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Poll: Which engine version do you use the most? (Read 56185 times)

Started by PotS, June 15, 2022, 05:42:49 pm
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Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#1  June 15, 2022, 05:42:49 pm
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Vote or see the results here.

So I've been running this poll in my signature for a few weeks and I thought I might as well put it up in a thread for future reference, since such a poll hasn't been run in a while. The results surprised me a bit, even if only a few people voted.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.
Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 05:47:14 pm by PotS
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#2  June 15, 2022, 05:48:10 pm
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I missed this, I cast me vote rightaway though :)
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Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#3  June 15, 2022, 06:05:36 pm
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I am one of the two that voted dos engine :P dos engine seldom frustrated me where i was having fun back in the dos era, i used dxwho method to play dos engine until i changed my pc recentely

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Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#4  June 15, 2022, 06:28:38 pm
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Vote or see the results here.

So I've been running this poll in my signature for a few weeks and I thought I might as well put it up in a thread for future reference, since such a poll hasn't been run in a while. The results surprised me a bit, even if only a few people voted.

I doubt those results are anywhere close to accurate. Majority use 1.0 and a good number have switched to 1.1. Ikemen is now getting popular but nowhere close to 1.0 and 1.1 popularity. Ikemen is definitely the future though just not at this moment.
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#5  June 15, 2022, 06:31:59 pm
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Yeah I think you're right. Perhaps a better assessment is just searching YouTube.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#6  June 15, 2022, 07:31:12 pm
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Well, I really liked Ikemen Go.
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#7  June 15, 2022, 09:49:38 pm
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I tend to play Mugen 1.1 usually, but over the last year I've been jumping a lot over to Ikemen Go. So, it's usually a mix between them both, depends on the mood. Ikemen Go is the best I think, but I hope it's evolution with qualities of life keeps improving, then there will be less reason to go back to normal mugen.
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Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#8  June 15, 2022, 09:56:05 pm
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I am on Mugen 1.1 till this day and haven't had problems with it. People say Ikeman go is good but until becomes more user friendly I will stick to Mugen 1.1 since it's much simpler remapping the buttons on your controller compared to Ikeman.
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#9  June 15, 2022, 10:52:57 pm
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I still opting for WinMugen, but recently my Windows 10 crashes it a lot so I can't use it anymore for more than a couple of battles without a crash, so I've to move to 1.0... I hate there's no other program like MWC to configuring MUGEN as I wanted, but there's nothing I can do about that u_u

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Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#10  June 15, 2022, 11:09:59 pm
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Mugen 1.1b :fuuu:

2Dee4ever got me thinking about ikemen :idea2:

When I completed my edited screenpacks, I'll try to convert them in ikemen :speechless:

It's going to be GREAT!! But now I have A LOT of learning to do. That's why I'm currently using Mugen 1.1b :book:



What engine you use, Phantom? :huh2:
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Last Edit: June 17, 2022, 03:23:23 am by Emerie The G.O.A.T
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#11  June 19, 2022, 05:05:39 pm
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I have not switched to Ikemen yet for several reasons but for what I want to do, just jump in smash a few heads from time to time Mugen 1.1 is perfectly fine for me.

I will probably switch to Ikemen at one point but I am not sure when.
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#12  June 19, 2022, 05:39:27 pm
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1.1 because makes everything about graphics so much easy and clean.

That said, didn't really had much time with 1.0 (a month or so?) to notice other differences asides from running great at 1280x720
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#13  June 19, 2022, 05:44:47 pm
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Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#14  June 19, 2022, 05:49:05 pm
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What engine you use, Phantom? :huh2:
1.0 up until recently. Now I'm exploring Ikemen Go. It's a tough choice because I know that if I make things for Ikemen then less people will play with them, but at the same time if everyone keeps doing things for Mugen we can never move forward.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#15  June 19, 2022, 07:43:23 pm
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With Ikemen for me personally, im most excited about the new universal buffer system that Gacel is working on last time I spoke to him.

Hopefully when that comes out and is ironed out ofc, ill prob switch.
I could care less about the fancy menus, screens, online, etc, though setting up arcade per char is cool, also having multiple version of chars in 1 slot.

One thing also to take into consideration, Ikemen has higher system requirements than mugen from my experience at least, so its going to take time for everyone to switch.

