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Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus (Read 1404452 times)

Started by Umezono, February 26, 2021, 04:54:53 pm
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Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#41  February 28, 2021, 04:01:59 am
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I would like them to bring it back and make it more accessible.

... on the subject of accessibility, I wonder how they'll make Spiritomb obtainable in this version. Hopefully not as complicated and time consuming as it used to be. Which also makes me wonder how the Underground will play out.

Also I know it's a faithful remake, but the return of the Union Room has me praying they'll bring back the WiFi Club from Platinum. I miss that place.

... also what the heck is the Jubilife GTS going to become?
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#42  February 28, 2021, 04:06:43 am
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There are some problems I see with Hidden Power that should be addressed if it comes back:

  • The "hidden" aspect is just inconvenient at this point, we should be able to know the damn type of the thing without the help of a NPC.
  • Fairy type was not part of it, which is stupid as hell, and shouldn't have been an issue even in Gen 6, let alone continuing in Gen 7.
  • There should be a way for us to change it, even if only once, so people wouldn't just swap all the time for coverage. And even then, coverage is the whole damn point of the move, it was already nerfed to base 60 power only, what is wrong with people being able to change the type? Otherwise, buff it back to 70.
  • Why is it only special? For a coverage move, the fact that its limited to special attackers only is a really dumb limitation. Maybe have a physical version that is called, I don't know, "Hidden Strength" or something.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#43  February 28, 2021, 04:07:55 am
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That seems a little unfair.  The former is attempting to recreate the original specifically with the intent of faithfulness, also picking an intentionally barren room, the latter is updating an considerably older game to modern standards and is being more liberal with their changes to spice it up.  Frankly, wasn't a fan of the Switch remake of Link's Awakening's new looks and skipped out on it because of it.

It not unfair in the slightest. Regardless of your preferences, the lighting and post processing, even the texture quality is leagues better than a remake of one of the highest grossing franchises by one of the most successful game developers. Its mediocrity. If they wanted to achieve the faithfulness they might as well have gone fully sprited rather than this rough mobile game quality stuff.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#44  February 28, 2021, 05:18:28 am
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Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#45  February 28, 2021, 09:28:23 am
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It not unfair in the slightest. Regardless of your preferences, the lighting and post processing, even the texture quality is leagues better than a remake of one of the highest grossing franchises by one of the most successful game developers. Its mediocrity. If they wanted to achieve the faithfulness they might as well have gone fully sprited rather than this rough mobile game quality stuff.

It's unfair when:
1.- Pokémon biggest source of outcome is merchandise, not the games themselves.
2.- It's not being developed by GF but by another studio.
3.- Legends Arceus (GF's game) looks miles better, so it's not like equals are being compared.

There are legitimate arguments against the games' graphics, saying it's because the games come from a high-grossing franchise isn't one of them. And as a longtime Pokémon fan, I just have to admit the games have never been highly regarded for graphics, not even in the first generations with their fugly sprites (looking at you, Venomoth, Nidorina, Mew), and by the GBA, you could easily find games with better looks like Metroid Fusion, the Sonic Advance series or TWEWY.

Personally, I don't think the graphics are pretty, in fact, I think they look worse than SwSh, but they're not ugly either, they're average. And since GF is in charge of a game with better graphics, I'm not gonna take this as an omen of bad things to come.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#46  February 28, 2021, 07:13:22 pm
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We're like what 8? 9 generations in and other franchises on the hardware look 10x better while only Pokemon looks this lazy and lifeless and people will still say "Oh, its ok, Pokemon is not about graphics." Of course its not all about the graphics but this is a shot for shot remake, and we're like a decade from its initial release. Its like theres no sense of standards?  Nobody is being unfair to this company for how lazy and rushed their releases are. You literally can't be unfair to these executives who just check a couple boxes on forms to get this stuff out the door by Christmas, no matter how unfinished they look. At some point you look at how the other franchises are doing, see all the innovation, and then look at Pokemon and realize these guys are so rich they know whatever they pump out is going to sell because of diehard fans.

