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Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out) (Read 2575108 times)

Started by Iced, July 15, 2012, 03:54:44 AM
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3961  May 03, 2021, 09:56:36 PM
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And a Trailer. ^_^
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3962  May 20, 2021, 08:25:18 AM
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Saw someone share an article on Facebook regarding the status of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. which is no longer canon to the MCU. Apparently there's lots of articles covering this when googling.

https://screenrant.com/mcu-deny-agents-of-shield-disservice-darkhold-kree/

Quote
The ABC series has employed the Darkhold on several occasions and was the first MCU show to include it in the plot. Aida, an artificially intelligent life-model decoy who was corrupted by the powerful book, and Robbie Reyes, a mechanic bestowed with the power to transform into the demonic Ghost Rider, have all been involved in major storylines centering the Darkhold and its dangers. However, WandaVision’s version of the Darkhold, and the way it was used in the show, deviates greatly from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. WandaVision basically established a new canon, one that erases Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., fracturing the show’s connections to the MCU even further. 

It’s been confirmed the Darkhold in WandaVision is the MCU version of the book, which implies Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is no longer a part of the shared universe. This is frustrating for a number of reasons, primarily because S.H.I.E.L.D.’s storylines, characters, and history don’t get their due and aren’t referenced at all in the Disney+ series. It’s as though the new slate of MCU shows are taking things in an entirely new direction, one that largely ignores all of the series that came before it. Shows like Agent Carter and Runaways, both of which included storylines involving Dark Matter and the Darkhold, are effectively moot.

.........................

To ignore the show’s plots and all the development with regards to concepts and stories, involving aliens or otherwise, is a disservice to all the hard work it’s put in over the years. It’s also a disservice to fans of the show, who watched it diligently for seven years and appreciated all the effort and creativity the writers put into making even the most outlandish plots work. WandaVision and the remainder of Marvel’s Disney+ shows are rewriting the MCU’s history by starting over, thus sidestepping all the series that came before.

It stings knowing WandaVision could have referenced Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., connecting the two series through their use of the Darkhold. Instead, it blatantly snubs S.H.I.E.L.D. as though it never existed. .....................

There are also some news articles on the recasting of S.H.I.E.L.D. agents in Dr. Strange 2, Hawkeye and Secret Invasion. I'll take this with a grain of salt but it's most likely Quake since Chloe is doing Powerpuff Girls.

sailormoongalaxy said:
I had read on Wikimoon, and I found it grotesque it was so wrong.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3963  August 24, 2021, 05:40:58 AM
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sailormoongalaxy said:
I had read on Wikimoon, and I found it grotesque it was so wrong.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3964  August 24, 2021, 10:33:27 PM
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The rumor were real!!!
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3965  August 26, 2021, 09:29:13 AM
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The rumor were real!!!

I've been checking out some spoilers from Heavy Spoilers, Cosmic Wonder, Comics Explained, etc. and so far no one is talking about Ned being Hobgoblin. Heavy speculation is that pumpkin grenade is from William Dafoe's Green Goblin with most Youtubers hating the idea of Spidey 3 Green Goblin. Admittedly I do want to see Demogoblin but I think that's highly unlikely. Still crossing my fingers that Doc Ock is an alternate universe Doc Ock and not a disgruntled employee from Stark who was off screen from the last Spidey film. I'm prepared for the worst just in case they do another 'Quicksilver Bohner' bait with the 2 other Spideys. We did get a lot of easter eggs with Loki and the other Loki's.
sailormoongalaxy said:
I had read on Wikimoon, and I found it grotesque it was so wrong.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3966  August 26, 2021, 08:22:25 PM
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There is no way in hell that Ned is gonna be Hobgoblin; it barely made sense for the comics version (and was later retconned into him being brainwashed by the actual real Hobgoblin because it was such a dumb reveal), and the MCU version of Ned is so far removed from even that version (because he's basically Miles's friend Ganke).

The completely unhinged level of speculation each new MCU project generates is just utterly detached from any reality. Like for fuck's sake, there were people all over the internet going AH DOCTOR STRANGE IS SECRETLY MEPHISTO IN DISGUISE, because apparently he acts haughty and arrogant. And like... do you know what Doctor Strange's deal is? Come the fuck on.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3967  August 26, 2021, 10:45:00 PM
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Not to detract from the current MCU hype train speculation with the Spider-Man trailer, but I just recently got Disney+ so I saw the Loki series.  Just the one show, not sure if I'm jumping on the others yet but saw one episode of WandaVision and....it sure was odd.  But Loki's pretty good.

