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Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out) (Read 2837342 times)

Started by Iced, July 15, 2012, 03:54:44 am
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4061  August 14, 2022, 01:45:53 pm
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Even with all the uncertainty about how exactly they'll be incorporating mutants into the MCU, I don't think they'd be that dumb as to change something so charged and meaningful as Magneto's backstory. Plus the age thing is an issue that could be easily addressed in just a couple of lines, with many different solutions available.
Obviously they could make up anything to explain the age. But the problem is that it's going to be a lot harder to relate to someone who comes from a hundred years ago (because a movie with him will likely be set around 2030) and still fights the same fights he did back then, even though that specific fight has already been won (not gone obviously, but it has vastly changed). Magneto is considered an anti-hero because of this backstory, but while Magneto's age can be fixed any way they want, there's no way they can make that backstory relatable today. You'd have to bring back Nazis to make it work. ... I guess that's a possibility, this "new world order" would bring back that kind of tensions, Nazis or not, we do have the return of far right terrorism and fascism right now in the US, they can work on that and they have a New World Order to make it happen.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4062  August 16, 2022, 12:18:50 am
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I think the issue of relating to these characters who are super old is just an unavoidable aspect having them linked to real world events; it's a problem that has to solved as time goes on, and I think generally the various creators who've worked on these characters have managed to do it.

Like, take Captain America, for instance. When Kirby and Lee revived the character and introduced the element of him being frozen at the end of WWII, that played very differently than it does now. Back then, Captain America's stint in the ice only lasted barely 20 years: he was still very much a "man out of time", but he still was in a world that was recognizably his own. As time progressed, however, the sliding timescale at work at Marvel meant that the time Captain America spent in the ice kept getting longer and longer, which naturally has changed the dynamic considerably. It used to be pretty easy to introduce a character that Cap knew back in the 40s (like Cap's childhood friend Arnie Roth, who first appeared in the 1982 as a guy who'd be in his 60's) and play off the that gap in time. But that story probably couldn't work now, at least not in the same way; heck, we're going to approach to the point soon where it'd strain credulity that anyone is still alive that Captain America knew before he was frozen. They're already starting to explore that kind of thing in his current book, but it's only gonna get worse, and new problems will continue to pop up too (we're only 2 decades out from the point where Captain America will have been frozen for a full century, which is gonna be a real trip).

In the end, though, even with all the complications and issues that have arisen from Captain America's origin being fixed to WWII, he's had an extremely good track record of keeping the character and his relationships updated and adapted to fit the "present", even as the present keeps moving forward and forward. And I totally think the same is possible with Magneto.

Also sidenote I really really really fucking hope that if they do use Magneto, they just skip the villain stuff. Almost every X-Men movie has heavily featured him either as a full-on villain (the first three movies) or even just kinda mostly one (the First Class movies). I'd honestly be way more interested in seeing the fully reformed Magneto-as-headmaster of the 80s (like what the X-Men 97 show is doing) or even just modern (post 2004ish) Magneto where he's just straightforwardly an X-Men ally.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4063  September 10, 2022, 09:43:44 pm
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Marvel at D23
https://twitter.com/MultiverseMurph/status/1568682384530493440 Thunderbolt cast concept art : Val, Red Guardian, Ghost, Yelena, Bucky, Walker, Taskmaster. Eh, the cast seems a lot more skewed toward the super soldier type of character, less diverse than the Avengers. I didn't expect Red Guardian to make it (I was already thinking Bucky would be redundant with USAgent), and the concept art kinda seems to hint that Val will be an active element, and not a Nick Fury man-in-the-chair type ? Or maybe it's just me. No Zemo ? He didn't like all the super soldiers in the team maybe ? edit - oh yeah, Abomination is also missing WTF, everyone figured that his return in She-Hulk would lead to Thunderbolt for him.
https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1568673942210248705 Werewolf by night on October 7. ... Wow. It'll have Elsa Bloodstone.
https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1568674827577303045 Secret Invasion trailer, will lead into Armor Wars.
Echo has wrapped filming, Kingpin has an eyepatch, apparently it will revolve around Native American stuff. Charlie Cox is happy to be everywhere (She-Hulk, Echo, Born Again).
Torres (the new Falcon, right ?), the Leader, and Isaiah Bradley are in Cap 4.
Black Panther and Quantumania are the next big shit. BP will involve lots of soldiers from everywhere trying to take advantage of Wakanda's terrible state post snap to try and steal vibranium all the time, as expected.
Also, no F4 announcement after all.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 12:45:43 pm by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4064  September 10, 2022, 10:48:51 pm
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That's not even Thunderbolts, that's Black Widow and Friends.
No Zemo
No Songbird
No Moonstone.
What's even the point of making a movie of a team when you aren't even using the core characters?
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4065  September 11, 2022, 01:37:34 am
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It's obviously more of a Dark Avengers but without using the name Avengers. And yes, it's still not using the original Dark Avengers line-up, just characters that are currently available. It was the same with the Defenders.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4066  September 11, 2022, 03:20:31 pm
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No, it's nothing like the Dark Avengers since they are dark mirrors of the Avengers characters, it's just Black Widow 2: Electric Boogaloo using the name of a better comic.

