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Jmorphman's WIP thread: Project S.H.I.N.(go): Shingo Beta out! (Read 2441264 times)

Started by Jmorphman, November 01, 2010, 09:13:43 pm
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Poll

Got a light?

This is the water
81 (25.2%)
And this is the well
77 (24%)
Drink full, and descend
33 (10.3%)
The horse is the white of the eye
37 (11.5%)
And the dark within
52 (16.2%)
This is the water
41 (12.8%)
And this is the well
0 (0%)
Drink full, and descend
0 (0%)
The horse is the white of the eye
0 (0%)
And the dark within
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 318

Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6201  August 06, 2020, 08:50:57 pm
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I didn't think of that with the throws, mainly because I thought SF3 Ken would have the kneegrab exclusively, but he doesn't have it at all o-o;
In SFIII Ken has access to all three throws, and while theoretically that could be done even with the SFA3 style throw controls (Zangief has like 3 or 4 different throws he can do even in A3, for instance), I didn't want to complicate things for just one mode. And since Normal and Master modes already use the pair of Jigoku Gurama and Tsukami Nage as their throws, I wanted to balance things and have SFIII mode use the two throws that Violent mode used, the pair of Seoi Nage and Jigoku Gurama.

Ah well. On the note of the EX moves, while I do honestly understand that point, Shin Akuma didn't get EX moves cause he's Shin Akuma: He had a higher damage output, the double air hadoukens and higher speed to offset his tanked health, so Shin Akuma didn't really need EX moves. Once again, Violent Ken doesn't have most of that. More recent P.o.t.S-styled renditions of Evil Ryu have EX moves nowadays, as well, such as mwryly's Evil Ryu and it doesn't make him too much better in the sense of breaking him.
Those aren't made by PotS, though. And certainly, if I were to have made those characters, I wouldn't have given them EX modes. That's my personal preference and it's the same reason I didn't give Violent Ken EX moves.

Edit: I'm only doing this again because these are characters you've specifically mentioned so now I have a proper frame of reference. Again, doing the spoiler only because it's four screenshots in 1280x960 resolution.

The characters on the ground in order of the screenshots taken are Warusaki's Evil Ryu, P.o.t.S Evil Ryu, P.o.t.S Shin Akuma and of course, your Violent Ken. Literally the only move I did was Asura's Saishuu Misogi, and compared the damage between the four characters. Not only does Violent Ken take more damage than Warusaki's Evil Ryu, who is based on CvS2 as you based his health off of that [though admittedly, I have no idea just how accurate Waru's Evil Ryu is to source] Violent Ken took considerably more damage than both P.o.t.S Evil Ryu and Shin Akuma, and he certainly doesn't have the same offsets to his low health and defense as the other two, especially Shin Akuma as I mentioned before. Even with everything you've mentioned before, it's all really just not enough to warrant such a massive blow to his defense like this, I'm sorry.
None of them are using the correct health values. Both Orochi Iori and Evil Ryu have a health of 10600 in CvS2 (the standard amount of health is 14400). In MUGEN terms, they have a health value of 736 (Shin Akuma has it much worse, with the equivalent of a 451 life value in MUGEN). Because you can't modify the life constant without also using a different constant file, people have to use a defense modifier that causes the character to take more damage than they'd normally take (instead of simply having less life to work with). In this case, Evil Ryu should take 135.8% more damage than normal.
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6202  August 06, 2020, 09:41:26 pm
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They probably did that because they realize MUGEN is a different game from CvS/CvS2 and took each separate character's play-styles, strengths and weaknesses into account with the perspective of having health deficit. The point I'm still trying to make is that that's another path you should really consider given the circumstances of everyone else just having characters that hit like tanks. If I wasn't playing on 200% health, that would just be an attack that would have killed Violent Ken outright and it honestly wouldn't be the fault of the player, which is something I think you should avoid: It's not fun to fight a character and lose with full knowledge that your loss isn't your fault. I'm only still making such a big deal out of this because in the grand scheme of it all, that really is just too much damage to for him to take on top of the other limitations he has.
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6203  August 06, 2020, 10:50:59 pm
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I dunno what single move does 736 damage at once, but that's such a massive amount of damage that I don't particularly feel worked up about V.Ken dying to it. It's not like anyone else would fair much better to that kind of attack.