Not sure how intentional this is to the story going forward, but it feels very odd that none of the time manipulators in the various Marvel universes even know of this TVA though.  Considering the whole organization is run by basic bland humans with nightsticks and shock collars essentially, not even Marvel's encyclopedia of various superhuman aliens, and are prone enough to mistakes with their resets that they anticipate them happening.  Oh well.  Guess they weren't up for getting dressed up in Star Trek make-up for the background characters.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3968  August 26, 2021, 10:49:10 PM
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The fact that none of the time travel rules in Loki line up in the slightest with the the two movies it is a direct sequel to (Infinity War/Endgame is definitely one of the many problems with the Loki show. Emphasis on "one of the many". :-\
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3969  August 26, 2021, 11:00:12 PM
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To be completely fair on my end, I skipped a number of MCU films and am mostly just in it for the ride.  I'm not super stressed if and when they get something wrong like that.  Because yeah, I had also wondered about that, why the Marvel movies are for some reason trying to make multiple different time travel rules?  My ultimate guess is because they noticed the ones they came up with for Endgame doesn't make sense for old man Steve to be there.  I'm assuming some throwaway line in Loki season 2 or something will explain why he needed to be there for the Sacred Timeline or some junk.

Loki the show by itself though was just a fun time, regardless of its connection issues with what films came before.  Tom Hiddleston continues to be am amusing actor for the role.  I kinda legit forgot it was Owen Wilson playing Mobius because I just picture him in Wedding Crashers or Starsky & Hutch so thought he was good here as well.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3970  August 26, 2021, 11:10:25 PM
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Because yeah, I had also wondered about that, why the Marvel movies are for some reason trying to make multiple different time travel rules?  My ultimate guess is because they noticed the ones they came up with for Endgame doesn't make sense for old man Steve to be there.  I'm assuming some throwaway line in Loki season 2 or something will explain why he needed to be there for the Sacred Timeline or some junk.
I wouldn't count on this, because nobody at the helm of that movie seems to be clear on what exactly was going on with that last scene. The directors say that Captain America merely created an alternate timeline, as every other instance of time travel in the movie did. The writers (and maybe also Feige, I don't remember) seem to think that somehow, offscreen, he discovered a way to time travel within his same timeline, and also that he would gladly time travel to marry Peggy but to also keep his existence secret, and never ever try to prevent all of the horrible shit he knows is coming to his closest and dearest friends.

The stuff in Loki instead seems to be designed specifically to set up a major new villain who will appear in at least one movie for sure (but probably will be a continuing, Thanos-level threat across multiple ones). Which kinda sucks because the show no longer becomes a character study of Loki, it becomes an ad for Ant-Man 3.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3971  August 26, 2021, 11:40:32 PM
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All the shows area transition to something else, setting up something for a future movie or show. WandaVision sets up The Marvels and Dr Strange 2. F&WS sets up the Fury series and Cap 4. Loki sets up the next Thanos, Quantumania, and at least one future Avengers movie (not the next one but the one after). For what If, they hinted that some of the alternate characters could make it into future movies. Killmonger Black Panther is the obvious pick, but they hinted at Captain Carter too (if they can make a Hulk-like CGI version of the actress, because I don't expect her to buff up like Chris Evans holding on to a helicopter)

