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Death Battle (And sprite fight animations) (Read 1407165 times)

Started by Long John Killer, April 09, 2015, 03:59:16 AM
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2401  September 22, 2020, 02:30:19 AM
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Huh.  They changed the thumbnail, was live-action stills before just like their last live-action fight with Nightwing and Daredevil.  And a very poor choice in Winter Soldier's replacement artwork that looks nothing like him in the fight....?  Bizarre.

Them giving Red Hood the Supergirl feat then pulling it away after the fight was ridiculous misleading presentation.  Also I won't claim to know the ins and outs of all D.C. and Marvel organizations, but literally the Best of the Best humanity has to offer League of Assassins seems to me a fair bit higher on the totem pole of teachers than WWII slugfests and questionably effective brainwashing.  Especially when prior D.C. match with Black Canary said all D.C. "average" humans are noticeably stronger, faster and more durable than real world comparisons.  I dunno, just me.

Man, I don't think I've agreed with a thing they've done this season since its return.  The piss poor Sailor Moon rep after 5-so years of occasionally bringing up Beerus vs Galaxia in random Screw Attack bits still burns the most, but this is starting to really suck at guessing, man.  At least their Wally/Sonic one they had to throw up their hands in the air and guess as well that unanswerable multiversal controlling power might not equal other unanswerable multiversal controlling power.

Well, anyways, don't have much say on the next one.  A friend gifted me the entire blu-ray series of Soul Eater....and I kinda never got around to watching it.  I dunno why, but the very first episode ticked me off the wrong way making mentally ill people just monsters to collect for Maka and Soul, and the occasional other times I caught it on t.v. it was just....not gripping.  I'm told this guy is like reverse-Venom, though, the black ooze stuff is all inside him.  And apparently he has a significant sound attack, so.....R.I.P. Venom?
Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 02:37:24 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2402  September 22, 2020, 03:54:06 AM
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My biggest thought in the fight was 'Can Red Hood do any damage to the metal arm of the Winter Soldier'?

Well, it didn't sound like it was needed since they said that Bucky had more experience then Jason (Which.. sort of makes sense... maybe?). But, yet Red Hood has Venom.. wouldn't that give him the strength boost needed to break off the metal arm (or least break parts of it)?

The next battle... Never heard of Soul Eater. Looks like I'll need to research that series before going in.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2403  September 23, 2020, 03:19:33 AM
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It's been a long time since I've watched Soul Eater. As far as I remember, is kind of like demon hunter's academy, but with the added bonus of people who can transform into weapons (for example, one of main characters can transform into a scythe for the other to use, while another has two people that transform into two separate guns.), and they strategize from each other. However, I think the two need to have an agreement, or at the very least, tolerate each other for that bond to work. There's one guy/weapon called Excalibur that is said to be very powerful, however, the guy itself is just a pain in the ass and in his own little world, so no really wants to work with him (one guy came close to him, but ended because he caught a cold or didn't care about germs or something.)