Waru relies only on DefenceMulSet to change the Akuma's health when in Shin mode, but... that state controller is bugged. It doesn't work. And so his health just stays the same. Moreover, I'm not sure Waru or PotS had access to the 4 boss characters's health values back then: everyone else's health was pretty well known from the guidebook, but not the 4 bosses (because they're not playable in arcade).

But at the end of the day, this is my decision, not theirs. I'm pretty dead-set on his health value. I have gone over why I have decided on it and why I think it is fair for many, many days. I will not be changing that health value. It's fairly easy to modify it, and I even have comments above the LifeAdd that applies the extra damage to Violent and Master modes with values from PotS Evil Ryu and Master Ryu so that they can be swapped in place. This has been present even in the first beta!
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6204  August 06, 2020, 10:54:10 pm
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Classic Ken's Target Combo into MK Geri can go into his supers, unless I'm misreading what you're saying as far as that goes or if that's something you've already changed post-Beta. Even with all of that, it's not all that great to warrant such a massive wedge in his defense stat. I want to make this clear because even I feel like I've lost the point I'm making lol: I personally am not arguing against Violent Ken taking more damage in comparison to the other Kens, but the sheer level of extra damage he takes imo, is far too steep.

Spoiler: Spoilered because screenshots (click to see content)

The characters in those screenshots are Trololo's Nash, your Ken and Violent Ken, and mwryly's Evil Ryu, the latter of whom were hit with the same combo: Heavy Sonic Boom [as it's the slowest and actually allows me to chase it], jump-in Heavy Kick, close Heavy Punch, Judgement Saber. I play on 200% life and it still does that much damage to Violent Ken, in comparison to Classic Ken and Evil Ryu. Comparing with how much harder you have to try with Violent Ken to get damage as opposed to Classic Ken and even SF3 Ken, I just don't believe V.Ken taking that much extra damage is necessary.

Edit: Another thing to take into consideration is that you're very closely basing your Violent Ken on SvC: Chaos, where Ken in that game doesn't have the same tools your Ken does, and Violent Ken can also do one other thing yours can't do legitimately: With proper timing, you can hit the opponent with a Shinbu Messatsu right after a Kuzuryureppa in SvC: Chaos. Your Violent Ken can, too, due to how the moves work, but it's only possible in training mode or giving Violent Ken an additional two bars. No, I'm not asking you to do that =P

That kind of Method that you're talking PRØJECT.13, i've used on ADD004 on the Palette 3,6,9,12 Groove, but without Dreamcancel to Superart:Lv2/MaxSuperArt, instead to Superart:Lv3/Ultracombo, i add on every Single(not all Chars, when i'm trying adding on Jmorphs Kyo the AfterSchool-Costume by BlackHatterX) EX-Specials, and Superarts:Lv1 when the Grooves Max Mode activates with Superart:Lv2/MaxSuperArt is only on this Groove Disabled, and edited the Poweradd the Half/Quarter of the Powerlimit, to make an KOF:G3(wellknown KOF:WhoreXIII)-like Style, i'm gonna show an Video when the upload is complette.
Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 11:03:35 pm by NierUZMK94
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6205  August 06, 2020, 11:28:40 pm
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Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Quote
That kind of Method that you're talking PRØJECT.13, i've used on ADD004 on the Palette 3,6,9,12 Groove, but without Dreamcancel to Superart:Lv2/MaxSuperArt, instead to Superart:Lv3/Ultracombo, i add on every Single(not all Chars, when i'm trying adding on Jmorphs Kyo the AfterSchool-Costume by BlackHatterX) EX-Specials, and Superarts:Lv1 when the Grooves Max Mode activates with Superart:Lv2/MaxSuperArt is only on this Groove Disabled, and edited the Poweradd the Half/Quarter of the Powerlimit, to make an KOF:G3(wellknown KOF:WhoreXIII)-like Style, i'm gonna show an Video when the upload is complette.

