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Death Battle (And sprite fight animations) (Read 17351640 times)

Started by Long John Killer, April 09, 2015, 03:59:16 am
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2321  June 03, 2020, 07:12:33 am
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stopped caring about the stats and just watch them for the animation. they had some pretty good ones recently.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2322  June 03, 2020, 10:05:23 am
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Death Battle has been innacurate before, but Dragon Ball isn't a good example of that. Dragon Ball (like many other anime), overexaggerates the abilities of the characters and making every fight feel more dramatic than it deserves to be, hell, it still seems like its trying to portray Goku as a good character, while, realistically, he is an idiot incapable of thinking about the consequences of his actions to the point where he became almost insufferable.
???

Besides the characterization of the character not exactly pertaining to their fighting capabilities in this case, historically Goku is, uh, very good.  He's a literal angel at one point, pure hearted naivety incarnate, who matured as the series progressed as would make sense.  Where his character starts to plummet comes from Super neither wanting to progress the characters as is nor let them uphold their standards, but regress them to cover old ground we've already covered, but less well told while slingshotting the power levels, while giving a big shrug to their usage simultaneously.  But to base Goku as a character solely on his deeds in Super would be akin to vouching for the Pokémon community solely based on Sword & Shield's recent track record.  Or The Simpsons post modern era.  Which at least that example would be more viable because there's been excessively more bad Simpsons than good Simpsons.  Very sadly.  But Super Goku's got quite a ways to go before becoming the de facto Goku over Dragon Ball and DBZ.

Or another example that comes to mind since we just covered Wonder Woman, if that New 52 backstory was all that mattered pertaining to the character that actively looked to cut out people's previous connections to the character and her lore and sour the whole deal with a cyclic rape story leading to a kinda "Eh, you're who you choose to be rather than your family tree" moral that was likewise scrapped in the end.  It's not even a bad moral nor a bad comic line, it's just also there to pull the rug out of, what, 70-so years of comic history, and that's all one's supposed to care about the character?
Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 10:15:01 am by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2323  June 03, 2020, 07:52:25 pm
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DBX is back, and looks like hot garbage, that drop in framerate
Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 07:56:11 pm by DatKofGuy
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2324  June 03, 2020, 09:02:47 pm
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Case in point, they could at least pretend to have cared to representing the characters's, uh, characteristics at all?  At least they got Thor owning a hammer down, Vegeta's power is he has a son and a Team FourStar joke.  Two thumbs up, guys.

At least it's just DBX which mainly exists as means to practice different random animations of interest according to them, but this one's not really that good either.  Personally, I still find it funny though for the "no research" portion of their show DBX got the closest to representing Final Fantasy right out of all their stuff.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2325  June 04, 2020, 12:21:05 am
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You do realize that personality isn't what they're analyzing right?  It's literally in the rules they set for themselves: 
Quote
To ensure a fair fight, all moral restraints from killing are ignored. All other traits are considered.

Characterization doesn't matter in this series, DBX even less so.  They're not writing crossover fanfiction, they're drawing a comparison by analyzing statistics and data points.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2326  June 04, 2020, 12:41:08 am
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But it is key to getting the characters right, Ben himself contests to that.  Beyond removing the moral code on killing, the respective characters should be acting as themselves normally would, else we wouldn't be having Character X versus Character Y, we've have robots impersonating them.  Which is a paraphrased quote from Chad or Ben from one of their own DBC episodes, I think one of the Ben 10 ones that everyone criticized if I recall correctly?  Been a while since seeing it.

If it was a straight-forward case of nothing beyond power set versus power set, then to rewind back to Goku vs Superman, we wouldn't have had the issue they had with either kryptonite or moving the fight to a sunless location.  But that would be wrong and out of character of Goku.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2327  June 04, 2020, 01:34:57 am
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But if that were the case then the entire series becomes pointless because 90% of the fights would never happen in-character.   Obi-Wan and Kakashi are both smart enough to know to not immediately escalate to violence with an unknown enemy.  Green Lantern wouldn't just start beating up a random kid like Ben 10.  Mario and Sonic are canonically on very friendly terms thanks to the Olympics games.

IDK, it just strikes me as being super nit-picky over after the fact set dressing.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2328  June 04, 2020, 02:56:24 am
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It's all pretty standard "bloodlust" rules, the kinds laid out in pretty much every "who would win in a fight" board in all the forums that have those sections. The idea is that the character has all restraints and personal moral qualms shut off. But crucially, they're not supposed to turn into mindless berserkers either: you're just supposed to pretend that they will think and act as they normally do, with the exception that they'll readily kill and do anything to win.

