The Mugen Fighters Guild

M.U.G.E.N Central => Your Releases, 1.0+ => Topic started by: PotS on January 15, 2022, 10:28:50 AM

Title: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PotS on January 15, 2022, 10:28:50 AM
Hi everyone. For some of you, it's been a while. For the others, it's nice to meet you.

Anyway, even after I disappeared and up until 2014, I still did some updates on my stuff from time to time, but I never felt they were substantial enough to bother repackaging and reuploading everything.

Then a couple months ago I somehow stumbled across the latest version of Ikemen Go, and was so impressed with how far it's come along that I started messing around with Mugen for the hell of it. This time I feel that the updates are so big that it'd be a waste not to share them.

The idea of remaking my older characters did not interest me, but in the end I changed so many things that I might as well have. I wanted them to be closer to the later characters in several aspects and I think I managed to do it.

Initially I was making everything for Mugen 1.1, but then I realized it's not quite as polished as 1.0 and that half the community still uses 1.0, so I kept them for 1.0 while improving compatibility with 1.1.

The plan now is to release updates more or less in chronological order, gather feedback, do the necessary corrections and then update everyone again. So let me know what you find and maybe this time I won't take 12 years to fix it.

Some changes may affect the characters quite a bit, so you should keep the old versions in case you like them better.

TL;DR:

Get them here. (https://www.mediafire.com/folder/6bji8e36narp6/Characters)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: GTOAkira on January 15, 2022, 10:51:49 AM
Holy shit Pots is back
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Momotaro on January 15, 2022, 10:52:39 AM
Oh, good news.
And nice to see you around.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: AiRiC on January 15, 2022, 10:55:16 AM
Wow Im shocked ill test these once Im free to do so.... Looking forward to a Dan update and Id throw you some bold characters requests because your POTS but I'm just so happy to see you back in the fold at least for the time being.
Glad youre doing good :)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: KarmaCharmeleon on January 15, 2022, 11:09:29 AM
Glad to see you're back!! :)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: PlasmoidThunder on January 15, 2022, 11:21:35 AM
He returneth!

Welcome back :)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Trololo on January 15, 2022, 11:28:13 AM
Damn, that's one thing I never thought would happen. Welcome back to this creek of a MUGEN! I'll edit this post with the feedback if I'll find something.
===Promised edit with feedback===
-Has literally no problems with Guy outside of his damage. Compared to his older versions, he feels SERIOUSLY biffed. Literally, comparing his X, X, Y, Z, d,db, b, PP combos, you can tell your new version got ~25% boost. Is it intended?
-Now with Ryu it's more interesting, but I'll start off with a nitpick: are 6th hits of EX Tatsumakis intended?
-Kaze no Ken is a really nice addition to Ryu, but why its Red CLSN lasts for his whole stance? Isn't counter moves' deal to be punishable as hell on wrong read? The way this move is RN, with Red CLSN for its almost whole length and being able to catch the hits of all 3 directions (Standing, Crouching and Airborne), this move looks anything BUT pinishable.
-Evil Ryu's EX Hadoken still puts fire on the opponent.
-Evil Ryu's EX Tatsumaki voiceline is noticeably less lous than his other ones. The same goes to Evil Ryu's moan on collapse after Ryukoku Hadoken.
Shit, man, your chars are almost perfect, and that's after ~8 years of hiatus. If that ain't amazing, then I don't know what is.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Diek Stiekem on January 15, 2022, 11:44:15 AM
What sorcery is this?!
Welcome back!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Mysticus92 on January 15, 2022, 12:04:18 PM
An old legend is back!
Welcome back, POTS!
We missed you so much.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: lizvalentine on January 15, 2022, 12:16:23 PM
i joined the whole mugen community very recently and i've seen your name talked about as if it were a myth

i wasn't imagining i'd actually get to see you post anything once again

it'll be interesting to see you actually post things again and frankly i'm interested in seeing how the existing pots creators respond to some of these system mechanic changes and similar

hope i see you around
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: GTAguy on January 15, 2022, 12:48:40 PM
The legendary creator himself is back.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on January 15, 2022, 01:54:07 PM
Often imitated...never duplicated. Looking forward to seeing what the person responsible for creating my favorite Geese of all time has instore for us.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: DNZRX768 on January 15, 2022, 02:12:48 PM
Holy smokes, POTS's back!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: JuniT on January 15, 2022, 02:16:13 PM
I'm shocked. Welcome Back!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Aʟᴇᴊᴀɴᴅʀᴏ on January 15, 2022, 02:22:56 PM
The Man, the Myth, The Legend, welcome back.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Lurker on January 15, 2022, 02:26:35 PM
What? This is unexpected.
Welcome back!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Ness on January 15, 2022, 02:43:31 PM
So far ...

I'm for sure loving the new fx ...

Haven't found any major issues or bugs ... but man; I couldn't help but dive right in when I saw this ... holy crap the legend has returned!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: 087-B on January 15, 2022, 03:06:03 PM
Holy fuck, POTS is back—

Jeeessuuuuus. Welcome back man. What even the Hell.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: oraora? on January 15, 2022, 03:54:19 PM
big surprise of the beginning of the year  :o welcome back man  :8):
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: sergioprft on January 15, 2022, 03:56:40 PM
The return of the king!!!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: HadeS on January 15, 2022, 04:08:00 PM
Glad to see you around again, PotS! It's been a very long time! I'm really happy to see you again!  :hyo:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: TRUEMicah on January 15, 2022, 04:38:50 PM
I haven't had Mugen on my PC in years but your updates are more than a reason to redownload the game.  Great to see you again!
Spoiler: Corny joke (click to see content)

 
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Ryu From Streets™ on January 15, 2022, 04:43:52 PM
I'm SHOOK right now.

The man really is back.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: XANDERAC on January 15, 2022, 04:45:52 PM
Welcome back, your projects were some of the first things I ran into when I started getting into mugen content myself years ago, it's great to see you back
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Kirishima on January 15, 2022, 05:16:13 PM
WHAT YEAR IS IT

 :yuno:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Jotaro_Joestar on January 15, 2022, 05:34:14 PM
It's good to see you back, PotS.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: kamui 2.0 on January 15, 2022, 05:41:26 PM
I can't believe it, I just can't Believe it, welcome back my friend ! awesome thing
hope next will be warusakisan
OMG, It reminds that I have been here for so long, I'm so old
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Ganbare-Lucifer on January 15, 2022, 05:46:40 PM
The Return Of The King indeed

My god.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: SuliOfTheNerdVaid Suli on January 15, 2022, 05:56:36 PM
Who would have thought that the king would return this year?! Welcome back POTS
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Foobs on January 15, 2022, 06:02:16 PM
Good to see you back, Prince Phillip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip_movement)!

The in-built movelist doesn't change if you're playing Evil/Master Ryu either through pals or their own defs, is that a bug or...? because there doesn't seem to be a point to this feature if Ikemen's own movelist function does the same but it would at least let you give the alternate defs their own movelist file.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: PotS on January 15, 2022, 06:13:50 PM
Thanks for the kind words.

WHAT YEAR IS IT

 :yuno:
;D

-Has literally no problems with Guy outside of his damage. Compared to his older versions, he feels SERIOUSLY biffed. Literally, comparing his X, X, Y, Z, d,db, b, PP combos, you can tell your new version got ~25% boost. Is it intended?
It's intended, yes. I realized the older characters did puny damage from pokes. It's been a while, but I think they were like that because I originally based their damages around Mugen standards (e.g. 20, 40, 60 for normal attacks) before I started using game data. Compared to a moderately accurate SF character that's very low.

Your particular example of the Bushin chain does seem a bit overpowered because it has a lot more utility than in the source games. I'll look into it.

-Now with Ryu it's more interesting, but I'll start off with a nitpick: are 6th hits of EX Tatsumakis intended?
It was. But now that you mention it, several SF games have come out since I made the character and I think it does 5 hits there. I may change it for consistency.

-Kaze no Ken is a really nice addition to Ryu
Thanks. He needed a better Level 2 and I think Reppu Jinrai Shou works a lot better in its current place.

but why its Red CLSN lasts for his whole stance? Isn't counter moves' deal to be punishable as hell on wrong read? The way this move is RN, with Red CLSN for its almost whole length and being able to catch the hits of all 3 directions (Standing, Crouching and Airborne), this move looks anything BUT pinishable.
You're right. I was afraid it'd be useless like most counter supers and may have made it too strong. Will look into it.

-Evil Ryu's EX Hadoken still puts fire on the opponent.
Messed that up when copy/pasting code. Will fix.

-Evil Ryu's EX Tatsumaki voiceline is noticeably less lous than his other ones. The same goes to Evil Ryu's moan on collapse after Ryukoku Hadoken.
I didn't change that, so you're the first one to point it out. Will look into it.

OMG, It reminds that I have been here for so long, I'm so old
I know. It's weird to think I last released something almost exactly 12 years ago.

The in-built movelist doesn't change if you're playing Evil/Master Ryu either through pals or their own defs, is that a bug or...? because there doesn't seem to be a point to this feature if Ikemen's own movelist function does the same but it would at least let you give the alternate defs their own movelist file.
That's odd. It does change in mine.
I'm still debating on whether the movelists stay or not, but I'm inclined to adding them to every character.
Ikemen's movelist feature may have partially inspired me to add them, but I thought people using Mugen need it too.

Almost the same could be said for the stun system. But more than a cute feature I realized the stun mechanic is integral to SF characters. It's a perfect marriage with Ryu since he already had two moves that did stun, but I'm planning to add it to every character as well.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: GreatFunk on January 15, 2022, 06:14:58 PM
welcome back, man.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: DauntlessMonk7 on January 15, 2022, 06:36:46 PM

TL;DR:

GUY (https://www.mediafire.com/file/1irs7y62bk2soh9/guy_pots.zip/file)

RYU (https://www.mediafire.com/file/kwrwf6ttb5fgtme/ryu_pots.zip/file)

Ah, great to see you again, PotS! ^w^

Ryu and Guy seem pretty good so far.

Although I’m personally not really a big fan of the white flashes during the super finish and a successful Kaze No Ken, they kind of hurt my eyes.

Also, I saw someone say that Ryu’s opponent can get stuck when Kaze no Ken’s canceled into a level 1 super.

Still, their pretty great updates, and I look forward to seeing what you do with updates to your other characters.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: MightyKombat on January 15, 2022, 06:40:26 PM
Putting the usual loud cheering and praise and actual feedback aside it's nice of you to add author addendums to your def files so we don't override another author's characters we may wanna keep.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Foobs on January 15, 2022, 06:49:25 PM
That's odd. It does change in mine.
I went and double checked to make sure I wasn't seeing things and...the movelist function does work fine on mugen 1.1, but not on Ikemen Go 0.98.1

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Probably an engine issue and not an error on your end, so I'll go bug Khatos and Gacel.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Gritsmaster on January 15, 2022, 06:55:24 PM
This is huge. Welcome back!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Beta158 on January 15, 2022, 06:55:50 PM
Has the world gone mad!!!!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Hero on January 15, 2022, 07:05:20 PM
Just tested Ryu. Feels different from the original in a good way, can't really pinpoint what is it, but feels more enjoyable. I really liked the Shinkuu Hadoken. Also, the default pallete looks really good.

Nice to see a legend!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Amidweiz on January 15, 2022, 07:09:30 PM
Wow one thing I didn't expect this year was POTS returning with updates because of Ikemen GO, very much putting said engine in high regard now. I do enjoy CC being a lot longer now with more visual cues that it's about to end as well as the effects being a whole lot more chunkier than before.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: RagingRowen on January 15, 2022, 07:13:15 PM
I'm about as gobsmacked as the rest of y'all, but that's not my focus.
My focus for this post is unleashing feedback!

I'm using JtheSaltyy's edit of Stupa's Training for this.

Hitsparks are okay but I feel like they could A. Be Higher-Res, B. Use Stronger Colors.
I also personally like the way you made wall-bounce have P2 home in on Ryu/Guy somewhat, it makes followups easier.

Ryu:
- Could Joudan and Ryusokyaku (outside of Master Mode) not be HCF (the real command) instead of QCF?
- EX Joudan is awkward in the corner since fighters switch sides during the bounce.
- Shinkuu Hadouken can be problematic at times because there's points where only a few of its hitpoints will hit for certain combos.
- P2 freezes when you go from Kaze No Ken into Denjin. https://streamable.com/jfxftj
Guy:
- Might I suggest giving Bushin Izuna Otoshi a separate command? It'll make it easier for when I want to use Izuna no Hiji Otoshi instead.
- Bushin Hassou Ken should launch air P2 a bit higher since it won't connect fully from, for example, Houzantou.
- Bushin Musou Renge is a bit strange with the Alpha Hitsounds.

Other suggestions would be adding a config for A. Stun, in-case you prefer to not have it for consistency purposes, and B. Movelists, so you don't accidentally do it in a match or something.
I'm also conflicted by Custom Combo becoming 2 Bars. I understand that it got more time, but I feel like it needs something else to be more viable in a real match, like being able to cancel into it.

I lastly wonder what evilryu_preload.sff is about. Is it an Ikemen leftover by chance?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Emerie The G.O.A.T on January 15, 2022, 08:11:32 PM
 Phantom?! :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Akito on January 15, 2022, 08:26:07 PM
Good to see you again friend!

PS: I'm shocked, honestly, because this will give a little more life to creations in this style.

As we say in Brazil: O PAI TÁ ON!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Gacel on January 15, 2022, 08:38:44 PM
That's odd. It does change in mine.
I went and double checked to make sure I wasn't seeing things and...the movelist function does work fine on mugen 1.1, but not on Ikemen Go 0.98.1

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Probably an engine issue and not an error on your end, so I'll go bug Khatos and Gacel.

So about this.
It has been confirmed it works on Mugen 1.0/1.1 but not on Ikemen GO.
So it's a bug on the engine side.

We will get it fixed.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: extravagant on January 15, 2022, 08:41:19 PM
Hey POTS, good to see you back. Hey do you plan on giving Ryu his CvS2 CLSNs? There's tools available for getting actual data from CvS2/CFJ now. Jmorphman and a small handful of others that "carried the POTS torch" while you were gone, continued your legacy but also used those great tools that let them datamine hitboxes and velocities.

It would be great if you experimented with those tools made by JZ (Jesuszilla) because it would consistently blend in with Jmorphman's Ken etc

Also POTS, IKEMEN GO is really great. The engine is still in its infancy but there's so much potential for it to be explored. You should see our tournaments that we host. We have a "CvS2 vs POTS" community & tournament and also other stuff. Anyways, good stuff.

Please reach out to your old friends sometime like JZ and Vans. See you around.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: theroyalrabite on January 15, 2022, 09:11:15 PM
I wasn't around when you were last creating, but welcome back to the community, you've been much missed, and as many have said, in your absence you've become one of our Urban Legends. Well, it'll be cool as heck to try out your most recent works, and I look forward to whatever else you decide to do!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: jenngra505 on January 15, 2022, 09:36:00 PM
So glad to have you back POTS! I'm also glad you show almost as much interest in IKEMEN as I do, can't wait to see it grow into something better than either 1.X Mugen versions.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: DJMouF on January 15, 2022, 09:41:49 PM
I'll def be checking them out. I'm late to the grand return of the goat himself. If it wasn't for you I wouldn't be making the chars I'm working on. Thank you for all that you've done. I didn't expect any of this. I was a youngin when you released your chars. See how much has changed? I never thought Mugen wouldn't have gotten this advanced. But looking forward for you updates.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Ness on January 15, 2022, 09:42:50 PM
Last year it was CM Punk, 2022 got Pots; this is just great!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Jmorphman on January 15, 2022, 09:45:34 PM
:flipout:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Nintendo DS on January 15, 2022, 09:56:42 PM
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one!
Welcome back, King. ;D
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Ryu From Streets™ on January 15, 2022, 09:58:42 PM
 >:D

Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: SOLIDUS SNAKE on January 15, 2022, 10:14:35 PM
Now that was a very awesome video, showing tribute to him. It’s not often, we get the opportunity to experience the living legends again. Welcome back man!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: PlasmoidThunder on January 15, 2022, 10:20:24 PM
I feel like it'd be helpful to have the stun be visible somehow, as that's pretty vital information to the player and the opponent.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: ZolidSone on January 16, 2022, 12:03:04 AM
It's honestly good to see you back after all these years. I mostly do aesthetic feedback specifically for your style of characters and OHMSBY's. Guess my excitement of seeing you back happen to make my internet go down for a few hours coincidently, so I couldn't post it last night. So please bear with me and I'll have it later tonight hopefully.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Staubhold on January 16, 2022, 01:07:45 AM
PotS?!?!? Oh wow!!!
Welcome back!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: beterhans on January 16, 2022, 01:30:02 AM
The 1st time I opened this link, it's like
someone given me a wrong link?

open it again.
wait the time stamp is 2 hours ago? hay it's 2022...
Wow it POTS himself.

I enjoyed your new updated, new FX looks cooler than before.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on January 16, 2022, 01:39:16 AM
OH MY GOD!!! OH MY GOOOOOOODDDDD!!!! !!!! I can't believe it, its actually you. THE P.O.T.S. himself! I'm having a heart attack, holy shit, your chars have been some of my favourites and your Morrigan especially has been one of the very first MUGEN chars I fell in love with! Its so good to see you back to the MUGEN scene!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: ShiroTori on January 16, 2022, 02:05:57 AM
Welcome back PotS! It's always exciting seeing such a celebrated person in a community return! Mugen really just has this way of pulling people back in doesn't it? ^^

I'm enjoying Ryu and Guy's updates so far. Guy was one of my favourites of yours and, while there has been updates to him from other creators, it's awesome a new version of him is here.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Retro Respecter on January 16, 2022, 02:30:30 AM
I can't believe I'm meeting the legend himself!!!!!!!!

Let's give it up for POTS, everybody!!!!!!!!!!!

Audience:  :muttrox: :nuttrox: :jester: :party: :party2: ...

Officer:  :stop: You are in direct violation of COVID-19 Protocols! Cease these crowd gatherings at once, or you all will be under arrest!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Cook1988 on January 16, 2022, 03:30:13 AM
When the world needed him most, he returned.

Welcome back, you legend.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Zazamyon2 on January 16, 2022, 04:03:44 AM
Welcome back to mugen POTS!
Thank you for all your contributions to us that have created a stable playstyle to enjoy.

Ryu Testing Feedback:

- Found an Intro State Bug during Turns Mode.


EDIT: Ignore all this lol theres nothing wrong with him hes awesome. my mugen was being obnoxious
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: AuMiO VXC on January 16, 2022, 05:33:50 AM
Great Update on Ryu and Guy. And welcome back, man!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Gacel on January 16, 2022, 07:15:17 AM
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

I checked. Also K4thos checked, it works in the last Release Candidate of 0.98.2.
So it's gonna be fixed on future releases.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Sennou-Room on January 16, 2022, 10:29:09 AM
Nice to meet you, I'm a Japanese mugen user.
I've been playing with many of your products for a long time.
I'm also a person who creates characters based on the play style you created.

I am happy to be able to send you a message in this way.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: dakidbanks on January 16, 2022, 10:41:24 AM
I wonder if over the years POTS has checked out edits of his chars ppl have done like from beterhans
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on January 16, 2022, 02:54:18 PM
I wonder if over the years POTS has checked out edits of his chars ppl have done like from beterhans

He has. Most people think he just resurfaced but I remember him popping up in a release thread of a "POTS" style character commenting on how he didn't expect his style to become so popular.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: PotS on January 16, 2022, 03:30:33 PM
Thanks again.
By the way, I guess that was ambiguous in the first post, but my only plan right now is to update stuff.

Although I’m personally not really a big fan of the white flashes during the super finish and a successful Kaze No Ken, they kind of hurt my eyes.
I understand, but for the time being I like them like that. I kept switching Kaze no Ken between white and black backgrounds and ended up choosing white. Either way 50% of players will always prefer it the other way around.

Putting the usual loud cheering and praise and actual feedback aside it's nice of you to add author addendums to your def files so we don't override another author's characters we may wanna keep.
I should've done that from the beginning, hehe.

I went and double checked to make sure I wasn't seeing things and...the movelist function does work fine on mugen 1.1, but not on Ikemen Go 0.98.1

Probably an engine issue and not an error on your end, so I'll go bug Khatos and Gacel.
Probably an issue with manipulating explods during a pause. Mugen itself gave me trouble unless I did everything the way it wanted me to. Either way good to know that's one less issue with Ikemen.

Hitsparks are okay but I feel like they could A. Be Higher-Res, B. Use Stronger Colors.
I wanted to use Mugen's default spark system for a change, so with sticking to 1.0 I had to make them lower resolution. They were high resolution when the updates were for 1.1.

- Could Joudan and Ryusokyaku (outside of Master Mode) not be HCF (the real command) instead of QCF?
Neither is strong enough to make the command needlessly complicated. I think Capcom only made them HCF to avoid issues with the classic crouching medium kick xx Hadouken.

- EX Joudan is awkward in the corner since fighters switch sides during the bounce.
Will fix.

- Shinkuu Hadouken can be problematic at times because there's points where only a few of its hitpoints will hit for certain combos.
That's intentional after you hit the juggle limit. I could just as easily make all hits either connect or miss, but I think it'd be less interesting that way.

- P2 freezes when you go from Kaze No Ken into Denjin.
Haha. Obviously not staying like that.

- Might I suggest giving Bushin Izuna Otoshi a separate command? It'll make it easier for when I want to use Izuna no Hiji Otoshi instead.
I guess that's one of those cases where it's just always been like that. It makes it different from Gouki's flip.

- Bushin Hassou Ken should launch air P2 a bit higher since it won't connect fully from, for example, Houzantou.
You're right. I tweaked that and may have made it worse. Will fix.

- Bushin Musou Renge is a bit strange with the Alpha Hitsounds.
I know what you mean, but for some reason it never sounds right to me with other hit sounds. Even when he used the CvS2 hitsounds I opened an exception there.

Other suggestions would be adding a config for A. Stun, in-case you prefer to not have it for consistency purposes, and B. Movelists, so you don't accidentally do it in a match or something.
That would certainly solve it, but I'm not a fan of config files.

I'm also conflicted by Custom Combo becoming 2 Bars. I understand that it got more time, but I feel like it needs something else to be more viable in a real match, like being able to cancel into it.
Custom Combos have dominated every game they were in, so they're hardly not viable, hehe. To me, with one bar they can be overpowered as Custom Combos always find a way to be. With three bars I'd rather just do a Shin Shoryuken or whatever. 2 bars is just right.

I lastly wonder what evilryu_preload.sff is about. Is it an Ikemen leftover by chance?
It's for Ikemen Go but it's not a leftover. It makes the game load faster or, in this case, allows me to give different portraits to a different .def file.

Hey POTS, good to see you back. Hey do you plan on giving Ryu his CvS2 CLSNs? There's tools available for getting actual data from CvS2/CFJ now. Jmorphman and a small handful of others that "carried the POTS torch" while you were gone, continued your legacy but also used those great tools that let them datamine hitboxes and velocities.
I came across Jesuszilla's work in some article about hitboxes or whatever. It made me proud of him and the Mugen scene. Felineki too, if I recall correctly. With that said, my characters are not CvS2 characters, and hitboxes are something that changes every game and sometimes several times for the same game. Unless you're trying to be accurate to a specific game, what matters is that you make them good, and I think the new ones for Ryu are much better than they were.

I feel like it'd be helpful to have the stun be visible somehow, as that's pretty vital information to the player and the opponent.
A case could be made either way, but I'm also not a fan of adding more bars to the screen. In my defense, most games don't have one.

- Found an Intro State Bug during Turns Mode.

EDIT: Ignore all this lol theres nothing wrong with him hes awesome. my mugen was being obnoxious
You still made me curious, so I went and found a stupid mistake in that intro. Easy fix.

I wonder if over the years POTS has checked out edits of his chars ppl have done like from beterhans
I did it recently to find out where I could get Ryusokyaku sprites, haha.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: RagingRowen on January 16, 2022, 04:41:41 PM
I'm also conflicted by Custom Combo becoming 2 Bars. I understand that it got more time, but I feel like it needs something else to be more viable in a real match, like being able to cancel into it.
Custom Combos have dominated every game they were in, so they're hardly not viable, hehe. To me, with one bar they can be overpowered as Custom Combos always find a way to be. With three bars I'd rather just do a Shin Shoryuken or whatever. 2 bars is just right.

I was referring to the fact that it goes away when you take a hit, which makes it a lot more risky IMO, compared to the likes of MAX Mode.

