PotS said, January 29, 2022, 03:40:05 pmA couple new updates today.Lei-Lei:- Gets an early update because I didn't want her to keep crashing through people's floors. But it's more than thatDan:- Moved a few things around to make more sense. Overall should feel more polished- Has an experimental input buffer, so let me know if it breaks anything so I can add it to every characterI've had a change of heart regarding some things. I think everyone will have back rolls, but they will be a bit worse than the forward rolls. And I'm adding and even updating the hi-res sparks to everyone so see if you like them.Dan seems pretty good, though a few things:- Being able to charge Gadou Shokouken infinitely seems a bit too strong, even as a level 2.I think it should last about as long as charging something like Rugal's Kaiser Wave.- Premium Sign staying on the ground until it scrolls off-screen kind of clutters the screen. I think it should vanish on impact with the ground.- The white flashes from Chouhatsu Shinwa hurt my eyes, especially when you're able to taunt rapidly in order to build up meter. I know it can stun the opponent briefly now, but I still think a less aggressive color flash can accomplish the effect just as well.
TTTTTsd said, January 29, 2022, 04:30:53 pmFor all it's worth, if you ever want a nice page of frame data references, https://wiki.supercombo.gg/w/Capcom_vs_SNK_2/Ryu I believe the CVS2 wiki is in shape and displays just about everyone's data here?I've actually been using that one a lot, but for SF4 and 5 data. CvS2 was a great game, but lately I'm more interested in what Capcom learned with their fighting game revival.I like Mizuumi Wiki too.TTTTTsd said, January 29, 2022, 04:30:53 pmAs it turns out, your estimation on Ryu 2MP was only a frame off! Estimation is the right word since that's all I did back when I made Ryu, haha. Some things have been fixed since though.TTTTTsd said, January 29, 2022, 04:30:53 pmThat anecdote about SF4 and SF5 is so true tbh, moreso in the latter. SF5 is very focused in its design, a lot of its moves do very specific, VERY scienced out things, which I feel definitely is at odds with that classic 90s Capcom approach of like, a general purpose but not a narrow one, if that makes sense?It does. It's interesting how frame data became a big deal after 4.TTTTTsd said, January 29, 2022, 04:30:53 pmI'll get to looking at Dan in-depth soon but honestly he seems to tick all the boxes and I can't find anything really "off" or worth mentioning (which is good!)WF4123 said, January 29, 2022, 05:42:27 pmMan, this Dan update is surreal good.Thanks. DauntlessMonk7 said, January 29, 2022, 06:50:33 pmDan seems pretty good, though a few things:- Being able to charge Gadou Shokouken infinitely seems a bit too strong, even as a level 2.I think it should last about as long as charging something like Rugal's Kaiser Wave.I think those two are different beasts. I made Dan's charge have some use, but it's mostly a joke because you could charge it the entire round and all it does is go full screen.DauntlessMonk7 said, January 29, 2022, 06:50:33 pm- Premium Sign staying on the ground until it scrolls off-screen kind of clutters the screen. I think it should vanish on impact with the ground.I wanted to make it a lasting insult.DauntlessMonk7 said, January 29, 2022, 06:50:33 pm- The white flashes from Chouhatsu Shinwa hurt my eyes, especially when you're able to taunt rapidly in order to build up meter. I know it can stun the opponent briefly now, but I still think a less aggressive color flash can accomplish the effect just as well.That I agree with. I'll try to tone it down while still looking like a flash.
PotS said, January 29, 2022, 03:40:05 pmRagingRowen said, January 27, 2022, 08:29:46 pmOh, I'm also curious about Sakura's differences aswell, mainly the Dark Sakura mode which was a WIP iirc. I'm mainly curious if she'll get more unique supers like maybe getting a more proper SGS in contrast to the normal Mode's.WIP is too nice of a word. It was something I could never be bothered to finish. But it's finished now. One of the themes in these updates has been adding stuff that should've been there from the start.Also mode change is no longer a "secret" move, so she's quite fun.Question: have you considered adding a Lilith mode to Morrigan?
Hey POTS,I just signed in to thank you for these wonderful characters. Welcome back big dog. Your Guy is so much fun to play (as are all your characters). Can't wait to try Dan out!