I was a huge Gen 4 fan, I had all 3 of Pearl, Diamond and Platinum; and Heartgold is probably my 2nd favorite game of the entire series. But that was a long time ago. The series has been on a downward trajectory for a long time now, and you can see that the people on top really don't care all that much as long as it makes them money. The fact a shot-for-shot remake, a game with all the infrastructure for its game loop already implemented, looks this shoddy in 2021 shows they do not care. I don't see an omen for bad things to come, the proof is already there.
Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 07:17:51 pm by Umezono
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#47  February 28, 2021, 10:57:44 pm
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Ok....putting aside all that, because the irony of this discussion mirroring the Sword and Shield topic from two years ago to too sweet and likely to give heartburn, that's not what I was calling unfair.  Is it unfair that the games don't aim for their potential?  Sure.  That's not what I meant.

The point of the pictures you posted were unfairly imbalanced.  The shot of the Pokemon game depicted a deliberately shadowed out simply household, something not matched by the surrounding world outside, arguably except by the small town size.  In which case good luck with your uphill battle with video game designing as a whole.  The shot in the Zelda game eschews 1-for-1 design and throws everything in the room to clutter it Ghibli-style, to the point the black void outside the house is all but not there.  It's nice, but it's also a deliberate change to make use of hardware power increase since....whenever Link's Awakening came out, 1991 I think?  Great and all, but we all know a George Lucas scenario where we hit that 'may have gone too far in a few places" changes for the supposed better and things turn out better left as is.  Example here is by god, do I not get their intention with the art style with the Switch remake for Link's Awakening and is very off-putting after years of imagining it by its artwork via the age of "playing the box art".  Hell, I would have taken if it looked like the anime trailer they put out for the remake, but it's....like a Unity-made fan project.

I don't think we're on opposing sides here, we both want the Pokemon games to do better in every regard.  This is just an unfair take, and the game's truly are not bad looking for what direction they DID end up taking.  If anything, I want to hear from their mouths WHY they went this route, after HeartGold/SoulSilver's aim at updating gen 2 to 4's standards and Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire's aim at not just matching X and Y's but surpassing them, filling in as the never finished Pokemon Z essentially.  This, from whatever angle you choose to look at it, does not look to fit in to Gen 8's standards.  If anything, it's more akin to the Let's Go games, as I mentioned earlier with their battles also replicating their model quality and animations.  That is an odd choice if that's their intent.
Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 11:07:15 pm by Long John Killer
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#48  March 01, 2021, 12:16:55 am
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We're like what 8? 9 generations in and other franchises on the hardware look 10x better while only Pokemon looks this lazy and lifeless and people will still say "Oh, its ok, Pokemon is not about graphics." Of course its not all about the graphics but this is a shot for shot remake, and we're like a decade from its initial release. Its like theres no sense of standards?  Nobody is being unfair to this company for how lazy and rushed their releases are. You literally can't be unfair to these executives who just check a couple boxes on forms to get this stuff out the door by Christmas, no matter how unfinished they look. At some point you look at how the other franchises are doing, see all the innovation, and then look at Pokemon and realize these guys are so rich they know whatever they pump out is going to sell because of diehard fans.

I was a huge Gen 4 fan, I had all 3 of Pearl, Diamond and Platinum; and Heartgold is probably my 2nd favorite game of the entire series. But that was a long time ago. The series has been on a downward trajectory for a long time now, and you can see that the people on top really don't care all that much as long as it makes them money. The fact a shot-for-shot remake, a game with all the infrastructure for its game loop already implemented, looks this shoddy in 2021 shows they do not care. I don't see an omen for bad things to come, the proof is already there.

I've... got lotsa things to say.

Firstly, you're still treating these games as if they're made by the same company, they're not. Yes, TPC is involved, they are in all games, but just because they are doesn't mean they're all abiding to the same standards, otherwise, Pokkén and Snap 2, both of which are developed by Namco, wouldn't be as nice looking as they do.

Second, and I should've said this before, but just because they're making money doesn't mean they stand up to well... the highest standards of quality. As sad as it is to say, many of these high-grossing franchises out there aren't exactly synonym with "top quality." Like seriously, who actually expects jack shit from fucking Hello Kitty or Barbie? Not all recent Mario games are grand prize winners, see the case of the newest Mario Tennis; not all MCU movies are at the same quality as the Russo brothers' work, and I could ramble all day about Dragon Ball Super ranging mediocre to terrible as far as quality is concerned.

Now, when it comes to the problems with the higher ups, yeah I agree, there's definitely a problem with them. It's been there since around Gen 4 or so. Biggest problem is these people don't have confidence in their work anymore. Masuda and Ishihara especially, one is so traumatized with cell phones to the point he thinks he can't deliver, while the other expected the Nintendo Switch to fail because of that as well. I definitely believe new people should get take their places.

