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Mai Shiranui & Poison (8/11/12) (Read 71313 times)

Started by DW, April 06, 2012, 08:18:31 pm
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DW

Mai Shiranui & Poison (8/11/12)
#1  April 06, 2012, 08:18:31 pm
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Here they are... Characters are now hosted at Trinity Mugen. Go to "Downloads" and my folder.  :)

Poison's updates:

=5/5/12=
 - Clsns revamped
 - MAX Mode implemented
 - New Advancing Guard FX added
 - ReadMe updated
 - MAX Mode FX revamped

=6/9/12=
- Timing tweaks to various anim frames so that they look/flow smoother
- Added extra chars that Poison interacts with for her intros. Rajaa's Maki/Dhalsim/Lilith, CrazyKoopa's Ingrid, Sean's Haggar and Buckus' Haggar. Maybe a few more, can't remember... :p
- Clsns touched up once again
- Some alignment fix ups for certain misaligned frames(or at least, they appeared to be misaligned)
- ReadMe Updated

=8/11/12=
- Cornerpush fix added
- Certain sprites that weren't mapped to her main pal scheme were fixed so that they do now.
- Pal order reconfigured
- ReadMe updated

Mai's updates:

=5/23/12=
- SFF/AIR completely revamped
- New intro/winpose added
- New moves Yusura Ume, Hakuro no Mai, and Hana Arashi added
- New neutral(no vel X) jump HK added
- Various coding touch ups and tweaks.
- Multiple sprite edits added
- Throws fixed up
- MAX Mode implemented
- New Advancing Guard FX added
- ReadMe Updated

=6/15/12=
- New moves added: Toki Tsubute, Ukihane, Dairin Fuusha Otoshi, Fake Kacho Sen, Benitsuru no Mai, and Saiyo Chidori
- Lots and I mean LOTS of great sprite edits added in
- New winpose "Divine Beauty" added vs PotS' Geese Howard only
- KOF '98 intro vs JZ's Andy Bogard only
- AI and a MUGEN 1.0 patch included
- Flame FX have all been enhanced and are now all shared on her pal
- Pal FX for flame hits have been changed to a universal scheme, so it looks good for any color fire
- Sff/sprites touched up so there shouldn't be any pal problems now
- Special "Perfect" (no damage) taken winpose added
- Hana Arashi was tweaked a bit, along with the proper falling anim added
- Clsns touched up a bit
- All specials that negate projectiles were improved, so now they'll block normal as well as helper projectiles. Also, the attribute of said attacks were changed to SA, as opposed to SP.
- New small pic
- ReadMe Updated
- Voice for Hakuro no Mai changed
- Alt Lose/Time over pose added
- Custom air grab attempt added

=8/11/12=
- Cornerpush fix added
- Hana Arashi tweaked a bit for the last time :P
- Pal order reconfigured along with extra pals added
- Some slight clsn touch ups
- ReadMe updated


Mai & Poison(8/11/12):
www.trinitymugen.net


Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 12:27:19 am by DivineWolf

Titiln

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#2  April 06, 2012, 09:00:59 pm
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i'll give you some actual feedback after trying them out for longer but they're good so far. welcome to the forum

Dead or Alive Fan

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#3  April 06, 2012, 09:28:02 pm
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A big fan of Mai here too so don't have to told you which one am gonna download first, welcome to the community  :sugoi:

Cybaster

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#4  April 06, 2012, 09:30:45 pm
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Wow, this is really very impressive for first characters. :)
You're like another Jmorphman at this point.

Only tested Mai for now, and she feels really nice. She's kinda stiff on a few moves though, and looking at your code I can see two reasons :
- The moves such as QCF*2+button usually aren't coded as D,DF,F,D,DF,F but D,DF,F,D,DF in order to smoothen the input a little.
- She very often ends up doing a grab attempt instead of the actual move when doing EX moves and MAX level supers. It's because you placed the command for throw (in state -1) before the EX and supers ones. Don't forget Mugen reads the code from top to bottom and will trigger the first changestate which has its triggers true, i.e. throw here. Put the complicated moves first.