For Loki and the time ravel rules, that show didn't break the Avengers rules, Avengers broke the Avengers rule. The question of how Steve remained hidden in his alt timeline with Peggy and then managed to come back was already a problem that they just didn't address at all. Loki just claimed that "the TVA allowed it precisely because Steve didn't make any wave", confirming that yes, Steve did remain hidden and left everything play out as we saw it.
The TV show was already a problem with Loki's personality when they decided to 1. pick him out of the timeline a while before his entire character arc, 2. show him all of his own character development arc to get him up to speed and pretend that he's at the same point as when he died. It wasn't really a character study of anything, just an excuse to keep having Tom Hiddleston be Loki even though they killed him off.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 11:45:58 PM by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3972  August 27, 2021, 12:21:01 AM
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I mean...I thought that was what was interesting about this Loki?  Explicitly he's NOT the one that went for a redeeming death in at least the eyes of his brother, but one that wants to do good in some other manner with his insight on the now bigger picture at play.  It wasn't just negating the events of the opening to Infinity War with a Get Out Of Jail free card and TVA Loki gets a redemption arc in a different direction by seeing what happened to Main Loki.  I dunno, I liked it.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3973  August 27, 2021, 12:25:01 AM
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All the shows area transition to something else, setting up something for a future movie or show. WandaVision sets up The Marvels and Dr Strange 2. F&WS sets up the Fury series and Cap 4. Loki sets up the next Thanos, Quantumania, and at least one future Avengers movie (not the next one but the one after). For what If, they hinted that some of the alternate characters could make it into future movies. Killmonger Black Panther is the obvious pick, but they hinted at Captain Carter too (if they can make a Hulk-like CGI version of the actress, because I don't expect her to buff up like Chris Evans holding on to a helicopter)
I mean, yes, it's an issue with the MCU at large: it's so frequently setting things up for the next entry that the current entry gets the short shrift, but in practice, the protagonist(s) at least gets to complete whatever character arc they've been doing and have stuff (mostly) resolve. I would argue that this is very much not the case for the Loki show, which essentially dropped everything the show had been doing with its characters and leading to with its plotlines to instead spend 40 minutes introducing a new scary villain and underlining how big of a deal he is. Major cliffhangers like the one it ended on are normal for TV, don't get me wrong, but it was really frustrating to drop all the compelling stuff from the rest of the show in order to focus entirely on something else.

For Loki and the time ravel rules, that show didn't break the Avengers rules, Avengers broke the Avengers rule. The question of how Steve remained hidden in his alt timeline with Peggy and then managed to come back was already a problem that they just didn't address at all. Loki just claimed that "the TVA allowed it precisely because Steve didn't make any wave", confirming that yes, Steve did remain hidden and left everything play out as we saw it.
As far as I recall, the only mention of Endgame's time travel caper was in reference to the Avengers as a whole: nothing specifically about Steve's journey. From the interviews at the time of Endgame's release, Feige et. al. seemed to want to leave the exact answer ambiguous, and I doubt they'll ever circle back to confirm what really happened.

Leaving the Steve stuff all aside, Endgame repeatedly established the existence of multiple timelines/realities, and none of that lines up with Loki the TV show. The Avengers were apparently totally allowed to create a timeline where, shortly after the events of Avengers 2012, Captain America got beaten up by a doppleganger of himself, and the Ancient One gives away her Time gem to a giant green man from the future. The "problem" with this timeline, according to the Loki show, is that Loki was able to escape from captivity during all the ruckus and that is why they had to prune this (entire?) timeline.

Now, we can all probably bullshit up a solution to all this (perhaps every change to 2012 except for the Loki one was relatively minor and events [somehow] happened exactly the way they did originally so this timeline never created a different version of Kang who would pose a threat to the multiverse except wait there'd still be two Kangs and that's apparently the problem so I actually don't know a solution to all this lol), but it's never actually addressed or explained in the Loki show itself, and it sticks out like a sore thumb. Both Endgame and Loki have explained their time travel rules so poorly and confusingly that it's legitimately difficult to understand what exactly is supposed to be going on.

The TV show was already a problem with Loki's personality when they decided to 1. pick him out of the timeline a while before his entire character arc, 2. show him all of his own character development arc to get him up to speed and pretend that he's at the same point as when he died. It wasn't really a character study of anything, just an excuse to keep having Tom Hiddleston be Loki even though they killed him off.
Yeah that stuff sucks too, he's just straightforwardly post Thor 3 heroic Loki now and it would've be so much more fun if he was still totally villanous.