However, the graphics? Is that the worst thing they've ever done? No. I think there are far more concerning things than just how a game looks. Pokémon's main attraction has always been catching, trading and battling magical creatures. It's always been like that. If the devs were to say that you can only catch the original DP dex and not anything else, that would be worth getting worked up at them; if they said you can't transfer your pokémon to Home or to Sword and Shield, it'd definitely be the same; heck, if they stated that one use TMs and the shitty HMs from past games are returning, that'd be worth filling YT with tons of critique videos.

That's all I'm saying, graphics aren't the most concerning thing out there.

I've been very critical about the franchise in general, especially storytelling. I think the games, anime, manga and online series all suck when it comes to making stories. I think the franchise needs new blood and people who care. However, just like I think there are terrible things running inside, I also believe they're running outisde. Remember when people praised a chinese bootleg for supposedly having better graphics than the Switch games until it turned out their animations were stolen? That took a lot of their credibility, and there wasn't any way I'd still be supporting movements like Dexit with people like them.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#49  March 01, 2021, 12:21:27 am
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I really hope they're not stupid enough to bring back one use TMs and HMs back. Hell, fan games have done better than that, its not hard to change it.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#50  March 01, 2021, 12:40:09 am
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Oh god.

Honestly, while I can stomach HMs... if they bring back finite TMs, I'm breaking something.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#51  March 01, 2021, 12:40:23 am
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I really hope they're not stupid enough to bring back one use TMs and HMs back.
They already did in the forms of TR's.  One of the reasons what's keeping me from progressing onward with team building is the sheer amount of TR's that a single Pokémon can learn and the vast amounts of movesets and strats that is just way too much for me to memorize with the sheer amount of mons out there.

At least TRs can be farmed in the Wild Area.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#52  March 01, 2021, 12:42:56 am
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TMs breaking after use already was brought back.  They're in Sword and Shield just under a new name.

There's just also a huge imbalance in the ratio you obtain copies of all of them to the rate you'd ever want to use them that with little effort last I checked I have some 80+ copies of most of rotting in the bag.

HMs I'm never sure how I want them to handle them.  They're intrusive, annoying in battle....and really the wall of difficulty you want in Pokemon games that's been lacking.  At least early on.  I don't have an answer how they should tackle that issue, just I'm not 100% against their removal.  Their inclusion is just one of many things to balance in your team to make it through the world map, and I liked that back in gen 1 needing to have that designated flier and someone to surf you around and working your moveset around that.  But I also wholeheartedly get why people praise moving past them.  Though I dunno why they need the games any EASIER, SwSh can be beaten in your sleep.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#53  March 01, 2021, 12:52:09 am
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Yeah, I think I should've worded that better. Breakable TMs already exist in Sword and Shield, but as stated upwards, they're easy as hell to farm, so it's not a problem if you sacrifice an Earthquake TR because you can just get another one anyways.

I was talking about the old "you only get them once" TMs, the type that makes you plan carefully which pokémon are gonna give them to because otherwise, you will never be able to teach the move again.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#54  March 01, 2021, 12:52:24 am
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Their inclusion is just one of many things to balance in your team to make it through the world map
Balancing, my ass. Limiting, is what it was doing. "You can build a team of six pokemon with four moves each, except one of them that will end up being a dump for a bunch of garbage moves that will occupy space in your party and will never be used in battle". If all moves were useful or strong like Surf, I would MAYBE give it a pass, but even then, it still goes completely against the idea of variety, since it forces you to use specific Pokemon with specific moves.

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Though I dunno why they need the games any EASIER, SwSh can be beaten in your sleep.
Maybe if they could code decent AI, having NPCs that actually strategize, this wouldn't be a problem. Making a game challenging doesn't mean you have to make it inconvenient, in fact, having full control over your team means you'd be able to think more about what you would do if progress at one point became too hard. The same could be said about permanent Exp. Share, people wouldn't complain if this didn't mean your entire team could instantly win any battle.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#55  March 01, 2021, 12:55:24 am
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I'm 200% against HMs returning... they should remain dead! They limit the options of Pokemon you want to have and I sure hope they stay dead for these remakes. As for TMs, I think the unbreakable TMs will stay while TRs may come back unless they're gonna place them as tutoring moves since it's a remake and they always tend to have move tutors, unless they bring both TRs and move tutors with even more moves.

