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Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013) (Read 23160 times)

Started by Cybaster, April 10, 2013, 12:55:53 am
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Cybaster

Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#1  April 10, 2013, 12:55:53 am
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Well, no need to present him anymore. :)
Updated to the current standard and made him compatible with SSJ Goku Z2 where needed.

Mandatory screenshots :


LINK : http://network.mugenguild.com/cybaster/
Refresh the page if you don't see the new update date !

UPDATE LOG :
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

C&C welcome as usual. Hopefully I didn't "create" any last minute bug. :P


UPDATED - 15/04/2013

- Boomerang Kick added after Ground MK Hurricane Kick.
- Changed the Genkidama command back to qcf,hcb+P.
- Dragon Blast Uppercut plays a guard sound when P2 blocks it.
- Goku gets back control 5 ticks later during forward air dash (fixing infinite by NxL ?).
Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 12:27:18 am by Cybaster

The Real Niko

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#2  April 10, 2013, 12:58:23 am
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Oh. Shit. Just got real. If I had the life bars you keep for yourselves I'd go and make a select.def of just DBZ. Downloading!

Sinnesloschen

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#3  April 10, 2013, 12:59:49 am
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Sweet, I've been waiting for this.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Alpaca-San said, December 27, 2014, 08:50:31 am
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?

NoZ

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#4  April 10, 2013, 01:53:07 am
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Cybaster

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#5  April 10, 2013, 01:57:14 am
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Because you have SSJ Goku to play with. ;)

The Real Niko said, April 10, 2013, 12:58:23 am
If I had the life bars you keep for yourselves
Huh :???: Are you talking about me or Balthazar ?
The bars in Balth's screenshots are public.
Those in mine are not DBZ related at all and have been reverse engineered (and released) by Ryon.

NoZ

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#6  April 10, 2013, 03:11:29 am
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Was forbidden Genkidama removed as well?

senorfro

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#7  April 10, 2013, 07:19:52 am
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- Boomerang Kick is still missing from Mk ground Hurricane Kick
- Snap Kick still acts weird on parries.  On normal version, some characters will have the kick go thru the opponent when a parry is attempted.  On Ex version, either it will go thru the opponent, the opponent will have to be parry it twice, or the parry seems to not activate and they still get hit.

Sinnesloschen

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#8  April 10, 2013, 07:20:15 am
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Alpaca-San said, December 27, 2014, 08:50:31 am
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?

senorfro

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#9  April 10, 2013, 07:25:07 am
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Well I tried it again and I still can't do it.  You're doing QCB+kick after MK Hurricane Kick on the ground, right?

Sinnesloschen

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#10  April 10, 2013, 07:27:05 am
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It's QCF+kick, so it's probably your inputs that are off. Besides, the timing is pretty strict.
Alpaca-San said, December 27, 2014, 08:50:31 am
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?

senorfro

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#11  April 10, 2013, 07:28:25 am
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That's Blur Kick.  Boomerang is done with QCB + Kick and should be do-able on the ground or air.

Sinnesloschen

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#12  April 10, 2013, 07:30:52 am
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...Crap, you're right.
Alpaca-San said, December 27, 2014, 08:50:31 am
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?

Balthazar

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#13  April 10, 2013, 09:13:23 am
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Dang I kinda didn't keep in mind that with the new QCBx2+P command, it's a LOT harder to smoothly combo your Ki Blasts into Genki Dama.
Anyone else having more trouble pulling it off? At least especially on keyboard, since you kinda have to reposition your hand from doing the QCF to the QCB. Doing QCF,HCB  from the multiple QCF commands had a lot more natural flow.
Also. s.SP still has such a short range it whiffs a lot in combos. But well the animation just isn't wider. You'll just have to use the s.SK then :P

Alternate download link (my mugen page (the char is the same, I only changed the palette selection a bit)):
http://network.mugenguild.com/balthazar/goku.html

Also, if you didn't get his personal stage yet, Goku's House by Daeron, get that here as well, now!!
http://network.mugenguild.com/balthazar/stage_gokuhouse.html

TRUEMicah

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#14  April 10, 2013, 09:16:00 am
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Balthazar said, April 10, 2013, 09:13:23 am
Dang I kinda didn't keep in mind that with the new QCBx2+P command, it's a LOT harder to smoothly combo your Ki Blasts into Genki Dama.
Anyone else having more trouble pulling it off? At least especially on keyboard, since you kinda have to reposition your hand from doing the QCF to the QCB.
Ditto.
I personally changed my commands back to normal. ;P

Iced

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#15  April 10, 2013, 10:26:31 am
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a good alt command would be qcb f punch, then you get the best of both worlds i guess.

Omega

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#16  April 10, 2013, 10:43:08 am
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Thanks for the updates man. Great work as usual guys.