Oh. my. Goodness. The legend lives again!!! Phantom of the Server welcome back! These updates are dabomb!!I have to ask, I know you're doing updates, but is there by chance room for some new chars in the future?
Dan:- 2LK has a lot of pushback! I feel like it could probably be given less given that as it stands with its hitbox and its current properties, it's hard to justify using it over 2MK because he can't really get low confirms with it anywho? - 5LK is a REALLY good normal. Like, really plus, really long reaching. Might benefit from a touch more recovery cause it seems abnormally good for a Dan normal haha.- LK Dankicks (214LK) feel.....really weird here. I guess it's a lot like Alpha 2 and CVS2, but I definitely feel it'd be really fun if they could be safe when spaced ala the newer SF games. HK Dankicks are as good as ever though, -4 so very hard to punish and reliable to confirm, just like A1.- In the vein of SFV, I propose that the randomly invincible Koryuken also ignore juggle rules so you can insert it at the end of any juggle with EX Dankick haha. It'd be fun~.Not a lot to say for Daniel here, he feels about right. I was gonna bring up the hitboxes, but I realize that they're balanced around your other characters hit and hurtboxes, and designed to be abjectly worse. I do appreciate his crossup being really easy to space and use though, jMK was about this good in Alpha 1 I wanna say and it was part of what made A1 Dan an explosive, but fun mid tier in that game. This Dan is a ton of fun though, Level 2 Super refreshing juggle effectively gives him a usable level 3 super if you spend another bar after for a full connect super, stuff like Gadouken > Shinkuu Gadouken > EX Dan Kicks in the corner is a ton of fun too....good work! I've always liked the approach to Dan where he's actually fun to play and not miserable to steer, but is still a bit weaker than the average character in noticeable ways. All I can ask for now is EX Premium Sign as a setplay move or something, but I feel like that's out of the scope of what Dan is (unless we consider SFV...)Ryu:- Noticed some more stuff while dinking around. HP Fireball's travel speed is REALLY similar to MP, I think it could stand to go a little faster to make farther confirms more reliable (Good old 2MK > Hadouken)- Evil Ryu's HP DP is Frame 2?! I....might suggest slowing it down a bit, it's technically impossible to safejump as it is, but I guess it's also close to source- Ryu's EX DP is a little strange. It has the 3 hits from E. Ryu's as opposed to being the 2 hit 2I/3S EX DP, can't really tell if it's an oversight or intentional tbh, but it does feel strange that Normal Ryu EX DP works like that.Just a couple of extra notes on Ryu. Also, something I've noted on all characters: if you superjump into the corner, it counts as a crossup? It's a bit weird, I usually solve this in fullgames I work on by specifying an extra 10-15 pixels of edge via a Width sctrl in the -2, but IDK what's actually causing this or if it's intended or not, but figured I should mention it.PotS said, January 29, 2022, 03:40:05 pmBy the way that move is half responsible for me adding the Stun system. If there's one thing fun about modern Evil Ryu/Kage it's the Ryusokyaku combos.Taking the time to respond to some stuff I missed on my comb through and....hell yeah. Vivid memories of watching Sako's Evil Ryu combos and how much stomps and cool links were involved, even before the stun! Red Focus enabled a TON of cool stuff, and it sort of cements SF4 Evil Ryu as the coolest incarnation of the character.....ever?PotS said, January 29, 2022, 07:24:08 pmI've actually been using that one a lot, but for SF4 and 5 data. CvS2 was a great game, but lately I'm more interested in what Capcom learned with their fighting game revival.I like Mizuumi Wiki too.Estimation is the right word since that's all I did back when I made Ryu, haha. Some things have been fixed since though.God, yeah, Mizuumi is wonderful, as is Dustloop. So many great resources out there now, such good tools to build understanding of concepts that sort of come abstractly with this genre. On the note of that estimation, that is seriously impressive, but you also definitely set a lot of standards back then so I guess it's not terribly surprising haha. The superfans are what keep this genre breathing, I think.