I fully agree that Ikemen is the future though, and I feel that most of its issues per say are tied to staying compatible with mugen, a good example would be the shit inputs.
Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 07:48:29 pm by PeXXeR
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#16  June 19, 2022, 08:00:05 pm
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Actually the inputs are a separate matter and as it stands Mugen's input parser is still better than Ikemen's. I'm sure that's about to change though.

The future will be interesting because there will be Mugen, Ikemen (Go), Mugenext and probably other engines, and developers will have to pick one (or stay with Mugen and pass on all the new features).
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#17  June 19, 2022, 08:28:13 pm
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1.0 up until recently. Now I'm exploring Ikemen Go. It's a tough choice because I know that if I make things for Ikemen then less people will play with them, but at the same time if everyone keeps doing things for Mugen we can never move forward.

Type Shit :laugh3:

I never tried ikemen :fuuu:
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Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#18  June 20, 2022, 10:06:19 am
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Actually the inputs are a separate matter and as it stands Mugen's input parser is still better than Ikemen's. I'm sure that's about to change though.

The future will be interesting because there will be Mugen, Ikemen (Go), Mugenext and probably other engines, and developers will have to pick one (or stay with Mugen and pass on all the new features).

Last I spoke to Gacel, he mentioned that he is working on fixing the inputs, me and my pals that have been playing fighting games for 20 years immediately noticed the difference when people started using Explod and Tiny buffering when we play locally.
Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 10:09:22 am by PeXXeR
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#19  July 02, 2022, 07:54:45 pm
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There is such a thing called Turtlewax, aka JZ & Vans deep buffering system, rewritten specifically for IKEMEN GO. The zss version was rewritten by Jesuszilla and the lua version was more recently remade by kamekaze. Both are which are very good, and fix double press issues. Doing akuma's ashura senkuu has never felt easier!

The great part about this deep buffering system exclusively for IKEMEN GO, is that you can apply it simply very easily to any character. It no longer looks like a jumbled mess like it does in MUGEN.

Code:
[State -1, Hadouken]
type = ChangeState
value = 1000
triggerall = !AIlevelF
triggerall = Map(QCF)
triggerall = Map(a)||Map(b)||Map(c) || Map(r_a)|| Map(r_b)|| Map(r_c)
triggerAll = power >= 500 && var(20) <= 60
trigger1 = ctrl || StateNo = 40 || StateNo = 52 || (StateNo = [100,101])
trigger2 = var(6)

With how simple it is to implement these command buffers, you could take older works like Warusaki3's stuff or even other Japanese creators work and very easily implement the new a better command buffers, without needing to do the insane shitload amount of work you would have to do in MJGEN.

Also, if someone is using mostly stuff from Jmorphman/Karma C type of work, they already got explodsive buffer, so there's no need to use the default ikemen  input system.

MUGEN is still more popular due to how long it has been around, and because many MUGEN users are usually content with the lack of online fight capabilities (not everyone can use parsec). IKEMEN GO on the other hand has a growing fighting player base which is good, due to how easy it is to get matchmaking done.
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Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#20  July 02, 2022, 10:03:05 pm
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I think people should wait and see what Ikemen Go's buffer ends up like being before venturing into modifying existing Mugen characters. There's a few basic features planned that by themselves will already make it better than Mugen's.
I mean, I'll be using mine in my chars regardless, but still.

There is such a thing called Turtlewax, aka JZ & Vans deep buffering system, rewritten specifically for IKEMEN GO. The zss version was rewritten by Jesuszilla and the lua version was more recently remade by kamekaze. Both are which are very good, and fix double press issues. Doing akuma's ashura senkuu has never felt easier!
I've heard about Turtlewax several times but didn't know the history behind it. Thanks for the intro.

Quote
triggerall = Map(QCF)
triggerall = Map(a)||Map(b)||Map(c) || Map(r_a)|| Map(r_b)|| Map(r_c)
This is well beyond the scope of this thread, but separating motions from buttons like this causes other issues.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#21  July 02, 2022, 10:22:53 pm
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What kind of issues?

From what I've been told, most classic fighters (good ones) handle commands like this. Motions and buttons separate. but anyways, I dont know too much. but I've been using it for a long time now and it's pretty good.
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Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#22  July 02, 2022, 10:43:57 pm
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From the top of my head, if you hit a button and do the QCF afterward, the move still comes out. Most noticeable during cancels. Another is, during Custom Combo, if you do DP then X, Y, two Shoryukens come out. If there's anything I learned it's that Custom Combos are a great stress test for input buffers.