DW

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#5  April 06, 2012, 09:35:14 pm
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Cybaster said, April 06, 2012, 09:30:45 pm
Wow, this is really very impressive for first characters. :)
You're like another Jmorphman at this point.

Only tested Mai for now, and she feels really nice. She's kinda stiff on a few moves though, and looking at your code I can see two reasons :
- The moves such as QCF*2+button usually aren't coded as D,DF,F,D,DF,F but D,DF,F,D,DF in order to smoothen the input a little.
- She very often ends up doing a grab attempt instead of the actual move when doing EX moves and MAX level supers. It's because you placed the command for throw (in state -1) before the EX and supers ones. Don't forget Mugen reads the code from top to bottom and will trigger the first changestate which has its triggers true, i.e. throw here. Put the complicated moves first.

Well, I wouldn't put myself on par with creators like Jmorphman or PotS, though I appreciate the compliment. I'm completely self taught in the ways of MUGEN, so there's still a LOT I need to learn. Thank you for the feedback. I actually didn't know MUGEN read moves like that in the cmd. I'll get to that right away. Thanks again.

Rajaa Retired

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#6  April 06, 2012, 10:01:16 pm
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*Makes a folder named "DivineWolf" and adds all two of his characters to my roster

You have some really bad collision box issues, but let's fix those!

- Animation 201:

When you have default collision set, and then on a frame after the default collision you place another collision box of the same type as the first default collision box, then the new collision box will override the first default collision box. You need to make sure you add all of the collision boxes back to any frames that need new collisions boxes that are different than the preceding default collision boxes. This problem is present in a couple of other animations. You'll just have to check all of them.

- While you're going through your collision boxes, copy P.o.t.S' collision box style, since that's your goal. Look at how he does EVERYTHING. Make your collision boxes be coherent with one another. Your collision boxes, as they stand now, move too much. Very Problematic.

- Hit animations should use default clsn from the very beginning of the animations.

- The standing get hit collision boxes should be the same as the standing animation's collision boxes. Same for crouching.

- Walking animations' collision boxes should not change. I usually just keep them the same as the standing animation's collision boxes.


Modification:

I'm talking about Mai, by the way.
Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 10:10:01 pm by Seincat

Cybaster

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#7  April 06, 2012, 10:07:16 pm
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Just tested Poison, and she feels completely different though. Looks like it's POTS-style inspired, but doesn't use his latest structure, contrary to Mai.
Are the sprites by Dampir ?

- Would be nice to have a small portrait not using cropped in-game sprites. Saw that was in the todo list.
- Specials and supers lack envshake, which makes them lack power visually.
- Please use POTS' latest hitsparks as you did with Mai. :)
- Some sprite inconsistencies, but hey, you're not the spriter right ? High Heel Pounce has huge legs for example.
- This mix of normal (qcf) and charge motions doesn't feel right. Either you make him/her play like Vega/Guile, either like Ryu, not both. High Heel Pounce would make much more sense as charge B,F+kick. Same for Crescent Stiletto as D,U+kick.
- Dunno what's her width, but she can't go very close to the border of the screen.
- Whiplash's whip could really get new whip sprites. It really shouldn't be hard to edit them.
- Whiplash is overkill because of the CLSNs. In this case, you either balance it by putting blue CLSNs on part of the whipe, or do as Haohmaru and give huge startup and recovery times.
- Giving cornerpush to Whiplash moves doesn't make much sense either.
- Missing stars over the opponent's head when opponent is dizzied after Poison's Kiss.
- The way her hair is growing on the intro where she turns her back to the opponent is really weird... :S Especially noticeable on non default palettes.
- Add the navel to all the sprites where it's missing please. :ninja:

Overall, it's a nice Poison, but she definitely feels less polished and solid than Mai at this point.

DW

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#8  April 06, 2012, 10:26:33 pm
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Wow, lol I'll get to the responses as best as I can. For now, I just made a quick update to Mai's CMD based on Cybaster's feedback. First post updated with the link. Just drag and drop it in her folder. She should feel a lot smoother now.

