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Question about paying for MUGEN content. (Read 10995 times)

Started by Mugenman2, November 30, 2022, 11:47:25 PM
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Mugenman2

Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#1  November 30, 2022, 11:47:25 PM
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    • USA
Hello,
It's been a long time since I posted, but I just had a quick question regarding pay walls. I recently was watching a YouTube video that featured a very graphically remastered version of Suzaku Castle. A stage that is from the Street Fighters series. This rendition features an upscaled version of the stage, and added lighting/thunder effects and as well as rain. The stage obviously had a lot of work put into it and obviously it paid off because it looks amazing. The big issue, and this is where my question comes in, is that it is essentially locked behind a sort-of paywall. Now, the stage itself isn't specifically locked behind a paywall, but the website it is hosted on demands that all users pay before being allowed to view the links to the stage. It looks as though the creators of the website are trying to be discreet about essentially promoting piracy, because they claim the money specifically goes towards the upkeep of the website; and that the main creators put a lot of work into the stages they produce, and that it takes a lot of time, money, and effort to create for not only MUGEN, but the beautiful look of the site. Now, that is fine and dandy and all, but isn't it essentially piracy? The paywall explanation loosely sounds like a legal defense incase anything were to happen. The stages, and all other content featured on the pages, are the reason why people visit the site in the first place. The website is MUGEN oriented after all. I just feel as though it's quietly soliciting money for MUGEN content. The assets featured in most of the stages still belong to the company that made them. Gaming companies these days re-release their old games on newer consoles, so they are still making a profit off their copyrighted material. Using a street fighter stage as a base, and upscaling it and adding pretty effects, is still piracy isn't it? The video the stage was featured in even featured street fighter characters and other capcom based sprites. Just thought it was strange and decided to share my thoughts. I won't name where I found the cool looking stage to not start drama or whatever, but it's pretty easy to find online yourself.

EgyLynx

Re: Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#2  November 30, 2022, 11:58:22 PM
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  • ? Who?
What  the VEGETA?!
Look?

DeathScythe

Re: Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#3  December 01, 2022, 02:25:39 AM
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    • Brazil
    • crepa.neocities.org
Well, hard to tell without a propper look at the website. But as you described it, I think it falls under piracy / copyright, yes.
I mean, many people make mugen content that also takes a lot of time and effort but release them for free, it should be considered as a fan work, a hobby. And this "money is to keep the site up" story doesn't sound authentic to me, so yeah, I agree with you.

Zazamyon2

Re: Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#4  December 01, 2022, 09:43:29 AM
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    • https://blog.naver.com/PostList.naver?blogId=blood72&from=postList&categoryNo=159
To me, paywalling is when someone uploads somebody elses work (not their own creation) and tries to capitalize off it.
But If it is 100% original work (regardless of using existing assets or existing game sprites) I don't see an issue.

It's like a monetized youtube Mugen account.
You are forced to watch/skip an advert before watching a mugen fight between copyrighted characters e.g naruto vs one piece.
That channel gains ad revenue off of copyrighted material. Even though you didnt pay a dime, they still gain a profit. so its the same situation.

Or Mugen creators with patreon paywall accounts.
subscribe and donate to access their private JUS characters or whatever.
Some agree with it and some dont. Some of these creations are 100% original work, and some are just edits of existing work.
But ultimately they are characters from Shonen Jump copyrighted material right? so is it fan art or copyright infringement?

Then there's creators that edit other peoples characters and paywall those. Same thing.
Its more common than you think now. But usually their respective communities police themselves in this regard.

Personally I think as long as you are not hurting other people, scamming people, spreading misinformation, or stealing the hard work of another creator then do you. Ultimately Mugen is fan art and it will always exist within this grey area.

ShinZombie

Re: Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#5  December 01, 2022, 11:36:11 AM
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Selling mugen content was a taboo ... 20 years ago. But around that year the idea of selling fanart was also ridiculous and "evil"
Anyway,  culture has changed in 20 years, now it is common and accepted that an artist can sell fanart of copyrighted characters (patreon levels, doujins, image sets, fan games with parody names, etc.), and if MUGEN is considered fanart too then .. yolo. draw your conclusion.




