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Project Catch 'Em All (Read 753179 times)

Started by Ryon, September 12, 2013, 02:52:20 am
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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#581  January 07, 2016, 05:30:49 pm
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I got an neat idea if you guys are up for it. We could hold a tournament(like one with 32 teams or so) and whoever wins gets to choose the next pokemon that gets made. If there's even more people we could set up a league were you could earn points to get into the tourney I mentioned
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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#582  January 07, 2016, 06:06:18 pm
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The teams setup are fun and very strategic.

I'm def gonna get more in depth with this after winning a tournament.
Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#583  January 07, 2016, 06:26:53 pm
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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#584  January 07, 2016, 08:10:43 pm
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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#585  January 08, 2016, 12:59:46 pm
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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#586  January 11, 2016, 11:44:36 pm
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I got an neat idea if you guys are up for it. We could hold a tournament(like one with 32 teams or so) and whoever wins gets to choose the next pokemon that gets made. If there's even more people we could set up a league were you could earn points to get into the tourney I mentioned

Hmm, it's an interesting idea, but there would have to be some ground rules. For example, we can only pick from the sprites that JoshR has already made. I won't be custom spriting anything because I'm pretty bad at it. I'd be willing to support it though. Depends on others. @TxPot, would you be on board for something like this? @Ryon?

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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#587  January 12, 2016, 02:45:33 am
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Of course it'll be from joshr sprites needs to match the style haha. But yeah once I get the system finalized and get the people that want to participate, we can test it out. After the test we can actually set up everything for the real deal
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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#588  January 12, 2016, 03:52:40 am
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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#589  January 12, 2016, 10:09:05 am
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Thanks to its plant-like features, this pokemon can perform photosynthesis and purify the air around it by sleeping under patches of sunshine. It's also rather pacifistic...whoops.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Also, this marks the end of my first wave of POKéMON for Project Catch'em All.
Will I come back? Of course, but I will now wait first until the system update is finished.
In the meanwhile, I will continue to work on the NES Street Fighter 4 remake with Cliff Li (and his stage), Chun-Fo Moon's stage, the screenpack and Tyson Houbot (and his stage).

Also, here are my planned POKéMON for my next wave:
*Togetic (an old WIP of mine)
*Ampharos
*Lucario
*Rotom
*???
*???
*???
*???
Yup, 8 POKéMON again, although I still haven't decided on the last 4. Any suggestions?
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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#590  January 12, 2016, 10:34:57 am
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Do a small one, Skitty, and a big one, Wailord Tyranitar.
Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#591  January 12, 2016, 12:26:34 pm
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If we  can get some dragon types that'll be cool
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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#592  January 12, 2016, 04:51:18 pm
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Okay seeing as how I've actually started following this project more closely thanks to Traweezie's streams allow me to throw in my feedback.

  • Simul mode has alot of bugs. Lifebars overlap (you can't see your partner's sometimes), certain abilities don't work (ie: Water Absorb), weather conditions not affecting teammates (ie: Charizard's Sunny Day & Venusaur's Solarbeam), among other things.
  • Critical Hits, I feel, happen way too often and can literally make or break a match. Best example is Hitmonlee; if he scores a Critical Hit with High Jump Kick, its literally game over for a large majority of the cast. Imo, this should be reduced to the source game's base critical rate of 6.25%, and possibly even reduce the critical damage down to 50% to match the mechanics used in gen 6.
  • Certain types being affected by status conditions that they shouldn't be (ie: Fire types being Burned, Electric types being Paralyzed, Grass types being affected by Leech Seed, etc)
  • Character balance issues. For a boss character, Mewtwo seems really underpowered, as compared to Steelix and possibly even Charizard, who feel really OP in comparison. There's also the aforementioned Hitmonlee, and even Pikachu is guilty of this as well to a certain extent (Paralysis making them unable to move 100% of the time for two turns seems kind of silly)
  • Lack of dual-typing, though I'm going to assume that this is system related. Still, theoretically dual types shouldn't be too difficult to implement and would add a bit more variety.
  • Lack of type immunities. I mean, its already possible with Water Absorb, so I don't think it would be too game breaking.

Also expect me to contribute to this once I get a better understanding of the underlying system and code.