Cazaki

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#9  April 06, 2012, 10:33:57 pm
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I really like these at first glance, but we'll see.

@ Rajaa

Not quite sure if he should copy the PotS' collision style (Atleast not his Ryu collision style, I haven't actually looked at the CLSNs for his other characters.), where every red CLSN IS the blue/green CLSN, and generally is determined by the limb that's being used and where it flails. I don't think that's the correct way to go about it, though if PotS changed how he did them over the years, go for it. The way Jmorphman has recently handled his CLSNs (By recently I mean specifically his updated Chun Li and Vice) is more like how Capcom has been handling theirs in SF4. Allows for certain moves to have different utility, and makes it so during the attack they don't have ungodly priority.

Again, this is just PotS Ryu I'm speaking of, and I'm just an amateur so you definitely know more than I do.

DW

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#10  April 06, 2012, 10:36:59 pm
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Seincat said, April 06, 2012, 10:01:16 pm
*Makes a folder named "DivineWolf" and adds all two of his characters to my roster

You have some really bad collision box issues, but let's fix those!

- Animation 201:

When you have default collision set, and then on a frame after the default collision you place another collision box of the same type as the first default collision box, then the new collision box will override the first default collision box. You need to make sure you add all of the collision boxes back to any frames that need new collisions boxes that are different than the preceding default collision boxes. This problem is present in a couple of other animations. You'll just have to check all of them.

- While you're going through your collision boxes, copy P.o.t.S' collision box style, since that's your goal. Look at how he does EVERYTHING. Make your collision boxes be coherent with one another. Your collision boxes, as they stand now, move too much. Very Problematic.

- Hit animations should use default clsn from the very beginning of the animations.

- The standing get hit collision boxes should be the same as the standing animation's collision boxes. Same for crouching.

- Walking animations' collision boxes should not change. I usually just keep them the same as the standing animation's collision boxes.


Modification:

I'm talking about Mai, by the way.

Well, forgive me for not understanding everything you're trying to get at. A lot of terms and all fly over my head, since I'm extremely new to MUGEN creation. Though, I understand most things you're getting at. Since I add every clsn myself frame by famre, manually, it's kinda hard to get the exact same result for the other frames following the animation.

I don't really know how PotS accurately distributes the clsns, I just do my best with my own ability. Any suggestions on how I could stablize her clsns would be appreciated in that aspect. Thank you for the feedback. I'll do my best for further updates.

DW

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#11  April 06, 2012, 10:45:03 pm
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Cybaster said, April 06, 2012, 10:07:16 pm
Just tested Poison, and she feels completely different though. Looks like it's POTS-style inspired, but doesn't use his latest structure, contrary to Mai.
Are the sprites by Dampir ?

- Would be nice to have a small portrait not using cropped in-game sprites. Saw that was in the todo list.
- Specials and supers lack envshake, which makes them lack power visually.
- Please use POTS' latest hitsparks as you did with Mai. :)
- Some sprite inconsistencies, but hey, you're not the spriter right ? High Heel Pounce has huge legs for example.
- This mix of normal (qcf) and charge motions doesn't feel right. Either you make him/her play like Vega/Guile, either like Ryu, not both. High Heel Pounce would make much more sense as charge B,F+kick. Same for Crescent Stiletto as D,U+kick.
- Dunno what's her width, but she can't go very close to the border of the screen.
- Whiplash's whip could really get new whip sprites. It really shouldn't be hard to edit them.
- Whiplash is overkill because of the CLSNs. In this case, you either balance it by putting blue CLSNs on part of the whipe, or do as Haohmaru and give huge startup and recovery times.
- Giving cornerpush to Whiplash moves doesn't make much sense either.
- Missing stars over the opponent's head when opponent is dizzied after Poison's Kiss.
- The way her hair is growing on the intro where she turns her back to the opponent is really weird... :S Especially noticeable on non default palettes.
- Add the navel to all the sprites where it's missing please. :ninja:

Overall, it's a nice Poison, but she definitely feels less polished and solid than Mai at this point.