What ?
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6206  August 06, 2020, 11:54:13 pm
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Spoiler: Ta-DAAA!!! (click to see content)
Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 12:06:45 am by NierUZMK94
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6207  August 07, 2020, 12:05:45 am
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is there any reason you are talking about irrevalent things in this topic? I dont recall anybody asking for anything like that
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6208  August 07, 2020, 12:08:53 am
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What_the_fuck_are_you_talking_about_Jesse.jpg
Nevermind, there's nothing I can do
Bet your life there's something killing you
It's a shame we have to die, my dear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time
What a way to go, but have no fear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time
It's a shame we have to disappear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time, this time, this time
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6209  August 08, 2020, 11:44:40 pm
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Got some more palettes for Violent Ken, based on some of Classic Ken's palettes from II Turbo. I don't know what Violent Ken's alt colors look like in USFII, so I kinda just winged [wung?] it.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

vyn

Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6210  August 11, 2020, 04:39:54 am
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Are you using those color separated sprites that let you sorta add a shirt?
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6211  August 11, 2020, 10:53:39 am
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No, he's not.
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6212  August 11, 2020, 08:18:33 pm
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You really should update these Midnight Bliss sprites, they aged horribly and look awful!
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6213  August 11, 2020, 10:24:17 pm
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^ This comment isn't very constructive.

The sprite is a KOF-to-CVS Translation from SVC Chaos for a move that is only used by a couple of characters out of possible hundreds, and shows on screen for a very VERY brief moment. The expectation that it should be more than what it is right now is a bit unreasonable.

If you really wanted to be constructive, you could offer an alternative sprite, or offer fixing the existing one.
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6214  August 12, 2020, 02:01:08 am
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Got some more palettes for Violent Ken, based on some of Classic Ken's palettes from II Turbo. I don't know what Violent Ken's alt colors look like in USFII, so I kinda just winged
thanks for the palettes!

Are you using those color separated sprites that let you sorta add a shirt?
Nah, I never got a hold of those sprites in time.

You really should update these Midnight Bliss sprites, they aged horribly and look awful!
You're being way to harsh to the guy who sprited them! The user that made them, what was his name... Haro? Or Hello? Maybe Heero? Oh, it was Hero. Well, he isn't even that active anymore so it's even ruder to say those things!
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6215  August 12, 2020, 07:13:09 am
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^ This comment isn't very constructive.

The sprite is a KOF-to-CVS Translation from SVC Chaos for a move that is only used by a couple of characters out of possible hundreds, and shows on screen for a very VERY brief moment. The expectation that it should be more than what it is right now is a bit unreasonable.

If you really wanted to be constructive, you could offer an alternative sprite, or offer fixing the existing one.

I did the sprite, walt.
You're being way to harsh to the guy who sprited them! The user that made them, what was his name... Haro? Or Hello? Maybe Heero? Oh, it was Hero. Well, he isn't even that active anymore so it's even ruder to say those things!

Last time I saw, you were reeeeally good at spriting, so I don't know why wouldn't you. There are like, 3 or 4 sprites?


Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6216  August 12, 2020, 08:15:24 am
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I'm not good at spriting at all; I'm really bad at it! At best I can sorta do some minor frankenspriting stuff, which obviously wouldn't be of much help here.
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6217  August 15, 2020, 03:57:52 pm
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Why all this fighting?

I'm not that active lately, so I don't know which sprites are those which needs a touch. Can u show them, please? I may take a fix if needed.
I swear there was something cool here!!
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6218  August 16, 2020, 05:25:59 pm
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Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6219  August 18, 2020, 05:38:24 pm
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OH SHIT :seius:

nothing to see here, move alonggg
Re: Jmorphman's WIP thread: Ken update BETA out!
#6220  August 27, 2020, 10:06:11 am
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the patch you provided for Victorys Sean doesnt work
youre a fucking meme. another borewood. REIWOOD. SHIP CONFIRMED.
I will force feed Dark Pit right into your ass if we ever play on wi fi.
i think this a dark souls of a mugen forums.
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