Or another example that comes to mind since we just covered Wonder Woman, if that New 52 backstory was all that mattered pertaining to the character that actively looked to cut out people's previous connections to the character and her lore and sour the whole deal with a cyclic rape story leading to a kinda "Eh, you're who you choose to be rather than your family tree" moral that was likewise scrapped in the end.  It's not even a bad moral nor a bad comic line, it's just also there to pull the rug out of, what, 70-so years of comic history, and that's all one's supposed to care about the character?
I would argue it was a fair deal worse than that: while certainly, throughout almost the entirety of the character's history, Wonder Woman is no stranger to reboots, and has been constantly been under fire from rapidly shifting status quos and backstory revisions, the New 52 reboot was just a complete and utter hollowing out of the character and everything she stands for. What almost all these revamps, the New 52 one included, have in common is that they all stem from a fundamental refusal to engage with the text of the character—the foundational elements laid down by her creators—an unwillingness to live up to the fairly radical ideas presented by that original vision.

Whether its the stuff about Paradise Island being an all-female high-tech utopia run by immortal philosopher-poets (who, sure, are also peerless warriors, and will gladly take up arms against evil and injustice, but also aren't constantly decked out in armor and looking to fight people), or Wonder Woman herself being born and gifted with powers entirely without the help of man—divine or otherwise—the cores of her backstory are freely changed without any thought or care, and usually to downplay said radical ideas into something "safer", to something more stereotypical and lazy. While there has also been many great runs on the character that reverse the damage caused by all the others, those runs always seem to get cut short and/or deal with constant, short-sighted editorial malfeasance, with all of the good stuff they brought in being immediately undone by the next creative team. There is just great lack of respect to the core of the character that neither of the other two members of DC's "Trinity" have ever had to deal with.

And the New 52 reboot is the worst of the worst, reading now as almost a sick joke in how it seemed almost surgically designed to ruin the character. The one two punch of the Rucka/Scott/Sharp run in comics and the Wonder Woman movie seem to have wiped most of its deleterious changes away from cultural memory, but the idiotic change in the origin is still present: that Wonder Woman is in fact the daughter of Zeus. That the most iconic female superhero is special solely because of who her father is. And that's probably here to stay, even though it really undercuts everything about the character. -_-
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2329  June 04, 2020, 03:23:24 am
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DBX is back, and looks like hot garbage, that drop in framerate
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ozmo6BkpUo[/youtube]
Why does it take half the video for the actual damn animation to start? Its not even good animation, I hate their 3D fights.

But if that were the case then the entire series becomes pointless because 90% of the fights would never happen in-character.   Obi-Wan and Kakashi are both smart enough to know to not immediately escalate to violence with an unknown enemy.  Green Lantern wouldn't just start beating up a random kid like Ben 10.  Mario and Sonic are canonically on very friendly terms thanks to the Olympics games.

IDK, it just strikes me as being super nit-picky over after the fact set dressing.
Because it IS nit-picky. I won't lie, I still think its dumb edgy shit to have characters end up every fight with a fucking fatality (I mean, Aang went to the point of learning a new technique in ATLA just so he couldn't kill Ozai, yet he says he had no choice when facing... I don't remember who he faced, like, what the fuck?), but it has always been the rules for them to measure which of them is stronger or to even justify a fight in the first place.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2330  June 04, 2020, 03:27:23 am
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stopped caring about the stats and just watch them for the animation. they had some pretty good ones recently.

For the past 3 or 4 years I've been doing that too. Just skip to the action. But these days I don't watch anymore. I just go this thread here just to read the results.

One of the last videos I watched was the Daredevil vs Nightwing. Nightwing has technology that can detect mutations. Ok there's a metahuman gene in the DC universe. But what lost my motivation to watch any of their content was Nightwing's device can identify what the mutation can do. I'm not familiar with DC and its fictional technology but I personally feel that's taking it too far.
sailormoongalaxy said:
I had read on Wikimoon, and I found it grotesque it was so wrong.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2331  June 04, 2020, 03:37:50 am
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Ok, Aang versus Edward Elric is specifically done as an exception because neither character would kill, to the point either would likely rather take their own life before, ergo it's funny that they both are put into this predicament.  How well the joke lands is up to the viewer, but that's how I saw it, anyways, because prior years to that episode they were against Aang being in without someone just like him.  But yes, overall there is a much wider pool of believability in fights when the outcome isn't death but just victory, and what that measure is can be a case-by-case basis.  The cast has discussed it themselves a few times too, but because of the randomness of what "case-by-case basis" would entail and them not wanting to leave that much left open to debate if "What if X wasn't holding back for Y reason, would the outcome be different?" so they go for straight-forward death is the deciding factor.

But yeah, the whole Ringmaster thing with DBX isn't really my cup of tea either, but they're trying to set some sort of unnecessary background story with these hosts, supposedly ending Death Battle with Wiz vs Boomstick for a gag I'd imagine.

