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CvS2 Shingo Release (Read 9378 times)

Started by jay_ts, April 05, 2022, 06:37:58 pm
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CvS2 Shingo Release
#1  April 05, 2022, 06:37:58 pm
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CvS2 Shingo Release (04/05/22)


For my next CvS2 character, I bring to you Shingo. I know I already made a reimagined Shingo but I wanted to adapt him to a CvS2 environment with the new-ish sprites. He keeps Kyo's hitboxes and movement/frame data, but differs in many ways in both moveset and gameplay.

download: https://www.mediafire.com/file/hg1gfx8n52hc58s/cvsshingo.zip/file

Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#2  April 05, 2022, 07:47:46 pm
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This is a BIG surprise, thanks!!!
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#3  April 05, 2022, 08:52:54 pm
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Hello JtheSaltyy.

This is great, more chars to the roster, thank you so much. Question: Any chance to upload a classic version of this char, like Warusaki3´s? The groove selection looks like "Hh´s" style and the Ex groove looks different, too.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#4  April 05, 2022, 08:59:23 pm
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Gladly this is cool. However, I'm no fan of groove, I'm just a fan of POTS-style that it combines every grooves in one character with it's style. I'm using Infinite's Shingo which it newly edited by K6666Orochi & VirtuaRichie (KenMasters2812).
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#5  April 05, 2022, 09:17:12 pm
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Gladly this is cool. However, I'm no fan of groove, I'm just a fan of POTS-style that it combines every grooves in one character with it's style. I'm using Infinite's Shingo which it newly edited by K6666Orochi & VirtuaRichie (KenMasters2812).
Do you understand how rude it is to talk about other people's characters in a release topic? Let alone talk about how you prefer to use another person's version of this character? Keep it to yourself.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#6  April 05, 2022, 09:44:38 pm
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Couldn't have said it any better myself Umezono I have seen so many people post youtube videos about characters especially Infinite style talking about how they are not source accurate to their games and make fun of them for no reason. I agree with you about how if you don't like a character that is in said style you should keep it to yourself.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#7  April 05, 2022, 10:00:29 pm
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Do you understand how rude it is to talk about other people's characters in a release topic? Let alone talk about how you prefer to use another person's version of this character? Keep it to yourself.

what do you mean by that? is his opinion, not ours.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#8  April 05, 2022, 10:02:25 pm
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If you released a character and I come to your topic and say "Nice, but I prefer this other one" it's a useless post that serves no purpose, helps no one, derails the topic (just like now) and it's rude to the author.

Not difficult to understand.

It being his opinion doesn't mean he has to share it, especially if it's detrimental to the topic.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#9  April 05, 2022, 10:11:01 pm
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If you released a character and I come to your topic and say "Nice, but I prefer this other one" it's a useless post that serves no purpose, helps no one, derails the topic (just like now) and it's rude to the author.

Not difficult to understand.

It being his opinion doesn't mean he has to share it, especially if it's detrimental to the topic.

So let me get this straight, you're saying that it's so rude to say "nice character, but i prefer pots style", which means it's not right to the forum, is this a new rule?
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#10  April 05, 2022, 10:14:47 pm
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How hard is this to understand? Talking about how you prefer other people's work in a release thread adds 0 value to the conversation. It isn't useful feedback nor is it good faith.

By the way, it is technically a rule not to do this. Not that anyone ever followed it. But if people find it ok to say things like that, I think it's fine to point out just how rude it is to do so.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#11  April 05, 2022, 10:17:01 pm
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How hard is this to understand? Talking about how you prefer other people's work in a release thread adds 0 value to the conversation. It isn't useful feedback nor is it good faith.

By the way, it is technically a rule not to do this. Not that anyone ever followed it. But if people find it ok to say things like that, I think it's fine to point out just how rude it is to do so.

not to brag, but i think that's completely bs.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#12  April 05, 2022, 10:17:35 pm
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So let me get this straight, you're saying that it's so rude to say "nice character, but i prefer pots style", which means it's not right to the forum, is this a new rule?