Thanks, everyone.Macaulyn97 said, January 29, 2022, 09:17:58 pmQuestion: have you considered adding a Lilith mode to Morrigan?Not really.Flowrellik said, January 30, 2022, 01:23:40 amOh. my. Goodness. The legend lives again!!! Phantom of the Server welcome back! These updates are dabomb!!I have to ask, I know you're doing updates, but is there by chance room for some new chars in the future?For the time being I just want to get everything (mostly) fixed.TTTTTsd said, January 30, 2022, 02:58:57 pmDan:- 2LK has a lot of pushback! I feel like it could probably be given less given that as it stands with its hitbox and its current properties, it's hard to justify using it over 2MK because he can't really get low confirms with it anywho?Nice catch. It had medium pushback by mistake.Quote- 5LK is a REALLY good normal. Like, really plus, really long reaching. Might benefit from a touch more recovery cause it seems abnormally good for a Dan normal haha.Fixed.Quote- LK Dankicks (214LK) feel.....really weird here. I guess it's a lot like Alpha 2 and CVS2, but I definitely feel it'd be really fun if they could be safe when spaced ala the newer SF games. HK Dankicks are as good as ever though, -4 so very hard to punish and reliable to confirm, just like A1.Yeah come to think of it those physics aren't right. I'll make it more accurate and maybe add a tocuh of SF4 there.Quote- In the vein of SFV, I propose that the randomly invincible Koryuken also ignore juggle rules so you can insert it at the end of any juggle with EX Dankick haha. It'd be fun~.I don't see why not. It is done.QuoteNot a lot to say for Daniel here, he feels about right. I was gonna bring up the hitboxes, but I realize that they're balanced around your other characters hit and hurtboxes, and designed to be abjectly worse.They weren't really balanced that way or meant to be worse, but just turned out like that. To be honest most of them could use hitbox updates, but I think Dan's get the job done. I didn't really get the hang of that until I made Charlie or so (and back then if you made a Clsn1 larger than the Clsn2 you were the devil ).QuoteThis Dan is a ton of fun though, Level 2 Super refreshing juggle effectively gives him a usable level 3 super if you spend another bar after for a full connect super, stuff like Gadouken > Shinkuu Gadouken > EX Dan Kicks in the corner is a ton of fun too....good work!My favourite is scHP xx Gadouken xx Shinkuu Gadouken xx Shoukouken, Tenchi Haouken QuoteRyu:- Noticed some more stuff while dinking around. HP Fireball's travel speed is REALLY similar to MP, I think it could stand to go a little faster to make farther confirms more reliable (Good old 2MK > Hadouken)The previous versions had faster fireballs but they feel too fast to me now. I think I'll leave that alone. They're the SFA speeds.Quote- Evil Ryu's HP DP is Frame 2?! I....might suggest slowing it down a bit, it's technically impossible to safejump as it is, but I guess it's also close to sourceYou are right again. But I hate you for opening a can of worms there. Changing the startup means changing how it combos from normals. Old Capcom's solution to this was to give it a massive hitbox in the stronger versions but I'm not fond of moves that hit telepathically, so I made Ryu move forward a bit if you combo into it.Quote- Ryu's EX DP is a little strange. It has the 3 hits from E. Ryu's as opposed to being the 2 hit 2I/3S EX DP, can't really tell if it's an oversight or intentional tbh, but it does feel strange that Normal Ryu EX DP works like that.Yeah it's Evil Ryu's Shoryuken pretty much and always been like that (trivia: in the first version he used the Shin Shoryuken arm for it). I don't know about making that one like the new games.QuoteAlso, something I've noted on all characters: if you superjump into the corner, it counts as a crossup? It's a bit weird, I usually solve this in fullgames I work on by specifying an extra 10-15 pixels of edge via a Width sctrl in the -2, but IDK what's actually causing this or if it's intended or not, but figured I should mention it.It's intentional. I stole the idea from SF4. I think it's fun, and balanced by the fact that you have to sacrifice the corner for that mixup.
Gameplay wise the only thing I noticed about Dan is that Chou Dankuu Kyaku can't be cancelled into from normals, but specials are fine.I'm also not keen on the lowered damage for Otoko Michi because I feel like the original damage was balanced out by you losing all your health.Lastly, I also noticed Kouryuu Rekka is listed as P instead of K in the Readme.In terms of suggestions, might I suggest adding the rare (Like the rare invincible Kouryuu Ken) SFV Gadouken? This version launches as a silly way of nerfing an infinite with the normal Gadouken (I'd also suggest buffing the recovery on the normal one to support this).Edit: Currently not keen on the Buffer since I struggle to, for example, go from HP to a LP Special (In this case, Kouryuu Ken) because of the button timing (Even with the slightest tap of HP).