The likes of DivineWolf/DW have made MAX Mode (Replacing CC) viable in your style by allowing EX Moves and Supers under the cost of 1 Power Bar. His works aren't online but there are backups in his release threads if you're curious. It's okay if you aren't intersted, I'm just tossing out suggestions.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: aznpikachu215 on January 16, 2022, 05:17:44 PM
Oh, dang! Pots is back!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: KarmaCharmeleon on January 16, 2022, 05:41:42 PM
Other suggestions would be adding a config for A. Stun, in-case you prefer to not have it for consistency purposes, and B. Movelists, so you don't accidentally do it in a match or something.
I'm also conflicted by Custom Combo becoming 2 Bars. I understand that it got more time, but I feel like it needs something else to be more viable in a real match, like being able to cancel into it.
Being able to cancel into Custom Combo is an idea that has proven to be awful.
https://streamable.com/o379wa
Imagine Sakura being able to ShoSho without having to setup at all?
I was referring to the fact that it goes away when you take a hit, which makes it a lot more risky IMO, compared to the likes of MAX Mode.
If you pop Custom Combo on the expected situations it's either because:
a) You setup a blockstring/loop.
b) You're making a read with the invincibility and you intend to whiff punish with CC.

If it's a) you won't get interrupted because if you're using it correctly your string or combo won't end up before CC time runs out. If it's b) and you make the wrong read, it's expected to be punished just like you would if your super gets interrupted.

BTW the link is tight but you setup a CC string from Standing Light Punch.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: DW on January 16, 2022, 09:34:14 PM
I've played an arcade run with him(Ryu), a great update indeed. A few things of note:

-Any particular reason why normal Ryu can no longer do Seichuu Nidan Tsuki? Just curious, and I do find myself missing this as I pretty much associated this with your Ryu.

-Ryu can cancel into air tatsu from j.lp/lk in CvS2. Yours used to be able to cancel from all his air normals, and I get overall why you changed it. Though it'd be nice to allow him to cancel from j.lp/lk. All the shotos can do it, and I know it isn't as useful with Ryu as opposed to Akuma or Ken, but he(Ryu) can still go into an EX DP from it.

-Some of his normals seem to allow empty(kara?)/non-hit confirm cancels. Is this something from like.... SF5 or something?  For example, I can do cr.mk and immediately do an QCF + P input, Ryu will cancel out of the cr.mk and do hadou. It's one of several, though there doesn't appear to be any consistency/pattern of which ones allow this. So, it doesn't feel intentional...? Which is why I bring it up.

I'll try out Guy and Ryu's other modes later.



I was referring to the fact that it goes away when you take a hit, which makes it a lot more risky IMO, compared to the likes of MAX Mode.

The likes of DivineWolf/DW have made MAX Mode (Replacing CC) viable in your style by allowing EX Moves and Supers under the cost of 1 Power Bar. His works aren't online but there are backups in his release threads if you're curious. It's okay if you aren't intersted, I'm just tossing out suggestions.

Not being able to block and losing it when taking a hit are pretty legit, considering how powerful CC can be. Especially with the right chars and right setup. I can see where you're coming from, as you're so used to how he had it before. Though I can also see his POV as well, as I know full well how powerful CC is. I'm not sure what you're getting it with what I've done though.

Two bars at the end of the day, just makes it more "tactical"....? By that, I mean you aren't as likely to waste it, because you'll be punished more for doing so at the wrong time. More thought has to be put into when and how you use it.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: FirePony on January 16, 2022, 10:07:35 PM
POTS. Oo' Just... Thank you for everything.
And welcome back to MUGEN! :)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: WF4123 on January 17, 2022, 09:37:32 AM
Man, long time no see, bro... It's been a while that you're back.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on January 17, 2022, 05:50:22 PM
It felt awesome to download a "POTS style" character by the man himself. In fact it almost feels like a slight to call it that...

Ryu/Normal: When he starts his super tatsumaki, he leaps slightly backwards causing him to occasionally miss the first hit.

Ryu/Evil; He can hit opponents on the ground 3 times( I suspect if they don't tech or get up fast enough) with his Ryusokyaku. That's savage but is it intentional? He also slides a couple pixels forward with each level he charges his Metsu Hadoken.

Minor feedback from a guy who usually only critiques stages. But Since it's you and it's Ryu I felt it deserved a proper test. Now to check out Guy...
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: MightyKombat on January 17, 2022, 09:17:38 PM
Also gotta ask, how come you never gave Guy his FF3 fire burst special or his rapid punch super?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on January 17, 2022, 09:37:40 PM
Also gotta ask, how come you never gave Guy his FF3 fire burst special or his rapid punch super?

These would make great lvl 2's actually. Guy already has his bases covered on lvl 1's.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Thedge on January 17, 2022, 09:59:38 PM
Welcome back PoTS, nice to have you back!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: walt on January 17, 2022, 11:31:43 PM
Woah, Lé POTS is back. Nice to see you again mang
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: TotalDramaXtremist on January 18, 2022, 07:09:58 AM
Don't believe anyone had Phantom.of.the.Server making a return to the MUGEN scene on their bingo cards, so this is actually a nice surprise!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Bakudan on January 18, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
It’s amazing to see you back. I still remembered when your Ryu was still a WIP and you wanted to make a Ryu that included everything. Now that you are back and Karma is making a new Ryu that supposedly includes everything, it’s a very wholesome deja-vu. Thank you.

A bug I noticed is that Ryu would do his usual Ken intros even against Jmorphman’s Violent Ken.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Next Zero on January 18, 2022, 11:10:26 AM
Oh, good news.
Welcome back!

Nice to meet you, I'm a Japanese mugen user.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: ryuhoshi490 on January 18, 2022, 04:44:16 PM
your return make 2022 a epic year. thanks for all your old and new work
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: vyn on January 18, 2022, 05:26:42 PM
Heyyy, great to see updates from you man.

On the updates themselves, i really like the addition of modern moves and the new lvl3 evil portrait is damn cool.

Why the low res hitsparks though?, its like the one thing people do the most when they edit characters into your aesthetics bro.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: BahamianKing242 on January 18, 2022, 09:12:29 PM
oh damn POTS! welcome back brother! thanks to you we have many chars in your style!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Miru962 on January 18, 2022, 09:46:44 PM
Phantom of the Server?

THE Phantom of the Server?

I can't believe it. It doesn't seem they have new moves yet, but these are nice to see anyway with their revamped controls. I do like performing Negative Edge combos with these characters. I do have a few questions?

1. Will you consider an advanced buffering system, similar to JMorphman's characters?
2. As for new moves, will games like Street Fighter: The Movie and Final Fight Revenge be considered?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Bakudan on January 18, 2022, 09:54:28 PM
Heyyy, great to see updates from you man.

On the updates themselves, i really like the addition of modern moves and the new lvl3 evil portrait is damn cool.

Why the low res hitsparks though?, its like the one thing people do the most when they edit characters into your aesthetics bro.


He explained it.

Hitsparks are okay but I feel like they could A. Be Higher-Res, B. Use Stronger Colors.
I wanted to use Mugen's default spark system for a change, so with sticking to 1.0 I had to make them lower resolution. They were high resolution when the updates were for 1.1.

Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: V-Holder on January 18, 2022, 11:45:31 PM
I'm on the very same boat when it comes to being motivated by IKEMEN GO to return to MUGEN after over a decade (in my case, it was 12 years since the last time I actually started downloading characters and stages and playing them instead of just looking at forums). What IKEMEN GO brings to the table is amazing and I can't even fathom going back to the Elecbyte builds.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: PotS on January 19, 2022, 05:40:20 PM
Thanks. It's nice to see some old familiar faces.

I've played an arcade run with him(Ryu), a great update indeed. A few things of note:

-Any particular reason why normal Ryu can no longer do Seichuu Nidan Tsuki? Just curious, and I do find myself missing this as I pretty much associated this with your Ryu.
It's just because he had too many command normals. Rather than having two modes with two Z button command normals, I gave one to each. Also it makes the Lv1 Metsu Shoryuken more unique.

-Ryu can cancel into air tatsu from j.lp/lk in CvS2. Yours used to be able to cancel from all his air normals, and I get overall why you changed it. Though it'd be nice to allow him to cancel from j.lp/lk. All the shotos can do it, and I know it isn't as useful with Ryu as opposed to Akuma or Ken, but he(Ryu) can still go into an EX DP from it.
That's something I'm still pondering. I'm inclined to allow it in the name of fun, yes.

-Some of his normals seem to allow empty(kara?)/non-hit confirm cancels. Is this something from like.... SF5 or something?  For example, I can do cr.mk and immediately do an QCF + P input, Ryu will cancel out of the cr.mk and do hadou. It's one of several, though there doesn't appear to be any consistency/pattern of which ones allow this. So, it doesn't feel intentional...? Which is why I bring it up.
Not intentional. Thanks for pointing it out.

Ryu/Normal: When he starts his super tatsumaki, he leaps slightly backwards causing him to occasionally miss the first hit.
That, on the other hand, is intentional. Ryu's positioning will depend on the button used to perform the move. A moves a bit backward, B stays in place and C moves forward. The A version is very situational.

Ryu/Evil; He can hit opponents on the ground 3 times( I suspect if they don't tech or get up fast enough) with his Ryusokyaku. That's savage but is it intentional?
I'm usually pretty liberal with letting moves hit OTG because of the way Mugen works. It does two things: allows any OTG combo to be escaped by mashing buttons to wake up faster, and applies additional damage scaling to such combos. So it mostly only happens in training mode.
(On that note, Shin Gouki can no longer OTG from everything)

He also slides a couple pixels forward with each level he charges his Metsu Hadoken.
I think you mean the sprite shaking as he charges the fireball. It's intentional but I may reconsider it.

Also gotta ask, how come you never gave Guy his FF3 fire burst special or his rapid punch super?
The fireball I never liked because it clashes with Guy's design, I think. But the rapid punches he did have way, way back in the DOS version. I should try to find that version just for kicks, but it was pretty bad as it was one of my first attempts at making a character.
Now, why did I never add it back, I don't remember...

It’s amazing to see you back. I still remembered when your Ryu was still a WIP and you wanted to make a Ryu that included everything. Now that you are back and Karma is making a new Ryu that supposedly includes everything, it’s a very wholesome deja-vu. Thank you.
Yeah. That takes me back.

A bug I noticed is that Ryu would do his usual Ken intros even against Jmorphman’s Violent Ken.
My bad.

Why the low res hitsparks though?, its like the one thing people do the most when they edit characters into your aesthetics bro.
It was half laziness to recode the sparks, half trying something different. They only replace the low-res CvS2 sparks the old characters had. The "newer" characters still have the hi-res sparks.

I can't believe it. It doesn't seem they have new moves yet, but these are nice to see anyway with their revamped controls. I do like performing Negative Edge combos with these characters.
That's odd. Negative edge (button release) is something my characters have had since the very beginning. Or did you mean something else?

1. Will you consider an advanced buffering system, similar to JMorphman's characters?
You're the second person to ask., but at the moment I don't feel like they need one.

2. As for new moves, will games like Street Fighter: The Movie and Final Fight Revenge be considered?
I think I'm done adding new moves for the time being. But in the past I borrowed moves from anywhere or even made them up, so that's not something I'd dismiss.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: MightyKombat on January 19, 2022, 08:15:10 PM
Fair enough then. Finally, any chance on the SF4 version of Musou Renge or his other ultras or is that probably a bit much?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: BurningSoul on January 20, 2022, 10:20:41 AM
It also seems like the juggle system is different than the one used previously on Geese,and I was wondering what were the changes as I cant tell it apart
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on January 20, 2022, 03:54:30 PM
Ryu/Normal: When he starts his super tatsumaki, he leaps slightly backwards causing him to occasionally miss the first hit.
That, on the other hand, is intentional. Ryu's positioning will depend on the button used to perform the move. A moves a bit backward, B stays in place and C moves forward. The A version is very situational.

I was actually referring to the super version, but I haven't been able to reproduce the effect so it may have been related to the other character or something.

Ryu/Evil; He can hit opponents on the ground 3 times( I suspect if they don't tech or get up fast enough) with his Ryusokyaku. That's savage but is it intentional?
I'm usually pretty liberal with letting moves hit OTG because of the way Mugen works. It does two things: allows any OTG combo to be escaped by mashing buttons to wake up faster, and applies additional damage scaling to such combos. So it mostly only happens in training mode.
(On that note, Shin Gouki can no longer OTG from everything)

That make sense.

He also slides a couple pixels forward with each level he charges his Metsu Hadoken.
I think you mean the sprite shaking as he charges the fireball. It's intentional but I may reconsider it.

After going back I did notice that it's indeed the shaking. It looks like the original sprite is still and another sprite moves back and forth. I thought the entire sprite was moving. The shake moves so quickly and only one pixel. It almost looks like he is expanding rather than blurring or shaking from the rumble of his charge, which I'm guessing is the intended effect.

I didn't notice anything of note from Guy. He's solid as a rock. Really looking forward to Geese and Shin Akuma. And maybe Rare Akuma...(fingers crossed).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: pating on January 21, 2022, 04:28:38 PM
Nice to see you again PoTS. Thank you very much
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: teddylam on January 21, 2022, 05:20:02 PM
I am so glad P.O.T.S by Ken is released in 2022...     :yuno:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: DW on January 22, 2022, 03:36:05 AM
A few more things of note(still with Ryu):

-It appears you can't do things during his run stop animation. Mainly like power charge is what I'm noticing.

-Your forward inputs are being "stored" for several ticks. This was a problem for me as well when I first installed Vans' Tiny Buffer system. I'm not sure as I haven't looked over your code, but I do see now with debug turned on that you are using some type of inputting system not Mugen default. If I tap forward, release for a few ticks, then try to do Hadou, I'll get DP instead.

I find this effects Evil Ryu the most, as he has Seichuu Nidan Tsuki, though since you changed the command for it, I can't reliably do Seichuu -> Hadouken. I'll get DP 85% of the time.

-Ryu overall feels slightly stiffer than your older version in terms of Tatsu -> DP. I used to be able to do this fine with all versions. Of course the only way normal Ryu could combo this was with EX DP, but it was a viable option from time to time with him. Now, even with Evil Ryu, this combo isn't very reliable. P2 often falls before I can get my DP out.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: PotS on January 22, 2022, 11:47:34 AM
Fair enough then. Finally, any chance on the SF4 version of Musou Renge or his other ultras or is that probably a bit much?
The main motivation to add Kaiten Izuna Otoshi was actually so you could do a sequence similar to his Ultra I by chaining his three level 1 supers. As for Ultra II, I currently don't have any plans for it. It certainly looks cool, but it's also too long.

It also seems like the juggle system is different than the one used previously on Geese,and I was wondering what were the changes as I cant tell it apart
Please tell me you only noticed that by looking at the code, because while the implementation is different, it's supposed to work the same (except in Simul).

I was actually referring to the super version, but I haven't been able to reproduce the effect so it may have been related to the other character or something.
Me too. Shinkuu Tatsumaki has different positioning for the A, B, or C buttons.

A few more things of note(still with Ryu):

-It appears you can't do things during his run stop animation. Mainly like power charge is what I'm noticing.
That's a really nice catch. When I changed ctrl behaviour for the run, power charge was left out for some reason. That reason was mass text replacement.

-Your forward inputs are being "stored" for several ticks. This was a problem for me as well when I first installed Vans' Tiny Buffer system. I'm not sure as I haven't looked over your code, but I do see now with debug turned on that you are using some type of inputting system not Mugen default. If I tap forward, release for a few ticks, then try to do Hadou, I'll get DP instead.

I find this effects Evil Ryu the most, as he has Seichuu Nidan Tsuki, though since you changed the command for it, I can't reliably do Seichuu -> Hadouken. I'll get DP 85% of the time.
It's not a buffer but rather a more lenient Shoryuken command. Apparently too lenient indeed.
The helper is not for buffering but just to reverse the commands when P2 is behind you.

-Ryu overall feels slightly stiffer than your older version in terms of Tatsu -> DP. I used to be able to do this fine with all versions. Of course the only way normal Ryu could combo this was with EX DP, but it was a viable option from time to time with him. Now, even with Evil Ryu, this combo isn't very reliable. P2 often falls before I can get my DP out.
Tatsumaki recovery is too long. Will change it.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: BahamianKing242 on January 22, 2022, 03:17:22 PM
love the dizzy feature you added! but i was wondering if you might consider adding guard crush in the future?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: BurningSoul on January 22, 2022, 03:27:44 PM
ye I saw it by just looking and didnt go hardcore on it.Thanks for the updates by the way..Glad to have you around.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: PotS on January 22, 2022, 04:25:13 PM
love the dizzy feature you added! but i was wondering if you might consider adding guard crush in the future?
Thanks. No plans for guard crush, however.

Updated Ryu and Guy again because some of the things you mentioned should not have to wait for a fix.

Added Shin Gouki. Nothing too fancy in the update, but the gameplay should feel more proper now.

Added Lei-Lei. Now this one is interesting. She was one of my worst characters, but after these fixes should be a lot better.

All in the first post.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Guy and Ryu first)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on January 22, 2022, 04:29:42 PM
Lol! Somehow I got credit for DW's feedback. Coincidently I saw those exact same things but thought it was my lack of skills that where the cause. Oh and my bad about the Tatsu. I understand what you meant now.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: DauntlessMonk7 on January 22, 2022, 05:02:44 PM

Added Shin Gouki. Nothing too fancy in the update, but the gameplay should feel more proper now.

Added Lei-Lei. Now this one is interesting. She was one of my worst characters, but after these fixes should be a lot better.


Ah, seems pretty cool, I’ll check them out later.
Any plans for a normal/non-Shin Gouki mode down the line?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: RagingRowen on January 22, 2022, 05:37:44 PM
Feedback and Suggestions for Shin Akuma/Gouki:
- I find it kinda odd that he doesn't have the new Hadouken FX from Ryu.
- I think Hyakki Gou Jin should have faster recovery since it's quite difficult to follow-up afterwards.
- Might I suggest the Messatsu Gou Hadou Agyo from MvC3 to accompany Tenma Renzoku Zankuu which has the same function (A crap ton of Hadous).
EDIT: I just remembered that the height requirement for air specials is too high, so you can't do any from Low Jumps and such.

I don't have much for Lei-Lei but gaining 1/2 Power EX's and Power Charge is hella funny since the likes of Jmorphman's Demitri and Jesuszilla's Felicia followed the roots of the original version.

I might also suggest adding Back Rolls since it really goes against my muscle memory after playing various later characters in this style.

Can I also ask any questions about characters that haven't been updated/released yet?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: KarmaCharmeleon on January 22, 2022, 07:20:55 PM
Lei-Lei plays nice. Here's two of my favorite things to do with her. Sadly she can't do it from jump ins.

https://streamable.com/81cscp
https://streamable.com/y69pui

A couple things about her tho:

* Tenraiha was/is Lei-Lei's best move so it becoming a lv.3 really hurt her, but what hurt the most was the lv.3 super pause. Because of the super pause, Tenraiha lost any use as a mixup tool because you can block after the superpause ends. I'd make it so you can only block before super pause so she gets her mixup back.
* Is it intentional for light gong to be +7 on hit/block but for EX Gong to be -4? In source its the other way around.
* Any chances of making regular blades super cancelable? :x not even sure if max blades would connect but if they could it would be very nice.
* Any reasons she can't do command grab while dashing?
* I'm not sure if it's the pushback on the normals, the range of the throw or its how var(38) behaves (maybe a bit of the three), but I can't do tick throws at all with her command grab.

My experience with Lei-Lei doesn't come from playing her, it mostly comes from playing against her (I only play Sasquatch, Viktor and Jedah); but all in all her rushdown feels different, weaker.
I haven't tested her dark force at all so I might pop up with more feedback later.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Beta158 on January 22, 2022, 07:44:42 PM
Lei Lei best Darkstalkers girl (besides Morrigan and Lilith)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: PotS on January 22, 2022, 08:14:08 PM
Lol! Somehow I got credit for DW's feedback. Coincidently I saw those exact same things but thought it was my lack of skills that where the cause.
Messed up the quotes. I'm out of practice, heh.

Ah, seems pretty cool, I’ll check them out later.
Any plans for a normal/non-Shin Gouki mode down the line?
I don't know. I feel like a normal mode would be just taking things away from him. Plus many people have done that already.

Feedback and Suggestions for Shin Akuma/Gouki:
- I find it kinda odd that he doesn't have the new Hadouken FX from Ryu.
Two reasons I guess. They were made specifically for (another) Ryu, and Shin Gouki already has unique fireball animations.

- I think Hyakki Gou Jin should have faster recovery since it's quite difficult to follow-up afterwards.
You are right. Will change it.

- Might I suggest the Messatsu Gou Hadou Agyo from MvC3 to accompany Tenma Renzoku Zankuu which has the same function (A crap ton of Hadous).
That is 100% something I would have added if MvC3 existed at the time. I'll think about it.

EDIT: I just remembered that the height requirement for air specials is too high, so you can't do any from Low Jumps and such.
It's because special moves are forbidden during low jumps.

I don't have much for Lei-Lei but gaining 1/2 Power EX's and Power Charge is hella funny since the likes of Jmorphman's Demitri and Jesuszilla's Felicia followed the roots of the original version.
I guess they followed the wrong character then because she was kind of bad. Not that doing it one way or the other is better.

I might also suggest adding Back Rolls since it really goes against my muscle memory after playing various later characters in this style.
Back rolls are for turtles. ;P

Can I also ask any questions about characters that haven't been updated/released yet?
I guess that's relevant since they will all be updated in this thread.

* Tenraiha was/is Lei-Lei's best move so it becoming a lv.3 really hurt her, but what hurt the most was the lv.3 super pause. Because of the super pause, Tenraiha lost any use as a mixup tool because you can block after the superpause ends. I'd make it so you can only block before super pause so she gets her mixup back.
On one hand that's a good idea, on the other the move is already very strong. Will think about it.

* Is it intentional for light gong to be +7 on hit/block but for EX Gong to be -4? In source its the other way around.
Nope. That needs to be fixed.

* Any chances of making regular blades super cancelable? :x not even sure if max blades would connect but if they could it would be very nice.
I just thought making a half screen poke cancellable would be odd.

* Any reasons she can't do command grab while dashing?
Must be a change from all those years back because I forgot why I did it. I just checked and it's forbidden in Hunter but allowed in Saviour. Will probably change it.

* I'm not sure if it's the pushback on the normals, the range of the throw or its how var(38) behaves (maybe a bit of the three), but I can't do tick throws at all with her command grab.
Might be a bad trigger for the Hitdef throwing off your timing. Will fix it.

My experience with Lei-Lei doesn't come from playing her, it mostly comes from playing against her (I only play Sasquatch, Viktor and Jedah); but all in all her rushdown feels different, weaker.
Could it be that you play in the community standard of Turbo 3 (I think)? I normally reference Turbo 1 because 3 makes my head spin.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: RagingRowen on January 22, 2022, 08:57:37 PM
Can I also ask any questions about characters that haven't been updated/released yet?
I guess that's relevant since they will all be updated in this thread.

That's good. I ask that because I was wondering if Dan's sprites will be different by any chance, as in will they still be the upscaled sprites you had or will be at a normal size. I always though it was weird.

EDIT: Found a Lei-Lei bug where she falls infinitely if she misses her Zampa. https://streamable.com/slk4xe
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: DauntlessMonk7 on January 22, 2022, 10:59:36 PM
Ah, seems pretty cool, I’ll check them out later.
Any plans for a normal/non-Shin Gouki mode down the line?
I don't know. I feel like a normal mode would be just taking things away from him. Plus many people have done that already.
Ah, ok. I know a lot of other people did that, I was just wondering if you had any interest in doing your own take on a normal Akuma mode.
Can I also ask any questions about characters that haven't been updated/released yet?
I guess that's relevant since they will all be updated in this thread.
Ah, alright then. If it's alright for me to ask, in a similar vein to the Gouki thing earlier, do you have any interest/plans for giving Dictator/Bison/Vega or Geese any extra modes or new moves, like with Ryu? Something I've been thinking about since the Ryu and Guy update came out.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: ZolidSone on January 23, 2022, 01:54:20 AM
After playing the characters for a few days, I don't think I have any issues with the gameplay aside from a few minor bugs. But the problem I have is that the aesthetics feels rather inconsistent with each other and makes them look like they're missing stuff. It's not just the hitsparks, but the shockwaves and landing effects as well. I also noticed that certain effects and sounds don't play exactly the same as the others. If you want me to point out which sounds are missing on each character, I can. This is how I usually do feedback for others of the same style, not just finding bugs.

