecting when its not supposed to I guess, or maybe just tweak it so all hits connect ?



Edit: One more thing about Ryu.

He leaves Victory's Sean hanging :P  I cant even remember if this intro was actually a thing in 3s
Also, Dictator delays his intro vs Rugal in CVS2 and waits for the panther to grow at him, your Dictator just goes ahead, which is nitpicking at this point but hey.
Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 11:31:12 PM by PeXXeR
Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest July 3rd)
#432  July 03, 2022, 05:32:52 PM
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Also, I know I reported this and you gave me a pretty good explanation to why its happening but is there a way to mitigate this ?
Problem is the Super Hadouken connecting when its not supposed to I guess, or maybe just tweak it so all hits connect ?
I don't think it's such a big deal since you're spending meter to get that last hit. It does look a bit janky, though, so I'll see if there's anything that can be done about it without affecting other combos or having to change the system.
To make all hits connect I'd have to nerf the move in other ways, I think.

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Edit: One more thing about Ryu.

He leaves Victory's Sean hanging :P  I cant even remember if this intro was actually a thing in 3s
I've forgotten a lot about SF lore, but it's odd that they'd have that intro. Ryu met Sean like once or something. What might be cool in a full game is Ryu and Ken doing the fist bump, and Ken and Sean doing the noogie.

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Also, Dictator delays his intro vs Rugal in CVS2 and waits for the panther to grow at him, your Dictator just goes ahead, which is nitpicking at this point but hey.
Might add that later.


Have another consistent update today:

Mugen versions:
- Fixed most of what ZolidSone mentioned

Ikemen versions (might as well mention it here since few people visit that section):
- Same, plus other stuff
- Vega/Bison is the star of this update because he saw a few changes, including the addition of EX moves (I call it the get-PeXXeR-to-try-Ikemen-Go update). They might be tweaked in the future but are already functional and useful
Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 06:05:20 PM by PotS
Re: 2022 Character Updates
#433  July 03, 2022, 06:15:46 PM
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Thank you for actually going ahead and implementing those, I am downloading Ikemen right now, so I will go over pretty much every char.

Currently im looking at the mugen docs and the ikemen docs to port the screenpack I want to use for ikemen and I am interested in that buffer system that Extra mentioned if its that easy to switch id rather switch now cause some of my chars dont have a buffer system.

You bet im gonna try the chars out, thanks again.
Re: 2022 Character Updates
#434  July 04, 2022, 04:26:18 AM
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Oh, hey, I gave Sean and Ryu that intro since they interacted more in MvC (Sean has some cameos in Ryu's intro and ending), but that's it :P

Re: 2022 Character Updates
#435  July 26, 2022, 09:19:41 PM
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Hi, I encountered a problem with your Sakura, it happens only on some specific stages though (Kof Neowave stages released lately by Caddie), so maybe it's not Sakura's fault at all. Anyway I thougt you might want to know. When you knock opponent down in the corner and perform Nekketsu Hadoken, while he's still lying on the ground, the projectile stucks in the edge of a stage.
BTW, it's good to have you back on MFG :D
Re: 2022 Character Updates
#436  July 26, 2022, 09:41:27 PM
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Thanks. :) That sounds like an issue with the stages. I'll let him know.
Re: 2022 Character Updates
#437  July 31, 2022, 12:52:49 AM
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Welcome back!