Because of that this battle is which of the two fighters makes a better team for the other? (In this case, the Symbiote, or the weapon called Ragnarok.)
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2404  September 24, 2020, 08:18:43 AM
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Also I won't claim to know the ins and outs of all D.C. and Marvel organizations, but literally the Best of the Best humanity has to offer League of Assassins seems to me a fair bit higher on the totem pole of teachers than WWII slugfests and questionably effective brainwashing.
It's not just that. The video neglects to mention this (which is understandable, these episodes are overly long as it is), but Bucky was essentially raised on an Army Base after being orphaned, and from a pretty early age was learning all the basics that the soldiers being trained there were learning. He had such a natural aptitude to it that the higher ups noticed, and that's why they fast tracked him to getting training from a variety of different sources, like the British SAS (and many others, unmentioned by the video). By the time he was done, he was an absolute expert soldier and combatant, and that's why he was recruited to be Captain America's sidekick. The basic idea was that Bucky would serve two purposes: he'd be the squeaky clean smiling kid sidekick of Captain America in public, but out in the field, he'd be a merciless black ops soldier who'd sneak behind enemy lines, and would quickly and silently take out enemy soldiers while Captain America led the charge on the front lines (which also preserved Cap's image as a propaganda tool—distancing himself from the wetwork Bucky was doing while also placing Cap in a very visible role that could raise the morale of everyone around him). Death Battle uses panels from and references exclusively the Golden Age version of Bucky's recruitment, which has since been supplanted by the later one that Ed Brubaker developed in the same story that brought Bucky back as the Winter Soldier. The Golden Age origin was recontextualized into the "official" origin story for Bucky that the government promoted for propaganda purposes during WWII, much in the same way as the Golden Age Captain America comics themselves are in-universe pieces of propaganda that aren't the actual full truth of what Captain America was up to back in WWII (though they are somewhat inspired by the "real adventures"; essentially allowing creators to use stuff from those stories if they'd like, but also give them the freedom to disregard those old stories entirely).

As an aside, that that backstory revision I just described would ordinarily make me roll my eyes and stop reading. Both of those ideas, of Bucky really being a black ops soldier disguised as a friendly kid sidekick, and bringing him back 40 years after he was unceremoniously killed off by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee—as an edgy brainwashed assassin with a metal arm, no less!—are both ideas that simply shouldn't work, ideas that if they appeared in almost any other context would be awful, a symptom of everything wrong with superhero comics. And yet... Brubaker makes it all work. That Captain America run is just too damn good; it's easily the best Captain America run of this century, and stands alongside all the other standout runs on the character.

Anyways, I wouldn't put much stock into the League of Assassins training stuff; every member of the Bat-family can beat up League of Assassins goons by the dozen (I certainly wouldn't describe them as the best of humanity at all, even among the non-henchmen types; not even R'as himself really qualifies); Jason Todd's training from Batman is far more relevant here. Which is honestly more than sufficient for this match-up! Batman's definitely more skilled, has more training, and is probably the better fighter (technically speaking) between him and Captain America. For that reason, I can totally buy that Jason has had overall better training/mastery of martial arts over Bucky, even if Bucky has waaaaaaaaaaaaay more experience overall and had a good deal more training. It also really should be noted that Captain America himself is no slouch: he's an insanely talented fighter who's received a lot of training, and has trained most Avengers (including Bucky himself) in hand-to-hand combat; in comics, "trained by Captain America" is shorthand for "is one of the best fighters in the world", and to defeat them in single combat you have to be a character who's like, whole gimmick is insane levels of martial arts mastery (i.e., Shang-Chi should absolutely demolish Hawkeye in a purely hand-to-hand fight, but Hawkeye should be evenly matched with say, Bullseye, again in a strictly hand-to-hand fight).

I think the best way to look at this fight is to examine it using the Batman/Captain America fight from JLA/Avengers, which is officially in continuity for both publishers (or was, at least, for DC, until the New 52... but maybe now it's back in continuity! Who knows! DC sure doesn't!). Those two fought briefly in it, and seemed pretty evenly matched; however, Batman noted that he suspected that the fight would go on for quite a long time, and that he could tell that Captain America's slightly beyond peak human physiology would probably give him the edge in the end (right after he said this, both he and Cap admitted to each other that they thought they were being manipulated to fight by the forces that brought them together and mutually agreed to stop fighting). And this was coming from early 2000s "Batgod" JLA-ass Batman, who'd be loath to admit he was anything other than the most perfect being on the planet! And that's a very fair take on such a match-up, one that I agree with: Batman has the edge when it comes to pure skill and quality of martial arts training, but Captain America is close behind him, and his enhanced physiology not only cancels out Batman's edge in skill, but it will ultimately see him the victor in a prolonged fight. Almost the same exact setup is here with Bucky and Jason: Jason probably has the slight edge when it comes to training, but Bucky's metal arm is just an such an overwhelming might that Jason's slight superiority in martial arts won't do him much good against.
Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 08:23:40 AM by Jmorphman
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2405  September 24, 2020, 01:22:59 PM
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Another thing I would say is worth considering is the fact that while both of them have access to superhuman levels of strength, Bucky's is innate and permanent while Jason's is a short burst from a drug.  So unless the Venom gave him enough of a boost to overwhelmingly outclass the Infinity Formula (which it doesn't), or his training was significantly higher than Bucky's to be able to end the fight instantly if given a slight strength advantage (which it isn't) then Jason really wouldn't be able to stand up to Bucky in the long run.