It was half laziness to recode the sparks, half trying something different. They only replace the low-res CvS2 sparks the old characters had. The "newer" characters still have the hi-res sparks.
Sorry to bring this up again. But now that you said that you don't feel like recoding the hitsparks, why not use these?: https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/accurate-pots-style-fightfx-default-mugen-186537.0.html

Right now, the lo-res ones don't feel consistent with the other hi-res effects. It still reminds me of the Winmugen days.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: xp41 on January 23, 2022, 12:57:58 PM
It only took give or take a decade, but Lei-Lei finally has her dark force. Sweet!

I wasn't around the last time you were active, but I'd still like to add to the chorus of voices welcoming you back

Anyway, I don't think anyone's caught this yet, and I don't know if it's intentional, but her Houten air throw isn't bi-directional. I was also gonna point out the zampa bug but RagingRowen already made note of that
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on January 23, 2022, 04:59:48 PM
May I suggest a change for Hsien-Ko? Whenever she uses a super, her sprites get that rainbowy flashing that characters used to do in Darkstalkers. I think that should be removed, because of your more CvS inspired gameplay, not even your Morrigan has that, so it looks out of place with Hsien-Ko.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Nintendo DS on January 23, 2022, 10:47:16 PM
May I suggest a change for Hsien-Ko? Whenever she uses a super, her sprites get that rainbowy flashing that characters used to do in Darkstalkers. I think that should be removed, because of your more CvS inspired gameplay, not even your Morrigan has that, so it looks out of place with Hsien-Ko.

Because Morrigan was in CvS, her gameplay is different. Hsien-Ko/Lei-Lei was not.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: DW on January 24, 2022, 01:07:55 AM
He's suggesting that Lei-Lei follow suit as with Morrigan. We know she wasn't in it, though if she were, she would have been handled like Morrigan, and that's what Macaulyn is saying.



Personally, in terms of aesthetics I don't care. Though mechanics I do feel they should share mostly consistence. Like Guy not having a stationary dodge always felt odd, as the rest of your chars did. I suppose Lei-Lei is sort of a special case, though it's just a suggestion. I don't back roll often, if at all, so I agree with you there. The only reason I added it myself was due to consistency with mechanics.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: DJ_Pilou-X- on January 24, 2022, 06:27:35 AM
OMG! Welcome Back POTS!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: PotS on January 24, 2022, 10:42:53 AM
That's good. I ask that because I was wondering if Dan's sprites will be different by any chance, as in will they still be the upscaled sprites you had or will be at a normal size. I always though it was weird.
It's still the upscaled sprites. They were what was available at the time and changing them now would mean remaking the air file, the sprite edits, etc, and I don't have time for that. Curiously I did rip them later in SFA scale but never did anything with the sprites.

EDIT: Found a Lei-Lei bug where she falls infinitely if she misses her Zampa. https://streamable.com/slk4xe
It's a high risk maneuver. Hehe, I'll fix that. Good thing I left a worst case scenario in the code or that alone would break the character.

Ah, alright then. If it's alright for me to ask, in a similar vein to the Gouki thing earlier, do you have any interest/plans for giving Dictator/Bison/Vega or Geese any extra modes or new moves, like with Ryu? Something I've been thinking about since the Ryu and Guy update came out.
On the surface Geese has changed very little since I think he was already my best character. Dictator will gain a couple new toys. No new modes however.

After playing the characters for a few days, I don't think I have any issues with the gameplay aside from a few minor bugs. But the problem I have is that the aesthetics feels rather inconsistent with each other and makes them look like they're missing stuff. It's not just the hitsparks, but the shockwaves and landing effects as well. I also noticed that certain effects and sounds don't play exactly the same as the others. If you want me to point out which sounds are missing on each character, I can. This is how I usually do feedback for others of the same style, not just finding bugs.
Sorry, man. I don't mean to be an asshole to someone coming into my thread trying to help, but the irony here is too damn funny. You want to help me copy myself?

I may change more effects before I'm done but it's not a priority. I changed the ones that I did because I wanted them to have more of what I did myself and less of what was ripped from some game (or just ugly). And I guess you'd have to go through the trouble of creating a hitspark code to be able to appreciate the simplicity of using normal sparks every now and then. It's too bad Mugen 1.1 still has issues because it had the best of both worlds when it comes to sparks (hi-res without coding).

Anyway, I don't think anyone's caught this yet, and I don't know if it's intentional, but her Houten air throw isn't bi-directional. I was also gonna point out the zampa bug but RagingRowen already made note of that
Thanks. I'll look into it.

May I suggest a change for Hsien-Ko? Whenever she uses a super, her sprites get that rainbowy flashing that characters used to do in Darkstalkers. I think that should be removed, because of your more CvS inspired gameplay, not even your Morrigan has that, so it looks out of place with Hsien-Ko.
I tried giving her the afterimages instead, but because all her supers are stationary you couldn't even see them, which was confusing. So I left the nod to Darkstalkers.

Personally, in terms of aesthetics I don't care. Though mechanics I do feel they should share mostly consistence. Like Guy not having a stationary dodge always felt odd, as the rest of your chars did. I suppose Lei-Lei is sort of a special case, though it's just a suggestion. I don't back roll often, if at all, so I agree with you there. The only reason I added it myself was due to consistency with mechanics.
Don't take this personally because it's not, and from what I've seen you're one of the few people to take my style and give it a new fork, but it seems like consistency is the biggest meme in the community now. A few years back I'd have made a Consistent Akuma.

Guy makes more sense in context. I wasn't trying to create a style or anything, and if I wanted to add a dodge I'd have to sprite it myself, so it sometimes made it in and sometimes didn't. Karin also only has a roll, so you can see which was my favourite mechanic in that department. I removed Lei-Lei's dodge this time because I don't care enough about that mechanic and would need to make a new animation for it after making Ankihou chargeable.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Akito on January 24, 2022, 11:34:09 AM
ZolidSone didn't try to be rude, because if you don't know him, he here on the Forum is known for giving more detailed feedback in order to really help creators with their chars. He just made a suggestion to improve the aesthetics of the sparks, that's all.

Currently, in the community, players have been looking for more standardization within the chars so that they can make their own complete games. I'm one of those, and when I don't find consistency within a style, be it POTS or any other, I don't use it, unfortunately. It's not a "meme", just a change of preference that was built over time, as Mugen has evolved a lot, and with the arrival of Ikemen the need for standardization has become stronger.

Divinewolf also didn't speak ill, as he himself within his style has a very solid material, so when he and others see things that are outside a standard of what many are used to, it is normal for them to comment something.

Many idolize his style for everything he represents within the community. The suggestions are just constructive to see something more solid, like a system of some complete game, like SF, KOF or MK. Not that it isn't, your material is great, but if you don't care about something like that, do it your way, after all, everyone is free to create however they want and everyone respects that.

Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: PotS on January 24, 2022, 11:54:45 AM
ZolidSone didn't try to be rude
[...]
Divinewolf also didn't speak ill,
I didn't interpret it that way either. It's very hard to speak openly on the internet without sounding angry.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: KarmaCharmeleon on January 24, 2022, 12:09:53 PM
You didn't sound angry, you prefaced both of your responses with:
(...) Sorry, man. I don't mean to be an asshole (...)
(...)
Don't take this personally because it's not (...)
And just stated that it wasn't your preference.

It's probably on Akito having a hard time with English.

It's not a "meme", just a change of preference that was built over time, as Mugen has evolved a lot, and with the arrival of Ikemen the need for standardization has become stronger.
I honestly see no correlation between the arrival of Ikemen and the need for standardization. There's not really a "need" for anything in this community (the only exception might be the inevitable release of Jmorphman's Zangief). It's all for the sake of having fun.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Akito on January 24, 2022, 12:33:57 PM
The problem wasn't the English itself, just a misinterpretation when he quoted about copying himself, that's all.

And in fact it is not a necessity, although there are many people nowadays who want to have a more personalized Mugen, but this is a personal matter for each one.

But regardless of any opinion, fun is undoubtedly the most important.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on January 24, 2022, 06:14:35 PM
There's not really a "need" for anything in this community (the only exception might be the inevitable release of Jmorphman's Zangief).

Correct.

-On Lei-lei, when you attempt a Zamba and the opponent gets up before she connects, she disappears her shadow rises up and she reappears near the opponent. Great job overall.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on January 24, 2022, 06:26:48 PM
I tried giving her the afterimages instead, but because all her supers are stationary you couldn't even see them, which was confusing. So I left the nod to Darkstalkers.
Thats a shame, personally I'd still rather not have the colored stuff, but its your char, so I won't object to it. Specially because her gameplay feels a lot better and I can't wait to see a Morrigan update after so many years.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: NDSilva on January 24, 2022, 06:28:27 PM
Man... it's so nice to see you still rockin to this day, mah bro! :c00l:


Since you mentioned plans to update more chars down the line, I got a question:

Would you consider implementing the extended color separation, that were made a while ago for some of your chars?

(https://i.imgur.com/xjN9ooS.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/HlVO0mT.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/ysYF67k.gif)


If you like the concept but don't feel like diggin in too much for one more aesthetic feature, I can gladly help you in this speciffic regard - adapting the previous palettes, re-aligning sprites if needed, etc. :)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: D. HoChoy on January 24, 2022, 08:49:47 PM
OMG he's back!!! Almost thought PoTs was retired!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: DauntlessMonk7 on January 24, 2022, 08:54:13 PM
Ah, alright then. If it's alright for me to ask, in a similar vein to the Gouki thing earlier, do you have any interest/plans for giving Dictator/Bison/Vega or Geese any extra modes or new moves, like with Ryu? Something I've been thinking about since the Ryu and Guy update came out.
On the surface Geese has changed very little since I think he was already my best character. Dictator will gain a couple new toys. No new modes however.

Ah, that sounds good. And yeah, Geese is great, I was just wondering if he'd have changes in his moves since I remember some stuff about him that I personally found kind of iffy, like the behavior of EX Reppuken and the lack of recovery time after an OTG grab like there is in KOF / Real Bout.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: RagingRowen on January 24, 2022, 09:07:52 PM
Ah, that sounds good. And yeah, Geese is great, I was just wondering if he'd have changes in his moves since I remember some stuff about him that I personally found kind of iffy, like the behavior of EX Reppuken and the lack of recovery time after an OTG grab like there is in KOF / Real Bout.

I was also gonna judge EX Reppuken because it's rather awkward since you have to get at the perfect range to get either all the hits in or enough time to combo afterwards and it's pretty unsafe due to the lack of pushback.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: DW on January 24, 2022, 09:08:21 PM
Don't take this personally because it's not, and from what I've seen you're one of the few people to take my style and give it a new fork, but it seems like consistency is the biggest meme in the community now. A few years back I'd have made a Consistent Akuma.

Guy makes more sense in context. I wasn't trying to create a style or anything, and if I wanted to add a dodge I'd have to sprite it myself, so it sometimes made it in and sometimes didn't. Karin also only has a roll, so you can see which was my favourite mechanic in that department. I removed Lei-Lei's dodge this time because I don't care enough about that mechanic and would need to make a new animation for it after making Ankihou chargeable.

I'm not sure what would be taken "personally" in this response.... But ok...? Lol, it's fine and I understand where you're coming from. It is a bit of a meme, one that I unfortunately fell into myself for a while. It's more so the expectations of others, and them trying to force it upon you. I apologize if my suggestion came off as such.

On the surface Geese has changed very little since I think he was already my best character. Dictator will gain a couple new toys. No new modes however.

I agree. A bit of fine tuning is always a good thing, though your Geese was my main inspiration and a very well conceived character. My only suggestions with him, would be applying the color separation to him. Like NDS suggested with your other chars that people have made CS's for. I think someone made one for your Lei-Lei as well several months back. I really hope you use it for Charlie(Nash) as Davis did a great job on that CS. Some extras were even included as well, like a run animation among others.

Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Bad Mr. Basara on January 24, 2022, 09:36:08 PM
2022 surprises us in which way!! Welcome back POTS, not sure if you remember me, however :P

As a DS fan, I tested Lei-Lei and it feels even more solid than the old version, not bugs or something noticed apart of that Zamba bug already noticed before. Just my eternal whining of not having a WinM version of your chars (apart of DW and me, there's the Japanese community that still uses WinM BTW)... and also this:

I finally made the cut-in-half states for MUGEN (https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/earthworm-jim-and-all-clayfighters-are-updated-193916.0.html) with my Earthworm Jim and some of my ClayFighter chars, which was taken from DS chars (exactly from GhostFox12's Bishamon (https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/bishamon-oboro-bishamon-beta-available-169561.0.html)) and I noticed your Lei-Lei doesn't have it (Jim's Claytality makes the Launch from MUGEN (aka "up up and away" final move) when the character doesn't have the anim) but Jmorphman's Bulleta (great char, you should play with it) has it. Would you implement the DS custom states like this one in Lei-Lei in future updates?

That's all. Again, welcome back and good to see you again :hyo: I hope more updates of your chars (or maybe new ones) soon!!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on January 24, 2022, 11:26:48 PM
Nothing to report on Shin Akuma. Love his combo potential. Particularly with his otg's. Really...really looking forward to the Geese updates. Even a small change is welcome.  Even tho he's pretty much perfect. And your Dictator is already tier 1 so...
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: PotS on January 26, 2022, 09:31:43 AM
Would you consider implementing the extended color separation, that were made a while ago for some of your chars?

(https://i.imgur.com/xjN9ooS.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/HlVO0mT.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/ysYF67k.gif)


If you like the concept but don't feel like diggin in too much for one more aesthetic feature, I can gladly help you in this speciffic regard - adapting the previous palettes, re-aligning sprites if needed, etc. :)
Those look really nice. However, and I don't want to sound ungrateful because I know how much work it is to do color separation, after a certain point it makes the characters very hard to work with. I never would've added Lei-Lei's Dark Force if I had to separate more than her claws, for instance. So it'd have to be the last step in the updates, or still done by patches.

Also, concerning Nash specifically, it'd make people ask ever harder for SF5 content, hehe.

OMG he's back!!! Almost thought PoTs was retired!
I think I was active for 6 years and retired for 12, so no one will blame you.

Ah, that sounds good. And yeah, Geese is great, I was just wondering if he'd have changes in his moves since I remember some stuff about him that I personally found kind of iffy, like the behavior of EX Reppuken and the lack of recovery time after an OTG grab like there is in KOF / Real Bout.
I went and tweaked EX Reppuken a bit to make it easier to use. I don't think the OTG grab needs more recovery though, for the damage and range it has.

I'm not sure what would be taken "personally" in this response.... But ok...?
Nothing, really. It's just a disclaimer because I haven't posted in forums in a long time but remember that people can be too sensitive. Not you. You're cool. :8):

Lol, it's fine and I understand where you're coming from. It is a bit of a meme, one that I unfortunately fell into myself for a while. It's more so the expectations of others, and them trying to force it upon you. I apologize if my suggestion came off as such.
I know, right. I think I'd have changed other things sooner if people hadn't already grown used to them. I think the characters have too many defensive options, for instance.

2022 surprises us in which way!! Welcome back POTS, not sure if you remember me, however :P
I remember seeing that same Basara avatar for years. :P

As a DS fan, I tested Lei-Lei and it feels even more solid than the old version, not bugs or something noticed apart of that Zamba bug already noticed before. Just my eternal whining of not having a WinM version of your chars (apart of DW and me, there's the Japanese community that still uses WinM BTW)...
I don't want to go off on a tangent here, but what's the reason why people still use it?

I finally made the cut-in-half states for MUGEN (https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/earthworm-jim-and-all-clayfighters-are-updated-193916.0.html) with my Earthworm Jim and some of my ClayFighter chars, which was taken from DS chars (exactly from GhostFox12's Bishamon (https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/bishamon-oboro-bishamon-beta-available-169561.0.html)) and I noticed your Lei-Lei doesn't have it (Jim's Claytality makes the Launch from MUGEN (aka "up up and away" final move) when the character doesn't have the anim) but Jmorphman's Bulleta (great char, you should play with it) has it. Would you implement the DS custom states like this one in Lei-Lei in future updates?

That's all. Again, welcome back and good to see you again :hyo: I hope more updates of your chars (or maybe new ones) soon!!
I'll have to look into it. Not a priority though because that's going to be seen extremely rarely and I kind of have to be cost effective with my time right now.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: 2OS on January 26, 2022, 01:33:54 PM
As a DS fan, I tested Lei-Lei and it feels even more solid than the old version, not bugs or something noticed apart of that Zamba bug already noticed before. Just my eternal whining of not having a WinM version of your chars (apart of DW and me, there's the Japanese community that still uses WinM BTW)...
I don't want to go off on a tangent here, but what's the reason why people still use it?

i'd say there are 3 big ones

1. freqmul; you cannot replicate scaling it through code in newer mugen (a shrinking custom state where it gradually rises for example; you've seen a video i've shared). aside from that some authors use it a lot (me) to resample sounds to the point where you don't exactly realize that "it's the same sound" (so many officially released games do this too) and for all the effort put forth into doing that to be in vain simply because it doesn't do anything in newer mugen is kind of insulting and in turn will cause people to not fully migrate to newer mugen (that's not to say that we don't want to; we're not anti new mugen. the most annoying thing about this is people will on ignorance act like we are).

2. cheap character exploits. one of them being something called "%n" which is an argument taken by displaytoclipboard that in essence enables hex editing through cns.

3. z axis is gone. i don't personally know anyone making use of it but nonetheless.


sound quality in general is horrible on newer mugen. it's a shame because the new sound engine is already far less prone to crashing than winmugen ever was. combined with the fact that there so many other new things that were introduced with newer mugen it kinda doesn't make sense that sound has seen such little progress. even more so that "volume" is no longer valid as it was (somewhat redundantly) replaced with "volumescale".
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Lasombra Demon on January 26, 2022, 08:40:42 PM
I just wanted to say welcome back.

Also, a small question, since we're asking about WinMugen/MUGEN versions: are you planning on using any IKEMEN-only tools? RedirectID, maps, SFFs that can actually change dynamically, tons of more stuff... Heck ZSS is a whole other beast.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Jmorphman on January 27, 2022, 04:22:21 AM
I was talking to JNP earlier today on Discord about hard knockdown stuff, and I remembered that a lot of your hard knockdown states check P2 to see if they have a 5980 animation, which was presumably some sort of hard knockdown standard. But back when I was setting up the Optional Animation Standards thread (https://mugenguild.com/forum/all./topics/optional-animation-standards-138791.0.html), I was totally unable to find anyone who used that anim. In fact, I actually found a 5980 standard that was already established and used by a few authors, replicating a Hon-Fu move from Real Bout Special:
(http://network.mugenguild.com/jmorphman/images/optionalanims/5980.gif)

Because the animation standard specifically uses attack frames, it looks pretty weird when a character who uses the Hon-Fu 5980 standard gets hit by a hard knockdown move:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZhOTiLJ.png)

Do you know of anyone who uses 5980 as a hard knockdown? If it's totally unused, it might be best to just take it off entirely. Thankfully it's hard to notice the mismatch like in the above image, but even so.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: yaret on January 27, 2022, 01:28:37 PM
Welcome Back but instead of making characters why no to make a full game with the others mugen pots character creators? because your fanbase about your style is really big.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on January 27, 2022, 03:38:55 PM
Well, we don't know if he's making new characters or just updating his, besides, if it's just a compilation, why don't you do it yourself?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: PotS on January 27, 2022, 08:18:51 PM
i'd say there are 3 big ones
Winmugen had its problems, but it sure was nice to have everyone using the same engine version. Guess that's never coming back.

I just wanted to say welcome back.

Also, a small question, since we're asking about WinMugen/MUGEN versions: are you planning on using any IKEMEN-only tools? RedirectID, maps, SFFs that can actually change dynamically, tons of more stuff... Heck ZSS is a whole other beast.
Not yet at least. Ikemen has the potential to be the future Mugen, but the vanilla engine still runs a lot more smoothly for me.

I was talking to JNP earlier today on Discord about hard knockdown stuff, and I remembered that a lot of your hard knockdown states check P2 to see if they have a 5980 animation, which was presumably some sort of hard knockdown standard. But back when I was setting up the Optional Animation Standards thread (https://mugenguild.com/forum/all./topics/optional-animation-standards-138791.0.html), I was totally unable to find anyone who used that anim. In fact, I actually found a 5980 standard that was already established and used by a few authors, replicating a Hon-Fu move from Real Bout Special:
That's odd. There used to be an optional standards thread just like yours where I ran everything by before coding, so I must've gotten it from there. I'll update all characters with 5420 instead. Thanks for pointing it out.

Oddly enough I've been using Vans's Rugal as the KOF test dummy and never noticed my mistake because his first frame for the Hon-Fu animation doesn't look as out of place as Ken's.

Welcome Back but instead of making characters why no to make a full game with the others mugen pots character creators? because your fanbase about your style is really big.
I think the people who may want that already compiled it by themselves.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: RagingRowen on January 27, 2022, 08:29:46 PM
Oh, I'm also curious about Sakura's differences aswell, mainly the Dark Sakura mode which was a WIP iirc. I'm mainly curious if she'll get more unique supers like maybe getting a more proper SGS in contrast to the normal Mode's.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: lui on January 28, 2022, 09:26:58 PM
How much would I have to beg to get you to revisit your Darkstalkers vs Street Fighter idea? I've been kicking JnP's ass for years for not doing it himself! :p

In any case, I do like the changes you've made for the most part, everyone feels way more distinct and more representative of their character rather than being focused on getting a "style" right.


Quick question though, what was the though process behind giving Shin Gouki DS chains? Not complaining, just curious on what brought this on exactly.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: Vocalnoid on January 29, 2022, 11:27:27 AM
Sup Phantom, I know you weren't really my first interest when I first joined the mugen scene back then, but replaying your improved creations mainly think that I was missing out on alot of good chars similar to yours (Karma being a good example).

I'm really looking forward to updates to more of your old chars in the future, they're just THAT fun! :laugh:

Speaking of, I really like your bonus games (Catwalk being my most fav), are you possibly gonna update one of them as well? Just curious
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: cristopeles on January 29, 2022, 12:29:52 PM
 good news.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Shin Gouki and Lei-Lei added)
Post by: TTTTTsd on January 29, 2022, 02:27:55 PM
Out the gate, nice to see you back! Gonna pop out from six feet under to dump some impressions here for characters I feel qualified to speak on, glad to see (and hear) that you're still doing well. As a preface, these updates feel like substantial improvements! I'll be using numpad notation since I think it's easiest to read and parse (I've become an anime player) but if you need clarification on it do let me know!

Guy:
- Regarding pre-jump, 5 frames feels like a lot coming from Alpha and CVS2 (the former from recency the latter from loose recollection), but perhaps it's best this way to make hops easier to do. Take it or leave it, I suppose, haha.
- 2LP is +8. This might be a little excessive for hit/block advantage, even for a light normal.
- Light normals in general seem really wild, but his LP ones stand out.
- 2MK feels a bit odd here. Normally this is cancellable in most games he's playable in for at least the 1st hit (Alpha 1/Alpha 2), and the range feels a bit off here too. As a result it should probably have a bit more recovery too if you make this change at all.
- 214P (Hozanto) frame advantage seems a bit too good as well. +0 on block with big pushback. Usually this move IS safe though, -3 in Alpha 2 with similar pushback, which might achieve the same effect but be a bit less excess? The EX one could probably be 0 or remain as is.
- Runstop feels a bit slow (236K > P), it's less safe in pressure than all of his other run options when usually it's the other way around. As it stands you're better off doing 236K > MK as its only -1 but on hit it launches.
- Close 5HK whiffing crouchers is a bit odd feeling, especially coming from the general use cases that normal had in the Alpha series.
- 2HP not being cancellable feels really strange considering he has a lot of his Alpha 1 cancels (including Far 5MK!) but not this one.
- Close 5LK, for its startup and properties, might benefit from hitting low? It aims at the foot area, and a lot of normals in Capcom games that do this are generally blocked low.

I can't really add much for his Supers or anything else, they all feel great and work about how I expect! As an Alpha 1/2 Guy player, he's generally really close and really only feels weird in the aforementioned ways either compared directly to those games or just other Capcom things of the 90s/early 2000s. I quite like that he has his Alpha 1 Far 5MK cancels, the sacred neutral.