I have no sprite editing talent whatsoever. I'm afraid anything involving that is outside my ability. Though, if anyone is willing to edit sprites to make her look better, I'd gladly add them in. Yes, the sprites are Dampir's. I could change the command for Handcuff Toss to a hcf or qcf motion. Though personally, I like her command set. Though I suppose it can be a tad misleading. Was just going for something different. I'll add some blue clsn on the whip attacks to compensate. I used PotS Nakoruru hitsparks because of the slash hits. His more up to date ones don't have a slash hit effect. It wouldn't look or feel right to me IMO, to give her the updated hit sparks.

The rest I'll take note of. Thank you for the feedback.
Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 10:53:41 pm by DivineWolf

Rajaa Retired

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#12  April 06, 2012, 10:57:16 pm
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DivineWolf said, April 06, 2012, 10:36:59 pm
Well, forgive me for not understanding everything you're trying to get at. A lot of terms and all fly over my head, since I'm extremely new to MUGEN creation. Though, I understand most things you're getting at. Since I add every clsn myself frame by famre, manually, it's kinda hard to get the exact same result for the other frames following the animation.

I don't really know how PotS accurately distributes the clsns, I just do my best with my own ability. Any suggestions on how I could stablize her clsns would be appreciated in that aspect. Thank you for the feedback. I'll do my best for further updates.
What don't you understand?

When you do this:

[Begin Action 200]
Clsn2default:  3
  Clsn2[0] = -8, -90, 12, -70
  Clsn2[1] = -20, -75, 20, -27
  Clsn2[2] = -28, -40, 28, 0
200,0, 0,0, 3
200,1, 0,0, 2
Clsn2:  1
  Clsn2[0] = -8, -20, 144, -70
200,2, 0,0, 1
200,3, 0,0, 2

The second clsn2 deceleration that you see will cancel out the clsn2default that you see. In that animation, on frame 3, the collision boxes will be incorrect. Test it out and see what I'm talking about.

You don't need to be accurate, just follow his concepts.

Cazaki said, April 06, 2012, 10:33:57 pm
Not quite sure if he should copy the PotS'
I'm talking about his last three characters since that's what's already been copied, if you haven't downloaded Mai yet.

Titiln

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#13  April 06, 2012, 11:28:29 pm
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mai:
- the EX versions of her moves felt underwhelming
- i would suggest that you check out hero's mai. you could even use his color separated sprites. his character also has several sprite edits for other moves i figure you could use.
- her kick throw if you hold back looks weird, you could remove some frames and it would look more natural than what was currently done
- her air throw grab animation looks weird since it's just her standing one. i hope you can edit a more natural looking one, it shouldn't be that hard if you put parts from her standing throw attempt and some jumping attack together.

poison:
- same as mai, the EX moves felt underwhelming mostly.
- animation timing for crouching hp seemed weird. it should also have a cut sound instead of a regular hit sound
- air throw has the same problem as mai
- afterimages after qcfqcfp last too long

this is an excellent start and i look forward to whatever you're putting out next

ExShadow

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#14  April 06, 2012, 11:31:08 pm
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Thanks for the 2 girls, going to try them out now  ;D

Cazaki

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#15  April 06, 2012, 11:35:43 pm
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In-depth analysis of Mai, side by side analysis with CvS2 (Might not play with Poison, not yet anyway.):

- Even though your standing MP is accurate to CvS, I think the hitbox could be buffed to have some anti-air properties.

- Mai shouldn't be able to special cancel out of far standing medium kick. She couldn't in CvS2, and with her being able to do it here is an unnecessary buff. It isn't game breaking but it's an option that shouldn't be there. Also if you do f+mk while close you still get the far standing medium kick, when you should just get the close medium kick

- Similar to the medium kick, she can cancel out of her far standing heavy punch, she shouldn't be able to do that either, but I guess you don't care too much for accuracy since this is your own style. Actually I'm going to just list the normals that aren't special cancellable in CvS2 just in case you decide to make them accurate to source.

