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Mario Mario by SeanAltly (and Jango) (Updated 10/18 with even more fixes) (Read 5722 times)

Started by Sean Altly, October 07, 2020, 09:45:24 PM
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Re: Mario Mario by SeanAltly (and Jango) (Updated 10/17 with fixes)
#41  October 18, 2020, 05:12:03 AM
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Appreciate the kind words everyone about the VA.

-Pat(Sabotage)(Mario Mario)

DW

Re: Mario Mario by SeanAltly (and Jango) (Updated 10/17 with fixes)
#42  October 18, 2020, 03:43:20 PM
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Whoops, the crouching normal thing is an oversight in the CvTW template I keep meaning to fix. However, as far as specials and supers, is there something I'm missing there because it seems like as soon as you start to enter a command while running it will take him out of the runstate anyway. I'm not sure how you could enter a special or super command while running that wouldn't cause him to stop running. Or is this an AI thing?

Well, if you're fast enough, you can actually pull off certain moves during running if the coding allows you to. So, adding a Stateno=[100,101] trigger for example. If 100 is running and 101 is the runstop state. You add the runstop state for when you will in fact stop running most of the time while trying to input a special/super command, though you'll still be able to do it from the runstop state, which leads into standing and it will still work.

How can you tell if it's off screen? This is a genuine question, not sarcasm or anything. Or can you just tell from the code?

Use FrontEdgeDist:

[State #, DestroySelf]
type = DestroySelf
trigger1 = Time > 0 && FrontEdgeDist <= -60


^This should work well enough generally for most projectiles. You can increase the distance value for larger projectiles, so they don't destroy themselves prematurely.

I have it so he gets control after 3 ticks, which it turns out is the entire length of his landing anim. I can fix this as well.

Not regain control during his landing state, just add an additional trigger to all his grounded attacks, that allow him to use them during the landing state. So just: trigger# = StateNo = 52; Added onto all his ground based normals, special, and supers.

I may add this, but the idea is he's using the boots to lift up into the air for the stomp, so it feels weird to me to have him do it mid-air, though I guess I coule reason that he's always using the lifts to jump, so ehhhh

He wouldn't/shouldn't go as high vertically as the ground version. Just a bit of a boost to change trajectory and come down on p2. It should behave a bit differently then the ground version in that respect. It can help his approach with getting in on p2, though it's entirely up to you.



Also I agree the voice is well done, albeit a bit low. Maybe you could run it thru a sound program like Audacity or something and increase the volume a bit?



Update:

Alright, so after a few arcade runs with him, I got a bit more for ya:

-So, for a lot of his special attacks, mainly his projectiles, they allow p2 to recover from getting hit far too quickly when it comes to air hits, or knock downs. I suggest adding a parameter like this to all of his special attacks that don't put p2 into a hard knock down state:

fall.recoverTime = 120

^This will allow them to recover still, but basically only when they're at ground level. A lot of times I hit p2 with Tool Time as they are trying to jump in on me, and they'll just instantly recover and sometimes even punish me! This happens with Fireball as well. Adding this parameter to them will stop that from happening.

-Please make it so that he can grab from his run states as well. Like I mentioned above with the run triggers, add those to his grab as well. Running up and grabbing p2 is a valid strategy and can help with opening up p2 to other tactics, if they fear that grab on run ins.

-The tiny Ba-Bombs are actually really useful lol. They are very instrumental to his victory. This is more of an inquiry; Are they unblockable? I have no problem with this and honestly suggest that they should be. As they wander around randomly and take several seconds to actually detonate once p2 is close to them. It'd help their utility out very much.

I also feel they should put p2 into a hard knockdown(unable to recover) state, though if you don't want, I'd suggest adding the above fall.recovertime parameter to their hitdefs. So p2 can't recover too soon and punish him.

-I feel like his Fireball recovery frames, where he's putting the gun away, lasts a tad bit too long. I'm fine with the slower start up, but it should be offset with a faster recovery to help him apply pressure by being able to engage p2 as the Fireball is out. Shaving several ticks off the recovery frames should suffice.

-You should apply some width for when Mario throws p2 into a corner. Whether it be from side switching, or keeping them in a corner. He kinda slides into them currently when done either way in the corner.

-One time when I won and I was in the corner, when Luigi comes in for their high-five winpose, he was misaligned as he came from the opposite side of the stage.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Thanks for the updates. Especially for Big Water Damage. It makes it so much better that it's air unblockable. It helps with p2 trying to jump in on him from the tiny Ba-Bombs and Fireballs. They gotta think twice now lol. Really liking this guy, great job. :)



Update 2:

-In regards to the fall recovery parameter, I think you should apply something similar to his normals as well. Maybe not as much as 120 tick, but maybe something around 90 or so. P2 is able to recover from my air combos a bit faster than they should with him.