Ridiculous how people are defending this garbage, it's like making a Fantastic Four movie without Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4067  September 11, 2022, 07:10:36 pm
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No, it's nothing like the Dark Avengers since they are dark mirrors of the Avengers characters
That's exactly what Red Guardian, Taskmaster, John Walker and Yelena are.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4068  September 11, 2022, 07:25:25 pm
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Wow, a team with 4 Captain Americas, what a cool Avengers dark mirror.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4069  September 11, 2022, 07:32:59 pm
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4 Captain Americas, a Hawkeye, a Black Panther (Task does triple duty), a Black Widow, and Ghost who can probably pull some Ant-Man stuff. It's only a shame that Abomination isn't there after all the teasing.
It's obvious that it'll be super weird having 4 super soldiers who do the same things and no Hulk or Iron Man (Red Guardian is the weirdest but I guess Yelena asked to have her dad stick around), but it's also very obvious that this is still the dark mirror trope with what's available and what was expected since Ant-Man 2 came out.
For Bucky, I've seen a lot of people hope for him to give the team some legitimacy and give him some sort of old guard teacher role, as he tries to make the team a real legit Avengers 2.0 before shit hits the fan, why not. Also this will immediately follow Cap 4 so that's probably how he gets there. (it's also odd that Cap 4 has the Leader but the Leader isn't in this, he was also expected, either they're waiting to add him or they plan to make him only a one-and-done)
It's the Avengers team that the army tries to rebuild as a special forces type before we're forced to get the Young Avengers. Most of this was expected.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 07:42:59 pm by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4070  September 11, 2022, 07:40:58 pm
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Then why the hell they can't just introduce more characters in the own movie to fill the gaps on this supposed dark mirror, including some of the originals? Did Marvel damage storytelling so much that you must introduce every character in a cheap Disney+ series?
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4071  September 11, 2022, 07:44:35 pm
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Have you not seen the size of the list of titles for the next 4 years in 3 entire phases, did you want MORE ?? Those titles are introducing characters for what's after Thunderbolts. This cast is already tying up a lot of lose ends that were introduced since Ant Man and the Wasp, up to Falcon and Winter Soldier.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4072  September 11, 2022, 07:49:22 pm
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I don't give a shit about the MCU, I just wanted a Thunderbolts movie to be about the Thunderbolts, it's not something hard to understand.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4073  September 11, 2022, 08:08:01 pm
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The Iron Man wannabe could have been made a Hammer tech and tie with Armor Wars, but there are mutants in that team. Wait for Thunderbolts 2.