It's common sense. If it has to be explained I guess it's not so common.

Just be nice and helpful toward others.
Don't derail the topic.
Give constructive criticism.
Share your opinion only if it may improve the quality of the character/stage/screenpack/etc., not change it completely to suit your "needs" and tastes ("this is not in X style" doesn't help anybody).

I mean, if the topic is called "CvS2 Shingo" why do you say "Nice but I prefer Infinite style?" Don't you really see anything wrong with that?
You would want to help the author make the character more in line with CvS2, or at least find bugs in the character, or not?

Come on, Slandome.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#13  April 05, 2022, 10:23:19 pm
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This is cool, but I prefer JtheSaltyy style myself.
...
 :bjugoi:

Things:
- Dizzy state should reset hitfall
- Can't throw P2 when he's dizzy (might be related)
- Stun takes way too long to reset. It's also not CvS2 style but I guess you already knew that
- Jumps are too long. High jumps even go full screen
- I think he walks faster than Kyo and by the sound of it it's not intentional
- Some setups can get around your fix for the ReversalDef combo bug in Gecchu. CC sweep into Gecchu is one as it shows 0 hits in the combo counter
- Can infinitely jab P2 in the corner if he's in the air. This makes CC sweep xx jab a TOD
- Close HP xx Ni Togi triggers the latter at a distance it won't connect. I think Capcom would just make that move trigger at any distance, but only do the full animation if the first hit connects. Precedent: Ryo HCB+P
- He can kara cancel cancellable normals at pretty much any point
- Oboro: I think light version is too weak (low damage) and medium version is too strong (free juggle state)
- CC damage scaling is acting funny
- Dodge attacks: one should be cancellable and the other a knock down. Also without close/far versions
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Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#14  April 05, 2022, 10:26:33 pm
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It's common sense. If it has to be explained I guess it's not so common.

Just be nice and helpful toward others.
Don't derail the topic.
Give constructive criticism.
Share your opinion only if it may improve the quality of the character/stage/screenpack/etc., not change it completely to suit your "needs" and tastes ("this is not in X style" doesn't help anybody).

I mean, if the topic is called "CvS2 Shingo" why do you say "Nice but I prefer Infinite style?" Don't you really see anything wrong with that?
You would want to help the author make the character more in line with CvS2, or at least find bugs in the character, or not?

Come on, Slandome.

yeah, i guess you're right, maybe people has their own taste, and i'll be honest with you, i'm trying to be nice.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#15  April 05, 2022, 10:46:11 pm
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Great news.
I will not copy paste things already written in feebdacks.

I noticed something.
I don't know if his hitboxes are based on Kyo's hitboxes from CVS series (mostly) but :
Seems like his idle stance hitbox is misplaced or not wide enough (I cannot say)
But I have the feeling you cannot hit his "front" leg in this stance.
The problem might be in other animations light light punch etc... (not checked)
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#16  April 06, 2022, 06:06:32 am
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- Dizzy state should reset hitfall
- Can't throw P2 when he's dizzy (might be related)
- Stun takes way too long to reset. It's also not CvS2 style but I guess you already knew that
- fixed, I forgot include a hitfallset sctrl in the dizzy state
- fixed, i forgot to include p2stateno = 5300 in the triggers
- I did know, the stun value reset mechanic was a very finicky one to work with, but I changed the reset time from 400 ticks to 250 ticks, so it should start resetting far sooner

- Jumps are too long. High jumps even go full screen
- I think he walks faster than Kyo and by the sound of it it's not intentional
- Fixed. It was actually a typo in the decimals lol
- The values were taken from Jmorphman's Kyo, not Warusaki's. Jman has the accurate CvS2 values so I used those instead, and Jman's Kyo also walks faster than waru's