Anyways, I wouldn't put much stock into the League of Assassins training stuff; every member of the Bat-family can beat up League of Assassins goons by the dozen (I certainly wouldn't describe them as the best of humanity at all, even among the non-henchmen types; not even R'as himself really qualifies)

That's the Inverse Ninja Law in action; one assassin is an elite and powerful adversary.  A group of assassins are easily dispatched cannon fodder.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2406  September 28, 2020, 07:36:37 AM
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Another thing I would say is worth considering is the fact that while both of them have access to superhuman levels of strength, Bucky's is innate and permanent while Jason's is a short burst from a drug.  So unless the Venom gave him enough of a boost to overwhelmingly outclass the Infinity Formula (which it doesn't), or his training was significantly higher than Bucky's to be able to end the fight instantly if given a slight strength advantage (which it isn't) then Jason really wouldn't be able to stand up to Bucky in the long run.
I guess it's technically correct but I found it really weird that they were talking about the Infinity Formula as giving Bucky abilities beyond a normal human. Like sure I guess the accelerated healing and shit is true, but otherwise, all the Infinity Formula is supposed to do is make you immortal. Several characters that have it, like Nick Fury Sr. and Black Widow, are definitely just regular humans. Bucky is treated the same way: he's not at all a match for Captain America's enhanced physique—although interestingly enough, Captain America is also considered in large part to not be super-powered either: he's definitely capable of feats of strength, agility, and speed that would be impossible to even the greatest of athletes, but that's all stuff the human body is theoretically capable of; if someone strictly followed a perfect diet and workout regiment for their entire lives, starting from their birth, they'd be capable of the same stuff, it's just the Super-Soldier serum can give anyone that body instantly, even a 90 pound weakling like Steve used to be!

No, Bucky's real dominating factor here, and the reason why he could keep up with Captain America when he was still brainwashed, is that metal arm. The super strength it provides him helped ensure that when he became Captain America after Steve died, there wasn't a "downgrade", so to speak, in terms of superheroic combat ability. And it's that metal arm that gives him such an advantage over Jason, even if Jason's taken a dose of venom; while venom might theoretically give Jason the edge in strength (I'm honestly not sure that it would, I feel like they'd be evenly matched at best), Bucky's arm isn't a temporary boost, nor does it have all the deleterious effects that venom has on the people who take it.

That's the Inverse Ninja Law in action; one assassin is an elite and powerful adversary.  A group of assassins are easily dispatched cannon fodder.
Exactly; this is just the inverse ninja law, but applied to training. Jason didn't get any special training from any named League characters. Which is nothing special nor very persuasive in an argument for who would win in a fight, again because a horde of ninjas are jobbers, and thus also a horde of ninjas training Jason Todd isn't gonna help him improve over any of the training he already had from Batman.

But this has been changed, post New 52, apparently. Now he has received training from both Lady Shiva and Bronze Tiger while he was under the care of the League of Assassins, which is incredibly stupid and dumb—both characters had associations with the League, but neither one has ever been a willing full time member (Shiva was briefly associated with them in her youth, long before she became a professional assassin and master of martial arts; Bronze Tiger was kidnapped and brainwashed by the League for a period of time, and then subsequently freed); perhaps their tenures are yet another shitty change made by the New 52—but ultimately it's quite different from Jason being trained by a bunch of nobodies. Lady Shiva and Bronze Tiger are among the best martial artists in all of DC (Lady Shiva is probably the absolute number one, and Bronze Tiger is arguably better than Batman), and I'd feel comfortable saying that this training would be better than the stuff he learned from Batman (but then again, maybe Shiva and Tiger are no longer as good as they were before the New 52, I certainly don't know!).