PotS said, January 30, 2022, 04:56:47 pmMy favourite is scHP xx Gadouken xx Shinkuu Gadouken xx Shoukouken xx Tenchi Haouken I'm.....well, it's cool that you can finally combo into Tenchi Haouken, haha.PotS said, January 30, 2022, 04:56:47 pmYou are right again. But I hate you for opening a can of worms there. Changing the startup means changing how it combos from normals. Old Capcom's solution to this was to give it a massive hitbox in the stronger versions but I'm not fond of moves that hit telepathically, so I made Ryu move forward a bit if you combo into it.I think that's a good compromise, yeah. There will always be a little bit of telekinetic hitbox jank on DPs but minimizing it like the Alpha series did is a good idea....well, except for Shinryuken, but we don't talk about that (don't look at it, it's a nightmare)PotS said, January 30, 2022, 04:56:47 pmYeah it's Evil Ryu's Shoryuken pretty much and always been like that (trivia: in the first version he used the Shin Shoryuken arm for it). I don't know about making that one like the new games.I mean hey, if it works it works! Just throws my brain off but I'm too used to like, 2I/3S.PotS said, January 30, 2022, 04:56:47 pmIt's intentional. I stole the idea from SF4. I think it's fun, and balanced by the fact that you have to sacrifice the corner for that mixup.I appreciate that, at the very least, you have to superjump for it. Big issue I had was corner jump-ins not giving you that kinda choice but at least here it's a decision you can make.As always, I anticipate the next set of updates.
RagingRowen said, January 30, 2022, 05:20:23 pmGameplay wise the only thing I noticed about Dan is that Chou Dankuu Kyaku can't be cancelled into from normals, but specials are fine.That may be just the close hard punch, where I made a mistake.RagingRowen said, January 30, 2022, 05:20:23 pmI'm also not keen on the lowered damage for Otoko Michi because I feel like the original damage was balanced out by you losing all your health.I think it was a bit too strong. You have to keep in mind that the health sacrifice is a non issue later in the round. I buffed it a bit by making the health lost be the same as the damage done to the opponent.QuoteIn terms of suggestions, might I suggest adding the rare (Like the rare invincible Kouryuu Ken) SFV Gadouken? This version launches as a silly way of nerfing an infinite with the normal Gadouken (I'd also suggest buffing the recovery on the normal one to support this).That was a really neat way to solve a problem. But I'm not sure if/how to implement it yet. I thought about making it the EX Gadouken, but he has too many juggles already.If I make it random he'd have to lose the random Kouryuken or he'd be too weird to play as.QuoteEdit: Currently not keen on the Buffer since I struggle to, for example, go from HP to a LP Special (In this case, Kouryuu Ken) because of the button timing (Even with the slightest tap of HP).Thanks for pointing this out. I hate to spam updates, but this is kind of a big deal so please redownload the character for an early fix.TTTTTsd said, January 30, 2022, 05:23:59 pmI appreciate that, at the very least, you have to superjump for it. Big issue I had was corner jump-ins not giving you that kinda choice but at least here it's a decision you can make.Yeah, having the option to do it or not is the only reason I added it. If every jump did it it'd annoy me. Also I'm glad you mentioned the Dan Kicks because they feel a lot better with the correct velocities now.
RagingRowen said, January 30, 2022, 05:20:23 pmIn terms of suggestions, might I suggest adding the rare (Like the rare invincible Kouryuu Ken) SFV Gadouken? This version launches as a silly way of nerfing an infinite with the normal Gadouken (I'd also suggest buffing the recovery on the normal one to support this).POTS said, January 30, 2022, 10:20:13 pmThat was a really neat way to solve a problem. But I'm not sure if/how to implement it yet. I thought about making it the EX Gadouken, but he has too many juggles already.If I make it random he'd have to lose the random Kouryuken or he'd be too weird to play as.I personally think the knockdown Gadoken might work better as an alternate form of Gadoken that’s activated when comboed into, like Geese’s Reppuken in SVC Chaos. That might depend on how the Gadoken infinite works, though.