Ryu:
- 2MP being +7 on block is pretty wild. I know the hit and block data is the same and the idea is for 2MP to link into 2MK, but this might be me putting forth the general idea of normals having slightly less blockstun than hitstun.
- 6MK feels VERY loaded as a command normal. About the only thing it doesn't do is hit crouchers, but it hops lows, is +5 on hit/block (!!!!), and is Frame 13 compared to 6HP which has similar data on hit and block but starts up much slower. 6MK if I am not mistaken also carries over run momentum too? Might be....a little too good? I know you can crouch it, but if you're a tall character.....
- Close 5MK has a TON of recovery compared to his other proximity normals, despite being slower than them. Close 5HP for instance is 1f faster on startup, safer on block, doubles as an anti air, and still has the force stand on hit. Close 5MK could probably stand to just have a bit less recovery.
- 6MP is -5 on hit. Normally this overhead isn't plus unless you meaty, but -5 means you can actually get punished pretty hard for it. The startup IS fast, but it might be better served being -2/-3?
- Hadouken being +0 point blank is similarly really good, but this is less egregious cause it has startup and other properties, and of course the average MUGEN character usually has a roll or something projectile invincible. It's mostly just weird that EX Fireball is as safe on block as Normal fireball at a lot of distances including point blank, truthfully.
- Might be completely pedantic and pointless but I do sort of wish EX Tatsumaki > Shinkuu Hadouken fully connected in juggles in the corner. It's a partial connect which is fine but, it'd be cool~.
- Ryu's counter super (222PP) is honestly pretty useless. Someone mentioned it was too good, and I'd be maybe be more inclined to agree if it wasn't for the glaring issue of having superfreeze before it actually starts countering stuff. There's a whole video talking about Counter supers like this in the context of Remy's Blue Nocturne https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAzSMkhSdgk and while this super isn't quite that bad because it doesn't lock Ryu out of using other supers, as a result of this property I feel like it's.....not particularly useful? My only suggestion would be to remove the Superflash until it actually counters something, I know this wouldn't be very "90s Capcom" but their approach to supers like this were generally terrible (IMO).
- Evil Ryu 6HP feels way wild too, +3 and its that fast? Realistically I can only suggest increasing the recovery on it cause it's cancellable anyways.
- Evil Ryu 236K seems about right, but 236MK being +2 and not just - but safe is a bit odd.
- Evil Ryu 236KK (EX) hit overhead in USF4. It was pretty telegraphed as one anyways but I'll put it forward as a suggestion here too just for parity's sake.

Ryu feels great too! Really, I have to echo: it's nice to see you back and updating. The hitboxes, visual polish, everything, is all SO much better. Can't wait to see what you do with Dan and Dictator in particular. I'll probably whip up stuff for them too when the time comes. Until then~.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: PotS on January 29, 2022, 03:40:05 PM
Oh, I'm also curious about Sakura's differences aswell, mainly the Dark Sakura mode which was a WIP iirc. I'm mainly curious if she'll get more unique supers like maybe getting a more proper SGS in contrast to the normal Mode's.
WIP is too nice of a word. It was something I could never be bothered to finish. :P But it's finished now. One of the themes in these updates has been adding stuff that should've been there from the start.
Also mode change is no longer a "secret" move, so she's quite fun.

How much would I have to beg to get you to revisit your Darkstalkers vs Street Fighter idea? I've been kicking JnP's ass for years for not doing it himself! :p
At this point I just think't it'd be too much work for too little payoff.

Quick question though, what was the though process behind giving Shin Gouki DS chains? Not complaining, just curious on what brought this on exactly.
I don't remember anymore. Might have been a consequence of doing Pocket Shin Gouki first.

good news.
Sup Phantom, I know you weren't really my first interest when I first joined the mugen scene back then, but replaying your improved creations mainly think that I was missing out on alot of good chars similar to yours (Karma being a good example).
Thanks. It's nice to hear people still have fun with them.

Speaking of, I really like your bonus games (Catwalk being my most fav), are you possibly gonna update one of them as well? Just curious
Yes, but the changes will be minimal. Just bug fixing and such. The weird characters (Kraken etc) will be updated as well.

Out the gate, nice to see you back! Gonna pop out from six feet under to dump some impressions here for characters I feel qualified to speak on, glad to see (and hear) that you're still doing well. As a preface, these updates feel like substantial improvements! I'll be using numpad notation since I think it's easiest to read and parse (I've become an anime player) but if you need clarification on it do let me know!
Wow. I love this kind of feedback and there's so much of it! Thanks!
(I'm familiar with numpad notation and even use it in the code)

I can't promise to nerf everything, but you can be sure I'll be going over every one of these points. Some things I can answer in advance:

Quote
Guy:
- Regarding pre-jump, 5 frames feels like a lot coming from Alpha and CVS2 (the former from recency the latter from loose recollection), but perhaps it's best this way to make hops easier to do. Take it or leave it, I suppose, haha.
It's because of the hops indeed. Part of me wants to remove that system (since I was raised with Capcom games), but I've also made SNK characters and they'd feel weird without it. Already removed them from the DS characters where they made no sense.

Quote
Ryu:
- 2MP being +7 on block is pretty wild. I know the hit and block data is the same and the idea is for 2MP to link into 2MK, but this might be me putting forth the general idea of normals having slightly less blockstun than hitstun.
At one point I was changing Ryu's frame data to closer to SF4 or SF5 until I realized I was adding like a million frames of recovery to every move, haha. Then I scratched it. I'll try to strike a balance there.

I should start using the frame data training dummy I've seen people use. That should be easier than going through every (dis)advantage frame by frame like I do.

Quote
- Might be completely pedantic and pointless but I do sort of wish EX Tatsumaki > Shinkuu Hadouken fully connected in juggles in the corner. It's a partial connect which is fine but, it'd be cool~.
It connects fully in the current version but to be honest I don't even remember when I changed that. In fact EX Tatsu might be too good now.

Quote
- Ryu's counter super (222PP) is honestly pretty useless. Someone mentioned it was too good, and I'd be maybe be more inclined to agree if it wasn't for the glaring issue of having superfreeze before it actually starts countering stuff. There's a whole video talking about Counter supers like this in the context of Remy's Blue Nocturne https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAzSMkhSdgk and while this super isn't quite that bad because it doesn't lock Ryu out of using other supers, as a result of this property I feel like it's.....not particularly useful? My only suggestion would be to remove the Superflash until it actually counters something, I know this wouldn't be very "90s Capcom" but their approach to supers like this were generally terrible (IMO).
Balancing counter supers is just very hard by design I guess. Geese's turned out alright I think, but that is a Level 3 and it's Geese "Predictabo" Howard, so I didn't want to make Ryu's as good. Even then Deadly Rave is better.
At least Ryu's has the saving grace of being usable in combos.

Quote
- Evil Ryu 236K seems about right, but 236MK being +2 and not just - but safe is a bit odd.
That one was intentional. The advantage and startup goes up more or less in a linear way with each version.

By the way that move is half responsible for me adding the Stun system. If there's one thing fun about modern Evil Ryu/Kage it's the Ryusokyaku combos.

Quote
- Evil Ryu 236KK (EX) hit overhead in USF4. It was pretty telegraphed as one anyways but I'll put it forward as a suggestion here too just for parity's sake.
I didn't really like that about the original since it's the same animation and one hits mid but the other hits high. Like you said it's not very useful anyway.
Reminds me of your point about Guy's close LK. I don't like it when a standing move hits low just because.

Quote
Ryu feels great too! Really, I have to echo: it's nice to see you back and updating. The hitboxes, visual polish, everything, is all SO much better. Can't wait to see what you do with Dan and Dictator in particular. I'll probably whip up stuff for them too when the time comes. Until then~.
Thanks. Don't expect the changes to be as drastic for everyone though, as some characters needed it more than others. About Dan you're in luck.


A couple new updates today.

Lei-Lei:
- Gets an early update because I didn't want her to keep crashing through people's floors. But it's more than that

Dan:
- Moved a few things around to make more sense. Overall should feel more polished
- Has an experimental input buffer, so let me know if it breaks anything so I can add it to every character

I've had a change of heart regarding some things. I think everyone will have back rolls, but they will be a bit worse than the forward rolls. And I'm adding and even updating the hi-res sparks to everyone so see if you like them.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: TTTTTsd on January 29, 2022, 04:30:53 PM
For all it's worth, if you ever want a nice page of frame data references, https://wiki.supercombo.gg/w/Capcom_vs_SNK_2/Ryu I believe the CVS2 wiki is in shape and displays just about everyone's data here? As it turns out, your estimation on Ryu 2MP was only a frame off! I'll get to looking at Dan in-depth soon but honestly he seems to tick all the boxes and I can't find anything really "off" or worth mentioning (which is good!)

As for Ryu's frame data, yeah, I think it's OVERALL mostly fine outside of what I mentioned haha. That anecdote about SF4 and SF5 is so true tbh, moreso in the latter. SF5 is very focused in its design, a lot of its moves do very specific, VERY scienced out things, which I feel definitely is at odds with that classic 90s Capcom approach of like, a general purpose but not a narrow one, if that makes sense? I prefer the CVS2 and the general 90s Capcom approach for all it's worth, I think it adds more long-term depth as long as there's just enough thought put in, heh.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: WF4123 on January 29, 2022, 05:42:27 PM
Man, this Dan update is surreal good.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: DauntlessMonk7 on January 29, 2022, 06:50:33 PM
A couple new updates today.

Lei-Lei:
- Gets an early update because I didn't want her to keep crashing through people's floors. But it's more than that

Dan:
- Moved a few things around to make more sense. Overall should feel more polished
- Has an experimental input buffer, so let me know if it breaks anything so I can add it to every character

I've had a change of heart regarding some things. I think everyone will have back rolls, but they will be a bit worse than the forward rolls. And I'm adding and even updating the hi-res sparks to everyone so see if you like them.

Dan seems pretty good, though a few things:

- Being able to charge Gadou Shokouken infinitely seems a bit too strong, even as a level 2.
I think it should last about as long as charging something like Rugal's Kaiser Wave.

- Premium Sign staying on the ground until it scrolls off-screen kind of clutters the screen. I think it should vanish on impact with the ground.

- The white flashes from Chouhatsu Shinwa hurt my eyes, especially when you're able to taunt rapidly in order to build up meter. I know it can stun the opponent briefly now, but I still think a less aggressive color flash can accomplish the effect just as well.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: PotS on January 29, 2022, 07:24:08 PM
For all it's worth, if you ever want a nice page of frame data references, https://wiki.supercombo.gg/w/Capcom_vs_SNK_2/Ryu I believe the CVS2 wiki is in shape and displays just about everyone's data here?
I've actually been using that one a lot, but for SF4 and 5 data. CvS2 was a great game, but lately I'm more interested in what Capcom learned with their fighting game revival.
I like Mizuumi Wiki too.

As it turns out, your estimation on Ryu 2MP was only a frame off!
Estimation is the right word since that's all I did back when I made Ryu, haha. Some things have been fixed since though.

That anecdote about SF4 and SF5 is so true tbh, moreso in the latter. SF5 is very focused in its design, a lot of its moves do very specific, VERY scienced out things, which I feel definitely is at odds with that classic 90s Capcom approach of like, a general purpose but not a narrow one, if that makes sense?
It does. It's interesting how frame data became a big deal after 4.

I'll get to looking at Dan in-depth soon but honestly he seems to tick all the boxes and I can't find anything really "off" or worth mentioning (which is good!)
Man, this Dan update is surreal good.
Thanks. :)

Dan seems pretty good, though a few things:

- Being able to charge Gadou Shokouken infinitely seems a bit too strong, even as a level 2.
I think it should last about as long as charging something like Rugal's Kaiser Wave.
I think those two are different beasts. I made Dan's charge have some use, but it's mostly a joke because you could charge it the entire round and all it does is go full screen.

- Premium Sign staying on the ground until it scrolls off-screen kind of clutters the screen. I think it should vanish on impact with the ground.
I wanted to make it a lasting insult.

- The white flashes from Chouhatsu Shinwa hurt my eyes, especially when you're able to taunt rapidly in order to build up meter. I know it can stun the opponent briefly now, but I still think a less aggressive color flash can accomplish the effect just as well.
That I agree with. I'll try to tone it down while still looking like a flash.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on January 29, 2022, 09:17:58 PM
Oh, I'm also curious about Sakura's differences aswell, mainly the Dark Sakura mode which was a WIP iirc. I'm mainly curious if she'll get more unique supers like maybe getting a more proper SGS in contrast to the normal Mode's.
WIP is too nice of a word. It was something I could never be bothered to finish. :P But it's finished now. One of the themes in these updates has been adding stuff that should've been there from the start.
Also mode change is no longer a "secret" move, so she's quite fun.
Question: have you considered adding a Lilith mode to Morrigan?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: totaln00b on January 29, 2022, 10:40:31 PM
Hey POTS,

I just signed in to thank you for these wonderful characters. Welcome back big dog. Your Guy is so much fun to play (as are all your characters). Can't wait to try Dan out!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: Flowrellik on January 30, 2022, 01:23:40 AM
Oh. my. Goodness.
The legend lives again!!! Phantom of the Server welcome back! These updates are dabomb!!
I have to ask, I know you're doing updates, but is there by chance room for some new chars in the future?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: thebigguy270 on January 30, 2022, 05:23:35 AM
I'm glad to see you're back!  Your updates amaze me
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: TTTTTsd on January 30, 2022, 02:58:57 PM
Dan:
- 2LK has a lot of pushback! I feel like it could probably be given less given that as it stands with its hitbox and its current properties, it's hard to justify using it over 2MK because he can't really get low confirms with it anywho?
- 5LK is a REALLY good normal. Like, really plus, really long reaching. Might benefit from a touch more recovery cause it seems abnormally good for a Dan normal haha.
- LK Dankicks (214LK) feel.....really weird here. I guess it's a lot like Alpha 2 and CVS2, but I definitely feel it'd be really fun if they could be safe when spaced ala the newer SF games. HK Dankicks are as good as ever though, -4 so very hard to punish and reliable to confirm, just like A1.
- In the vein of SFV, I propose that the randomly invincible Koryuken also ignore juggle rules so you can insert it at the end of any juggle with EX Dankick haha. It'd be fun~.
Not a lot to say for Daniel here, he feels about right. I was gonna bring up the hitboxes, but I realize that they're balanced around your other characters hit and hurtboxes, and designed to be abjectly worse. I do appreciate his crossup being really easy to space and use though, jMK was about this good in Alpha 1 I wanna say and it was part of what made A1 Dan an explosive, but fun mid tier in that game. This Dan is a ton of fun though, Level 2 Super refreshing juggle effectively gives him a usable level 3 super if you spend another bar after for a full connect super, stuff like Gadouken > Shinkuu Gadouken > EX Dan Kicks in the corner is a ton of fun too....good work! I've always liked the approach to Dan where he's actually fun to play and not miserable to steer, but is still a bit weaker than the average character in noticeable ways. All I can ask for now is EX Premium Sign as a setplay move or something, but I feel like that's out of the scope of what Dan is (unless we consider SFV...)

Ryu:
- Noticed some more stuff while dinking around. HP Fireball's travel speed is REALLY similar to MP, I think it could stand to go a little faster to make farther confirms more reliable (Good old 2MK > Hadouken)
- Evil Ryu's HP DP is Frame 2?! I....might suggest slowing it down a bit, it's technically impossible to safejump as it is, but I guess it's also close to source
- Ryu's EX DP is a little strange. It has the 3 hits from E. Ryu's as opposed to being the 2 hit 2I/3S EX DP, can't really tell if it's an oversight or intentional tbh, but it does feel strange that Normal Ryu EX DP works like that.
Just a couple of extra notes on Ryu.

Also, something I've noted on all characters: if you superjump into the corner, it counts as a crossup? It's a bit weird, I usually solve this in fullgames I work on by specifying an extra 10-15 pixels of edge via a Width sctrl in the -2, but IDK what's actually causing this or if it's intended or not, but figured I should mention it.

By the way that move is half responsible for me adding the Stun system. If there's one thing fun about modern Evil Ryu/Kage it's the Ryusokyaku combos.
Taking the time to respond to some stuff I missed on my comb through and....hell yeah. Vivid memories of watching Sako's Evil Ryu combos and how much stomps and cool links were involved, even before the stun! Red Focus enabled a TON of cool stuff, and it sort of cements SF4 Evil Ryu as the coolest incarnation of the character.....ever?

I've actually been using that one a lot, but for SF4 and 5 data. CvS2 was a great game, but lately I'm more interested in what Capcom learned with their fighting game revival.
I like Mizuumi Wiki too.
Estimation is the right word since that's all I did back when I made Ryu, haha. Some things have been fixed since though.
God, yeah, Mizuumi is wonderful, as is Dustloop. So many great resources out there now, such good tools to build understanding of concepts that sort of come abstractly with this genre. On the note of that estimation, that is seriously impressive, but you also definitely set a lot of standards back then so I guess it's not terribly surprising haha. The superfans are what keep this genre breathing, I think.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: PotS on January 30, 2022, 04:56:47 PM
Thanks, everyone.

Question: have you considered adding a Lilith mode to Morrigan?
Not really.

Oh. my. Goodness.
The legend lives again!!! Phantom of the Server welcome back! These updates are dabomb!!
I have to ask, I know you're doing updates, but is there by chance room for some new chars in the future?
For the time being I just want to get everything (mostly) fixed.

Dan:
- 2LK has a lot of pushback! I feel like it could probably be given less given that as it stands with its hitbox and its current properties, it's hard to justify using it over 2MK because he can't really get low confirms with it anywho?
Nice catch. It had medium pushback by mistake.

Quote
- 5LK is a REALLY good normal. Like, really plus, really long reaching. Might benefit from a touch more recovery cause it seems abnormally good for a Dan normal haha.
Fixed.

Quote
- LK Dankicks (214LK) feel.....really weird here. I guess it's a lot like Alpha 2 and CVS2, but I definitely feel it'd be really fun if they could be safe when spaced ala the newer SF games. HK Dankicks are as good as ever though, -4 so very hard to punish and reliable to confirm, just like A1.
Yeah come to think of it those physics aren't right. I'll make it more accurate and maybe add a tocuh of SF4 there.

Quote
- In the vein of SFV, I propose that the randomly invincible Koryuken also ignore juggle rules so you can insert it at the end of any juggle with EX Dankick haha. It'd be fun~.
I don't see why not. It is done.

Quote
Not a lot to say for Daniel here, he feels about right. I was gonna bring up the hitboxes, but I realize that they're balanced around your other characters hit and hurtboxes, and designed to be abjectly worse.
They weren't really balanced that way or meant to be worse, but just turned out like that. To be honest most of them could use hitbox updates, but I think Dan's get the job done. I didn't really get the hang of that until I made Charlie or so (and back then if you made a Clsn1 larger than the Clsn2 you were the devil :P).

Quote
This Dan is a ton of fun though, Level 2 Super refreshing juggle effectively gives him a usable level 3 super if you spend another bar after for a full connect super, stuff like Gadouken > Shinkuu Gadouken > EX Dan Kicks in the corner is a ton of fun too....good work!
My favourite is scHP xx Gadouken xx Shinkuu Gadouken xx Shoukouken, Tenchi Haouken :8):

Quote
Ryu:
- Noticed some more stuff while dinking around. HP Fireball's travel speed is REALLY similar to MP, I think it could stand to go a little faster to make farther confirms more reliable (Good old 2MK > Hadouken)
The previous versions had faster fireballs but they feel too fast to me now. I think I'll leave that alone. They're the SFA speeds.

Quote
- Evil Ryu's HP DP is Frame 2?! I....might suggest slowing it down a bit, it's technically impossible to safejump as it is, but I guess it's also close to source
You are right again. But I hate you for opening a can of worms there. Changing the startup means changing how it combos from normals. Old Capcom's solution to this was to give it a massive hitbox in the stronger versions but I'm not fond of moves that hit telepathically, so I made Ryu move forward a bit if you combo into it.

Quote
- Ryu's EX DP is a little strange. It has the 3 hits from E. Ryu's as opposed to being the 2 hit 2I/3S EX DP, can't really tell if it's an oversight or intentional tbh, but it does feel strange that Normal Ryu EX DP works like that.
Yeah it's Evil Ryu's Shoryuken pretty much and always been like that (trivia: in the first version he used the Shin Shoryuken arm for it). I don't know about making that one like the new games.

Quote
Also, something I've noted on all characters: if you superjump into the corner, it counts as a crossup? It's a bit weird, I usually solve this in fullgames I work on by specifying an extra 10-15 pixels of edge via a Width sctrl in the -2, but IDK what's actually causing this or if it's intended or not, but figured I should mention it.
It's intentional. I stole the idea from SF4. I think it's fun, and balanced by the fact that you have to sacrifice the corner for that mixup.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: RagingRowen on January 30, 2022, 05:20:23 PM
Gameplay wise the only thing I noticed about Dan is that Chou Dankuu Kyaku can't be cancelled into from normals, but specials are fine.
I'm also not keen on the lowered damage for Otoko Michi because I feel like the original damage was balanced out by you losing all your health.

Lastly, I also noticed Kouryuu Rekka is listed as P instead of K in the Readme.

In terms of suggestions, might I suggest adding the rare (Like the rare invincible Kouryuu Ken) SFV Gadouken? This version launches as a silly way of nerfing an infinite with the normal Gadouken (I'd also suggest buffing the recovery on the normal one to support this).


Edit: Currently not keen on the Buffer since I struggle to, for example, go from HP to a LP Special (In this case, Kouryuu Ken) because of the button timing (Even with the slightest tap of HP).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: TTTTTsd on January 30, 2022, 05:23:59 PM
My favourite is scHP xx Gadouken xx Shinkuu Gadouken xx Shoukouken xx Tenchi Haouken :8):
I'm.....well, it's cool that you can finally combo into Tenchi Haouken, haha.

You are right again. But I hate you for opening a can of worms there. Changing the startup means changing how it combos from normals. Old Capcom's solution to this was to give it a massive hitbox in the stronger versions but I'm not fond of moves that hit telepathically, so I made Ryu move forward a bit if you combo into it.
I think that's a good compromise, yeah. There will always be a little bit of telekinetic hitbox jank on DPs but minimizing it like the Alpha series did is a good idea....well, except for Shinryuken, but we don't talk about that (don't look at it, it's a nightmare)

Yeah it's Evil Ryu's Shoryuken pretty much and always been like that (trivia: in the first version he used the Shin Shoryuken arm for it). I don't know about making that one like the new games.
I mean hey, if it works it works! Just throws my brain off but I'm too used to like, 2I/3S.

It's intentional. I stole the idea from SF4. I think it's fun, and balanced by the fact that you have to sacrifice the corner for that mixup.
I appreciate that, at the very least, you have to superjump for it. Big issue I had was corner jump-ins not giving you that kinda choice but at least here it's a decision you can make.

As always, I anticipate the next set of updates.

Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: PotS on January 30, 2022, 10:20:13 PM
Gameplay wise the only thing I noticed about Dan is that Chou Dankuu Kyaku can't be cancelled into from normals, but specials are fine.
That may be just the close hard punch, where I made a mistake.

I'm also not keen on the lowered damage for Otoko Michi because I feel like the original damage was balanced out by you losing all your health.
I think it was a bit too strong. You have to keep in mind that the health sacrifice is a non issue later in the round. I buffed it a bit by making the health lost be the same as the damage done to the opponent.

Quote
In terms of suggestions, might I suggest adding the rare (Like the rare invincible Kouryuu Ken) SFV Gadouken? This version launches as a silly way of nerfing an infinite with the normal Gadouken (I'd also suggest buffing the recovery on the normal one to support this).
That was a really neat way to solve a problem. But I'm not sure if/how to implement it yet. I thought about making it the EX Gadouken, but he has too many juggles already.
If I make it random he'd have to lose the random Kouryuken or he'd be too weird to play as.

Quote
Edit: Currently not keen on the Buffer since I struggle to, for example, go from HP to a LP Special (In this case, Kouryuu Ken) because of the button timing (Even with the slightest tap of HP).
Thanks for pointing this out. I hate to spam updates, but this is kind of a big deal so please redownload the character for an early fix.

I appreciate that, at the very least, you have to superjump for it. Big issue I had was corner jump-ins not giving you that kinda choice but at least here it's a decision you can make.
Yeah, having the option to do it or not is the only reason I added it. If every jump did it it'd annoy me. Also I'm glad you mentioned the Dan Kicks because they feel a lot better with the correct velocities now.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: DauntlessMonk7 on February 02, 2022, 02:41:09 AM
In terms of suggestions, might I suggest adding the rare (Like the rare invincible Kouryuu Ken) SFV Gadouken? This version launches as a silly way of nerfing an infinite with the normal Gadouken (I'd also suggest buffing the recovery on the normal one to support this).

That was a really neat way to solve a problem. But I'm not sure if/how to implement it yet. I thought about making it the EX Gadouken, but he has too many juggles already.
If I make it random he'd have to lose the random Kouryuken or he'd be too weird to play as.