Balthazar

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#17  April 10, 2013, 10:46:57 am
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Iced said, April 10, 2013, 10:26:31 am
a good alt command would be qcb f punch, then you get the best of both worlds i guess.
Not at all, it's your fingers switching to the initial qcb from the qcf's that's troublesome. It'd be better as qcf b+P, or the old one might still be better.

Cybaster

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#18  April 10, 2013, 11:51:20 am
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- Ok, so I guess I'll put back the old command for Genkidama ? :P
- Regarding MK Hurricane Kick > Boomerang kick, I finally added it. I even went as far as having the opponent bounce on ground from it, making it the best version, allowing for new combos.
- I'll look into the Snap Kick. It's odd...

Iced

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#19  April 10, 2013, 12:18:34 pm
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Sinnesloschen

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#20  April 10, 2013, 06:26:27 pm
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Cybaster said, April 10, 2013, 11:51:20 am
- Ok, so I guess I'll put back the old command for Genkidama ? :P
Yes, please do.
Since nobody's posted this:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
-Dragon Blast Uppercut doesn't play a guard sound when P2 blocks it.
Alpaca-San said, December 27, 2014, 08:50:31 am
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?
Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 10:49:04 pm by C.A.N

OrochiWeapon2000

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#21  April 10, 2013, 11:53:30 pm
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The "Slash Down Kick" doesn't cause air knockdown, making it VERY unsafe at times. Especially against grapplers like Hugo, Zangief, or other characters with quick grabs who can catch Goku even when he's on the offensive just because of that.

Was that intended at all?

Mugen Man 20X6

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#22  April 11, 2013, 12:32:04 am
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I'm pretty sure you can just tech/quickstand to get out of this, but if you get a knockdown in the corner, you can keep tk'ing the divekick to otg the opponent over and over and over...

SSJ GokuZ2 can do this too and its a little bit easier because it feels like his divedick comes out faster.

TRUEMicah

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#23  April 11, 2013, 08:01:26 am
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Omega

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#24  April 13, 2013, 08:40:02 pm
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SSJ Goku has more speed when doing combo's and has a rage mode wich allows even more. Normal Goku has some limits compared to that wich really puts the distance between Normal and SSJ. Balthazar and Cybaster really know what they do when it comes to this. İ like both of them in many ways. Great characters Mugen users.

BPTM2694

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#25  April 13, 2013, 11:33:55 pm
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If Goku and SSJ Goku do beam collision and SSJ Goku wins or they tie then SSJ Goku disappears.

Also, to avoid having to make another post in the SSJ Goku topic just for this, if SSJ Goku knocks Rajaa's Necro in the air and catches him with Hyper Rush then the uppercut will miss and Goku will go on anyway even though he's hitting no one. Also normal Goku doesn't seem to knock Rajaa's Necro as far when he does the Spirit Bomb Kaiyoken finisher (he only goes about halfway across the screen instead of the other side.) It doesn't cause any real problems though, just thought I'd point it out.

Cybaster

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#26  April 14, 2013, 01:28:43 am
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C.A.N said, April 10, 2013, 06:26:27 pm
1- Since nobody's posted this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEwvvzFRS9I
2- Dragon Blast Uppercut doesn't play a guard sound when P2 blocks it.
1- Added more startup time to air dash before getting control, hopefully fixing this (I can't test this type of stuff... :gonk:)
2- Fixed.

OrochiWeapon2000 said, April 10, 2013, 11:53:30 pm
The "Slash Down Kick" doesn't cause air knockdown, making it VERY unsafe at times. Especially against grapplers like Hugo, Zangief, or other characters with quick grabs who can catch Goku even when he's on the offensive just because of that.

Was that intended at all?
So you mean both are in the air, Goku hits P2 (a grappler) with Dive Kick, but because there's no knockdown, P2 can air grab Goku and hit him ?
If that's the case, I can probably make it safer.

Mugen Man 20X6 said, April 11, 2013, 12:32:04 am
I'm pretty sure you can just tech/quickstand to get out of this, but if you get a knockdown in the corner, you can keep tk'ing the divekick to otg the opponent over and over and over...
Are you testing on a char with a long standup parameter, because I can't perform this ?

BPTM2694 said, April 13, 2013, 11:33:55 pm
1- If Goku and SSJ Goku do beam collision and SSJ Goku wins or they tie then SSJ Goku disappears.

2- Also, to avoid having to make another post in the SSJ Goku topic just for this, if SSJ Goku knocks Rajaa's Necro in the air and catches him with Hyper Rush then the uppercut will miss and Goku will go on anyway even though he's hitting no one. Also normal Goku doesn't seem to knock Rajaa's Necro as far when he does the Spirit Bomb Kaiyoken finisher (he only goes about halfway across the screen instead of the other side.) It doesn't cause any real problems though, just thought I'd point it out.
1- Fixed already (not released yet).
2- Yup, thanks. That's because Necro goes into his stun state. Added a line in the hitdef to force him to stand. Won't fix the second part, as it's not game breaking and not really bothersome anyway.