So far I think WandaVision is by far the best of the shows, even though it fumbles the ending (then again, you can count the number of MCU entries that haven't fumbled the entry with one hand). Falcon & Winter Soldier is sadly the worst of the lot by a fair margin, which sucks because it has some good stuff in it.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3974  August 27, 2021, 12:58:22 AM
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As far as I recall, the only mention of Endgame's time travel caper was in reference to the Avengers as a whole: nothing specifically about Steve's journey. From the interviews at the time of Endgame's release, Feige et. al. seemed to want to leave the exact answer ambiguous, and I doubt they'll ever circle back to confirm what really happened.
They didn't directly say they were okay with Cap doing what he did, but the fact that they didn't erase his timeline the moment he danced with Peggy specifically means that timeline didn't make any big change to end in a nexus event, therefor Cap didn't change anything from the "sacred timeline". And the Avengers going back in time to pick up the stones was specifically part of the sacred timeline, is what they said in episode 1.
Now, we can all probably bullshit up a solution to all this (perhaps every change to 2012 except for the Loki one was relatively minor and events [somehow] happened exactly the way they did originally so this timeline never created a different version of Kang who would pose a threat to the multiverse except wait there'd still be two Kangs and that's apparently the problem so I actually don't know a solution to all this lol), but it's never actually addressed or explained in the Loki show itself, and it sticks out like a sore thumb. Both Endgame and Loki have explained their time travel rules so poorly and confusingly that it's legitimately difficult to understand what exactly is supposed to be going on.
No, that's not quite right. He Who Remains is picking his sacred timeline to make sure that there's no multiverse war, that only means he needs a timeline where Kang doesn't start hopping universes. He can have multiple universes with slight differences, as long as all events that can influence the birth of Kang happen the same way, and give a Kang that doesn't go multiverse hopping. The sacred timeline isn't a single timeline and nothing else, we already know there can be multiple lines as long as the differences are minor and events happen the same way. There are a bunch of parallel timelines, some of them can have a Loki that looks different, some of them can probably have a different person put on the same superhero mantle, as long as he does the exact same things as the sacred timeline, it's fine.
This isn't explicitly said, but the show clearly gives us different versions of the same "character" (role) and yet they only say that the nexus event that got them pruned is a specific action that changed the course of events, not the fact that Loki looks different or from a different era. Sylvie is the only exception where they refused to say why she was pruned, but it wasn't because she was a girl ; either they come back to it on season 2, or they just say that there was no nexus event, He Who Remains just marked her as a target so she could do everything she does later on, because that's what He Who Remains wanted. (he's almost certainly the reason they get picked out of Lamentis, there's no way them kissing just before dying would cause such a big nexus event)
The Kirby Loki clearly doesn't come from the same era as MCU Loki, but he only got pruned the moment he did something different that affected things, and only at the end of his lifespan (in four-digit number of years), not because he had a different fashion sense. Even the Asgard he recreates doesn't quite look like the one we know, meaning his timeline already had an Asgard with a different design since long before him, and that wasn't a nexus event.

There's even Loki as an alligator who only got pruned for one specific reason which wasn't that he was an alligator. They don't say anything about him, but it seems to suggest that mayyyyybe there can be a world where Asgardians are a species that look like alligators, as long as they follow the same course of events that result in a Kang that doesn't destroy the multiverse ?? Why not.
And then there's B...oisterous Loki who claims he was pruned because he killed the Avengers, not because he was B...oisterous.

Leaving the Steve stuff all aside, Endgame repeatedly established the existence of multiple timelines/realities, and none of that lines up with Loki the TV show.  The Avengers were apparently totally allowed to create a timeline where, shortly after the events of Avengers 2012, Captain America got beaten up by a doppleganger of himself, and the Ancient One gives away her Time gem to a giant green man from the future. The "problem" with this timeline, according to the Loki show, is that Loki was able to escape from captivity during all the ruckus and that is why they had to prune this (entire?) timeline.
I don't think it breaks anything. Loki does say timelines exist, the TVA just prunes those where events change too much. In fact, they pruned the one where Loki picks up the Tesseract.
If he hadn't done that and Tony had managed to pick it up, and assuming Steve would still have returned it later, then there's no issue with that timeline : even if there were 2 caps fighting each other at one point, everything else would have carried on to follow the same events as the sacred timeline presumably. As long as things return to that sacred sequence of events (the other Cap thought he was fighting the escaping Loki anyway), then the TVA doesn't prune anything, they only prune things where there's a domino effect that creates a nexus. Since the show runners are the ones that decide if 2 Caps fighting does or doesn't result in a nexus, it's easy to assume that as long as things return to normal with no lasting effect, then nothing is pruned.
Present Cap telling Past Cap that Bucky is alive might have resulted in a Nexus event further down the line, though, still resulting in this timeline getting pruned. Or not. We don't know.
For the Ancient One bit.... We can presume that Steve returns the stone immediately after Bruce gets it, and that happens a little before Loki picks up the Tesseract. So that timeline does end up getting pruned, yes, but it's unrelated to the Ancient One giving out the Time stone, and it's a bit later. It's also because of Loki's actions, and not because of the Avengers - exactly as the TVA says right off the bat in episode 1.