Have a nice day!

Dr. Basara Kilnklein

Re: Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#6  December 01, 2022, 02:32:58 PM
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  • I will soon rule ze world, hahahaha!!
    • Chile
    • network.mugenguild.com/basara/

  • Online
Actually, all MUGEN content made is supposed to be free, paying for something you could see created by someone else (and even with resources from an actual game) is more like a scam for me, and probably that guy will see his paid stage leaked out there and reuploaded for free by someone else.

If you want to get some (legal) money with MUGEN is to commision stuff created by yourself. Creating sprites and/or coding a character are the most common forms to get money with this free hobby, but making a paywall with something like that stage is even illegal. However, companies established that MUGEN (and for extension IKEMEN) is a form of fanart and doesn't care about this, especially since they abandoned 2D sprites decades ago, so he won't get legal issues (unless it's from Nintendo, as they do now, I'm curious why they didn't sue MUGEN creators for use their characters yet XD)

DeathScythe

Re: Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#7  December 14, 2022, 02:19:33 AM
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    • Brazil
    • crepa.neocities.org
I didn't even read the whole thing and I know who you're talking about (who doesn't?), just keep distance from this person... I know how frustrating it is to see your work being used like that, unfortunately we can't do much when it comes to mugen or ikemen...

FeLo_Llop

Re: Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#8  December 14, 2022, 02:22:38 AM
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  • ¡Ni p*ta ni santa! ¡Digo!
Decided to erase the message in a rush. And yes, it's that "person".

I swear there was something cool here!!

Rabano

Re: Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#9  December 14, 2022, 03:04:03 AM
  • ***
    • Argentina
it was that guy? what a dissapointment, I liked his clips of combos and stuff.

I once asked him where he found a stage and he never replied, well he didn't even saw the message

kamui 2.0

Re: Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#10  December 16, 2022, 09:23:37 PM
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    • www.youtube.com/user/anderson505
since I remember snk and capcom allowed us to use their chars/stages as long as free

rgveda99

Re: Question about paying for MUGEN content.
#11  February 11, 2023, 02:03:44 AM
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    • Philippines
    • andypetines@gmail.com
Zazamyon2 said, December 01, 2022, 09:43:29 AM
To me, paywalling is when someone uploads somebody elses work (not their own creation) and tries to capitalize off it.
But If it is 100% original work (regardless of using existing assets or existing game sprites) I don't see an issue.

It's like a monetized youtube Mugen account.
You are forced to watch/skip an advert before watching a mugen fight between copyrighted characters e.g naruto vs one piece.
That channel gains ad revenue off of copyrighted material. Even though you didnt pay a dime, they still gain a profit. so its the same situation.

Or Mugen creators with patreon paywall accounts.
subscribe and donate to access their private JUS characters or whatever.
Some agree with it and some dont. Some of these creations are 100% original work, and some are just edits of existing work.
But ultimately they are characters from Shonen Jump copyrighted material right? so is it fan art or copyright infringement?

Then there's creators that edit other peoples characters and paywall those. Same thing.
Its more common than you think now. But usually their respective communities police themselves in this regard.

Personally I think as long as you are not hurting other people, scamming people, spreading misinformation, or stealing the hard work of another creator then do you. Ultimately Mugen is fan art and it will always exist within this grey area.


I am actually thinking of getting myself a pay wall. Most of the people personally DM'ing me on Twitter and my Discord server are people looking to get special favors/treatment such as "I want this move for this character" or "I want this gameplay for this project". And when I ask these people for something like a simple share on Facebook they always have a reason like "Oh, I don't do Facebook". There's even one trying to barter resources for a position.

There's less than a handful of them as of this writing but they've really affected my work for these projects. One of the main reasons why I am inactive in social media recently. I'll get busy soon though and back in action with my social media accounts. So I am expecting a new batch of self entitled fans in the future.
sailormoongalaxy said:
I had read on Wikimoon, and I found it grotesque it was so wrong.
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