I personally think the knockdown Gadoken might work better as an alternate form of Gadoken that’s activated when comboed into, like Geese’s Reppuken in SVC Chaos. That might depend on how the Gadoken infinite works, though.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: Cyborg Sun on February 06, 2022, 07:10:55 PM
It's already been nearly a month now since your comeback, and I can still hardly believe it. Seriously, welcome back man!

As far as the Stun system goes, it should be noted that Ikemen GO has a toggleable "universal stun" option in the engine that gives stun to every character, and that might conflict with any internal stun mechanics given to characters. Maybe you already caught on to this, as it doesn't seem Lei-Lei or Dan has stun, but just thought I'd let you know, just in case.

EDIT: Speaking of Lei-Lei, if that aforementioned stun mechanic is enabled in Ikemen, then she can be "infinitely dizzied". Basically, she gets stunned, then you hit her once again while she's stunned... and she's stunned again, leading to the world's easiest infinite, which can be done by quite literally any character.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: extravagant on February 06, 2022, 08:48:44 PM
I've actually been using that one a lot, but for SF4 and 5 data. CvS2 was a great game, but lately I'm more interested in what Capcom learned with their fighting game revival.
I like Mizuumi Wiki too.

I like this idea. The revival was predominantly SF4 era stuff, and SF5 was no where, not even remotely as close to the influence that SF4 had. SF4 is a much better game imo.

Back on topic, I wanted to ask. Since you are focusing on SF4 or SF5, will you ever consider giving Ryu an FADC (Focus Attack Dash Cancel)?

Mainly because I think it would fit into your system quite nicely. No one in the MUGEN community has really dealt with that type of SF4 pressure yet. No one has had to deal with something close to Vanilla SF4 Sagat's FADC into Super/Ultra. No one has really dealt with Ryu's Shoryu FADC Shinkuu hadouken yet.

We've mostly had CvS2 inspired creations out there, which is great too, but we could really diversify the types of matchups by introducing a FADC mechanics to your system.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: PotS on February 06, 2022, 09:00:55 PM
I personally think the knockdown Gadoken might work better as an alternate form of Gadoken that’s activated when comboed into, like Geese’s Reppuken in SVC Chaos. That might depend on how the Gadoken infinite works, though.
I think that'd be a nerf because Gadouken is his best super cancel, and knocking down would limit combos. Come to think of it, the "lucky" Gadouken is something that only makes sense in SF5, and only if you keep the infinite.

It's already been nearly a month now since your comeback, and I can still hardly believe it. Seriously, welcome back man!
Thanks. :)

As far as the Stun system goes, it should be noted that Ikemen GO has a toggleable "universal stun" option in the engine that gives stun to every character, and that might conflict with any internal stun mechanics given to characters. Maybe you already caught on to this, as it doesn't seem Lei-Lei or Dan has stun, but just thought I'd let you know, just in case.
They do have stun. You have to keep in mind that they're still Mugen characters at the end of the day. Maybe one day I'll return and make them Ikemen-exclusive, hehe, in which case I'd remove redundant things like that.

EDIT: Speaking of Lei-Lei, if that aforementioned stun mechanic is enabled in Ikemen, then she can be "infinitely dizzied". Basically, she gets stunned, then you hit her once again while she's stunned... and she's stunned again, leading to the world's easiest infinite, which can be done by quite literally any character.
That's not the case because I opted to have the stun be inflicted on the opponent rather than be a handicap to the player, since it's the only way that makes sense to me. The only issue right now is that Ikemen does not keep track of the characters' own stun mechanics, so you can sometimes dizzy the opponent twice in a row. I think that might be fixed (in Ikemen) in the future since it must be an issue with the hundred other characters that also have a dizzy system. All it takes is resetting the universal stun if the character is using animation 5300 or something along those lines.

Back on topic, I wanted to ask. Since you are focusing on SF4 or SF5, will you ever consider giving Ryu an FADC (Focus Attack Dash Cancel)?
While I meant what I said before, these characters weren't designed with Focus Attack in mind, and adding it now would mean rethinking many things, which at the moment I don't want to get into. I think FA would be interesting from an offensive perspective, but as for defense they can do (too) many things already.

We've mostly had CvS2 inspired creations out there, which is great too, but we could really diversify the types of matchups by introducing a FADC mechanics to your system.
That is something that surprised me coming back, because I thought SF4 and SF5 would've been a much bigger influence in the community than my work was.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: Lasombra Demon on February 06, 2022, 09:14:55 PM
They do have stun. You have to keep in mind that they're still Mugen characters at the end of the day. Maybe one day I'll return and make them Ikemen-exclusive, hehe, in which case I'd remove redundant things like that.
IKEMEN's dizzy is easily disabled via the Option menu; I usually leave it off, but some people use it.

Then again, you could make a version for IKEMEN and one for MUGEN. I've just tried ZSS today and it's so damn pretty... Functions, condensed code...

Not to mention the kind of Arms Race advances you could pull with Rare Akuma via RedirectID and the newer stuff.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: Cyborg Sun on February 06, 2022, 10:26:09 PM
As far as the Stun system goes, it should be noted that Ikemen GO has a toggleable "universal stun" option in the engine that gives stun to every character, and that might conflict with any internal stun mechanics given to characters. Maybe you already caught on to this, as it doesn't seem Lei-Lei or Dan has stun, but just thought I'd let you know, just in case.
They do have stun. You have to keep in mind that they're still Mugen characters at the end of the day. Maybe one day I'll return and make them Ikemen-exclusive, hehe, in which case I'd remove redundant things like that.

EDIT: Speaking of Lei-Lei, if that aforementioned stun mechanic is enabled in Ikemen, then she can be "infinitely dizzied". Basically, she gets stunned, then you hit her once again while she's stunned... and she's stunned again, leading to the world's easiest infinite, which can be done by quite literally any character.
That's not the case because I opted to have the stun be inflicted on the opponent rather than be a handicap to the player, since it's the only way that makes sense to me. The only issue right now is that Ikemen does not keep track of the characters' own stun mechanics, so you can sometimes dizzy the opponent twice in a row. I think that might be fixed (in Ikemen) in the future since it must be an issue with the hundred other characters that also have a dizzy system. All it takes is resetting the universal stun if the character is using animation 5300 or something along those lines.

Yeah, you're right, they are still MUGEN characters... for now, heh. Also, I had no idea how I thought those two didn't have the new stun system... guess I didn't try hard enough, lol.

That thing with Lei-Lei is also only really an issue with that Ikemen-specific mechanic, it has nothing to do with how your characters do dizzying, so no worries there. Hopefully that's addressed by the engine devs.

Now I found something with Gouki; When he gets hit by either the level 2 or level 3 Psycho Crusher supers from your Vega, he's hit once, then phases out of existence for a brief moment before landing. Seems like Gouki's missing some kind of gethit animation?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Dan added)
Post by: TriggerPull on February 08, 2022, 09:07:54 AM
Hey so i know you're not a fan of config files as far as i can see in this thread, but will it's inclusion still considered in the near future? removing things like the stun would be nice since i'm personally not a fan of it in general
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: PotS on February 12, 2022, 12:15:39 PM
IKEMEN's dizzy is easily disabled via the Option menu; I usually leave it off, but some people use it.
I think the issue they have is disabling it in my characters, hehe.

Then again, you could make a version for IKEMEN and one for MUGEN. I've just tried ZSS today and it's so damn pretty... Functions, condensed code...
I might just do that when everything is updated. For WinMugen as well, maybe.

Now I found something with Gouki; When he gets hit by either the level 2 or level 3 Psycho Crusher supers from your Vega, he's hit once, then phases out of existence for a brief moment before landing. Seems like Gouki's missing some kind of gethit animation?
This bug is interesting because it shows us that Ikemen reads the air file differently from Mugen. I indeed made a typo in it, but it didn't create any problems in Mugen so I didn't notice.
I was going to show you how to fix it because it was just erasing one line, but then realized I might as well just share the current version of the character.

Hey so i know you're not a fan of config files as far as i can see in this thread, but will it's inclusion still considered in the near future? removing things like the stun would be nice since i'm personally not a fan of it in general
It's possible. The updates I've made would make that easier to implement, too. I kind of don't want to add a config file just to disable things, though. People who care will just open the coding files and disable what they don't want.


Updates are going slower now because work picked back up in February. Anyway...


Shin Gouki
- Fixed or added little things here and there


Sakura
- This character was worse than I remembered. This update should make her feel more like herself
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: WF4123 on February 12, 2022, 08:58:48 PM
Yehah, that Sakura update was superior fantastic!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: Emerie The G.O.A.T on February 12, 2022, 11:50:34 PM
Keep it going, Phantom!!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: GreatFunk on February 12, 2022, 11:58:24 PM
you're doing great, PotS.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: RagingRowen on February 13, 2022, 12:02:52 AM
1. Sakura Jime takes too long for me. It's rather it match the speed of the likes of Ken's Tsukami Nage.
2. Shunpuu Kyaku goes a bit too high (mostly in terms of hitboxes) and the 2nd spin whiff if she's too close: https://streamable.com/gvczvt
3. Might I suggest changing the palette whenever she does Mode Change? There a chance one would forget she's in Dark Mode due to a lack of indication?
4. I'm surprised you didn't give her the Haru Ranman from SF4. It would've made a good LVL3 or 2 version of her Haru Ichiban.
5. I find it odd that Dark didn't get the MvC Shou'ou Ken, mainly becuase Normal already has it as her EX Shou'ou.
6. Her MVC Shinkuu Tengyou is quite a random choice for a Dark LVL3 for me. I think I more fitting the choice would be the Beam Hadouken Dark gets instead.
7. I think the grab pose for Dark SGS could also use a change. It just looks awkward, but it's understandable is there's not a suitable sprite.
8. It's odd that there's no separate .def file for each mode. I prefer for a char to have one so I don't suddenly get Dark Mode in the likes of Arcade Mode.
9. Haru Issen is listed as pp instead of kk in the Readme.
10. Air Shunpukyaku appears twice as QCF,K in the Movelist.

I still think she's a bit funny in places but I'm very glad the Dark mode has been expanded on since the original.

Another issue I keep forgotting to mention is that the Movelist appears darker in 1.1 than it does in 1.0:
1.0:
(https://i.imgur.com/5yJpIkq.png)
1.1:
(https://i.imgur.com/XuIqwFo.png)
I had to take the latter via printscreen since it strangely appeared at the right brightness in the screenshot.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: Toni on February 13, 2022, 02:00:00 AM
Sometimes, Sakura's AI seems to do the wrong moves (from the mode that she's not in).

Here you can see regular Sakura perform Dark Sakura's Haru Ichiban: https://streamable.com/6bu4bi
(At no point during the match did she do a mode switch).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: snowy997 on February 13, 2022, 02:57:40 AM
A question: this Sakura is still compatible with RamzaNeko's CS?

I hope it doesn't take long for you to take on Karin and Nakoruru, because the edits other authors did to these characters weren't much profound, unlike with Geese and Ryu.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: rjoran225 on February 13, 2022, 07:23:34 AM
Great to have you back Pots! So far the only issue I'm having is Evil Ryu's palette seem to switch back to ryu when hit.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: PotS on February 13, 2022, 10:21:36 AM
Thanks everyone.

1. Sakura Jime takes too long for me. It's rather it match the speed of the likes of Ken's Tsukami Nage.
It should be accurate to SFA, but I agree with you. I think she could do one choke less.

2. Shunpuu Kyaku goes a bit too high (mostly in terms of hitboxes) and the 2nd spin whiff if she's too close: https://streamable.com/gvczvt
The trajectory itself should also be accurate, but you're right in that I should improve other things to prevent that.

3. Might I suggest changing the palette whenever she does Mode Change? There a chance one would forget she's in Dark Mode due to a lack of indication?
I feel the same way but felt a little lazy to add the palette swapping. I really like old Mugen's way of handling palettes because people can just open the palette folder and change what they want.

4. I'm surprised you didn't give her the Haru Ranman from SF4. It would've made a good LVL3 or 2 version of her Haru Ichiban.
I might have given that to her if I were remaking the character. As updates I mostly only added things I felt the characters really needed.

5. I find it odd that Dark didn't get the MvC Shou'ou Ken, mainly becuase Normal already has it as her EX Shou'ou.
She did though? In fact the old version already had it. Or do you mean the projectile shield?

6. Her MVC Shinkuu Tengyou is quite a random choice for a Dark LVL3 for me. I think I more fitting the choice would be the Beam Hadouken Dark gets instead.
I see where you're coming from. But many characters have Hadouken beams while the Hadouken spam is a Sakura-only thing, so I went for that one.

7. I think the grab pose for Dark SGS could also use a change. It just looks awkward, but it's understandable is there's not a suitable sprite.
It's like that in the source. I kept it because I think it's funny, hehe.

8. It's odd that there's no separate .def file for each mode. I prefer for a char to have one so I don't suddenly get Dark Mode in the likes of Arcade Mode.
This is because I wanted to make Dark Sakura a "stance change" instead of an evil character, like MvC2.

Another issue I keep forgotting to mention is that the Movelist appears darker in 1.1 than it does in 1.0:
That's funny. Especially with the screenshot coming out fine. I'm getting some ideas that should work in both engine versions.

I think you've provided feedback on just about every update now, so thanks for that.

Sometimes, Sakura's AI seems to do the wrong moves (from the mode that she's not in).

Here you can see regular Sakura perform Dark Sakura's Haru Ichiban: https://streamable.com/6bu4bi
(At no point during the match did she do a mode switch).
The AI's will be doing some funny things because I haven't touched them as much as I need to yet.

A question: this Sakura is still compatible with RamzaNeko's CS?
I doubt it since the SFF is different.

I hope it doesn't take long for you to take on Karin and Nakoruru, because the edits other authors did to these characters weren't much profound, unlike with Geese and Ryu.
Sorry but mine won't be very profound either. I think updates until Vega will be interesting, but with the characters I made after that it'll be just routine updates.

Great to have you back Pots! So far the only issue I'm having is Evil Ryu's palette seem to switch back to ryu when hit.
That's weird. Which engine are you using?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: RagingRowen on February 13, 2022, 11:03:59 AM
8. It's odd that there's no separate .def file for each mode. I prefer for a char to have one so I don't suddenly get Dark Mode in the likes of Arcade Mode.
This is because I wanted to make Dark Sakura a "stance change" instead of an evil character, like MvC2.

I mean, I like the utility of it and how you can combo with it, but I think it makes her a bit too 'out there' compared to other traditional CvS chars.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I think Dark Sakura could do with her own LVL3 Port.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: PotS on February 13, 2022, 11:42:32 AM
I think it makes her a bit too 'out there' compared to other traditional CvS chars.
I think all of my characters have something like that. You've just gotten used to it, hehe.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I think Dark Sakura could do with her own LVL3 Port.
Dunno. I think that's like the issue with the def file.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: rjoran225 on February 13, 2022, 09:57:31 PM
Great to have you back Pots! So far the only issue I'm having is Evil Ryu's palette seem to switch back to ryu when hit.
That's weird. Which engine are you using?
[/quote]

MDR Offline mugen 1.1

Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on February 15, 2022, 04:38:50 PM
I just wanna say that finshing of Dan with Morrigan's Eternal Slumber is the best. That is all, lol!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: RagingRowen on February 16, 2022, 11:23:55 AM
Another specific question for the future:
Will Yuri get different supers by chance? I'm mostly learning towards her Chou Ryuko Ranbu from 2002UM and onward to replace for Shin Hien Houou Kyaku.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: snowy997 on February 17, 2022, 07:43:02 PM
A question related to Yuri (when you update her) :

You will add the Hien Senpuu Ken and Hien Senpuu Kyaku moves she had from 96 to 2001?

Because it's sad that SNK forgot that these moves existed in Capcom vs SNK, KOF 2002 and subsequent games.

But that would be hard because these moves would require entire new sprites for them.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: PotS on February 18, 2022, 06:46:55 PM
MDR Offline mugen 1.1
That seems to be a full game type of thing. You shouldn't overwrite characters in those.

I just wanna say that finshing of Dan with Morrigan's Eternal Slumber is the best. That is all, lol!
;D

Another specific question for the future:
Will Yuri get different supers by chance? I'm mostly learning towards her Chou Ryuko Ranbu from 2002UM and onward to replace for Shin Hien Houou Kyaku.
Truth be told I'm not 100% happy with Yuri's movelist, but I don't feel like changing that for now.

A question related to Yuri (when you update her) :

You will add the Hien Senpuu Ken and Hien Senpuu Kyaku moves she had from 96 to 2001?

Because it's sad that SNK forgot that these moves existed in Capcom vs SNK, KOF 2002 and subsequent games.

But that would be hard because these moves would require entire new sprites for them.
It's been a long time, but I remember that those moves were considered. The kick I think was left out because it would complete her transformation into a shoto clone, and because I'd already made Sakura. The punch I forget why it was left out, but remember working on the sprites at some point.

I can see why SNK/Capcom left them behind because they're parodies of other moves and not staple Yuri attacks. One of the coolest things about old SNK was how experimental they were with movelists between each game, but obviously you can't keep everything going forward.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: thebigguy270 on February 20, 2022, 08:15:30 PM
Sad but true...
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on February 21, 2022, 01:17:31 AM
Question: what are your plans for Morrigan?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Sakura added)
Post by: extravagant on February 26, 2022, 01:58:16 AM
Hello POTS, was curious.

Your style has been coined the name "POTS style" for the longest time. but, what would you personally name it? If there was a POTS style fullgame or just a character style, what would you name it?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: PotS on February 26, 2022, 10:49:32 AM
Question: what are your plans for Morrigan?
Her update is similar to Sakura I guess. Added Air Darkness Illusion as a level 2 and tweaked some things to feel more like Darkstalkers.
Anyone paying attention may have noticed that I skipped her in the update order. She has a couple things that are boring to update so I haven't made a release yet, but her progress is the same as other characters.

Hello POTS, was curious.

Your style has been coined the name "POTS style" for the longest time. but, what would you personally name it? If there was a POTS style fullgame or just a character style, what would you name it?
Back in the day I think we just called it Mugen style. ;P I think that's a trick question. I rather people keep calling it that. When I see people take the assets I took 4 years to develop, and give it a different name, it reminds me of the Sonic community.

A couple of updates today:

Ryu
- His changelog was getting a bit long so here's another version

Vega
- Has a new super, but other than that it's the same kind of update usual
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: WF4123 on February 26, 2022, 11:11:08 AM
Vega
- Has a new super, but other than that it's the same kind of update usual

Vega got a new super for now on, exactly this is why.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: RagingRowen on February 26, 2022, 01:05:59 PM
Question: what are your plans for Morrigan?
Her update is similar to Sakura I guess. Added Air Darkness Illusion as a level 2 and tweaked some things to feel more like Darkstalkers.
Anyone paying attention may have noticed that I skipped her in the update order. She has a couple things that are boring to update so I haven't made a release yet, but her progress is the same as other characters.

Hello POTS, was curious.

Your style has been coined the name "POTS style" for the longest time. but, what would you personally name it? If there was a POTS style fullgame or just a character style, what would you name it?
Back in the day I think we just called it Mugen style. ;P I think that's a trick question. I rather people keep calling it that. When I see people take the assets I took 4 years to develop, and give it a different name, it reminds me of the Sonic community.

A couple of updates today:

Ryu
- His changelog was getting a bit long so here's another version

Vega
- Has a new super, but other than that it's the same kind of update usual

I think my only critique for Ryu as of now is the hitsound during Shin Shoryuken. It's too soft in contrast to the original's IMO.

I don't have many complaints for Dictator but I do wish he had EX moves and charge inputs for his Booster and KPN coz it's odd to do them with QCFs.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Lurker on February 26, 2022, 01:45:55 PM
Tested Ryu now and he have some weird things happening:
Normal Ryu: He lost Kyuubi Kudaki and is using Seichuu Nidan Tsuki instead, I can do Kaze no Ken with D,D QCFx2 and QCBx2.
Evil Ryu: He lost Seichuu Nidan Tsuki.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: PotS on February 26, 2022, 02:00:53 PM
I think my only critique for Ryu as of now is the hitsound during Shin Shoryuken. It's too soft in contrast to the original's IMO.
I kind of like it. It's from DBZ.  ;D

I don't have many complaints for Dictator but I do wish he had EX moves and charge inputs for his Booster and KPN coz it's odd to do them with QCFs.
EX moves would be too much work for the scope of these updates, because his movelist is already about as long as Shin Gouki's. You may be right about the charge supers, but that would be a nerf. I'll let more people weigh in if they'd prefer charge motions for those.

I think I originally made them motions because SF3 handled charge characters like that. My characters were a mish mash of ideas like that...

Tested Ryu now and he have some weird things happening:
Normal Ryu: He lost Kyuubi Kudaki and is using Seichuu Nidan Tsuki instead, I can do Kaze no Ken with D,D QCFx2 and QCBx2.
Evil Ryu: He lost Seichuu Nidan Tsuki.
Don't you hate it when last minute changes break everything? Sorry. Please redownload, and thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: RagingRowen on February 26, 2022, 03:03:08 PM
I think my only critique for Ryu as of now is the hitsound during Shin Shoryuken. It's too soft in contrast to the original's IMO.
I kind of like it. It's from DBZ.  ;D

I dunno. It personally clashes with the sharp, stingy smacks of the CFJ hitsounds. It would probably sound cooler if you had the two play at the same time.

Oh and I personally think Psycho Break Smasher and Nightmare Booster could be swapped Level-wise. The latter's a bit much for LVL1 standards.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Calypso on February 26, 2022, 05:21:35 PM
Welcome back PotS!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Tiger-Boy on February 26, 2022, 06:44:53 PM
I was waiting for Vega.

Thanks, and welcome back, POTS!  :bjugoi:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: GT Wonder on February 27, 2022, 01:48:12 AM
I was waiting for Vega.

Thanks, and welcome back, POTS!  :bjugoi:

Wrong Vega if you're thinking its the more obvious one judging from your avatar lol. Pots for some reason still goes by the JP names even though most of us use the english ones these days.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Toni on February 27, 2022, 08:44:42 AM
Is Nightmare Booster working as intended? This looks very wrong...
https://streamable.com/pkm5m8

(Also, the final point in the move details section of the readme still mentions "Heartbreak Despair" instead of "Nightmare Booster")
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: WF4123 on February 27, 2022, 09:49:47 AM
Is Nightmare Booster working as intended? This looks very wrong...
https://streamable.com/pkm5m8

How? How does Vega can't hit her for that same move which it's added? So I'm confusion. (https://youtu.be/U7X7cEh5au8?t=4)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: PotS on February 27, 2022, 10:19:04 AM
Thanks, guys.

Oh and I personally think Psycho Break Smasher and Nightmare Booster could be swapped Level-wise. The latter's a bit much for LVL1 standards.
I had the same idea and can see it working either way. But in the end I kept it the way it is because PBS is often a level 3 only move and because the FX is bigger. :8): NB is half of an Ultra animation.

Wrong Vega if you're thinking its the more obvious one judging from your avatar lol. Pots for some reason still goes by the JP names even though most of us use the english ones these days.
To be honest, at this point in time I only use the JP names for tradition and compatibility, and because it takes 5 seconds to change that on the user end.
I guess I could keep the names and change the display names.

Is Nightmare Booster working as intended? This looks very wrong...
https://streamable.com/pkm5m8

(Also, the final point in the move details section of the readme still mentions "Heartbreak Despair" instead of "Nightmare Booster")
Oops. It's because of the way my characters handle air restets. When I changed the juggle system, I forgot to adapt that move to the new system.
But I've been thinking about changing the way air resets work anyway, and your post was the last push I needed.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: O Ilusionista on February 27, 2022, 08:52:51 PM
Meu velho amigo, bom vê-lo de volta.
I gonna check the updates right now :)

And are you inspired to try Ikemen too?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Toni on February 27, 2022, 10:53:20 PM
There's also this odd interaction with your Dan that turns Vega invisible for a moment: https://streamable.com/gh8wxm

Edit:
Also, your most recent Akuma's grabs don't work.  o_O
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Ness on February 28, 2022, 03:57:41 AM
There's also this odd interaction with your Dan that turns Vega invisible for a moment: https://streamable.com/gh8wxm

Edit:
Also, your most recent Akuma's grabs don't work.  o_O

i also noticed this, it's iffy but his F+K throws tend to miss qute often
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: PotS on February 28, 2022, 07:16:56 PM
And are you inspired to try Ikemen too?
Velho é a palavra certa. ;D It feels like I joined MugenBR a lifetime ago, and you were already a veteran member at the time. Actually, the other day I was reminiscing, and I remembered that it was one of your comments that convinced me to start using high resolution effects in my characters.