I don't think any of them are gamebreaking, but they're hard to unsee when you know they are there.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#23  July 02, 2022, 11:42:43 pm
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I use to use mugen 1.1b. Then switch to Mugenhook. After that to Ikemen Go. I use more  ikemen Go now cause , I don't need to do conversion for every character for the awesome tag battles. I would go back to using Mugen 1.1b but for only single mode arcade matches.
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Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#24  July 03, 2022, 06:05:52 am
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Ive noticed while fighting PotS's Dictator that when using a char that uses Tiny Buffering for example I used DW's Akuma, when switching sides so fast  and you double-tap to run, Akuma in this case just did not want to run, it was like a 50/50.

It was depended if I rolled beforehand as well, sometimes after a roll the run wont come out, which got me hit.
I also never caught this before to report it to DW as I had a faulty keyboard and was thinking it was my KB rather then the char.

I really hope for Ikemen to set the standard for inputs and to be one universal system, its going to be easier for everyone from coders to players and to people that tend to provide feedback.

From all the buffering systems that I have played so far, I feel explod is the closest to I guess arcade or PC releases, I am not yet used to PotS's new system but everything comes out as it should from what ive tested.

Sadly my understanding aint even close to provide more detailed feedback but when I play I do tend to notice when inputs are being dropped lets say and I try to report as much as I can.
Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 06:14:24 am by PeXXeR
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#25  July 05, 2022, 04:14:34 am
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From the top of my head, if you hit a button and do the QCF afterward, the move still comes out.
Funny this came up because this is a feature inherent to certain SNK games, most notably Garou, where the buffer for inputs and buttons is so wide you can prep a super 23623A and choose to delay the final 6 because the rest of the inputs are still active.

For most use cases standardized buffers in mugen are not bad because it's a pretty volatile environment in the first place, but I remember talking to Vans about certain questions of "accurate" conversions also meaning bugs and quirks, where thinks like buffers might matter more. Things like hyper hops in Kof are sort of by products of how the game reads the inputs so when we design characters in relationship to sources we have to work around these limitations if we want to recreate a certain experience.

I think personally the way Vans developed Tiny Buffering is very very useful for SNK and especially KOF. when reading through his code through the characters he gave me to study I realized the way he developed it was to deal with how SNK generally designs their input parsing for KOF. This is a problem for me because that team, the team that worked on Real Bout, the team that worked on Garou, and the various teams behind releases by SNK sub companies like ADK, etc. all programmed different input parsers, which cause all of their games to feel different. SO ideally we'd want to have some sort of base reader that we could modify to suit our needs in a very modular fashion.
Last Edit: July 05, 2022, 04:22:18 am by Bannana
Re: Poll: Which engine version do you use the most?
#26  July 05, 2022, 05:09:22 pm
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From the top of my head, if you hit a button and do the QCF afterward, the move still comes out.
Funny this came up because this is a feature inherent to certain SNK games, most notably Garou, where the buffer for inputs and buttons is so wide you can prep a super 23623A and choose to delay the final 6 because the rest of the inputs are still active.
I had no idea about that. I was curious enough to check a couple FF games and indeed it works like that there. Still seems a lot harder to do on purpose than in the afflicted Mugen characters though. I think the button buffers there decrease even during hitpause.

I guess when I talk about inputs it's about how Capcom does it most of the time since that's where my bias lies. Curiously, Mugen's native system is probably closer to KOF than SF, while the one coming to Ikemen Go is the other way around.

For Ikemen Go's new parser that Gacel is working on, at one point I thought of suggesting making the inputs behave like Mugen through some option, but then thought nobody would care about having that option. Might be worth suggesting afterall, if feasible.

Quote
For most use cases standardized buffers in mugen are not bad because it's a pretty volatile environment in the first place, but I remember talking to Vans about certain questions of "accurate" conversions also meaning bugs and quirks, where thinks like buffers might matter more.
In my experience, when people talk about buffers what they essentially want is one like SF5, where links and such are 100 times easier.

I am not yet used to PotS's new system but everything comes out as it should from what ive tested.
Just for trivia the code in the Mugen versions is more like a bionic Mugen buffer, with codes to fix most of its issues, whereas the code in the Ikemen versions replaces it entirely.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.