If we  can get some dragon types that'll be cool

Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#593  January 12, 2016, 06:04:19 pm
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@TxPot, would you be on board for something like this?
I don't mind this. My team would be Steelix at the front, and Honchkrow at the back. I could list a pokemon as a bounty, and the winner could have the pokemon released ahead of the usual engine updates.
Also, here are my planned POKéMON for my next wave:
*Togetic (an old WIP of mine)
*Ampharos
*Lucario
*Rotom
*???
*???
*???
*???
Yup, 8 POKéMON again, although I still haven't decided on the last 4. Any suggestions?
You haven't done Eevee yet, unless you're scrapping him.
If we  can get some dragon types that'll be cool
Dratini, Bagon, Shelgon, and Gible are the only Dragon type (Primary Type) that exists in JoshR's sprites. There's also not a single Flying type that exists, unless someone decides that Fan-Rotom should be pure Flying.
Okay seeing as how I've actually started following this project more closely thanks to Traweezie's streams allow me to throw in my feedback.
  • Simul mode has alot of bugs. Lifebars overlap (you can't see your partner's sometimes), certain abilities don't work (ie: Water Absorb), weather conditions not affecting teammates (ie: Charizard's Sunny Day & Venusaur's Solarbeam), among other things.
  • Critical Hits, I feel, happen way too often and can literally make or break a match. Best example is Hitmonlee; if he scores a Critical Hit with High Jump Kick, its literally game over for a large majority of the cast. Imo, this should be reduced to the source game's base critical rate of 6.25%, and possibly even reduce the critical damage down to 50% to match the mechanics used in gen 6.
  • Certain types being affected by status conditions that they shouldn't be (ie: Fire types being Burned, Electric types being Paralyzed, Grass types being affected by Leech Seed, etc)
  • Character balance issues. For a boss character, Mewtwo seems really underpowered, as compared to Steelix and possibly even Charizard, who feel really OP in comparison. There's also the aforementioned Hitmonlee, and even Pikachu is guilty of this as well to a certain extent (Paralysis making them unable to move 100% of the time for two turns seems kind of silly)
  • Lack of dual-typing, though I'm going to assume that this is system related. Still, theoretically dual types shouldn't be too difficult to implement and would add a bit more variety.
  • Lack of type immunities. I mean, its already possible with Water Absorb, so I don't think it would be too game breaking.
Also expect me to contribute to this once I get a better understanding of the underlying system and code.

1. I am working on a reduced lifebar version for Simul only. It won't happen for a while though. As for everything else, it's explained by the code handling: If the opponent is playing in Simul, the first pokemon out of the two will determine the whole team's type, abilities, and what moves will work on them. For example, Surf will be super-effective against Sandslash and Blastoise because Sandslash is the first Pokemon out.

2. If the A.I is using the pokemon, they get a +2 (or 25% chance) to the critical levels, to replicate the cheapness of Battle Tower and other forms of hax. This can be up for debate, but I can reduce the critical damage though.

3. This would be easy to add using custom states and a small amount of code, but given the fact that certain Pokemon wouldn't benefit from something resisting a status as they're too weak to attack normally, I say it's up for debate. Leech seed is a lost cause, though.

4. There's only a few things I can do for this, which is to give notorious Pokemon their lowest attacking stat out of the two. This would balance Hitmonlee out, but may be subjected to criticism.

5. Dual typing is one thing I would object to, as it would make certain pokemon stronger and others weaker. Imagine poor Magcargo being one-shotted by Surf or Earthquake.

6. Alexei objected to this long ago, but then told me we could try to make this work. For now, I would suggest having a higher resistance to something that should be immune to it, like damage set to 25% of original with Ghost VS Normal.



For some incentive on what pokemon to create, here is the original list for all pokemon that have a primary type, updated to use Trinitronity's creations:

*TOTAL CHARACTERS*

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Total = 44 pokemon (3 Legendaries)

As for pokemon claiming, I will do the types that are lacking in pokemon. That is Crobat, Granbull, Froslass, Dugtrio, and Gengar. If anyone objects, I will scrap them.