And are you inspired to try Ikemen too?
I just want to do these updates for now. Not sure if I'll still feel like doing more work when I'm done.
In regards to Ikemen specifically, I kind of want to see it be as stable as 1.0 before I even consider migrating. Not sure if it's just my system, but 1.0 feels a lot more optimized.

There's also this odd interaction with your Dan that turns Vega invisible for a moment: https://streamable.com/gh8wxm
Congratulations on finding a new (?) engine bug. It looks like Mugen doesn't like it if you change animations during the opponent's hitpause. It happens with the old char versions, too. Wonder if it happened in WinMugen.

Also, your most recent Akuma's grabs don't work.  o_O
i also noticed this, it's iffy but his F+K throws tend to miss qute often
Haha. I wonder when I messed that up.
I don't like having that bug out there, so I updated the files, if you don't mind redownloading. Vega's too because of the invisibility bug, but that's a very minor thing.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Toni on March 03, 2022, 06:55:56 PM
Sorry, found another bug with your Akuma: his fiery hadoken will send opponents below the stage when they attempt to recover in the air.
https://streamable.com/fibdkn
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: WF4123 on March 03, 2022, 07:22:03 PM
Sorry, found another bug with your Akuma: his fiery hadoken will send opponents below the stage when they attempt to recover in the air.
https://streamable.com/fibdkn

Why does he falls so infinitely when it happened? This is strangest thing what Akuma done for it.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: PotS on March 03, 2022, 09:42:55 PM
Sorry, found another bug with your Akuma: his fiery hadoken will send opponents below the stage when they attempt to recover in the air.
https://streamable.com/fibdkn
I'd run into that one as well in the meantime, but thanks for pointing it out. I think I'll update everyone again this weekend anyway, because I found one line of code that can make Mugen crash in Simul without warning. :XD:

I'll move this thread to Projects so I don't feel guilty about the frequent updates. Seems more appropriate at this point in time. When I update a character here it doesn't mean that it's done and that I'm moving on to the next. They're all being updated at the same time.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Kagami on March 05, 2022, 07:08:30 AM
Best project and best comeback

Thanks for being back at it!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: PotS on March 05, 2022, 03:07:44 PM
Thanks. :)

All characters updated so far have been updated again. Mostly bug fixing.

I still have some things to fix in them according to my spreadsheet, but they seem minor. Starting to see the finish line for these 7 individuals.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Toni on March 06, 2022, 01:42:23 AM
Neat :)

One more (but very minor) thing: the hitspark position on Guy's taunt doesn't look right.
(https://i.ibb.co/2gvQQTB/mugen012.png) (https://ibb.co/QrPRR4G)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: WF4123 on March 06, 2022, 11:28:24 AM
All characters updated so far have been updated again. Mostly bug fixing.

Possibly, it was good.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Toni on March 06, 2022, 06:11:44 PM
Another thing about your Lei-Lei this time: I don't know if it's intentional, but her crouching HK hitbox is pretty bad in so far that it can't hit some "smaller" characters even when they are standing, including an opposing Lei-Lei.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: PotS on March 08, 2022, 10:15:55 PM
One more (but very minor) thing: the hitspark position on Guy's taunt doesn't look right.
Fixed. It's easy to forget the taunts when adjusting hit sparks.

Another thing about your Lei-Lei this time: I don't know if it's intentional, but her crouching HK hitbox is pretty bad in so far that it can't hit some "smaller" characters even when they are standing, including an opposing Lei-Lei.
It was intentional in that I made it a utiliy normal of sorts, being pretty much exclusively an antiair. I'll buff it.

Question: Does anyone want me to change Nakoruru's hit sparks? I'm on the fence on that one, since the old ones already look good, albeit different.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: RagingRowen on March 08, 2022, 10:22:44 PM
Question: Does anyone want me to change Nakoruru's hit sparks? I'm on the fence on that one, since the old ones already look good, albeit different.

Sure. I assume the modern Hi-Res sparks haven't had Slash FX yet, right?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Toni on March 08, 2022, 10:35:49 PM
Personally, I like her current sparks, but eh, if you feel that they need an update, that's fine, too.

So, one more bug report for Guy: pressing MP while holding forward sends him to an invalid state: https://streamable.com/9mwowd
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: PotS on March 08, 2022, 10:47:38 PM
Sure. I assume the modern Hi-Res sparks haven't had Slash FX yet, right?
They're in Lei-Lei and (unreleased) Morrigan.

So, one more bug report for Guy: pressing b,f+MP sends him to an invalid state: https://streamable.com/9mwowd
Ah, dangit. Looks like he lost his overhead. :derp:
I recently fixed an old pet peeve I had with my older characters, in that they did not use the common numbers for normal attack states. To fix that I had to replace literally hundreds of numbers in the coding (I love you, Notepad++), so it was almost impossible not to break something, somewhere. Let me know if you find something else like that.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Toni on March 08, 2022, 11:13:25 PM
Sure, I can do that.

For now, here's something I found with Dan. Holding start during his standing and crouching taunt gives error messages (and some slightly odd behavior in case of the standing one): https://streamable.com/vd7q45
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: senorfro on March 09, 2022, 12:44:01 AM
Curious, is there a way to turn stun off?  Or, how exactly does the stun system work?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: PotS on March 09, 2022, 06:52:49 PM
For now, here's something I found with Dan. Holding start during his standing and crouching taunt gives error messages (and some slightly odd behavior in case of the standing one): https://streamable.com/vd7q45
I'd completely forgotten he can even delay the taunts, haha. That would be an easy fix, but I think I'll just disable that feature. Thanks again.

Curious, is there a way to turn stun off?  Or, how exactly does the stun system work?
You can paste this in any negative state:

Code:
[State -2, Stun Killer]
type = varset
trigger1 = 1
var(42) = -1
ignorehitpause = 1
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Vega added)
Post by: Kagami on March 11, 2022, 03:59:06 AM
Ah, dangit. Looks like he lost his overhead. :derp:
I recently fixed an old pet peeve I had with my older characters, in that they did not use the common numbers for normal attack states. To fix that I had to replace literally hundreds of numbers in the coding (I love you, Notepad++), so it was almost impossible not to break something, somewhere. Let me know if you find something else like that.

BTW

besides Notepad++, which tools do you use to create/modify your characters nowadays? FF3.6.3?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: PotS on March 18, 2022, 06:16:17 PM
I haven't changed that much compared to 2010. Let's see...

States, CMD, etc - Notepad++. Especially useful when you're updating 16 characters at a time
SFF - Fighter Factory Ultimate. Once in a while I remake them with Dark Saviour's SFF 2 Turbo Revival because during my formative years you couldn't trust FF with anything
SND - FFU
AIR - FFU, Notepad++
Palettes - Paint Shop Pro 7, Notepad++ and Paletero

Sprites - MSPaint, PSP7. PSP9 or Photoshop for effects although I've barely made any for these updates
Sounds - GoldWave
Game data - ArtMoney, FAQ's, wikis, guidebooks...


Some early updates for the weekend:

Guy
- Fixed the bugs Toni mentioned

Yuri
- Same as usual
- This character (and Nash) was a bit of a transition between my older and newer characters. Should feel less odd with this update

Pocket Shin Gouki
- Although I haven't spent as much time on him as on the other characters, ironically it may be the character that changed the most
- Plays more like Marvel now. System is a bit half baked though
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: WF4123 on March 18, 2022, 07:31:33 PM
Osu! This Yuri update, and still, look wonder how she got a special tweak and update.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on March 18, 2022, 08:59:22 PM
Question: after updating these guys, do you intend to go back to making new chars?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: RagingRowen on March 18, 2022, 09:36:15 PM
It's my turn for feedback again.

Yuri:
- No EX Raiouken? If you need inspiration, XIII and onward make her throw 2 projectiles, Gouki style.
- I know it's not an EX Move, but I think Triple Chou shouldn't give power since it can only be done after the EX Double Chou.
- Yuri Chou Enbu, 2 things: 1. Why the different command? (QCFx2+2k) It's very odd when the SGS is given a different input. 2. Why give the Super-to-Super cancel option when it doesn't connect after hits? Allowing that would be pretty badass IMO.

Pocket SG:
- Might I suggest making Power Charge every P+K strength? It's odd when LP+LK and HP+HK aren't used at all.
- I feel like his Gou Shoryuken and all Supers should knockdown, mainly because he'd probably be wide-open for attack upon hit, which I think is apparent with LP Gou SRK.
- I'm not quite sure about the Half Circle Level 2 commands. I feel you could do them instead of Level 1s by accident if you're too flimsy with inputs.
- I kinda wish you could Super-to-Super cancel.
- Edit: I think Zugai Hasatsu could do with a serious buff. It barely has any use in this style, mainly since it's not an overhead (which is common for slow normals like this) and you can't cancel out of it (Edit 2: You can super-cancel it, but I feel like special-cancels can be allowed at least).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Toni on March 18, 2022, 09:42:46 PM
Hmm. I'm not sure if I like Pocket Shin Gouki's graphical updates yet, but the gameplay seems nicer overall for the most part.

Some bugs I found:

Pocket Shin Gouki:
- If you whiff an aerial grab shortly before landing on the ground, Gouki will just fall through it (though he will reappear once the animation is finished).
- This may be due to the afterimage tweaks, but most of his fireballs seem to linger on one frame for a pretty long time once they are destroyed. The only exception seems to be his Tenma Gou Zankuu, and only when it whiffs and hits the ground.
Edit:
- When Gouki tries guarding from attacks while jumping, his gravity increases: https://streamable.com/n9upt7
- I don't know if much can be done about this, but the super sparks are cut off rather obviously when Gouki activates his supers while out of screen: https://streamable.com/il2k1m
This has been a thing in the old version, too, but his new increased jump height makes it more obvious then ever before on certain stages.
- Not really a bug, but compared to the old version, the AI is now rather bland, focusing a lot on charging power.

Yuri:
- A whiffed EX Saifa always plays what seems to be a hit-sound at the end of the move.
- Her Yuri Chou Enbu is done by doing a d,f,d,f+2K instead of the SGS motion that's mentioned in the readme.
Edit:
- Since you (sadly) removed the names of supers appearing on KO on your other updated characters, I assume that leaving them in Yuri was an oversight?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: PotS on March 19, 2022, 11:03:06 AM
Thanks. Some great points here.

Question: after updating these guys, do you intend to go back to making new chars?
I don't really know yet. It's fun to make these little adjustments in my spare time, but when I think of making a full character I get a big "been there, done that" feeling.

It's my turn for feedback again.

Yuri:
- No EX Raiouken? If you need inspiration, XIII and onward make her throw 2 projectiles, Gouki style.
100% pure laziness. :bjgoi: But now that you mentioned it I'll have to add it. I'm thinking of letting the fireball persist after hitting, so it always does the ground flame part.

Quote
- I know it's not an EX Move, but I think Triple Chou shouldn't give power since it can only be done after the EX Double Chou.
I had removed it from the Hitdef but apparently forgot to remove the poweradd at the start.

Quote
- Yuri Chou Enbu, 2 things: 1. Why the different command? (QCFx2+2k) It's very odd when the SGS is given a different input. 2. Why give the Super-to-Super cancel option when it doesn't connect after hits? Allowing that would be pretty badass IMO.
1 is just because I've made many characters with Shun Goku Satsu and wanted hers to feel a little different.
2, because when a Capcom move is cancellable into a type of move, it's cancellable into all moves of that type, even if pointless. I actually made it comboable at one point, so maybe I'll reconsider that.

Quote
Pocket SG:
- Might I suggest making Power Charge every P+K strength? It's odd when LP+LK and HP+HK aren't used at all.
That's a good point. I'll allow any punch + any kick.

Quote
- I feel like his Gou Shoryuken and all Supers should knockdown, mainly because he'd probably be wide-open for attack upon hit, which I think is apparent with LP Gou SRK.
I'd noticed but forgot to fix it. I'll leave them not knocking down because that's the rule for most moves in this style, but the hittime will have to be increased so it's not punishable on hit.

Quote
- I'm not quite sure about the Half Circle Level 2 commands. I feel you could do them instead of Level 1s by accident if you're too flimsy with inputs.
Yeah but I'm not sure what else they could be. 3 punches would have the opposite problem in that you'd get level 1's by accident. And 2 x quarter circle would feel out of place.

Quote
- I kinda wish you could Super-to-Super cancel.
I've been thinking about it as well.

Quote
- Edit: I think Zugai Hasatsu could do with a serious buff. It barely has any use in this style, mainly since it's not an overhead (which is common for slow normals like this) and you can't cancel out of it (Edit 2: You can super-cancel it, but I feel like special-cancels can be allowed at least).
It was obviously supposed to be an overhead, but I somehow messed up the guardflag all those years ago and you're the first to notice. :jackie:
Allowing the super cancel was another oversight.

Hmm. I'm not sure if I like Pocket Shin Gouki's graphical updates yet, but the gameplay seems nicer overall for the most part.
He made way too much use of afterimage effects (still does a bit). It's a waste of memory so I chose to simplify the sparks.

Quote
Some bugs I found:

Pocket Shin Gouki:
- If you whiff an aerial grab shortly before landing on the ground, Gouki will just fall through it (though he will reappear once the animation is finished).
- This may be due to the afterimage tweaks, but most of his fireballs seem to linger on one frame for a pretty long time once they are destroyed. The only exception seems to be his Tenma Gou Zankuu, and only when it whiffs and hits the ground.
Edit:
- When Gouki tries guarding from attacks while jumping, his gravity increases: https://streamable.com/n9upt7
Fixed x 3

Quote
- I don't know if much can be done about this, but the super sparks are cut off rather obviously when Gouki activates his supers while out of screen: https://streamable.com/il2k1m
This has been a thing in the old version, too, but his new increased jump height makes it more obvious then ever before on certain stages.
I'll make the BG only appear if he's on screen.

Quote
- Not really a bug, but compared to the old version, the AI is now rather bland, focusing a lot on charging power.
This is odd because I didn't really touch it. Will look into it.

Quote
Yuri:
- A whiffed EX Saifa always plays what seems to be a hit-sound at the end of the move.
- Her Yuri Chou Enbu is done by doing a d,f,d,f+2K instead of the SGS motion that's mentioned in the readme.
Fixed x 2

Quote
- Since you (sadly) removed the names of supers appearing on KO on your other updated characters, I assume that leaving them in Yuri was an oversight?
I didn't remove them. I just didn't add them. ;P I care more about some features than others, and the super names have kind of grown old to me. The characters that had it will keep it though.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Foobs on March 19, 2022, 02:47:04 PM
I was trying to kara cancel en yoku into saifa and found out that if you input hcb+P cho upper (!) will come out.
PotS said:
- Tweaked Raiouken (hit version, now called Raioushou) so it feels more like a Capcom special
On that note, why not making air raioken feel more like a Capcom fireball? (lower recovery and/or not forcing the player into a crouching position like in KOF)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on March 19, 2022, 03:54:55 PM
Quote
- Since you (sadly) removed the names of supers appearing on KO on your other updated characters, I assume that leaving them in Yuri was an oversight?
I didn't remove them. I just didn't add them. ;P I care more about some features than others, and the super names have kind of grown old to me. The characters that had it will keep it though.
If it's not too much, would you add them to everyone? I know they're old, but I always thought they were cool.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Toni on March 19, 2022, 07:13:14 PM
Oh wow, I could have sworn that the super names had been there before.  :sweatdrop: Eh, no worries then.

Oh, here's another fun bug from Pocket Shin Gouki: After a side switch when he performs a special attack just as he turns around, he'll only perform the light version of the move, no matter the strength of the button pressed.
The timing is strict, but so far, I've made it happen with both his tatsu and his dp. No idea if other specials might be affected, too.

https://streamable.com/qb55ou
https://streamable.com/deimvb

It's difficult to show the bug on video. Just trust me when I say I did not accidentally use the light buttons when performing these moves.

Edit:
Oh no. Your other characters seem to have this, too. It's just that the timing is even stricter, but I just did it with your (non-pocket) Shin Gouki.

https://streamable.com/s6tlif
https://streamable.com/u64job
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: PotS on March 19, 2022, 09:37:47 PM
I was trying to kara cancel en yoku into saifa and found out that if you input hcb+P cho upper (!) will come out.
I haven't been able to reproduce this yet. However the DP shortcuts probably have something to do with it. My characters now accept "forward, any down, any forward".

Were you trying to do that because it's a gimmick in some KOF by the way? I could add it.

Quote
PotS said:
- Tweaked Raiouken (hit version, now called Raioushou) so it feels more like a Capcom special
On that note, why not making air raioken feel more like a Capcom fireball? (lower recovery and/or not forcing the player into a crouching position like in KOF)
I shortened the recovery slightly after adding the EX version, but I'm afraid it'd just turn into Akuma's fireball (which I guess is what you meant) if I went further.
I could make it alter her trajectory instead of allowing some followups, but that might be less fun and more turtley. Will dwell on it.

If it's not too much, would you add them to everyone? I know they're old, but I always thought they were cool.
I won't rule out that possibility since you're the second person to request it.

Oh, here's another fun bug from Pocket Shin Gouki: After a side switch when he performs a special attack just as he turns around, he'll only perform the light version of the move, no matter the strength of the button pressed.
The timing is strict, but so far, I've made it happen with both his tatsu and his dp. No idea if other specials might be affected, too.

https://streamable.com/qb55ou
https://streamable.com/deimvb

It's difficult to show the bug on video. Just trust me when I say I did not accidentally use the light buttons when performing these moves.

Edit:
Oh no. Your other characters seem to have this, too. It's just that the timing is even stricter, but I just did it with your (non-pocket) Shin Gouki.

https://streamable.com/s6tlif
https://streamable.com/u64job
Now this one is interesting. I found the problem already.

The thing is my character updates detect the inputs from a helper so they can reverse input directions when the opponent is behind them. But when deciding the strength of the move (X, Y or Z Shoryuken) I used the character's inputs directly. In theory, the helper's inputs and the character's inputs are always the same under normal conditions, but Mugen likes to throw you a curve ball every now and then. It turns out pressing a button may randomly be detected in the character but not the helper, or vice-versa, and to top it off that random chance increases if the opponent is behind the player.

Long story short I've fixed it in PSG and will do it for everyone. Thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: SOLIDUS SNAKE on March 20, 2022, 06:45:28 AM
Off topic, I think pots needs a character vote system. The next fighter, we want him to bring to life. We the original og pots style, with some new flavor.lol Now who’s down with me, on that tip.lol
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: YugaCurry on March 20, 2022, 07:32:22 AM
Off topic, I think pots needs a character vote system. The next fighter, we want him to bring to life. We the original og pots style, with some new flavor.lol Now who’s down with me, on that tip.lol

For starters, you gotta ask if pots is down with that.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: lui on March 20, 2022, 10:09:45 AM
Off topic, I think pots needs a character vote system. The next fighter, we want him to bring to life. We the original og pots style, with some new flavor.lol Now who’s down with me, on that tip.lol

no.

let him do what he wants. he has clearly stated he only wants to do character updates.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on March 20, 2022, 03:50:36 PM
Off topic, I think pots needs a character vote system. The next fighter, we want him to bring to life. We the original og pots style, with some new flavor.lol Now who’s down with me, on that tip.lol
He said already that he isn't sure if he'd make a character from scratch. Also, even if he wanted to do it, what makes you think he'd just make one that people want instead of something that he wanted himself? This isn't a request thread, its about the updates to his old characters, keep on topic.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: PotS on March 20, 2022, 07:50:44 PM
I could make it alter her trajectory instead of allowing some followups, but that might be less fun and more turtley. Will dwell on it.
In the end I changed Raiouken to that. It just feels better, even if it becomes more defensive. EX version keeps her jump arc.

Off topic, I think pots needs a character vote system. The next fighter, we want him to bring to life. We the original og pots style, with some new flavor.lol Now who’s down with me, on that tip.lol
This is not a democracy. :8):

I don't know yet. It's hard to feel excited about making a character when people have already converted almost everything to my style. Even if you don't like X or Y versions of a character, there would be little gain in making it again.
I'd probably want to do something different. Or not, who knows.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Mysticus92 on March 20, 2022, 08:10:54 PM
I tried to perform her Yuri Chou Enbu, but it doesn't seem to work for some reason.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: PotS on March 20, 2022, 09:06:21 PM
I changed it to QCF QCF KK

Several people are mentioning that. I wonder if I should change it back. Maybe the other changes I did to it already accomplish what I wanted.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Cyborg Sun on March 21, 2022, 02:32:37 AM
Oh, by the way, I saw you posted some code for removing the stun mechanic earlier in the thread. Maybe you can put it in the first post? You could also show how to remove the movelists, for old farts like me who prefer "the good old days".

Can't say I expected Pocket Gouki to get updated, lmao. Makes me wonder what treatment RareKuma will get. Do you have any plans for the Reu trio, since you edited them in the past? (Not that they need anything, I guess, although who knows, maybe there are small issues I don't know about. Up to you.)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Foobs on March 21, 2022, 03:50:57 AM
Quote
Were you trying to do that because it's a gimmick in some KOF by the way? I could add it.
Well no, or at least not as far as I am aware, but at the moment it just seemed like I'd be appropriate in a Capcom setting. Like if Yuri was an Alpha character I could see kara canceling that move to add transfer the momentum to shokoken or chou upper.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: SNT on March 21, 2022, 07:07:25 AM
Well damn. He's back. Good to see you, man.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: PotS on March 21, 2022, 11:19:20 AM
Oh, by the way, I saw you posted some code for removing the stun mechanic earlier in the thread. Maybe you can put it in the first post? You could also show how to remove the movelists, for old farts like me who prefer "the good old days".
I think that'd just be encouraging people to disable it. ;P
I'm toying with the idea of a config file so we'll see. I don't think said file would allow you to disable the movelist, though, since there's already no way you'll see it by accident.

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Can't say I expected Pocket Gouki to get updated, lmao.
I have a love/hate relationship with Pocket Gouki because it's the first character I finished, but that also means I wrote most of the code in high school... It's fine for the player, but I can't help but feel it needs to be recoded. I'm sure other coders can relate.

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Makes me wonder what treatment RareKuma will get.
It's the most ironic update ever because I only did bug fixes.

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Do you have any plans for the Reu trio, since you edited them in the past? (Not that they need anything, I guess, although who knows, maybe there are small issues I don't know about. Up to you.)
Only if people found serious bugs. It was never my intention to take custody of those characters (I didn't upload them myself to my site, I guess people just needed them mirrored) and I already did what I promised to Reu.

Well no, or at least not as far as I am aware, but at the moment it just seemed like I'd be appropriate in a Capcom setting. Like if Yuri was an Alpha character I could see kara canceling that move to add transfer the momentum to shokoken or chou upper.
I think adding more properties to En Yoku could break it since it's already a long range hop over lows. I could see kara-cancelling into Saifa for instance being useful, but that was before I extended its range like I did yesterday. ;P In fact I made a few ninja changes that will make her a lot stronger in the right hands.

Well damn. He's back. Good to see you, man.
Thanks. :)


I'm sure someone will hate me for this, but I think Charlie has too many super moves. I might split them between both modes like this:

Quote
CHARLIE

Level 1
.Sonic Break:           (charge) B, F, B, F, p
.Crossfire Blitz:       (charge) B, F, B, F, k
.Moonsault Strike:      D, DF, F, D, DF, F, k (Air)

Level 2
.Somersault Justice:    (charge) DB, DF, DB, U, k

Level 3
.Sonic Blade:           (charge) B, F, B, F, pp

SHADOW

Level 1
.Sonic Break:           D, DF, F, D, DF, F, p
.Reverse Sommersault:   D, DB, B, D, DB, B, k
.Moonsault Strike:      D, DF, F, D, DF, F, k (Air)

Level 2
.Crossfire Blitz (MvC): D, DF, F, D, DF, F, KK

Level 3
.Final Mission:         D, DF, F, D, DF, F, pp

Previously only the Level 3 was different between modes.
Oh and as you may have noticed, I made Shadow not need charging (with a defense penalty).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: RagingRowen on March 21, 2022, 11:39:13 AM
I have a love/hate relationship with Pocket Gouki because it's the first character I finished, but that also means I wrote most of the code in high school... It's fine for the player, but I can't help but feel it needs to be recoded. I'm sure other coders can relate.

I do kinda wish you'd revisit your MvC style. I feel teased by the fact it's only on 1 char and I'd be curious to see how you'd handle the likes of Marvel's characters.