-His command stomp normal(F+LK) is really good, but has too much start up imo. Even his overhead is a tad bit too slow. I haven't check the timings, but I feel they could both use with some ticks shaved off their start ups, more so the LK stomp. It's very good on wake up and jump ins. I use it a lot after a hard knock down on p2 and set them up with LP Tool Time as they are getting up. Then use LK stomp in unison with Tool Time. Though it comes out a bit too slow.

-Allowing Mario to special/super cancel from cr.HK would be nice too.

-He needs more invulnerability on the start up of his Lv1 supers. Especially Big Water Damage. It's too easy currently to poke him out of this on startup. I'd also suggest having the pipe itself hit p2 and set them up for the water blast, as it comes out of the ground.
Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 07:03:50 PM by DW
Re: Mario Mario by SeanAltly (and Jango) (Updated 10/17 with fixes)
#43  October 19, 2020, 04:28:37 AM
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Glad to see DW lending his experience to the feedback as well, it'll only make for a even better and more refined version of an awesome character.
Re: Mario Mario by SeanAltly (and Jango) (Updated 10/17 with fixes)
#44  October 19, 2020, 04:58:23 AM
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Okay, so I updated the link again, DW pointed out/suggested a lot of stuff, here's what got fixed/changed:

-Reduced recovery time on Fireball specials (5 less on HP version, 4 less on LP version, gotta admit it makes the animation a little wack but eh)
-Reduced startup on command normal stomp and wrench OH by a couple ticks each
-Made it so that he can perform all grounded normals, specials and supers during his landing state
-Added ability to perform specials, supers and grab while running
-Added recovertime parameter to all his projectiles
-Added width to throw
-Added more invulnerability to startup of L1 Super Big Water Damage

A few random notes on the other stuff:

-The bombs are unblockable but I didn't intent them to be, but if it works and isn't OP I will leave them that way. Also they should already be putting the opponent into hard knockdown, they have fall = 1 and fall.recover = 0 in their hitdefs
-The Fireball projectile uses the Projectile state controller instead of helper, which is why it dissipates the way it does, I know it's better to use helpers, I will probably recode it at some point
-Couldn't figure out what was causing the winpose misalignment, I will have to keep messing with it
-I got feedback a long time ago that characters shouldn't be able to combo from sweeps, can't remember who it was but it was one of those things where they kind of made me feel like an idiot for doing it so I thought it was like a big no-no

Anyway, be sure to download the update from the first post!
Guess who's back off the couch, got the panties in a drought

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All my stuff is open source, you never need permission to use anything I make. Just have fun!

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Re: Mario Mario by SeanAltly (and Jango) (Updated 10/18 with even more fixes)
#45  October 19, 2020, 09:05:53 PM
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-The bombs are unblockable but I didn't intent them to be, but if it works and isn't OP I will leave them that way. Also they should already be putting the opponent into hard knockdown, they have fall = 1 and fall.recover = 0 in their hitdefs

Ok cool. I didn't look over their hitdefs, so I wasn't sure if they did do hard knockdowns. It's not OP and it's what actually makes them useful. You don't have them track p2, and even if you did, they move slower than a player and take about 2-3 seconds to explode. Plenty of time to avoid them. It's totally fine.

-The Fireball projectile uses the Projectile state controller instead of helper, which is why it dissipates the way it does, I know it's better to use helpers, I will probably recode it at some point

That's cool. As I said, it's not important because it functions as it should. Nevermind my OCD. :P

-I got feedback a long time ago that characters shouldn't be able to combo from sweeps, can't remember who it was but it was one of those things where they kind of made me feel like an idiot for doing it so I thought it was like a big no-no

Lol, well, that's debatable... Though I'm not suggesting combo'ing from sweeps, just give him the ability to cancel from them. I haven't looked at the +/-'s for it, but I know it's very negative. Essentially a death sentence if it's blocked lol. He's gonna have to eat w/e p2 has in store for him. Though allowing him to cancel from his sweep would help him not be so left open. Nothing he can cancel from would be "true". Meaning, p2 doesn't actually have to respect it, and can more than likely poke him out of it. However, if they do respect it, it'll allow him to cover his bases so to speak, along with keeping pressure on p2.

I'm not sure of how you're juggling system works. I think you're using Mugen's default point system? If so, you just make it so that his sweep adds points so that it can't be combo'd from. This suggestion is more for when it's blocked. If he does connect with sweep, and try to cancel into anything else, it will just whiff.



Gonna DL the update now. Thanks for your hard work. :)

GTA

Re: Mario Mario by SeanAltly (and Jango) (Updated 10/18 with even more fixes)
#46  October 25, 2020, 10:48:35 PM
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This character is fantastic. After the SNK Mario, the Macho, Ryu-ish form and now the movie incarnation.
Never thought to see this character after long decade and complete silence.

Truly a character of 2020 (Sucks for a year, but it has some good stuff in it... Sometimes)