Yeah that stuff sucks too, he's just straightforwardly post Thor 3 heroic Loki now and it would've be so much more fun if he was still totally villanous.
To be completely fair, I think they did that just because they don't want to do the same thing. They shelved the infinity stones in Loki specifically to tell us "okay, we did that, now it's over and we're moving on to something else, you won't see the stones as a plot point again". They didn't want to do phase 1 mean Loki because they were already done with that. They barely pretended that TVA Loki was only doing all of this to take control of the TVA like he's still bad, but they don't do anything with it.
I just wish good Loki was as competent as bad Loki when he's going around bitchslapping SHIELD agents across the room with his godly physical strength AND still smart enough to trick everyone rather than be the butt of all the jokes, but hey. At least he's smart enough to show the "fault" in the TVA's system : you can do whatever you want as long as you don't affect the timeline, like hiding in an event where everything is destroyed.

By the way, something I really liked about Kirby Loki is that back when Infinity War came out, people were theorizing that Loki only pretended to be dead, and Feige and Hiddleston heard that theory and found it cool enough to include it in this Kirby Loki's plot. They're telling us, you wanted to know if Loki was only pretending to be dead ? Well, this is what would have happened if that theory was true : Loki would have secluded himself for thousands of years and only come out when he was lonely, but that gets his timeline pruned.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 01:51:22 AM by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3975  August 27, 2021, 04:18:09 AM
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They didn't directly say they were okay with Cap doing what he did, but the fact that they didn't erase his timeline the moment he danced with Peggy specifically means that timeline didn't make any big change to end in a nexus event, therefor Cap didn't change anything from the "sacred timeline". And the Avengers going back in time to pick up the stones was specifically part of the sacred timeline, is what they said in episode 1.
I guess that just brings things back to the original problem of Endgame's ending, which is that if the screenwriters are right, that Steve magically discovered a new method of time travel heretofore unmentioned (or somehow knew all the rules the TVA invented) and went back in time and refused to improve the world at all... well like shit, that might be a bigger disservice to the character of Captain America than anything the DC movies ever did to their characters.

No, that's not quite right. He Who Remains is picking his sacred timeline to make sure that there's no multiverse war, that only means he needs a timeline where Kang doesn't start hopping universes. He can have multiple universes with slight differences, as long as all events that can influence the birth of Kang happen the same way, and give a Kang that doesn't go multiverse hopping. The sacred timeline isn't a single timeline and nothing else, we already know there can be multiple lines as long as the differences are minor and events happen the same way. There are a bunch of parallel timelines, some of them can have a Loki that looks different, some of them can probably have a different person put on the same superhero mantle, as long as he does the exact same things as the sacred timeline, it's fine.
This isn't explicitly said, but the show clearly gives us different versions of the same "character" (role) and yet they only say that the nexus event that got them pruned is a specific action that changed the course of events, not the fact that Loki looks different or from a different era. Sylvie is the only exception where they refused to say why she was pruned, but it wasn't because she was a girl ; either they come back to it on season 2, or they just say that there was no nexus event, He Who Remains just marked her as a target so she could do everything she does later on, because that's what He Who Remains wanted. (he's almost certainly the reason they get picked out of Lamentis, there's no way them kissing just before dying would cause such a big nexus event)
I think the fundamental issue here is that not only have we all collectively put way, way, way more thought into this shit than the creators of the Loki show have, I think even individually we've put more thought into it than they did throughout the entire conception and production of the show. They spent quite a lot of time explaining the rules of time travel while simultaneously not really conveying anything; from the big Miss Minutes speech to the long ass Kang monologue.

Because none of this stuff described above has been even slightly communicated by the show, IMO. And it would all ultimately make all of this run entirely off author fiat: there are some valid timelines and some invalid timelines, decided entirely by fiat. Some instances of changes due to time travel are "supposed" to happen and don't cause Nexus events, but other changes do causes Nexus events and are therefore not "supposed" to happen.