Also, as far as I remember, Samus is meant to be super slim, enough to be flexible and morph into a ball inside her suit. You gave her a huge ass that makes it impossible to imagine it being done.
Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#594  January 12, 2016, 07:00:38 pm
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5. Dual typing is one thing I would object to, as it would make certain pokemon stronger and others weaker. Imagine poor Magcargo being one-shotted by Surf or Earthquake.

Reason I bring up the Dual typing issue is the fact that the only Pokemon whose primary type is Flying is Tornadus, and that Pokemon who otherwise should take neutral damage or immune would end up being hit super effectively instead (ie: Skarmory vs Earthquake). It would also balance out some of the better Pokemon by granting them additional weaknesses (ie: Steelix)

As for the 4x weakness issue, I have two propositions;
  • Limit super effective damage to be x2 at max, which means that Magcargo won't suffer from being OHKOed by Surf all the time
  • Reduce super effective damage multipliers from x2 and x4 to x1.5 and x2.25, respectively. Of course this would also mean increasing the damage of Not very Effective attacks from x0.5 and x0.25 to x0.66 and x0.44, respectively, so resisted attacks end up doing more damage to compensate.

Quote
6. Alexei objected to this long ago, but then told me we could try to make this work. For now, I would suggest having a higher resistance to something that should be immune to it, like damage set to 25% of original with Ghost VS Normal.

If you go with option 2 that I suggested above then this should be fine, otherwise I'd probably go with Traweezie's suggestion of 12.5%

Quote
4. There's only a few things I can do for this, which is to give notorious Pokemon their lowest attacking stat out of the two. This would balance Hitmonlee out, but may be subjected to criticism.

You could probably fiddle with the base stats so that they're slightly lower, but nothing as palty as Hitmonlee's Sp.Atk, that would make him unusable. As I said earlier, the thing that really breaks Hitmonlee is the borked Critical Hit system for AIs, so fix that and youve pretty much nerfed Hitmonlee. Steelix is a different story though, and I suspect it may have to do with Screech and how stat drops work in this game.
Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 07:15:30 pm by Ricepigeon
Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#595  January 12, 2016, 07:22:44 pm
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Okay seeing as how I've actually started following this project more closely thanks to Traweezie's streams allow me to throw in my feedback.

  • Simul mode has alot of bugs. Lifebars overlap (you can't see your partner's sometimes), certain abilities don't work (ie: Water Absorb), weather conditions not affecting teammates (ie: Charizard's Sunny Day & Venusaur's Solarbeam), among other things.
  • Critical Hits, I feel, happen way too often and can literally make or break a match. Best example is Hitmonlee; if he scores a Critical Hit with High Jump Kick, its literally game over for a large majority of the cast. Imo, this should be reduced to the source game's base critical rate of 6.25%, and possibly even reduce the critical damage down to 50% to match the mechanics used in gen 6.
  • Certain types being affected by status conditions that they shouldn't be (ie: Fire types being Burned, Electric types being Paralyzed, Grass types being affected by Leech Seed, etc)
  • Character balance issues. For a boss character, Mewtwo seems really underpowered, as compared to Steelix and possibly even Charizard, who feel really OP in comparison. There's also the aforementioned Hitmonlee, and even Pikachu is guilty of this as well to a certain extent (Paralysis making them unable to move 100% of the time for two turns seems kind of silly)
  • Lack of dual-typing, though I'm going to assume that this is system related. Still, theoretically dual types shouldn't be too difficult to implement and would add a bit more variety.
  • Lack of type immunities. I mean, its already possible with Water Absorb, so I don't think it would be too game breaking.

Also expect me to contribute to this once I get a better understanding of the underlying system and code.

1.) Yes, it was never meant to be used, so it needs some serious love in order to work properly with everyone.

2.) I'd be for using the base crit rate. We're mostly going by the book for everything else. I can't see why this would have to be an exception. Critical should be something special unless boosted... seeing how all this stuff needs to be revamped, the character stats should probably too. That might be something to do much later down the line though.

3.) Yep, there was never any intent for there abilties until TxPot implemented them. He basically raised the bar for the whole thing that outshined the originals almost instantly.

4.) Mewtwo was the most powerful... when there were only seven pokemon in the game. I agree that he needs to be buffed.