It's already been nearly a month now since your comeback, and I can still hardly believe it. Seriously, welcome back man!As far as the Stun system goes, it should be noted that Ikemen GO has a toggleable "universal stun" option in the engine that gives stun to every character, and that might conflict with any internal stun mechanics given to characters. Maybe you already caught on to this, as it doesn't seem Lei-Lei or Dan has stun, but just thought I'd let you know, just in case.EDIT: Speaking of Lei-Lei, if that aforementioned stun mechanic is enabled in Ikemen, then she can be "infinitely dizzied". Basically, she gets stunned, then you hit her once again while she's stunned... and she's stunned again, leading to the world's easiest infinite, which can be done by quite literally any character.
PotS said, January 29, 2022, 07:24:08 pmI've actually been using that one a lot, but for SF4 and 5 data. CvS2 was a great game, but lately I'm more interested in what Capcom learned with their fighting game revival.I like Mizuumi Wiki too.I like this idea. The revival was predominantly SF4 era stuff, and SF5 was no where, not even remotely as close to the influence that SF4 had. SF4 is a much better game imo.Back on topic, I wanted to ask. Since you are focusing on SF4 or SF5, will you ever consider giving Ryu an FADC (Focus Attack Dash Cancel)?Mainly because I think it would fit into your system quite nicely. No one in the MUGEN community has really dealt with that type of SF4 pressure yet. No one has had to deal with something close to Vanilla SF4 Sagat's FADC into Super/Ultra. No one has really dealt with Ryu's Shoryu FADC Shinkuu hadouken yet. We've mostly had CvS2 inspired creations out there, which is great too, but we could really diversify the types of matchups by introducing a FADC mechanics to your system.
DauntlessMonk7 said, February 02, 2022, 02:41:09 amI personally think the knockdown Gadoken might work better as an alternate form of Gadoken that’s activated when comboed into, like Geese’s Reppuken in SVC Chaos. That might depend on how the Gadoken infinite works, though.I think that'd be a nerf because Gadouken is his best super cancel, and knocking down would limit combos. Come to think of it, the "lucky" Gadouken is something that only makes sense in SF5, and only if you keep the infinite.Cyborg Sun said, February 06, 2022, 07:10:55 pmIt's already been nearly a month now since your comeback, and I can still hardly believe it. Seriously, welcome back man!Thanks. Cyborg Sun said, February 06, 2022, 07:10:55 pmAs far as the Stun system goes, it should be noted that Ikemen GO has a toggleable "universal stun" option in the engine that gives stun to every character, and that might conflict with any internal stun mechanics given to characters. Maybe you already caught on to this, as it doesn't seem Lei-Lei or Dan has stun, but just thought I'd let you know, just in case.They do have stun. You have to keep in mind that they're still Mugen characters at the end of the day. Maybe one day I'll return and make them Ikemen-exclusive, hehe, in which case I'd remove redundant things like that.Cyborg Sun said, February 06, 2022, 07:10:55 pmEDIT: Speaking of Lei-Lei, if that aforementioned stun mechanic is enabled in Ikemen, then she can be "infinitely dizzied". Basically, she gets stunned, then you hit her once again while she's stunned... and she's stunned again, leading to the world's easiest infinite, which can be done by quite literally any character.That's not the case because I opted to have the stun be inflicted on the opponent rather than be a handicap to the player, since it's the only way that makes sense to me. The only issue right now is that Ikemen does not keep track of the characters' own stun mechanics, so you can sometimes dizzy the opponent twice in a row. I think that might be fixed (in Ikemen) in the future since it must be an issue with the hundred other characters that also have a dizzy system. All it takes is resetting the universal stun if the character is using animation 5300 or something along those lines.extravagant said, February 06, 2022, 08:48:44 pmBack on topic, I wanted to ask. Since you are focusing on SF4 or SF5, will you ever consider giving Ryu an FADC (Focus Attack Dash Cancel)?While I meant what I said before, these characters weren't designed with Focus Attack in mind, and adding it now would mean rethinking many things, which at the moment I don't want to get into. I think FA would be interesting from an offensive perspective, but as for defense they can do (too) many things already.extravagant said, February 06, 2022, 08:48:44 pmWe've mostly had CvS2 inspired creations out there, which is great too, but we could really diversify the types of matchups by introducing a FADC mechanics to your system.That is something that surprised me coming back, because I thought SF4 and SF5 would've been a much bigger influence in the community than my work was.