I don't think it breaks anything. Loki does say timelines exist, the TVA just prunes those where events change too much. In fact, they pruned the one where Loki picks up the Tesseract.
If he hadn't done that and Tony had managed to pick it up, and assuming Steve would still have returned it later, then there's no issue with that timeline : even if there were 2 caps fighting each other at one point, everything else would have carried on to follow the same events as the sacred timeline presumably. As long as things return to that sacred sequence of events (the other Cap thought he was fighting the escaping Loki anyway), then the TVA doesn't prune anything, they only prune things where there's a domino effect that creates a nexus. Since the show runners are the ones that decide if 2 Caps fighting does or doesn't result in a nexus, it's easy to assume that as long as things return to normal with no lasting effect, then nothing is pruned.
Present Cap telling Past Cap that Bucky is alive might have resulted in a Nexus event further down the line, though, still resulting in this timeline getting pruned. Or not. We don't know.
For the Ancient One bit.... We can presume that Steve returns the stone immediately after Bruce gets it, and that happens a little before Loki picks up the Tesseract. So that timeline does end up getting pruned, yes, but it's unrelated to the Ancient One giving out the Time stone, and it's a bit later. It's also because of Loki's actions, and not because of the Avengers - exactly as the TVA says right off the bat in episode 1.
The Loki show suggests—by dint of declaring all the Endgame time travel totally hunky dory (aside from Loki escaping)—that the Avengers traveling back to 2014 and indirectly causing Thanos and his army to completely vanish from existence never ended up causing a nexus event... somehow. Despite at bare minimum erasing the events of the Guardians of the Galaxy movie and more importantly Infinity War/Endgame. But at the same time, traveling back to a random Renaissance Fair immediately creates a nexus event that requires that timeline to be pruned.

It's not very satisfying from a narrative or emotional level, and while that wouldn't be that big of a problem in say, a single issue of a comic book, it does become a real, fundamental issue when the entire show revolves around time travel!

To be completely fair, I think they did that just because they don't want to do the same thing. They shelved the infinity stones in Loki specifically to tell us "okay, we did that, now it's over and we're moving on to something else, you won't see the stones as a plot point again". They didn't want to do phase 1 mean Loki because they were already done with that. They barely pretended that TVA Loki was only doing all of this to take control of the TVA like he's still bad, but they don't do anything with it.
They probably could've BS'd a thing with that "relieve past events" bit of tech they had, and used it to force 2012-Loki to personally experience all of the stuff the Loki who died in Endgame did. Like, literal rapid fire character development. Sure, it'd be a real cop-out, but it's not like what happened in the actual show was any better.

... actually, it would honestly make sense for Moebius to do that to him. He wanted a cooperative Loki to catch Sylvie, so why not mold the Loki he has into the one who was basically reformed? And maybe you could do something cool where Moebius accidentally leaves him in the past-reliever for a couple loops? Like what would Loki look like if he had to experience Thor 2, Thor 3, and Infinity War over and over for several loops? That'd be kinda cool maybe.
Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 04:25:31 AM by Jmorphman
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3976  August 27, 2021, 07:21:31 AM
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The completely unhinged level of speculation each new MCU project generates is just utterly detached from any reality. Like for fuck's sake, there were people all over the internet going AH DOCTOR STRANGE IS SECRETLY MEPHISTO IN DISGUISE, because apparently he acts haughty and arrogant. And like... do you know what Doctor Strange's deal is? Come the fuck on.

LOL. I just watched a speculation video of Comics Explained who is probably controlling Dr. Strange because he seems cheerful in the trailer. It's the usual suspects with Nightmare, Mephisto, Wanda and even mentioned Prof. X. At least we are getting Netflix Daredevil.