Sinnesloschen

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#27  April 14, 2013, 01:35:07 am
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Cybaster said, April 14, 2013, 01:28:43 am
So you mean both are in the air, Goku hits P2 (a grappler) with Dive Kick, but because there's no knockdown, P2 can air grab Goku and hit him ?
If that's the case, I can probably make it safer.
Look at the frame advantage if it hits an aerial opponent. It ranges from barely safe to a guaranteed punish.
Alpaca-San said, December 27, 2014, 08:50:31 am
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?

AquaTeamV3

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#28  April 14, 2013, 02:08:54 am
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C.A.N said, April 10, 2013, 06:26:27 pm
Since nobody's posted this:

*combo*

0_0 Man, I wish my air-dashes were that clean.  You essentially have to have Jedi-level execution to pull something like that off though, FADC xx jump xx air dash is a ton of inputs on its own.

Speaking of, has the use of PPP or another macro ever been considered for air-dashes, or do I just have to suck it up and use the GG-Style UF,F command to IAD?
Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 02:16:31 am by AquaTeamV3

Cybaster

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#29  April 14, 2013, 02:12:13 am
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Karasai

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#30  April 14, 2013, 08:14:07 pm
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Genki Dama doesn't work, did you guys change the command?

StanTheMan

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#31  April 14, 2013, 08:42:25 pm
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Yes they did, its now qcb*2+P. Its in the update log along with the other changes they made.

TTTTTsd

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#32  April 14, 2013, 08:52:04 pm
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Wait. more startup to Air Dash control? Does that mean IAD is less effective now? Please don't tell me you nerfed that.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!

Balthazar

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#33  April 14, 2013, 10:08:32 pm
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Yes, we had to nerf that! And the Genki Dama command will be changed back to the original in the coming update (probably tomorrow I think).

Cybaster

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#34  April 14, 2013, 11:28:45 pm
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Killer Kong said, April 14, 2013, 08:52:04 pm
Wait. more startup to Air Dash control? Does that mean IAD is less effective now? Please don't tell me you nerfed that.
We couldn't allow people like NxL to perform infinites like in his videos... :(
Well, I nerfed it slightly, but I have no idea if this makes the previous infinite impossible or not, since I can't really test this kind of stuff myself, lol.
     Posted: April 15, 2013, 12:26:47 am
UPDATED - 15/04/2013

- Boomerang Kick added after Ground MK Hurricane Kick.
- Changed the Genkidama command back to qcf,hcb+P.
- Dragon Blast Uppercut plays a guard sound when P2 blocks it.
- Goku gets back control 5 ticks later during forward air dash (fixing infinite by NxL ?).

Balthazar

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#35  April 15, 2013, 01:02:49 am
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Get him now :D!

Mugen Man 20X6

Re: Goku Z2 updated (10/04/2013)
#36  April 16, 2013, 03:05:36 am
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\0/ sunbro

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#37  April 16, 2013, 04:16:05 am
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i was waiting for this update... thank you guys... also nice touch with those new sprites!!

TTTTTsd

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#38  April 16, 2013, 02:08:14 pm
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The nerf to the IAD is really jarring, especially in SSJ Goku, but even here. My only suggestion is maybe reduce the hitstun on the air normals just enough so that you can't jump and loop them, as opposed to the air dash nerf, and restore it back to control properties just to make it as useful as it was before. Or maybe make it not 5 ticks/frames before getting control, maybe like, between 2 and 4? Just a suggestion, though.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!
Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 02:23:17 pm by Killer Kong

Zzyzzyxx

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#39  April 16, 2013, 07:10:18 pm
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I won't be able to play Mugen for a while, thus I won't be able to do any in-depth comment for now.

The problem with the airdash fest isn't in the air dash itself. It's in the Focus Attack.

Tweaking the air dash features won't remove infinites like

Vanilla Goku: [HP > Focus > Run Cancel], repeat

SsjGoku: [Focus > Running jump > Dive Kick], repeat

Vegeta: Focus > Running jump > aerial kiblasts], repeat

None of these infibites depend on air dash.All of them depend on Focus.

----

My suggestion is so that Focus knocks opponent down when performed during a combo.

Balthazar played SFEX and he knows that Guard Breaks behave like this in that game.

Seeing KillerKong's post, I assume that attacking during air dash feels stiff and unresponsive now. This problem will be solved as well. You can restore the original features of air dashes safely.