5.) Dual typing is not something I'm against. It's most certainly system related and needs to reworked altogether. I've been thinking of an implementation and have come up with something that needs testing. Right now, the first enemy spawned is used to gather info about typing. My plan is to change it so that information is checked upon hit, damage calculated, and then finally applied after everything is in effect. This will require all HitDefs to pass along the ID of the root though. There's no going around that. I need to be able to check the variables of the opponent who attacked and the best was is that way. Changing all HitDefs would be tedious, but if this plan works, it'll be work it. Dual types could also be implemented at that time, though I think we're running low on system variables for the game. I'll have to see what's available. Sights were set really low in the beginning as you can tell.

6.) Water Ring fly past the radar to be honest. Even though I knew about it, I never gave it much thought until now. Well, I suppose immunities could be added. Maybe it could start with a few and then we see how that works. I can just imagine how broken fights could become though if a team happens to be immune to the other entirely.

I'll be glad to have you on board, though I'll save the explanation of the system until after it's in an acceptable form. No sense in teaching you two different things.


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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#596  January 12, 2016, 07:40:19 pm
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2.) I'd be for using the base crit rate. We're mostly going by the book for everything else. I can't see why this would have to be an exception. Critical should be something special unless boosted... seeing how all this stuff needs to be revamped, the character stats should probably too. That might be something to do much later down the line though.

If it were up to me, I'd use all six stats (HP, Atk, Def, Sp.Atk, Sp.Def, & Speed) since you plan on revamping the way hits are calculated. Rather than each Pokemon having their own Attack and Defense values, you'd have each of the stats assigned as variables and use those in the damage calculations. Hell, you could even go a step further and implement the actual damage formula from the games.

Quote
5.) Dual typing is not something I'm against. It's most certainly system related and needs to reworked altogether. I've been thinking of an implementation and have come up with something that needs testing. Right now, the first enemy spawned is used to gather info about typing. My plan is to change it so that information is checked upon hit, damage calculated, and then finally applied after everything is in effect. This will require all HitDefs to pass along the ID of the root though. There's no going around that. I need to be able to check the variables of the opponent who attacked and the best was is that way. Changing all HitDefs would be tedious, but if this plan works, it'll be work it. Dual types could also be implemented at that time, though I think we're running low on system variables for the game. I'll have to see what's available. Sights were set really low in the beginning as you can tell.

Since its a full game, rather than assigning types to each Pokemon, why not only assign type effectiveness? You'd only need 18 variables for all the types and since it's a fullgame, you'll know that each variable number will be consistent along each Pokemon.

Quote
6.) Water Ring fly past the radar to be honest. Even though I knew about it, I never gave it much thought until now. Well, I suppose immunities could be added. Maybe it could start with a few and then we see how that works. I can just imagine how broken fights could become though if a team happens to be immune to the other entirely.

Seeing as there's only really 8 immunities total (Normal vs Ghost, Ghost vs Normal, Fighting vs Ghost, Electric vs Ground, Ground vs Flying, Poison vs Steel, Psychic vs Dark, & Dragon vs Fairy) I really don't think it'll be that huge of an issue. That's why you have multiple attacks of different types after all.
Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#597  January 12, 2016, 07:50:36 pm
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Since its a full game, rather than assigning types to each Pokemon, why not only assign type effectiveness? You'd only need 18 variables for all the types and since it's a fullgame, you'll know that each variable number will be consistent along each Pokemon.
Hmm, can you expand on that idea a bit more? I'm not sure I understand. Even if type-effectiveness was set up that way, the check would still need to be implemented in a way that's simul-friendly.


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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#598  January 12, 2016, 08:37:59 pm
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As for the 4x weakness issue, I have two propositions;
  • Limit super effective damage to be x2 at max, which means that Magcargo won't suffer from being OHKOed by Surf all the time
  • Reduce super effective damage multipliers from x2 and x4 to x1.5 and x2.25, respectively. Of course this would also mean increasing the damage of Not very Effective attacks from x0.5 and x0.25 to x0.66 and x0.44, respectively, so resisted attacks end up doing more damage to compensate.