And Jmorphman, I wasn't even planning on going that deep into it, just citing another example of characters deserving to be viewed as the whole of their series, not surgically from specific negative points in their history, but.....yeah, you would be more well versed in D.C. Comics than I and I agree with what you said, well said.

Also you guys do you, but I don't get just skipping the information part and going straight to the animation with nothing else?  For the random fan-made projects people put up online specifically not looking to go into research, sure, by all means, emphasize spectacle over accuracy.  That's how stuff like this got popular for years.



But....Death Battle's whole point IS the accurate portrayal of these things and how they turn out.  Those always seemed the most important part to me in this whole show's existence, heck, an episode or two ago of DBC they said how the animations they do are mostly just practice to put to better use in their other official content like Red vs Blue or whatever other shows they're working on.
Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 03:58:09 am by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2332  June 04, 2020, 11:23:14 am
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But yeah, the whole Ringmaster thing with DBX isn't really my cup of tea either
I think they are trying to ape off XVX with the whole announcer thing.. DBX was just supposed to be fights like OG 1MM, no stats, and shit, just 2 characters fighting.
You spend half the video listening to an annoying ringmaster and lose interest. These days for DB and DBX, I just skip to the fights, coz a few of my friends are animating on them.

For the DBX, it was animated by Devil Artemis, he was brought on as a contract worker as one of the B team, and usually get given the shit that the A team don't feel like doing. In this case, he wasn't given much time to do this animation, as he is also working on other DB animations, as well as his own stuff.


EDIT:
Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 02:10:31 pm by DatKofGuy
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2333  June 07, 2020, 05:10:21 am
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And Jmorphman, I wasn't even planning on going that deep into it, just citing another example of characters deserving to be viewed as the whole of their series, not surgically from specific negative points in their history, but.....yeah, you would be more well versed in D.C. Comics than I and I agree with what you said, well said.
Yeah, I got kind of carried away, whoops.

But the Wonder Woman stuff really is so unbelievably awful and condescending that it's kind of unfair compare it to most anything else!
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2334  June 07, 2020, 06:09:02 am
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Personally, it sounds very much akin to Metroid and the Other M treatment, except WW's history is exceptionally longer and its correction was also much more swift and clear.  For reasons I can't grasp other than monetary reasons saving on reusing models and renders, Other M is still the flagship go-to representation of the series as a whole, and it is a tad bit maddening.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2335  June 10, 2020, 11:12:18 pm
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meh, video is 4:30, fight only starts at 2:30
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 11:15:42 pm by DatKofGuy
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2336  June 10, 2020, 11:37:06 pm
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Saying it now before the fans bury me in their anger, but... FUCK FIRE EMBLEM!
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2337  June 11, 2020, 12:14:15 am
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meh, video is 4:30, fight only starts at 2:30
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALI9iE92gyQ[/youtube]
I fail to see how the result is obvious, its not like Mulan isn't a popular character, and characters win by vote.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2338  June 11, 2020, 12:17:54 pm
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You clearly havent encountered the Smash Fanboys then
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2339  June 17, 2020, 10:43:33 pm
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So new week, new DBX.

And....yeah, it's still really bothering me how just inaccurate these portrayals are.  So during this quarantine I ended up running through Pirate's Cure, Half-Genie Hero and Seven Sirens.  And their info on Shantae is just factually incorrect.  She doesn't fight the other genies in Seven Sirens.  At all.  Nor does she beat Nega Shantae in Half-Genie Hero, freaking Sky, Bolo and Rottytops jump into her mind and beat the evil clone after some hours of attempting.  And the animation gives her the Pirate's Curse items, things that are specifically not hers, and on loan for the duration of that game's adventure so long as she didn't have any of her magic during the game because of narrative reasons in the previous game.  And Shovel Knight's breakdown was strangely incredibly bare bones in comparison to Shantae's, for whatever reason?  He certainly had more to talk about than just filling out time joking about the choice in weaponry.

It just comes across as "Here's composite character X with things that don't make sense for them to have versus less compelling to break down character Y.  Then kill character X anyways".  It's really annoying getting them both wrong, and all the more-so when the one that's more incorrect is the one they kill off, why bother with the extra steps in presentation if you're not going to bother getting it right?

It doesn't help that this is a slaughter in Shantae's favor, but giving it the leeway of it being DBX and all.
Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 11:22:22 pm by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2340  June 17, 2020, 11:29:45 pm
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...The actual, literal tagline for DBX is "No rules, no research, only bloodshed."  It is very explicitly just a fight animation that fans get to vote on who wins.

If it honestly bothers you that much that they are doing exactly what they say they are going to do, maybe you should just not watch it?