The other infintes are simple, and can be solved easily by decreasing the hittimes of Vegeta's Kiblasts and SsjGoku's Divekick

Sorry for nor saying this before. Like I said, I can't play Mugen because of other priorities. Sending future betas to NxL instead of me will be a good idea from now on.

Cybaster

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#40  April 16, 2013, 07:57:33 pm
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Thanks a lot for the in-depth answer. I'll try that and send the updates to NxL indeed. :)

Balthazar

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#41  April 16, 2013, 08:21:05 pm
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Thanks, and that nasty Focus Attack is indeed a troublemaker, I wonder why we didn't change that earlier?
I agree, having it knockdown an opponent when it's used a second consecutive time in a combo will take care of it.
I plea for making them twist-knockout, as if you've hit them with a fully-charged Focus Attack.
Maybe give it ALL the properties of a fully-charged one :)

Cazaki

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#42  April 16, 2013, 08:44:10 pm
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I wouldn't say ALL because if you make it untechable then that's a problem IMHO.

Demented Fortune Cookie

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#43  April 17, 2013, 12:01:20 am
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For some reason (and maybe I'm just cursed), in 1.0, the Genkidama finisher never kills the opponent because the helper gets destroyed right before the last hit.

Works fine in Winmugen though.

Killer Kong said, April 16, 2013, 02:08:14 pm
The nerf to the IAD is really jarring
Not to mention it doesn't seem to have fixed anything in Goku's case (see NxL's latest vid). Timing doesn't bother me that much though, it's just like Guilty Gear (give or take 2 frames).

TTTTTsd

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#44  April 17, 2013, 12:08:00 am
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I'd prefer it be no frames as it was before. Frankly, it was a really nice edge and made it more practical all around.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!

Balthazar

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#45  April 17, 2013, 11:41:18 am
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Alright, so changing the airdash back and nerfing the Focus Attack as previously mentioned, would make you boys happy  :beam:?
Never noted the Genki Dama thing since as you know I only test in Winmugen.

Karasai

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#46  April 19, 2013, 01:25:10 am
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Small feedback;
Vegeta vs Goku intro causes Goku to grunt in his Japanese voice even though English is the selected language.

Sinnesloschen

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#47  April 19, 2013, 01:51:14 am
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^ It also plays his English voice when Japanese is selected.
Alpaca-San said, December 27, 2014, 08:50:31 am
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?

D20Watt

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#48  April 19, 2013, 10:22:20 am
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Oh, hey. Did you um.... fix that dive kick problem? You know the one that causes Goku to float away?

Cybaster

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#49  April 19, 2013, 10:41:50 am
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Demented Fortune Cookie said, April 17, 2013, 12:01:20 am
For some reason (and maybe I'm just cursed), in 1.0, the Genkidama finisher never kills the opponent because the helper gets destroyed right before the last hit.
Works fine in Winmugen though.
That's odd... Will check.

Karasai said, April 19, 2013, 01:25:10 am
Small feedback;
Vegeta vs Goku intro causes Goku to grunt in his Japanese voice even though English is the selected language.
Will fix.

D20Watt said, April 19, 2013, 10:22:20 am
Oh, hey. Did you um.... fix that dive kick problem? You know the one that causes Goku to float away?
I fixed all the bugs I could replicate. So please test and tell me if the bug still happens and under what conditions. ;)

Iced

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#50  April 19, 2013, 01:08:19 pm
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thats not a bug its a feature, goku spotted something shiny and he thought that was more interesting than the fight.

Sir Lord Alpyne

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#51  April 20, 2013, 01:04:59 am
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Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

OrochiWeapon2000

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#52  April 29, 2013, 05:26:53 am
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When performing the Level 1 Bicycle Kick on certain non-moving micro-characters, Goku's position after the kick is so low, it causes him to continue looping his "falling" state, going through the ground indefinitely. If the time runs out during this loop and Goku is the winner, the super background plays several times before transitioning to the next round.

I tested this with:
Kirby (Cyanide)
Boggy B (Aku Ma)
Biospark and Knuckle Joe (Di Ji Jared)
T.A.C. (Kung Fu Man)
Bubblum (Borghi)
Deathstrike (Me/OrochiWeapon2000)

BPTM2694

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#53  April 30, 2013, 04:00:24 am
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Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but in all three currently released Z2 characters with beam collision it does the beam fatality for the loser even in round 1, which of course doesn't make sense.

Iced

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#54  April 30, 2013, 04:10:40 am
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I kindof prefer it like that, if it was only triggered on second round you would hardly see it. but i guess i just didnt thought it was that important?

BPTM2694

Re: Goku Z2 updated AGAIN (15/04/2013)
#55  April 30, 2013, 04:16:56 am
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It really isn't, to me at least, but I thought I might as well point it out.
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