Far standing light punch, far standing light kick, far standing medium kick, far standing heavy punch , standing heavy kick (I would keep this special cancellable however.), f+standing heavy kick, crouching medium kick (In my opinion no slide should be able to be cancelled into a special.)

- Light fan throw moves slower than it's supposed to. (Couldn't give you a value it should be at right now because I'm too lazy for that.)

- Her default heavy kick is actually her close heavy kick in CvS2, but I like the way you have it now more since now it can be used as an anti-air option.

Even without CvS accurate changes I really like your Mai and it'll stay there for quite awhile. Poison...well I don't like the character in general so that's why I'm doubtful about downloading it. I posted this because I was certain you wanted your Mai to be CvS accurate mostly and not just your own style, because she can't really do all that much more than she couldn't do in CvS2. Maybe if you wanted your Mai to be more unique you could consider creating another version.

Lord Kain

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#16  April 06, 2012, 11:50:52 pm
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Welcome to the forum!, glad someone decided to make another poison for mugen, good luck and I will download this soon, thanks!
"Given the choice; whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire or to challenge the Fates for another throw a better throw against one's destiny... what was a king to do?

DW

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#17  April 06, 2012, 11:59:59 pm
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You're welcome EX Shadow and anyone else giving thanks for the creations. I'm just giving back to the community as best I can. Also, thank you all for the welcome comments.

@Cazaki: I am not aiming for any in game accuracy with any of my creations. Future or present. I will take some of your suggestions into consideration however. Despite not aiming for in game CvS2 accuracy, I won't hide behind that as an excuse to push out faulty work. I do use it as a basis, though it's not my goal. Thank you for the feedback.

@Titilin: I'll see what I can do about the air grab anim for Mai and Poison. Though, as I've said before, I'm NO GOOD at sprite editing, lol. I really have no idea on how to sprite edit at all. Creation as a whole is still a on going process. I'm glad that I came here and released them here. Because with this feedback, I can make them more as I envisioned them. Because you can only go so far on your own, without any help or feedback. What do you mean by underwhelming? Like not strong enough damage wise? Or not very effective? Hmm... That's odd, I could have sworn that Poison's crouch hp did have a slash hit sound... Just not the same slash sound as Crescent Stiletto. I'll be sure to check up on that. Along with tweaking the anim timing a bit.

Thank you again guys for the feedback. I'll get to work on this stuff ASAP. Updates should come along... Well, I can't really give an exact time frame... Let's just say those will drop ASAP as well. >_>
Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 02:08:22 am by DivineWolf

Titiln

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#18  April 07, 2012, 12:03:28 am
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i should've been specific about what i meant by underwhelming and i'm sorry for that. i mean that the moves usually looked too much like their regular versions, when something more could've been done i think (like repetitions or bigger effects or something).

TTTTTsd

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#19  April 07, 2012, 01:13:57 am
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Cybaster said, April 06, 2012, 10:07:16 pm
- This mix of normal (qcf) and charge motions doesn't feel right. Either you make him/her play like Vega/Guile, either like Ryu, not both. High Heel Pounce would make much more sense as charge B,F+kick. Same for Crescent Stiletto as D,U+kick.
I'm sorry but......What about Takuma from KOF13? A lot of characters do this and feel fine in their original games. I'm not trying to be rude but......yeah. Granted those moves would make sense if they were charge, at least one of the two, but I don't see a problem with a mixture.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!

Knuckles8864

Re: Mai Shiranui & Poison
#20  April 07, 2012, 01:23:17 am
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Just tested Poison:

-Taunt looks weird when she just goes back to standing position.
-Some combos when done right do a bit too much damage in my opinion.
Ex. Handcuff Toss-Run then jump to High Jump Kick-Standing Medium Kick- Crescent Stiletto
-Perhaps make her a bit shorter?
-EX Crescent Stiletto seems too much like the others. Give a extra hit or something.

I'll find more if I can.
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