- Some setups can get around your fix for the ReversalDef combo bug in Gecchu. CC sweep into Gecchu is one as it shows 0 hits in the combo counter
-fixed. I forgot to account for tripstate/liedown

- Can infinitely jab P2 in the corner if he's in the air. This makes CC sweep xx jab a TOD
- fixed. I forgot to kill juggle after a CC with non-juggleable moves

- Close HP xx Ni Togi triggers the latter at a distance it won't connect. I think Capcom would just make that move trigger at any distance, but only do the full animation if the first hit connects. Precedent: Ryo HCB+P
- you bring up a good point, I didn't really think through how Capcom would implement Ni Togi other than how I would balance out it's unblockable properties. I'll probably do what you suggest, by making Ni Togi connect at any distance and only continuing after the first hit

- He can kara cancel cancellable normals at pretty much any point
- I forgot to make some normals cancellable only on contact. some normals are listed in the readme as only cancellable on contact but I probably forgot to include the right triggers. Regardless I fixed that and added some more on contact only cancellable normals

- Oboro: I think light version is too weak (low damage) and medium version is too strong (free juggle state)
- I thought about this too. To compensate, light Oboro has a better juggle, and medium Oboro has a large dampener put on it, which will make juggles into it do more damage than juggles into light Oboro, but only marginally. Medium Oboro is far more unsafe so failing to combo into it is bad, and Light Oboro is more safe.

- CC damage scaling is acting funny
- Dodge attacks: one should be cancellable and the other a knock down. Also without close/far versions
- Fixed. There were some values in the dampener var (fvar10) that were set far too low, which affected CC damage scaling.
- I forgot to make st.HP knock down, or to be more specific, change the trigger in 220's hitdef, it should knock down and only use close HP as it's animation, st.MK is the cancellable one as it has always been

I don't know if his hitboxes are based on Kyo's hitboxes from CVS series (mostly) but :
Seems like his idle stance hitbox is misplaced or not wide enough (I cannot say)
But I have the feeling you cannot hit his "front" leg in this stance.
The problem might be in other animations light light punch etc... (not checked)
I get where you're coming from. The reason why Shingo's front leg is like this is because his sprites are not aligned the same as Kyo's, they are about 4-5 pixels in front and 2 pixels below. Even then in CvS2 this sort of thing is quite common with characters that share a similar stance like Kyo or Ken

That's just how the hitboxes are crafted in this game, and I'll stick by that as well, but again I understand your concerns as they are valid in that context, I'm just sticking to the source is all.

This is cool, but I prefer JtheSaltyy style myself.
...
 :bjugoi:
Didn't expect you to have that opinion but I'll take that lol. Idk if im going to continue my long line of CvS2R characters, I'll probably do like maybe 2 more, I have one as a WIP. I just feel like I've made enough of em, in total I've made 23 of these chars, not including modes, which would then add it up to like 30. I just feel like that roster is pretty damn complete, but I'll probably get the size to like 25 and I'm finished with em for good, I could even maybe design a game around it who knows, that's just how I envision it.

also to can this argument goin on in here that i had no clue about, i really dont give a shit if you pop in here and say you prefer another character over mine, i just dont. i make these characters for others to enjoy, yes, but i also make them for myself to enjoy, and if i do like them, i dont really care if people are biased towards another version, unless my version has bugs that needs fixing. thats just my take on it, im indifferent to those types of opinions.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#17  April 06, 2022, 11:39:43 am
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- The values were taken from Jmorphman's Kyo, not Warusaki's. Jman has the accurate CvS2 values so I used those instead, and Jman's Kyo also walks faster than waru's
This isn't exactly true, actually. Jmorphman used datamined values from CvS2, but at the time no one knew that there was a discrepancy  between the movement displayed on the screen and the internal movement values. Essentially the game the game is coded for a screen with 358 horizontal pixels, while displaying a screen with 320 horizontal pixels. Because of this, all of the horizontal movement values need to be scaled down to *(320/358). You can read more about it in here. As far as I know none of Jmorphman characters were updated to the reflect this change. In fact, I'd say that the only public releases accounting for this are my characters from Haohmaru and onwards (Terry is outdated).