On the topic of Charlie losing charges for Shadow, do or did you consider giving him some SFV stuff?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: PotS on March 21, 2022, 03:20:56 PM
I do kinda wish you'd revisit your MvC style. I feel teased by the fact it's only on 1 char and I'd be curious to see how you'd handle the likes of Marvel's characters.
I actually did a couple of ventures into MvC characters but never released anything. The most complete one was another Shin Akuma (based on Cyber Akuma data) and it was actually turning into one of my most fun chars ever. If I did another character, that style would be a good candidate.

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On the topic of Charlie losing charges for Shadow, do or did you consider giving him some SFV stuff?
No. Sorry. SFA and SF5 versions are completely different so it'd be more work than I can handle. Karin is on the same boat.

The charge loss is actually one of the oldest changes I did, around the time I retired. He had two command files and two modes, so I thought why not make things simpler.

Back to SF5 though, am I the only one to notice the similarities between that version and my char? I mean, EX Moonsault is one of my supers, and his Critical Art is two of my original moves rolled up into one.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on March 21, 2022, 03:50:36 PM
You're one of the most renowned MUGEN creators, it wouldn't surprise me if a Capcom dev played your chars and got some ideas from your Charlie.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: PotS on March 22, 2022, 05:49:39 PM
I have the week off from work so I'd like to progress a good bit in these updates. Expect several releases. Probably. Another one:

Morrigan:
- Aimed for more of a Darkstalkers feel
- May have made her too strong :8):
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: WF4123 on March 22, 2022, 06:11:16 PM
That update looks cool that it said for Morrigan: "Red Bat gives you wings"
That Red Bull references. : )
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: theanhvn95 on March 22, 2022, 06:18:34 PM
Do you planned to re-release Ken this time? I remember you have released Ken and Violent Ken but take down them before.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: RagingRowen on March 22, 2022, 06:35:26 PM
Good effort but I think there's a bit of weirdness with her:
- Do you not have any other ideas for special intros?
- I can't seem to jump from Ecstatic Climb like you stated.
- Is Parasite Spin a custom take on it? I remember her leaping slightly as opposed to spinning straight forward.
- EX Vector Drain doesn't seem worthwhile because I think it could do with (at least) startup invincibility or the added ability to combo into it.
- You accidentally kept Air Soul Phoenix as its own thing in the Readme.
- Air Darkness Illusion only requires 1 bar as opposed to 2. I also feel like it should be done with 2K because I've been doing it on accident at times. It's still clever that you used the original CvS2 variant for a weaker version instead of the extended one.
- I know it's an unblockable projectile, but I feel like Eternal Slumber could use a speck more damage (just about going into the 300s).
- Dark Force still consumes 3 bars. I think Lei-Lei does that as well.
- No Pursuit Attack for her like you did with Lei-Lei? I can get by the lack of it since she (was) closer to the CvS variant, but it would be nice for consistency.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: PotS on March 22, 2022, 07:07:32 PM
Thanks.

Do you planned to re-release Ken this time? I remember you have released Ken and Violent Ken but take down them before.
I never did release Ken. Someone (I never knew or cared who) leaked the char, and then it was finished by JMorphman and I guess other people throughout the years. You may be thinking about that.

Good effort but I think there's a bit of weirdness with her:
Would you mind elaborating, or do you mean the things in your list?

Quote
- Do you not have any other ideas for special intros?
Those aren't really part of my plans for these updates.

Quote
- I can't seem to jump from Ecstatic Climb like you stated.
It has to connect. It might be her biggest buff because you can use that cancel to combo after a chain combo or just go into a reset.

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- Is Parasite Spin a custom take on it? I remember her leaping slightly as opposed to spinning straight forward.
Yeah. That move is exclusive to Lilith. I added it because JustNoPoint made the sprites a million years ago and they were unused.
I gave it very different physics from Lilith so it's not just copy pasted.

Quote
- EX Vector Drain doesn't seem worthwhile because I think it could do with (at least) startup invincibility or the added ability to combo into it.
It just has extra range and damage. Easy to miss, but EX throws are often just that. I feel that making it better could make her a grappler.

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- Air Darkness Illusion only requires 1 bar as opposed to 2. I also feel like it should be done with 2K because I've been doing it on accident at times. It's still clever that you used the original CvS2 variant for a weaker version instead of the extended one.
Thanks. I'll think about making it KK. If nothing else it'd be more consistent with the other moves.

Quote
- I know it's an unblockable projectile, but I feel like Eternal Slumber could use a speck more damage (just about going into the 300s).
Forgot to adjust it to the new damage scaling. It's going to happen every now and then and I thank you for pointing it out.

Quote
- Dark Force still consumes 3 bars. I think Lei-Lei does that as well.
Fixed (both).

Quote
- No Pursuit Attack for her like you did with Lei-Lei? I can get by the lack of it since she (was) closer to the CvS variant, but it would be nice for consistency.
I have it in my to-do list but am feeling really lazy about it. I think I'm reaching update burnout.

Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: RagingRowen on March 22, 2022, 07:26:44 PM
Good effort but I think there's a bit of weirdness with her:
Would you mind elaborating, or do you mean the things in your list?

That was just my introduction to the feedback.

Quote
- I can't seem to jump from Ecstatic Climb like you stated.
It has to connect. It might be her biggest buff because you can use that cancel to combo after a chain combo or just go into a reset.

Ah. It was trying to input the jump after the hit as opposed to during it. I think it would be a good idea to increased the cancel window a bit to maybe a frame or so after the hitframes.

Quote
- No Pursuit Attack for her like you did with Lei-Lei? I can get by the lack of it since she (was) closer to the CvS variant, but it would be nice for consistency.
I have it in my to-do list but am feeling really lazy about it. I think I'm reaching update burnout.

Damn. I actually have the same thing happen to me at times.
Sometimes I even have the tendency to scratch something off my to-do list even though I didn't actually add or change it.  :confused:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on March 22, 2022, 08:05:30 PM
I have the week off from work so I'd like to progress a good bit in these updates. Expect several releases. Probably. Another one:

Morrigan:
- Aimed for more of a Darkstalkers feel
- May have made her too strong :8):
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on March 22, 2022, 08:16:32 PM
Ooooooh, I love the new things. Have you considered adding Harmonious Spear to her moves? That move from MvC:I?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: beterhans on March 23, 2022, 03:01:38 AM
Hello

Morrigan version

.Air Darkness Illusion:    D, DF, F, D, DF, F, k (air)
can't hit air target but only ground target.

by the way

like the new FX :)
and the new aspect ratio.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: Toni on March 23, 2022, 01:40:00 PM
Sorry, I really don't want to add fuel to your update burnout, but here are some problems I found with the new Morrigan.

- Both versions of Darkness Illusion only work with the opponent on the ground. In the air, they just get knocked out of the rest of the attack:
https://streamable.com/mlalar
https://streamable.com/iez4a6

- Something isn't right with her directional buttons on side switch. For example, in this video, the only direction I hold is up+right, nothing else:
https://streamable.com/gat72e

And on a purely personal level, I preferred the curved projectile trajectories from the old version's Finishing Shower. There's nothing wrong with how it works now, I just think the old version looked nicer.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: PotS on March 23, 2022, 03:33:10 PM
Thanks again.

Ah. It was trying to input the jump after the hit as opposed to during it. I think it would be a good idea to increased the cancel window a bit to maybe a frame or so after the hitframes.
I think the input is already pretty lenient because you can simply hold up during the entire animation, kind of like MvC launchers.

Quote
Damn. I actually have the same thing happen to me at times.
Sometimes I even have the tendency to scratch something off my to-do list even though I didn't actually add or change it.  :confused:
If it's not on the list, it counts as done. :8):

Half the reason I posted these updates early was actually to keep myself accountable. What happened many years ago was that as soon as I'd get bored of updating my chars, I'd pack everything in my external HDD and leave it for a few years. It's harder to do that after I already told you I'm releasing them.

Ooooooh, I love the new things. Have you considered adding Harmonious Spear to her moves? That move from MvC:I?
I'd completely forgotten about that move, hehe. But it's actually pretty cool. It's not in my plans, but if I were making the char now I'd probably want it.

Hello

Morrigan version

.Air Darkness Illusion:    D, DF, F, D, DF, F, k (air)
can't hit air target but only ground target.
- Both versions of Darkness Illusion only work with the opponent on the ground. In the air, they just get knocked out of the rest of the attack:
https://streamable.com/mlalar
https://streamable.com/iez4a6
Completely unintentional. It's a bad interaction of the old system with the new one. Fixed.

Sorry, I really don't want to add fuel to your update burnout, but here are some problems I found with the new Morrigan.
I didn't really mean it like that. If anything, your feedback helps me finish sooner.

- Something isn't right with her directional buttons on side switch. For example, in this video, the only direction I hold is up+right, nothing else:
https://streamable.com/gat72e
I was hoping no one would notice. ;P It's already fixed.

And on a purely personal level, I preferred the curved projectile trajectories from the old version's Finishing Shower. There's nothing wrong with how it works now, I just think the old version looked nicer.
Yeah, I can see the pros of the old look. But I had a few good reasons to change it.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Morrigan added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on March 23, 2022, 04:05:05 PM
Ooooooh, I love the new things. Have you considered adding Harmonious Spear to her moves? That move from MvC:I?
I'd completely forgotten about that move, hehe. But it's actually pretty cool. It's not in my plans, but if I were making the char now I'd probably want it.
I like it too, it's great. I hope you consider it for a later update.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: PotS on March 24, 2022, 04:23:02 PM
Today I bring you Geese. This one is mostly a routine update.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: WF4123 on March 24, 2022, 05:05:09 PM
Dieyabo that is!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: Toni on March 24, 2022, 07:42:01 PM
Nice  :)

Edit:
I noticed that some of your characters will automatically do a second attack whenever one of the faster ones is parried.
Characters I noticed doing this include Ryu (far standing LP and crouching LP), Dan (both standing and crouching LP), Lei-Lei (both standing and crouching LP), Sakura (standing LP, crouching LK), Shin Gouki (standing close LP) and Vega (standing and crouching LP).

https://streamable.com/k5j5na

Also, not sure if it's that important, but with the exception of Morrigan, Sakura and Yuri, most of your revised characters can only low parry Pocket Shin Gouki's standing LP.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: PotS on March 25, 2022, 09:39:24 AM
I have to pay you a compliment because you tend to pick up things that are hard to notice. :)

But by the chars you mentioned, I'm guessing it's something I fixed around the time of Yuri's update. So everyone updated before her will have that happen.

That reminds me, I don't release updates for the same char every week because I don't want to bother people with downloading them so frequently, but if there's any issue that particularly bothers you, just tell me and I'll update them again.

As for the Pocket Shin Gouki interaction thing, that's just how it is, I guess. If you're wondering why, the parry code in my first chars only detected if the opponent was standing or crouching, so they had to parry PSG light punch standing. The "new" code detects exactly where the attack hits (like the source games), so since PSG is so short they can probably low parry 90% of his attacks.


Another thing, what would people want in a configuration file? I currently have this in mind:

- Use custom or screenpack system effects
- Use custom or screenpack system sounds
- Disable stun
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: BeastwithFriends on March 25, 2022, 02:54:59 PM
Hey, Pots. I just wanted to say, you've been giving me something small to look forward to about every week for the last few weeks. My feedback isn't super specific, and it's taking me a while to play through everyone. But here's some highlights. Sorry if these notes aren't relevant anymore.

I really love the "walking backward" floating animation for Bison/Vega. Is that a little nod to the Alpha series? I haven't played anything past Third Strike/Alpha 3/CVS 2 so I'm sure there's a ton of modern references that I'm missing. The animation really does add something unique to him in my opinion. I also like how his air stomp can hit grounded opponents. I don't remember if that was in the previous version. I've had a lot of fun trying to chase everyone on the ground with it. Anyways, this Bison is great, and a lot more fun to play with than the previous version. And that one was already a mainstay in my build! I thought you would add ex-moves with this version, but like you said, I'm not sure if he needs them. I thought I would miss them but I don't.

I love the update to Morrigan. I just got back into Mugen two years ago. I hadn't actually played using your previous Morrigan until then. This one is superior in every way. I'm glad you finished her. I think I've probably been hoping she would get finished since I started playing with the other version. Between your characters and Jmorphman's BB Hood, there's a really good influx of Pots-style chars that still feel like Darkstalkers lately.

Your new Sakura is incredibly smooth. I love everything you incorporated. I like how she can slam the breaks on when she dashes. I'm not sure if that was in the previous version. I do miss her Shunpuu Renkyaku on the ground. I think that was in the previous version, but I can't remember. I'm a big fan of Alpha 2 Sakura, and even with all of her additions, I think this is the most "Alpha 2" feeling Sakura that I've found. I think maybe it's her recovery roll that she has that makes me feel that way. This and bison might be my favorite that you've released.

Lei Lei is great too. At first, she took a second to get used to. I didn't like the yellow after images for her EX moves at first, because I had gotten used to the old version. But this version is awesome!

I love your Guy. Is there a reason he doesn't have wall jump? That's my favorite thing to do with Guy. I just kind a love hopping around for no reason like a ninja. Haha. Either way, I love these updates. I just wanted to share my appreciation.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: PeXXeR on March 25, 2022, 03:38:02 PM
I have to pay you a compliment because you tend to pick up things that are hard to notice. :)

But by the chars you mentioned, I'm guessing it's something I fixed around the time of Yuri's update. So everyone updated before her will have that happen.

That reminds me, I don't release updates for the same char every week because I don't want to bother people with downloading them so frequently, but if there's any issue that particularly bothers you, just tell me and I'll update them again.

As for the Pocket Shin Gouki interaction thing, that's just how it is, I guess. If you're wondering why, the parry code in my first chars only detected if the opponent was standing or crouching, so they had to parry PSG light punch standing. The "new" code detects exactly where the attack hits (like the source games), so since PSG is so short they can probably low parry 90% of his attacks.


Another thing, what would people want in a configuration file? I currently have this in mind:

- Use custom or screenpack system effects
- Use custom or screenpack system sounds
- Disable stun

A config file sounds good if its not to big of a hassle for you.

Can I just ask, are the chars in your links the most up to date ones or are you holding back on minor updates to release them later ?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: PotS on March 25, 2022, 03:44:53 PM
Hey, Pots. I just wanted to say, you've been giving me something small to look forward to about every week for the last few weeks. My feedback isn't super specific, and it's taking me a while to play through everyone. But here's some highlights. Sorry if these notes aren't relevant anymore.
Your feedback put a smile on my face. :) It's easy to forget that telling people what you like can be as useful as telling them what you don't like.

I really love the "walking backward" floating animation for Bison/Vega. Is that a little nod to the Alpha series?
It is 100% a nod to Alpha. He already had that animation in his Final Psycho Crusher, and I thought it could be used more.

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Your new Sakura is incredibly smooth. I love everything you incorporated. I like how she can slam the breaks on when she dashes. I'm not sure if that was in the previous version. I do miss her Shunpuu Renkyaku on the ground.
She still has Renkyaku. What I did is make the timing more strict and deliberate. In the old version you could do the input at any point during Shunpukyaku, but now you have to do it right before Sakura lands.

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I'm a big fan of Alpha 2 Sakura, and even with all of her additions, I think this is the most "Alpha 2" feeling Sakura that I've found. I think maybe it's her recovery roll that she has that makes me feel that way.
It could be because I made her velocities more accurate, or that she has her far reaching "close" hard punch from that game. Funny that you should say that because SFA2 is one of my favourite games to consult for gameplay.

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This and bison might be my favorite that you've released.
So you might be a good person to ask: should I make Bison's supers into charge moves? On the fence about it.

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I love your Guy. Is there a reason he doesn't have wall jump? That's my favorite thing to do with Guy. I just kind a love hopping around for no reason like a ninja. Haha.
He does have wall jump. Could you tell me which engine version did you use to test him? And maybe which stage?
Or maybe the issue is that you're trying to wall jump with F or B. I never liked that input for it, so my chars use UF or UB instead.

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Either way, I love these updates. I just wanted to share my appreciation.
Thanks. It means a lot to me. I know many people have already updated my chars in one way or another, but it's nice to see people can still appreciate the classics.

Can I just ask, are the chars in your links the most up to date ones or are you holding back on minor updates to release them later ?
The online versions are always going to be a bit behind because I update something (minor) almost every day, so keeping them up to date would be overkill right now.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: BeastwithFriends on March 25, 2022, 04:59:18 PM
Your feedback put a smile on my face. :) It's easy to forget that telling people what you like can be as useful as telling them what you don't like.

I'm glad!

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It is 100% a nod to Alpha. He already had that animation in his Final Psycho Crusher, and I thought it could be used more.
I just assumed it was a commissioned animation. That's really clever!

Quote
She still has Renkyaku. What I did is make the timing more strict and deliberate. In the old version you could do the input at any point during Shunpukyaku, but now you have to do it right before Sakura lands.

That's good to know! I'm glad it's still in there. I was missing it!

Quote

It could be because I made her velocities more accurate, or that she has her far reaching "close" hard punch from that game. Funny that you should say that because SFA2 is one of my favourite games to consult for gameplay.

Alpha 2 is one of my all-time favorite games. Every time I find a Mugen character that plays like Alpha 2, it makes me smile. There's not a lot of them out there...Or there's not as many as you would think. ...haha

Quote
So you might be a good person to ask: should I make Bison's supers into charge moves? On the fence about it.

I'm down for whatever. I do like the ease of being able to pull off two quarter circles to perform a super. What if you made a really OP final super where you had to learn some crazy charge commands.

I'm never good enough to pull off Akuma's raging demons or Rock's neo rave combos. For really intense top-shelf supers, I kind of don't mind never being able to do them. I just play with what I know even if that's limited. I kind of like having the basic supers be quarter circles, but that's just me.



Quote
He does have wall jump. Could you tell me which engine version did you use to test him? And maybe which stage?
Or maybe the issue is that you're trying to wall jump with F or B. I never liked that input for it, so my chars use UF or UB instead.

It must be how I'm trying to wall jump. I used the old version in Mugen 1.1 and now I'm using IKEMEN GO v .98.... I think it's just user error on my end. I switched to Adamskie's Guy because the wall jump was easier for me. I'll go back and test yours when I get some time!

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Thanks. It means a lot to me. I know many people have already updated my chars in one way or another, but it's nice to see people can still appreciate the classics.

I've been at home more over the last two years, because of quarantining and having to work from home. It was nice to stumble back into this hobby from high school and to see how much everything had grown. Everybody who has created something for Mugen or IKEMEN, I feel really thankful for. Everyone gave me something to occupy my mind for this period in my life. Also, my fighting game skills got a lot better. I went to a local Guilty Gear Strive casual play get together, and won a couple of matches easy...and I think it just came from having better fundamentals after playing through so many brutal MUGEN ai's!

Your work especially was fun to discover. At the time, every character felt like an optimized memory of the characters that I used to play. Like I was looking through rose-colored glasses remembering old games. Thanks again!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on March 25, 2022, 05:37:51 PM
Just downloaded your last four release updates. As expected they are S tier quality. But..

-The hit sound plays after Yuri's EX Saifa even when it doesn't connect.
-Poc Shin's super portriat is doesn't show all the way on zoom stages if you're zoomed out(which is prolly cuz zoom lol)

I also like that Geese laughs a little bit to himself when he completes Deadly Rave.  :8):
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: RagingRowen on March 25, 2022, 05:52:22 PM
Interesting to see you skip ahead to Geese, but if there wasn't much that needed to be done with him I guess it's understandable.

Here's my feedback:

- I think Raimei Gouha Nage could do with a throw miss voice for consistency.
- I might suggest making EX Reppuken shorter in terms of FX because I feel it's kinda misleading compared to the hitbox.
- Not really feedback, but The Sudden Rarity made a Double Shippuken voice for me a long time ago which can be used for EX Shippuken: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YppXRB88Ig24x1zEAKZXMTJEABDg-Rse/view?usp=sharing
- Might I suggest making the each hit of Jaeiken do the same damage instead of leaving the big damage til last? I'm not a fan of when specials or supers' cancellable hits deal minimal damage because I'd rather go straight for the next move if that's the case.
- Thunder Break's background flashing is cool but can be rather distracting. Might I suggest softening the flash?
- MAX Kyokuu Reppu Zan could do with added movement on the 3rd hit to make up for the lack of the longer range blast.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: PotS on March 25, 2022, 07:43:50 PM
I just assumed it was a commissioned animation. That's really clever!
Well, when I said he already had it, I meant I'd already made it. ;P

Just downloaded your last four release updates. As expected they are S tier quality. But..

-The hit sound plays after Yuri's EX Saifa even when it doesn't connect.
Fixed.

Quote
-Poc Shin's super portriat is doesn't show all the way on zoom stages if you're zoomed out(which is prolly cuz zoom lol)
I'm using Mugen 1.0, so I admittedly haven't tested them as much as I need to under 1.1. It sucks because I have to keep copying the chars from one folder to another (in Ikemen I can just point the select.def to Mugen 1.0's folder). Will look into that.

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I also like that Geese laughs a little bit to himself when he completes Deadly Rave.  :8):
Legendary voice actor.

- I think Raimei Gouha Nage could do with a throw miss voice for consistency.
You're right. But I think the reason I didn't add it was the animation would need more frames for it to make sense. Since it's a move you only use to OTG, I don't think it's a big deal.

Quote
- I might suggest making EX Reppuken shorter in terms of FX because I feel it's kinda misleading compared to the hitbox.
I'm afraid making it too short would stop being FF1's Reppuken. But you're right that it's a bit mismatched. I'll look for the sweet spot.

Quote
- Not really feedback, but The Sudden Rarity made a Double Shippuken voice for me a long time ago which can be used for EX Shippuken: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YppXRB88Ig24x1zEAKZXMTJEABDg-Rse/view?usp=sharing
Forbidden access over here.

Quote
- Might I suggest making the each hit of Jaeiken do the same damage instead of leaving the big damage til last? I'm not a fan of when specials or supers' cancellable hits deal minimal damage because I'd rather go straight for the next move if that's the case.
I know what you mean. But in this case I think it's balanced by the fact Jaeiken gives you a massive window to super cancel.

Quote
- Thunder Break's background flashing is cool but can be rather distracting. Might I suggest softening the flash?
Will try to.

Quote
- MAX Kyokuu Reppu Zan could do with added movement on the 3rd hit to make up for the lack of the longer range blast.
I actually went and compared screenshots, and the 3rd hit hits further than the Lv1 blast. It's misleading, I guess, hehe.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: RagingRowen on March 25, 2022, 07:53:46 PM
Forbidden access over here.
Fixed. Try again.

Quote
I know what you mean. But in this case I think it's balanced by the fact Jaeiken gives you a massive window to super cancel.
Well my argument there is that there aren't too many situations where you can cancel into it such has his Heavy's unless you use the LK version.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: TriggerPull on March 25, 2022, 09:09:35 PM
If you're going to make a config file for all characters, i feel that a system change should also be good (ex: changing Lei-Lei to be more based on darkstalkers like with your old version)

on a unrelated note, i guess people already pointed it out but i feel denjin hadouken is too nerfed for my tastes, not being unblockeable until full charge makes it hard to use in my opinion
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: NDSilva on March 25, 2022, 09:50:59 PM
Another thing, what would people want in a configuration file? I currently have this in mind:

- Use custom or screenpack system effects
- Use custom or screenpack system sounds
- Disable stun

Those are good options.

May I suggest adding "simplified" commands, as well? Or at least for the characters that have charge supers and the like;
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: PotS on March 25, 2022, 09:57:31 PM
Fixed. Try again.
Ah. He mixed two sounds. I tried the same thing back then but scratched it. Will give it another shot.

Quote
Well my argument there is that there aren't too many situations where you can cancel into it such has his Heavy's unless you use the LK version.
Yeah, but I think that was a bigger issue with the old damage scaling, because it punished you for super cancels. The new one doesn't.

If you're going to make a config file for all characters, i feel that a system change should also be good (ex: changing Lei-Lei to be more based on darkstalkers like with your old version)
I think that's too much of a change for a config file. Which is funny because at one point she did have a config file that did just that.

on a unrelated note, i guess people already pointed it out but i feel denjin hadouken is too nerfed for my tastes, not being unblockeable until full charge makes it hard to use in my opinion
Going back to the old version, I think it's funny that people never mentioned it because it's pretty broken. Every block string could be ended with an unblockable fireball.
I think the new version makes more sense, but of course we may disagree on that.

Those are good options.

May I suggest adding "simplified" commands, as well? Or at least for the characters that have charge supers and the like;
That sounds like too much work because of the current method I use for inputs. Sorry.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: JtheSaltyy on March 25, 2022, 10:13:33 PM
just adding an option to disable stun would be good, i think that toggling screenpack vs. system sounds and effects is too trivial to warrant it's own config.

your chars are very straightforward so there isn't really much to configure in the first place outside of some character-specific options, so i don't really have any suggestions in that regard.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Yuri and Pocket Shin Gouki added)
Post by: Kagami on March 29, 2022, 04:17:01 AM
I haven't changed that much compared to 2010. Let's see...