Also everyone forgot about Shang Chi. LOL. I do want to watch it only to see a proper Mandarin and not that fake one in Ironman.
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I had read on Wikimoon, and I found it grotesque it was so wrong.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3977  August 27, 2021, 07:49:23 AM
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3978  August 27, 2021, 08:38:25 AM
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Because none of this stuff described above has been even slightly communicated by the show, IMO. And it would all ultimately make all of this run entirely off author fiat: there are some valid timelines and some invalid timelines, decided entirely by fiat. Some instances of changes due to time travel are "supposed" to happen and don't cause Nexus events, but other changes do causes Nexus events and are therefore not "supposed" to happen.
Yeah, it's literally He Who Remains arbitrarily deciding "this is okay, this leads to a different Kang so I'm cutting it off" etc. and we are to believe that "he just knows". It was the same feeling in IW/Endgame when Strange said "I've literally looked at 14 million futures, only one works" and we get the events of the movies, we are told that this is the only way that works therefor anything else we can think of would not have worked because that's what the writers decided was the only thing that was allowed to happen. That pissed me off too.
But then again, that was the entire explanation for the TVA : there are 3 judges who decide what the sacred timeline can be and they are the ones who know what's okay and what's a nexus event. (another thing that pisses me off with Mobius, the sacred timeline is the one that says Loki has to be a villain, and Mobius is being a total asshole hating on Loki for being a villain even though they kill him whenever he wants to do something they don't like)

I wouldn't say the fans put more thoughts into it than them though. There's a piece of concept art for the castle in Loki where HWR has an Iron Man helmet on a shelf, and his tech is similar to Iron Man's, suggesting that Kang built off his tech out of Iron Man's, meaning he needed Endgame to happen like that, stuff like that. They did go pretty deep on it all.
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Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 08:49:03 AM by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3979  August 27, 2021, 09:44:05 AM
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Time travel stuff is always gonna be very hard to "sell" and justify, especially the rules part. But I think there's a good way of delivering all those rules and a bad way, and the MCU so far has fallen squarely on the latter, unfortunately.

Also I had no idea about the Iron Man stuff... that could also maybe be a dual reference that also is linking things to Young Avengers (because of Iron Lad). Seems pretty clear we're going in that direction, at least.

With the Loki show, they've now had every original member of the team show up in the MCU (in some form), and they've also got the most iconic member of the Gillen/McKelvie team showing up in Doctor Strange 2 soon. Heck, they even had a Kid Loki show up!

LOL. I just watched a speculation video of Comics Explained who is probably controlling Dr. Strange because he seems cheerful in the trailer. It's the usual suspects with Nightmare, Mephisto, Wanda and even mentioned Prof. X. At least we are getting Netflix Daredevil.
I don't know what everyone's obsession with having Mephisto being revealed as the secret villain! He works best in small doses (where he can be incredible effective), but I just can't imagine a movie or TV show structured around him as the lead villain.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#3980  August 27, 2021, 12:49:09 PM
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What makes you think that?

Old and new rumors/news. It would suck if they hype this up for nothing. I mean it's been planned by Marvel to have the Netflix characters move over to MCU. People would lose interest if they hold off these characters a few more years.

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/daredevil-charlie-cox-scenes-spider-man-3-tom-holland/
Quote
As rumors swirled around of Spider-Man 3 casting Daredevil actor Charlie Cox to reprise his role from the Netflix series, ComicBook.com has learned that the actor was indeed on the set for the Marvel Studios movie. Cox is expected to be playing Matt Murdock in the film alongside Tom Holland's Peter Parker, though at this point it is unclear if it will be the same version of Daredevil than many fans know and love from the Defenders series on Netflix or if it's some sort of multiversal reboot. Considering the inclusion of Benedict Cumberbatch as Doctor Strange, it's possible that the Marvel Cinematic Universe will be making major changes to Cox's Daredevil in the future.

https://www.newsweek.com/spider-man-charlie-cox-daredevil-new-no-way-home-trailer-1622378
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Where Was Charlie Cox in the Spider-Man Trailer?
Although it's only the teaser trailer, there's a lot of information given about the plot and the set-pieces involved in the new movie.

One scene that seems to take place in an interrogation room peaked the interest of some viewers who think they spotted some familiar forearms.


I don't know what everyone's obsession with having Mephisto being revealed as the secret villain! He works best in small doses (where he can be incredible effective), but I just can't imagine a movie or TV show structured around him as the lead villain.

He's pretty much a generic 'deal with the devil' trope. I myself am getting tired of hearing Mephisto in MCU especially when a certain country has so much control on Disney's censorship even with the whole fake/forced John Cena apology.
sailormoongalaxy said:
I had read on Wikimoon, and I found it grotesque it was so wrong.