If you go with option 2 that I suggested above then this should be fine, otherwise I'd probably go with Traweezie's suggestion of 12.5%

Alright then, Option 2 it is.

Steelix is a different story though, and I suspect it may have to do with Screech and how stat drops work in this game.

Steelix's Screech just doubles his attack damage to opponents who haven't had attacked or used a move afterwards. It uses one variable to determine if the opponent is hit by it, and does nothing to the opponent's defences.

Since its a full game, rather than assigning types to each Pokemon, why not only assign type effectiveness? You'd only need 18 variables for all the types and since it's a fullgame, you'll know that each variable number will be consistent along each Pokemon.
Hmm, can you expand on that idea a bit more? I'm not sure I understand. Even if type-effectiveness was set up that way, the check would still need to be implemented in a way that's simul-friendly.

I think it's this:

For each Pokemon, there exists 18 variables, one for each type. If the Pokemon is weak against something like Water, one of those 18 variables will have Water as 2 (as in x2 extra damage taken from water). Then, when the defending Pokemon gets hit and/or ends up in the opponent's state, it checks to see if the attacker is using a Water-type move before it processes everything else. If so, it applies the extra damage.

Also, as far as I remember, Samus is meant to be super slim, enough to be flexible and morph into a ball inside her suit. You gave her a huge ass that makes it impossible to imagine it being done.
Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#599  January 12, 2016, 08:43:02 pm
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@TxPot, would you be on board for something like this?
I don't mind this. My team would be Steelix at the front, and Honchkrow at the back. I could list a pokemon as a bounty, and the winner could have the pokemon released ahead of the usual engine updates.

Steelix is banned til he gets a nerf. I'll put you in the database when you switch the team. Also I'll be streaming at 1pm pst if you wanna tune in
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Re: Project Catch 'Em All
#600  January 12, 2016, 08:52:49 pm
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For each Pokemon, there exists 18 variables, one for each type. If the Pokemon is weak against something like Water, one of those 18 variables will have Water as 2 (as in x2 extra damage taken from water). Then, when the defending Pokemon gets hit and/or ends up in the opponent's state, it checks to see if the attacker is using a Water-type move before it processes everything else. If so, it applies the extra damage.

Pretty much this. You might need an extra variable for the attack type but that shouldnt be to difficult to implement.

Just some psuedocode;
Code:
;Player 1 - Blastoise
[State -?, Set Attack Type]
trigger=time=0
var(10)=12 ;Water, see below
;10=Normal
;11=Fire
;12=Water
;13=Grass
;14=Electric
;15=Ice
;16=Fighting
;17=Poison
;18=Ground
;19=Flying
;20=Psychic
;21=Bug
;22=Rock
;23=Ghost
;24=Dragon
;25=Dark
;26=Steel
;27=Fairy
;28=Freeze Dry
;29=Flying Press

;Player 2 - Charizard
fvar(10)=1.0 ;Normal
fvar(11)=0.5 ;Fire
fvar(12)=2.0 ;Water
fvar(13)=0.25 ;Grass
fvar(14)=2.0 ;Electric
fvar(15)=1.0 ;Ice
fvar(16)=0.5 ;Fighting
fvar(17)=1.0 ;Poison
fvar(18)=0.0 ;Ground
fvar(19)=1.0 ;Flying
fvar(20)=1.0 ;Psychic
fvar(21)=0.25 ;Bug
fvar(22)=4.0 ;Rock
fvar(23)=1.0 ;Ghost
fvar(24)=1.0 ;Dragon
fvar(25)=1.0 ;Dark
fvar(26)=0.5 ;Steel
fvar(27)=0.5 ;Fairy
fvar(28)=1.0 ;Freeze Dry
fvar(29)=0.5 ;Flying Press

[State Type Effectiveness]
trigger1 = time=0
trigger1 = fvar(38):=fvar(enemy,var(10))

[State Hitstate]
type = lifeadd
trigger=?
value = -gethitvar(damage)*fvar(38)

The only issue with the above system is that it wont account for moves with their own type charts like Freeze Dry or Flying Press, but I don't think those moves are implemented yet.

EDIT: Altered the above to account for Freeze Dry and Flying Press by using 2 extra variables
Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 09:12:48 pm by Ricepigeon