... although, all this Lady Shiva and Bronze Tiger shit was written by absolute massive piece of shit and serial sexual harasser Scott Lobdell, so fuck it, we don't have to consider any of it. Dude just finished his 9 year run/stranglehold on Jason Todd, where he wrote Jason as an author avatar who was constantly shown to be the most badass cool guy with all the coolest shit, and it's this run where most of his big impressive training, weapons and other equipment, and feats come from that were cited by Death Battle. So yeah, fuck all that shit Bucky should've killed him harder.
Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 07:40:12 AM by Jmorphman
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2407  September 28, 2020, 10:40:36 PM
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Venom preview is up
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2408  September 29, 2020, 03:04:01 AM
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Knowing literally nothing about Soul Eater, a cursory bit of research seems to indicate that Crona has no fire or sound-based abilities, which IIRC was the crux of why Bane lost to Venom last time.  Anyone know what type of feats Crona has that would make them a match for Eddy?
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2409  September 29, 2020, 04:06:35 AM
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Knowing literally nothing about Soul Eater, a cursory bit of research seems to indicate that Crona has no fire or sound-based abilities, which IIRC was the crux of why Bane lost to Venom last time.  Anyone know what type of feats Crona has that would make them a match for Eddy?

Even with a cursory bit of research (I.E. TV Tropes), there is hope for Crona. Her weapon, Ragnarok, can scream loud enough to incapacitate enemies.

Also... Crona and Ragnarok are one in the same. Ragnarok is her blood (Squick).
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2410  September 29, 2020, 08:57:10 AM
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Knowing literally nothing about Soul Eater, a cursory bit of research seems to indicate that Crona has no fire or sound-based abilities, which IIRC was the crux of why Bane lost to Venom last time.  Anyone know what type of feats Crona has that would make them a match for Eddy?

she does , all her moves are based from her screaming. mind control won't work on her , she's already insane. if they use the manga as a basis then crona would win this. i've never seen venom perform amazing feats except from what if's storylines.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2411  September 29, 2020, 12:42:42 PM
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Ah, I stand corrected then.  I was looking at a wiki, and that made it look like all they had were weird blood manipulation stuff.  Like I said: Literally no knowledge on the source material so if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

It was enough to see where DB found enough aesthetic similarities to pit them against Venom, but if they use soundwaves as a weapon then I could see DB giving Crona the edge in that regard.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2412  September 30, 2020, 10:03:29 PM
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Crona preview is up
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2413  October 05, 2020, 07:25:56 PM
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And there's the full thing.

Next fight's certainly an odd one.  It's Red vs Blue.  Literally.  It's the Red Team of RvB versus the Blue Team.  I think they're gonna need to explain that a bit more before any conclusions can be drawn, between team members of them coming and going and the tank kinda being alive.  It's been a while since watching as well, no ide what they've been doing since switching to Halo 4 so 8 years behind.

I mean, for the basic guys that stick around though, they're all complete idiots but it'll probably come down to Sarge being kind of an idiot savant with his shotgun or Caboose being a full-on cartoon character and just goofing his way out of situations.