PotS said, February 06, 2022, 09:00:55 pmThey do have stun. You have to keep in mind that they're still Mugen characters at the end of the day. Maybe one day I'll return and make them Ikemen-exclusive, hehe, in which case I'd remove redundant things like that.IKEMEN's dizzy is easily disabled via the Option menu; I usually leave it off, but some people use it.Then again, you could make a version for IKEMEN and one for MUGEN. I've just tried ZSS today and it's so damn pretty... Functions, condensed code...Not to mention the kind of Arms Race advances you could pull with Rare Akuma via RedirectID and the newer stuff.
PotS said, February 06, 2022, 09:00:55 pmCyborg Sun said, February 06, 2022, 07:10:55 pmAs far as the Stun system goes, it should be noted that Ikemen GO has a toggleable "universal stun" option in the engine that gives stun to every character, and that might conflict with any internal stun mechanics given to characters. Maybe you already caught on to this, as it doesn't seem Lei-Lei or Dan has stun, but just thought I'd let you know, just in case.They do have stun. You have to keep in mind that they're still Mugen characters at the end of the day. Maybe one day I'll return and make them Ikemen-exclusive, hehe, in which case I'd remove redundant things like that.Cyborg Sun said, February 06, 2022, 07:10:55 pmEDIT: Speaking of Lei-Lei, if that aforementioned stun mechanic is enabled in Ikemen, then she can be "infinitely dizzied". Basically, she gets stunned, then you hit her once again while she's stunned... and she's stunned again, leading to the world's easiest infinite, which can be done by quite literally any character.That's not the case because I opted to have the stun be inflicted on the opponent rather than be a handicap to the player, since it's the only way that makes sense to me. The only issue right now is that Ikemen does not keep track of the characters' own stun mechanics, so you can sometimes dizzy the opponent twice in a row. I think that might be fixed (in Ikemen) in the future since it must be an issue with the hundred other characters that also have a dizzy system. All it takes is resetting the universal stun if the character is using animation 5300 or something along those lines.Yeah, you're right, they are still MUGEN characters... for now, heh. Also, I had no idea how I thought those two didn't have the new stun system... guess I didn't try hard enough, lol.That thing with Lei-Lei is also only really an issue with that Ikemen-specific mechanic, it has nothing to do with how your characters do dizzying, so no worries there. Hopefully that's addressed by the engine devs.Now I found something with Gouki; When he gets hit by either the level 2 or level 3 Psycho Crusher supers from your Vega, he's hit once, then phases out of existence for a brief moment before landing. Seems like Gouki's missing some kind of gethit animation?
Hey so i know you're not a fan of config files as far as i can see in this thread, but will it's inclusion still considered in the near future? removing things like the stun would be nice since i'm personally not a fan of it in general
Lasombra Demon said, February 06, 2022, 09:14:55 pmIKEMEN's dizzy is easily disabled via the Option menu; I usually leave it off, but some people use it.I think the issue they have is disabling it in my characters, hehe.Lasombra Demon said, February 06, 2022, 09:14:55 pmThen again, you could make a version for IKEMEN and one for MUGEN. I've just tried ZSS today and it's so damn pretty... Functions, condensed code...I might just do that when everything is updated. For WinMugen as well, maybe.Cyborg Sun said, February 06, 2022, 10:26:09 pmNow I found something with Gouki; When he gets hit by either the level 2 or level 3 Psycho Crusher supers from your Vega, he's hit once, then phases out of existence for a brief moment before landing. Seems like Gouki's missing some kind of gethit animation?This bug is interesting because it shows us that Ikemen reads the air file differently from Mugen. I indeed made a typo in it, but it didn't create any problems in Mugen so I didn't notice.I was going to show you how to fix it because it was just erasing one line, but then realized I might as well just share the current version of the character.TriggerPull said, February 08, 2022, 09:07:54 amHey so i know you're not a fan of config files as far as i can see in this thread, but will it's inclusion still considered in the near future? removing things like the stun would be nice since i'm personally not a fan of it in generalIt's possible. The updates I've made would make that easier to implement, too. I kind of don't want to add a config file just to disable things, though. People who care will just open the coding files and disable what they don't want.Updates are going slower now because work picked back up in February. Anyway...Shin Gouki- Fixed or added little things here and thereSakura- This character was worse than I remembered. This update should make her feel more like herself