This very same thing apply to Kyo's hitboxes and hurtboxes btw, that's why JZ updated the dataminer and made it so the "scale CLSNs" would also scale them by (320/358).

Great release Saltyy.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#18  April 06, 2022, 11:55:01 am
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- The values were taken from Jmorphman's Kyo, not Warusaki's. Jman has the accurate CvS2 values so I used those instead, and Jman's Kyo also walks faster than waru's
This isn't exactly true, actually. Jmorphman used datamined values from CvS2, but at the time no one knew that there was a discrepancy  between the movement displayed on the screen and the internal movement values. Essentially the game the game is coded for a screen with 358 horizontal pixels, while displaying a screen with 320 horizontal pixels. Because of this, all of the horizontal movement values need to be scaled down to *(320/358). You can read more about it in here. As far as I know none of Jmorphman characters were updated to the reflect this change. In fact, I'd say that the only public releases accounting for this are my characters from Haohmaru and onwards (Terry is outdated).

This very same thing apply to Kyo's hitboxes and hurtboxes btw, that's why JZ updated the dataminer and made it so the "scale CLSNs" would also scale them by (320/358).

Great release Saltyy.
interesting, i dont completely know the ins and outs of datamining quite yet, even if i used to know more back then, regardless the horizontal vels should be multiplied by 320/358 as follows, as for the hitboxes I didn't rip em myself so thats on me, but i dont think im gonna start all over with them quite yet lol, im being a little lazy here but in my defense i just think the hitboxes look fine unscaled as is, but thanks for the info.
Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#19  April 06, 2022, 12:03:17 pm
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Re: CvS2 Shingo Release
#20  April 06, 2022, 05:49:18 pm
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- Stun takes way too long to reset. It's also not CvS2 style but I guess you already knew that
- I did know, the stun value reset mechanic was a very finicky one to work with, but I changed the reset time from 400 ticks to 250 ticks, so it should start resetting far sooner
Just to be clear, I was talking about the actual stun points, as seen in your debug info. In CvS2 they reset straight to 0 after a couple of seconds without hitting P2. But even for a custom stun system, yours regenerate so slowly that, in the setting of a real match, they don't regenerate at all.

Quote
- I think he walks faster than Kyo and by the sound of it it's not intentional
- The values were taken from Jmorphman's Kyo, not Warusaki's. Jman has the accurate CvS2 values so I used those instead, and Jman's Kyo also walks faster than waru's
I wasn't really comparing it to any existing char. In JMorphman's defense, I think he'd have figured it out sooner if character feedback weren't such a rare commodity.

Quote
- Can infinitely jab P2 in the corner if he's in the air. This makes CC sweep xx jab a TOD
- fixed. I forgot to kill juggle after a CC with non-juggleable moves
I was giving CC as an example (medium Oboro works too), but it happens even without a knockdown. As in just plain jabbing of death. This was a problem with Warusaki's chars too.

Quote
This is cool, but I prefer JtheSaltyy style myself.
...
 :bjugoi:
Didn't expect you to have that opinion but I'll take that lol. Idk if im going to continue my long line of CvS2R characters, I'll probably do like maybe 2 more, I have one as a WIP. I just feel like I've made enough of em, in total I've made 23 of these chars, not including modes, which would then add it up to like 30. I just feel like that roster is pretty damn complete, but I'll probably get the size to like 25 and I'm finished with em for good, I could even maybe design a game around it who knows, that's just how I envision it.
I was just making fun of the whole exchange in this thread. It's not like we have an excess supply of CvS2 chars with Warusaki and everyone else retired.
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