Also as an aside, this is the second episode in a row they had one thumbnail for the episode prior to release then changed it after its out.  Wonder why?  Nothing wrong with either of them before, personally liked both better before.
Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 11:39:13 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2414  October 12, 2020, 07:04:27 PM
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Red Team is up
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2415  October 12, 2020, 09:44:43 PM
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Ehhhh.....'kay.  I really do not want to know 343 stuff since their, like, entire history post-2010 and whenever Evolutions and Legends came out, so my knowledge of their somewhat tying in RvB to actual Halo canon has been foggy, but to the extent I've seen its just been easter eggs keeping at arms length as possible as to be considered actual canon (Its been years since touching Halo 4's Spartan Ops but I think the Caboose easter egg even has their audio log coming in via wormhole?).  To then just handwave Freelancer as actual UNSC content as fact....besides being a big ol' middle finger to the Spartan-II project and Halo's whole Covenant War lore, at best RvB prior was to be taken as an alt. universe where Spartans weren't a thing, this likewise means they'd need to take real Halo canon lore and stats and whatnot into affect, even where they contradict RvB.

Also Simmon's color change is just a options menu joke, so....like, I get WHY it's included, but it's not like it is consistent to his other reaction times.  Because it's a joke.  This reminds me of their breakdown with Yang, another Roster Teeth character with a joke taken at face value when that wasn't the intention.  Also they literally can not take off their armor by themselves, besides helmets obviously.  No Spartan or Freelancer can, it has to be done by outside help.
Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 11:24:27 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2416  October 17, 2020, 10:01:34 PM
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Okay, so Red vs. Blue won't happen this week. It's being pushed back for the debut of Red vs. Blue: ZERO (Which sounds like a soft drink more then a series).

In its place is a match up most people have been looking forward to: Sabrewulf vs. Jon Talbain. This battle happens in two weeks with Red vs. Blue being the following battle.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2417  October 18, 2020, 03:59:57 AM
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Having not interacted with Darkstalkers in forever because Capcom is a complete tease and won't actually do anything new with it, I don't remember everything that happened story-wise.  Read one of the mangas for it not not too long ago though, maybe about 2 months ago?  Generally though, the Darkstalkers world works with much higher power levels and stakes than Killer Instinct, and Sabrewulf I think just fights based on animal instincts whereas Jon's still got his training on his side.

Rare, or their predecessor company anyways, had another game in the 80's titled Sabre Wulf that KI's character is based off of, dunno how much that'll tie in or if they'd find reason to even try.  Not a whole lot to go off of anyways from what I recall playing of it; you find a blue werewolf while out on safari, you touch it you die.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2418  October 18, 2020, 05:28:17 AM
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I highly doubt that anything from that old game they can tie into Sabrewulf.. but you are right on him basically using his animal instincts (To a degree..) to fight compared to Talbain, who basically underwent a training from hell in order to tame the beast within him (In fact, he did that twice: once during the events of the first game so people can accept him as a member of society and then again during the events of the third game after he confronted his dark side)

Sabrewulf does have a fighting chance in that because he is an older werewolf, he's far more patient and exhibits better self control then he did in his younger years. It's not the same as what Talbain went through, but it does give him something to work with.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2419  October 18, 2020, 05:22:55 PM
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is there a way to see Dexter from showtime vs Akira from Death note? they prefer not to fight but the psychology fight would be really cool to see it
Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 05:38:35 PM by yaret
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2420  October 18, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
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They have an official suggestion box that they have linked in the video descriptions of the fights, but I don't know if they'd go for something like that.  They much more prefer fights that have less variables that are impossible to lock down, and pitting solely intelligence versus intelligence is hard to do right compared to "Power level X is greater than power level Y".  Lest you get weird turnouts like Joker versus Sweet Tooth, where every variable says Sweet Tooth dominates except intelligence having one talk the other straight into their death.  They don't even do army fights like they've shown interest prior in StarCraft's Zerg versus Halo's Flood because determining who's the better mastermind between them won't get you anywhere fast, to say nothing of the randomness of army versus army. (Though I'd have to imagine that one's clear-cut Flood wins, I dunno?)

And yeah, I don't think there's gonna be a LOT to draw from with the Sabre Wulf game for KI's character, but it is a reoccurring easter egg in Rare games to have the Sabrewulf character show up in other titles like Jet Force Gemini so I wouldn't be surprised if they acknowledge it in the video is all.  Don't think it'll help his chances much in this case though.