Cap 4 also got the Israeli supes, so that's going to be... something.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 08:11:46 pm by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4074  September 11, 2022, 08:16:26 pm
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Zemo - already in
Atlas - Cross particles that the HYDRA dude got in Ant-Man
MACH and Fixer - Justin Hammer engineers
Moonstone - introduce the moon stones in Cap Marvel 2
Songbird - rookie of the team, added in the own movie as the PoV char

I don't even watch Marvel movies anymore and I can feasibly put a real Thunderbolts roster together, why people that are getting millions of dollars out of this can't?
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4075  September 11, 2022, 08:39:35 pm
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1 It wouldn't be an Avengers Team That Doesn't Want to Use The Name Avengers
2 it wouldn't resolve the arcs of all those characters that have been waiting around for exactly this team up that everybody has been expecting
3 it would introduce stuff in movies like The Marvels that are already busy doing other stuff

You're being obtuse on purpose because you're hung up on the name Thunderbolts, expecting mutants, and the whole Internet has already accepted that this wasn't actually the Thunderbolts but just using the name with whatever is available to transition to the next real Avengers team. It's not the Thunderbolts, it's the Dark Avengers without Abomination or Zemo. Your refusal to accept that this just isn't where the MCU is right now doesn't actually make this the right idea for the MCU.
That's right : stop thinking of the movie called Thunderbolts as a movie about the Thunderbolts. We've known for a while that it wasn't going to be it, and that Marvel isn't above swapping names around like that.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 08:47:33 pm by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4076  September 11, 2022, 09:02:33 pm
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1. And that would be good because the world doesn't need another Avengers team.
2. That doesn't concern me, if they want to resolve the Yelena Belova character arc, make a Black Widow series/movie and resolve it on that instead of dragging it into an unrelated movie.
3. Yeah, devoting a few lines to introduce an artifact would take away from one of the hundred quips on the script.

Also the "whole internet" isn't composed just by Disney apologists, I see more negativity than positivity about the cast on Twitter and Reddit outside of the superfans bubble. For the rest of the navel gazing, then just don't make it a Thunderbolts movie if it isn't intended to be a Thunderbolts movie, it's not hard to understand why people are upset about it.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4077  September 11, 2022, 09:20:20 pm
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1. Dude. All the Marvel movies and series that you boasted about not following have made it very clear that they desperately need a new Avengers team to follow through. Secret Invasion will make it even more obvious.
2. Ghost, Taskmaster, Bucky, Walker are also in this. Everyone expected Ghost to join a team like that the minute she survived AMatW, it was clear that it was the entire point of her character. Taskmaster was literally designed to be a tool for a team like this. Walker was also literally designed to be the next Cap for a future team right out of Endgame. Don't be mad that Yelena exists in this movie.

it's not hard to understand why people are upset about it.
Everybody knows how you feel about it. I'm just telling you how it got there and you're still throwing a tantrum. Obviously I understand it sucks to see a title you like be used for something else entirely, but you're just shutting off your ears and singing lalalala I don't want to hear anything I just want to be mad. Don't fucking pretend that we don't understand why you're mad.
This isn't a Thunderbolts movie. I don't understand how long you're gonna rant about it even though you completely get that this isn't a Thunderbolts movie.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 09:24:58 pm by Byakko
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4078  September 11, 2022, 09:42:36 pm
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1. Then make an Avengers movie and deal with that plotline on there, not on Thunderbolts.
2. No one cares about MCU Ghost and Taskmaster, Bucky already had a series where his plotline should had been finished.

You are just proving my point, this isn't a Thunderbolts movie, why I shouldn't be upset about it?
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4079  September 11, 2022, 09:59:53 pm
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If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe: THE END (until the next movie comes out)
#4080  September 11, 2022, 10:07:06 pm
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I'd chop the quotes too to take things out of context too to make you look bad, but I won't even bother because there's no use discussing with someone that keeps doing those leaps of logic to defend a terrible Marvel decision.