Now as for Hidden Power, it's real stupid how they never changed it around to support the Fairy type but since it was snapped for SwSh, they might have redone it to add Fairy type and I sure hope they also change the move to use the user's highest attack stat, much akin to how Photon Geyser used Necrozma's highest attack stat for power.

People complain about the difficulty of Pokemon games and I don't understand why. Pokemon was never difficult to begin with, it's your knowledge is what determines the difficulty. For me, the difficulty for the remakes will be extremely low because I know of type coverage and what defense stat a Pokemon is bad at (always use physical attacks against a Gardevoir, Gallade, Milotic/always use Special attacks against Floatzel, Rampardos, Staraptor, Golem, Steelix etc).
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Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#56  March 01, 2021, 01:20:19 am
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People complain about the difficulty of Pokemon games and I don't understand why. Pokemon was never difficult to begin with, it's your knowledge is what determines the difficulty.

Well, yes, but not entirely. Some pokemon games are a lot easier than others. Some Elite Four in newer games have pokemon with only 3 moves, like.. WTF?? You're an E4, you're supposed to be a challenge, and you only have 3 moves in your pokemon? Same thing with level cap. In SWSH you get the Exp Share for all your pokemon and can't turn it off, all your pokemon get over leveled. You get to the first gym with your starter in the final evolution. Meanwhile, in pokemon yellow for example, we had only a Pikachu against the first gym being Rock/Ground.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#57  March 01, 2021, 01:31:12 am
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Yeah, Gen I was not really difficult, but the games certainly became easier with each generation. The thing is, its not really hard to have challenge in the game, they could easily have difficulty settings that change how the AI of the Pokemon behaves and maybe change the level of some trainers. It would be great if the Hard difficulty had AI that actually tried to predict your moves and employed specific strategies, it would make the game more interesting for players who don't want to just sweep through everyone. Like I said, if it was well implemented, permanent Exp. Share would not be a problem, it would be a blessing, if anything.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#58  March 01, 2021, 01:32:40 am
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While Pokemon games have never been the pinnacle of difficulty, they've at least challenged you enough.

Nowadays the rival always picks the starter you're strong against, and they give you helpful items out the ass all the time. Looking at you, Trace...

Diamond and Pearl made you travel across 2-3 towns/cities between Gym 2 and Gym 3, for one early game bit of difficulty. Additionally, Cynthia... exists. Even at my best, whenever I replay Gen 4 these days, she can still sweep me.

For what it's worth, Sinnoh is a one of the harder regions... and such difficulty is best left preserved.
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#59  March 01, 2021, 01:35:39 am
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Additionally, Cynthia... exists. Even at my best, whenever I replay Gen 4 these days, she can still sweep me.
I never understood where did this come from. I always dealt with her so easily...
Re: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl + Pokemon Legends Arceus
#60  March 01, 2021, 02:21:20 am
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It is definitely overrated how difficult Cynthia is. The amount of content before Cynthia makes it very easy to overlevel and you literally just need to carry a coverage move for Garchomp so it couldn't set up (ideally by making her waste time on healing).

To give Gen 4 credit, Platinum ups the difficulty curve to a significant degree both in terms of late and postgame. But the idea it sticks out as a particularly difficult game is really cause a lot of people grew up with gen 4 back when they didn't know as much as they did, and she's tough to beginners. I really don't think she's capable of sweeping unless your team is totally toploaded into one or two pokemon countered by Garchomp or Lucario.

Honestly Gen 3 was harder to me, and to its credit, the Elite 4 and RR episode in Sun and Moon/USUM were on the tougher side as well if you didn't use experience share.

People complain about the difficulty of Pokemon games and I don't understand why. Pokemon was never difficult to begin with, it's your knowledge is what determines the difficulty.

Well, yes, but not entirely. Some pokemon games are a lot easier than others. Some Elite Four in newer games have pokemon with only 3 moves, like.. WTF?? You're an E4, you're supposed to be a challenge, and you only have 3 moves in your pokemon? Same thing with level cap. In SWSH you get the Exp Share for all your pokemon and can't turn it off, all your pokemon get over leveled. You get to the first gym with your starter in the final evolution. Meanwhile, in pokemon yellow for example, we had only a Pikachu against the first gym being Rock/Ground.
You just needed to catch a Mankey there though