States, CMD, etc - Notepad++. Especially useful when you're updating 16 characters at a time
SFF - Fighter Factory Ultimate. Once in a while I remake them with Dark Saviour's SFF 2 Turbo Revival because during my formative years you couldn't trust FF with anything
SND - FFU
AIR - FFU, Notepad++
Palettes - Paint Shop Pro 7, Notepad++ and Paletero

Sprites - MSPaint, PSP7. PSP9 or Photoshop for effects although I've barely made any for these updates
Sounds - GoldWave
Game data - ArtMoney, FAQ's, wikis, guidebooks...


Some early updates for the weekend:

Guy
- Fixed the bugs Toni mentioned

Yuri
- Same as usual
- This character (and Nash) was a bit of a transition between my older and newer characters. Should feel less odd with this update

Pocket Shin Gouki
- Although I haven't spent as much time on him as on the other characters, ironically it may be the character that changed the most
- Plays more like Marvel now. System is a bit half baked though

wow

yeah, I haven't used Paint Shop Pro since the old days (back in mugendev forums?), but seeing how things are this days, I'm looking to maybe go back at it just for some weekend fun

nice to know we can still go at it the oldschool way, hahaha
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: extravagant on March 30, 2022, 07:21:26 AM
Hey PotS, question.

I definitely think that for charge characters, having the dodge AND the back roll mechanic truly interferes with a characters charge. For example, crouch charging and then rolling forward to do a psycho crusher is often interfered by the back roll. Or doing a roll fwd --> into flash kick needs extra steps.

Would you take into consideration that for some chars we can just turn off the back roll or the dodge mechanic for some charge chars?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: 地獄の花 on March 30, 2022, 10:33:14 AM
why? there's no move needed for you press A and X while performing charge attacks
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: PotS on March 30, 2022, 06:24:23 PM
just adding an option to disable stun would be good, i think that toggling screenpack vs. system sounds and effects is too trivial to warrant it's own config.
It's definitely not important, but it was already on my mind and I'm sure someone will appreciate it. But I'm only changing the hitsparks and superpause effects for now. And the sounds I'll leave for later (or never) because I can't be arsed to come up with the default equivalents for every sound.

Hey PotS, question.

I definitely think that for charge characters, having the dodge AND the back roll mechanic truly interferes with a characters charge. For example, crouch charging and then rolling forward to do a psycho crusher is often interfered by the back roll. Or doing a roll fwd --> into flash kick needs extra steps.

Would you take into consideration that for some chars we can just turn off the back roll or the dodge mechanic for some charge chars?
I see where you're coming from, and I remember someone pointing out the same thing back when I was making some char. But the more I think about it, the less important it seems. It's not like you keep your charge when doing other actions like jumping or dashing forward, and rolling charge is kind of like a hack. Bison's a bad example too because he doesn't need charge for a punish combo.

That said, recently I've come to appreciate the fact that Capcom just unceremoniously trashed SNK's back roll because it's not a very good mechanic.

As for the option to turn off mechanics, I really don't want to open that can of worms. Barring things like stun or guard crush that change the basic rules of Mugen, I think if you make the gameplay a certain way you should stick to it, or else why bother. Plus I label everything in my code, so you can just search for "roll" in the CMD and disable it.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: Lasombra Demon on March 31, 2022, 03:50:57 AM
A small question... Are you planning anything with the alternate spriteset for Morrigan made by Li Kun?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: extravagant on April 01, 2022, 11:17:20 PM
why? there's no move needed for you press A and X while performing charge attacks

Not sure where you're going with this, but you do know that a roll --> BFBF super is a legit strategy right? Think Roll Fwd --> Blanka Ball Super.... or Roll Fwd --> Super Psycho Crusher. These are legit techniques to gain distance and override someone's poke or even projectile (if it's a lvl 3)

In any case, having a back roll severely interferes with the simplicity of the process. I've yet to be able to easily do it, more often I have unintentionally did a back roll instead of doing a roll fwd --> lvl 3 BFBF super.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: PotS on April 02, 2022, 12:20:21 AM
A small question... Are you planning anything with the alternate spriteset for Morrigan made by Li Kun?
I think fixing up the DS sprites was so much work that I might just want to keep them forever.

In any case, having a back roll severely interferes with the simplicity of the process. I've yet to be able to easily do it, more often I have unintentionally did a back roll instead of doing a roll fwd --> lvl 3 BFBF super.
It's not your fault. No forward roll is long enough to regain your back charge. At one point this year I gave them charge partitioning, but that went away when I changed the way inputs are handled.

Updates got a little delayed this week because I realized the way I calculated vertical acceleration for juggling does not work as intended. This means I have to play around with the chars a bit to see if their main combos still work after this adjustment.
It's kind of funny that my guesstimate in my older chars was closer to being right than the way I did it in my last chars. :-X
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: extravagant on April 02, 2022, 01:24:13 AM
Ah no worries. In any case, I personally know how to do the manual disabling of the backroll anyway. I've turned it off for a few of them personally. Although, it's worth mentioning to the general public about this issue (just as a food for thought).

On a side note, going extremely off topic but, did you have your own forums a long time ago? I remember being registered on there, making posts. Although it was more small scale, like KFM's randomselect forum.

Oh yeah, while all eyes are own your normal char updates, I'm curious if you plan on doing some more fun/silly things too. Rare Akuma for instance. I remember "PotS by Ken" was an old time joke on here, lol. Or, the happy genki faced Akuma pic you had as an avatar for a good while. Good ole PotS memes haha. At least I thought it was funny. I'm curious if you have something up your sleeve in the future :D
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Geese added)
Post by: Toni on April 02, 2022, 03:34:47 AM
Found another small Dan bug: When you perform a Chouhatsu Densetsu during a Chouhatsu Shinwa (and the opponent doesn't interrupt), the Chouhatsu Shinwa music will keep playing even after Dan is done taunting.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: PotS on April 02, 2022, 06:47:54 PM
On a side note, going extremely off topic but, did you have your own forums a long time ago? I remember being registered on there, making posts. Although it was more small scale, like KFM's randomselect forum.
Yeah. You did not just dream that up, hehe. But it was just a tiny forum and more like the comment section for the site.

Quote
Oh yeah, while all eyes are own your normal char updates, I'm curious if you plan on doing some more fun/silly things too. Rare Akuma for instance. I remember "PotS by Ken" was an old time joke on here, lol. Or, the happy genki faced Akuma pic you had as an avatar for a good while. Good ole PotS memes haha. At least I thought it was funny. I'm curious if you have something up your sleeve in the future :D
Much like with serious chars, I don't know it either. I remember that avatar now that you mentioned it. Might have been while I was making Rare Akuma.

Found another small Dan bug: When you perform a Chouhatsu Densetsu during a Chouhatsu Shinwa (and the opponent doesn't interrupt), the Chouhatsu Shinwa music will keep playing even after Dan is done taunting.
It's not a big deal, but if it happened to me I'd have to F1 the char. :8): Thanks again.


I guess it's about time to update the chars again because I added the much requested config file, among other things. Regarding the juggling thing I mentioned, let me know if some combo you liked stopped working so I can check if it was intentional or not.

And I threw in Karin just because.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on April 02, 2022, 07:08:16 PM
A small question... Are you planning anything with the alternate spriteset for Morrigan made by Li Kun?
I think fixing up the DS sprites was so much work that I might just want to keep them forever.
I really don't wanna sound entitled, but I really hope you reconsider. Li Kun's sprites are absolutely awesome and combined with your gameplay, they'd make the perfect Morrigan.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: Cyborg Sun on April 02, 2022, 07:15:08 PM
I HAVE WAITED FOR CENTURIES TO REPORT THIS VERY IMPORTANT KARIN ERROR, ONE THAT HAS REMAINED IN HER FOR YEARS, AN ERROR SO HUMONGOUS THAT ALL HER OPPONENTS SHUDDER AT THE VERY THOUGHT OF IT...
.
.
.
.
.
...her first victory quote is "You're not supposed to see this!", which I think is a leftover from your bonus games. All her winquotes are just her Alpha 3 ones, and wouldn't you know it, the only missing one is "To defeat an opponent is to get to know them intimately...".
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: WF4123 on April 02, 2022, 07:31:37 PM
And I threw in Karin just because.

Ohohohohoho I get it. Noice.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: Toni on April 02, 2022, 10:44:11 PM
Nice Karin.

The ingame movelist has some errors, though. Her Kou'ou Ken super is listed as d,b,d.b+P instead of d,f,d,f+K and her lv2 doesn't show that it has to be performed in the air.

Edit: Also, I noticed that all dp-motions can also be done by inputting f,df,f (or just tapping down while holding forward the whole time). The same is true for rdp-motions. This applies to all of your updated characters. Is that intentional?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: PotS on April 03, 2022, 09:55:59 AM
I really don't wanna sound entitled, but I really hope you reconsider. Li Kun's sprites are absolutely awesome and combined with your gameplay, they'd make the perfect Morrigan.
I don't mind the comment. Although, aren't there are already Morrigan versions made with every combination of my old gameplay, new gameplay, old sprites and Li Kun sprites?

I HAVE WAITED FOR CENTURIES TO REPORT THIS VERY IMPORTANT KARIN ERROR, ONE THAT HAS REMAINED IN HER FOR YEARS, AN ERROR SO HUMONGOUS THAT ALL HER OPPONENTS SHUDDER AT THE VERY THOUGHT OF IT...
.
...her first victory quote is "You're not supposed to see this!", which I think is a leftover from your bonus games. All her winquotes are just her Alpha 3 ones, and wouldn't you know it, the only missing one is "To defeat an opponent is to get to know them intimately...".
Hmm... I somehow copied that Karin win quote to all my bonus games by mistake. :8):

Nice Karin.

The ingame movelist has some errors, though. Her Kou'ou Ken super is listed as d,b,d.b+P instead of d,f,d,f+K and her lv2 doesn't show that it has to be performed in the air.
Some of these movelist typos are so silly I even amaze myself. Thanks for pointing it out. I can't shake the feeling that some things may change in the movelists so I'm never very thorough with the proofreads.

Quote
Edit: Also, I noticed that all dp-motions can also be done by inputting f,df,f (or just tapping down while holding forward the whole time). The same is true for rdp-motions. This applies to all of your updated characters. Is that intentional?
Yeah, that one's intentional. I gave them some modern input shortcuts, and when you combine those with a keyboard some funny tricks can show up. At least I deliberately ommited some things like crouching Shoryuken.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: SNT on April 03, 2022, 01:56:12 PM
Karin looks hunky dory aside from her 270K having this weird looking interaction (https://imgur.com/VsLNiUB) with your Ryu, could be just CVS2 sprites not working well with Alpha.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: PeXXeR on April 03, 2022, 04:04:14 PM
Karin looks hunky dory aside from her 270K having this weird looking interaction (https://imgur.com/VsLNiUB) with your Ryu, could be just CVS2 sprites not working well with Alpha.

I've seen this with the new Karin but only when the AI does it, I tried replicating it using her and even watching the AI fight but its not happening.
It feels like its very random for me.

As for the rest of the updates.

Thank you for taking the time and adding a config  file for your chars.

Just tested the new Guy and wanted to ask, he can no longer cancel to the DF DF any punch hyper (Sorry bad with names) after the tatsu right ?
I can only cancel to the air grab hyper but not the other one.



Edit:
Update on the Karin thing, it looks like its an issue with how mugen handles char sizes, not Karin in general.
Not sure how much POTS can tweak this to be fair, though when it happened to me it happened vs Jman's Ken in arcade, later when I tried to replicate it vs him again it did not happen again.

Im assuming this is based on head pos or something for karin to hold the char.
(https://i.imgur.com/AAAHwAA.png)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: PotS on April 03, 2022, 06:22:32 PM
Karin looks hunky dory aside from her 270K having this weird looking interaction (https://imgur.com/VsLNiUB) with your Ryu, could be just CVS2 sprites not working well with Alpha.
Update on the Karin thing, it looks like its an issue with how mugen handles char sizes, not Karin in general.
Not sure how much POTS can tweak this to be fair, though when it happened to me it happened vs Jman's Ken in arcade, later when I tried to replicate it vs him again it did not happen again.
I didn't touch that animation, but I guess my reasoning back then was to make it a bit different from her kick throw. But I'll probably change it now that you mentioned it. The way it's done in the kick throw does look better.

Just tested the new Guy and wanted to ask, he can no longer cancel to the DF DF any punch hyper (Sorry bad with names) after the tatsu right ?
I can only cancel to the air grab hyper but not the other one.
Yeah. Because he now has an actual air super, I took away the ability to do that super from tatsu. In fact I've been taking away several of his combos because he had too many that were just a little too braindead. But I generally add new ones in their place.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: GreenZed on April 04, 2022, 08:41:35 PM
Not really gameplay related, but once you get to Cammy, I would suggest changing her voice to something newer then CVS2 and SFA, preferably SF4 (like Jmorphman did with his Guile). You can always keep the old ones as a bonus (like Jmorphman did).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: PotS on April 04, 2022, 09:57:00 PM
Yeah but CvS2 Guile had a particularly bad (yet memorable) case of bad English. The voice on my Cammy is mostly from the Marvel series, with a native speaker acting her, and I kind of like it. It also reinforces the idea that it's the Shadaloo Cammy and not the later one.

@extravagant: I was playing around and noticed that the inputs in my chars are actually lenient enough to pull off forward roll into charged super consistently, if that still matters. Just do (charge) B, F+a+x, B, F, punch/kick. Not as easy as with the back roll disabled, though, of course.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: Jmorphman on April 04, 2022, 09:57:24 PM
Not really gameplay related, but once you get to Cammy, I would suggest changing her voice to something newer then CVS2 and SFA, preferably SF4 (like Jmorphman did with his Guile). You can always keep the old ones as a bonus (like Jmorphman did).
To be clear, that's not exactly an accurate assessment of my Guile. Not only is the SFIV voicepack not the default, but it also wasn't even made by me. The SFIV voice is the bonus, not the older ones.

I picked one of the oldest Guile voice sets (Alpha 3) as the default because I liked it the most. I also made a CvS2 soundpack as an option because the siren call of the gratuitous Engrish was too much for me to resist. Someone else made the SFIV soundpack and I included it inside the character as an option because why not.

In the case of Cammy: this version of Cammy is specifically Killer Bee, and I do not think it makes sense to use voices from the Delta Red incarnation at all. It would also be pretty weird to use pre-SFIV voices for every character except Cammy.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: GreenZed on April 05, 2022, 12:10:54 AM
To be clear, that's not exactly an accurate assessment of my Guile. Not only is the SFIV voicepack not the default, but it also wasn't even made by me. The SFIV voice is the bonus, not the older ones.

My bad, when I heard Guile's voice and noticed, that it wasn't from CVS2, I jumped to the conclusion that it must've been from SF4.

Anyhow, I guess SF4 voicepack for Cammy as a bonus would've been nice. Yes, I am aware, that there's one already made, but I don't know, it it's going to be compaitable after an update and having it prepackaged (given permission) would be good, incase the link will die (it's from 2009!).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: SNT on April 05, 2022, 12:33:41 AM
Someone else made the SFIV soundpack and I included it inside the character as an option because why not.
I think it was me..? I know I'd ripped the voice files for SFIV, and I'd converted a couple of characters' worth, just can't remember if Guile was one of them. I know for sure I'd done Cammy for PotS.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: Jmorphman on April 05, 2022, 05:07:52 AM
The readme says it was Froz, but even if you held a gun to my head I wouldn't have been able to remember at all on my own.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: SNT on April 05, 2022, 08:56:23 AM
Froz rings a bell. I know a couple other people helped with the ripping, and I certainly wasn't the only one who made a soundpack from them.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: 地獄の花 on April 05, 2022, 10:18:05 AM
what happened to froz anyway , he just disappeared.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: xp41 on April 06, 2022, 11:53:40 AM
It me again, the grab-stickler; wanna point out Karin's Abise Yashiro Kuzushi air throw only tosses her opponent in front of her. The side-switching version is missing.

I dunno if this joke will get old real fast with everyone else, but would you consider looping Karin's haughty laugh if the player holds the taunt button? Because imma tell you right now, I'm gonna abuse the hell out of that lol

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: PotS on April 06, 2022, 06:41:18 PM
It me again, the grab-stickler; wanna point out Karin's Abise Yashiro Kuzushi air throw only tosses her opponent in front of her. The side-switching version is missing.
Ah, so that was why my old self allowed that throw to be performed with either punches or kicks. In SFA3 punches throw in front, and kicks throw behind, but now I messed it up. Will fix it.

Quote
I dunno if this joke will get old real fast with everyone else, but would you consider looping Karin's haughty laugh if the player holds the taunt button? Because imma tell you right now, I'm gonna abuse the hell out of that lol
Even thinking about it is annoying. ;D
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: WF4123 on April 06, 2022, 07:19:35 PM
Quote
I dunno if this joke will get old real fast with everyone else, but would you consider looping Karin's haughty laugh if the player holds the taunt button? Because imma tell you right now, I'm gonna abuse the hell out of that lol
Even thinking about it is annoying. ;D

Oh I know about it. I just made a demonstration for some example.  :mlol: https://streamable.com/sudml4
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Karin added)
Post by: PeXXeR on April 07, 2022, 02:34:10 AM
Not sure if intentional but I noticed that sometimes when Sakura does her EX air tatsu she uses her intro sound bite.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PotS on April 09, 2022, 03:12:22 PM
It was supposed to work the same as the non-EX version, but I made a typo in the sound code. Thanks for pointing it out.

Added Nash to the updates folder. Like Yuri this char felt a bit weird. Should be better now.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: WF4123 on April 09, 2022, 04:02:58 PM
Added Nash to the updates folder. Like Yuri this char felt a bit weird. Should be better now.

Cool, I guess.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: Trololo on April 09, 2022, 05:06:23 PM
TBH, I did find a thing for that small time of playing around with him I had.
-"FInal Mission" doesn't trigger Super K.O. effect.
I'll try to see him more in-depth later. Keep going!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PotS on April 09, 2022, 05:36:20 PM
Cool, I guess.
iñigomontoya.jpeg

TBH, I did find a thing for that small time of playing around with him I had.
-"FInal Mission" doesn't trigger Super K.O. effect.
I'll try to see him more in-depth later. Keep going!
Seems like that one goes as far back as the 2010 version. Fixed. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PeXXeR on April 09, 2022, 08:48:48 PM
Added Nash to the updates folder. Like Yuri this char felt a bit weird. Should be better now.

Cool, I guess.

Man, whats with your posts being all weird and shit ? are you doing this on purpose to annoy people ?


As for the Nash update, damn he feels great.

Again not sure if intentional but shadow Nash cant use the flash kick and uses the easy CMD as a default.
Scratch that, Im stupid.

Im so happy someone actually used that running animation for him, yeah I know its Guile but it makes sense as Nash thought Guile everything he knows.
Even makes fun of him needing two hands to do the sonic boom.

One thing I have wanted to ask you though, when you have an OP in the corner and I super jump with one of your chars, it pushes the OP out of the corner.

Can I ask you, as it has been a long time since I've played the source games, was is like that in CVS/KOF ?


Edit:

I just started messing around with Morrigan as well.

I really dig the updates, however there is something i dunno if its on my end but her inputs are a bit weird.
When I do a keyboard shortcut lets say FWD DWN and Back and I press 2 punch buttons I get her EX dragon punch and it comes out everytime like that not mashing or anything just a smooth press.

Ryu and Dan are also the same, I have not tested the rest though.


May I also suggest moving the super pause orb on one of her fists ?
It just looks weird down there.
(https://i.imgur.com/4ORvNDO.png)

Thanks for the updates.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PotS on April 10, 2022, 10:58:08 AM
One thing I have wanted to ask you though, when you have an OP in the corner and I super jump with one of your chars, it pushes the OP out of the corner.

Can I ask you, as it has been a long time since I've played the source games, was is like that in CVS/KOF ?
In SF4 you could crossup in the corners, which is still pretty unusual. I thought it'd be fun to give that ability to high jumps so they have more practical applications.
However I'm not married to the idea or anything. It's one of those experiments I like to make.

Quote
I really dig the updates, however there is something i dunno if its on my end but her inputs are a bit weird.
When I do a keyboard shortcut lets say FWD DWN and Back and I press 2 punch buttons I get her EX dragon punch and it comes out everytime like that not mashing or anything just a smooth press.

Ryu and Dan are also the same, I have not tested the rest though.
Are you using Ikemen? I added some modern shortcuts to DP motions, but there's an issue with Ikemen's input processing that breaks them.
Since those shortcuts have little benefit in Mugen and a negative impact in Ikemen, I will probably remove them.

Quote
May I also suggest moving the super pause orb on one of her fists ?
It just looks weird down there.
It looks misaligned at first glance, but if you look carefully at her DP animation you'll see that she's turning her wings into a blade, hence placing it on her wings.

Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: Toni on April 11, 2022, 12:27:29 AM
Looks like a pretty good update for Nash, for the most part, even if I still have to get used to some of the changes.

However, I'm not a fan of not being able to have uf as the final direction for the Reversed Somersault super, as Crossfire Blitz will then come out instead (fortunately, their lv2 versions don't suffer from the same problem).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on April 11, 2022, 02:48:55 AM
Found a little bug on Morrigan:



I don't know if this happens with other characters, but it seems that when the enemy is under a certain amount of health, instead of keeping the enemy with like 1 HP so that the finishing blow ends it, Darkness Illusion (both versions) keep them with more health and the finishing blow doesn't manage to bring their health to 0.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PRØJECT.13 on April 11, 2022, 07:45:43 PM
I really only play Shadow, but he's super fun with this update. I do have things to mention in terms of feedback, but nothing game-breaking that I've discovered, and also a few suggestions, if that's alright:

- Sonic Break and the projectile shell from Moonsault Strike don't trigger a Super KO effect.
- The second to last hit of MAX Crossfire Blitz should be a punch sound effect rather than a kick, since it's a shoulder check.
- The input timing for Moonsault Strike feels weird to try and input raw. Getting it from Reverse Somersault is fairly simple, but doing it on it's own feels near impossible.
   - Suggestion 1: I also feel like you should be able to cancel Moonsault Strike from Somersault Shell.
- Suggestion 2: Would you be willing to give Shadow a special winpose if he KOs the opponent with Final Mission? Nothing super intricate, was just thinking either he holds the pose instead of going back to his idle animation, or Shadow Warps off-screen like his match end winpose.

Enjoying him very much, can't wait to see what you do with everyone else down the line, too!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PotS on April 11, 2022, 09:17:26 PM
Good stuff. Thanks.

Looks like a pretty good update for Nash, for the most part, even if I still have to get used to some of the changes.

However, I'm not a fan of not being able to have uf as the final direction for the Reversed Somersault super, as Crossfire Blitz will then come out instead (fortunately, their lv2 versions don't suffer from the same problem).
We probably have a different technique to do that motion because I hadn't noticed. But sure enough I'd given Blitz more input priority than Somersault, when it should be the other way around (Lv2 versions are correct as you figured). Fixed.

Found a little bug on Morrigan:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5bOo3ydeAE[/youtube]

I don't know if this happens with other characters, but it seems that when the enemy is under a certain amount of health, instead of keeping the enemy with like 1 HP so that the finishing blow ends it, Darkness Illusion (both versions) keep them with more health and the finishing blow doesn't manage to bring their health to 0.
This bug's really weird. It seems like Mugen doesn't like it if you hit someone with two simultaneous Hitdefs containing the flag "kill = 0". I fixed it but am not really sure why it happened or why it's fixed now. :S

I really only play Shadow, but he's super fun with this update.
On that note I think I'll nerf his health even further. The chargeless booms are pretty crazy. :laugh:

Quote
- Sonic Break and the projectile shell from Moonsault Strike don't trigger a Super KO effect.
Fixed.

Quote
- The second to last hit of MAX Crossfire Blitz should be a punch sound effect rather than a kick, since it's a shoulder check.
That's a bit of a gray area. The punch sound feels a bit too sharp there to me, if it makes sense. I changed it like you said anyway.

Quote
- The input timing for Moonsault Strike feels weird to try and input raw. Getting it from Reverse Somersault is fairly simple, but doing it on it's own feels near impossible.
You might be doing it too low to the ground. It has height restrictions unlike the special version.

Quote
- Suggestion 1: I also feel like you should be able to cancel Moonsault Strike from Somersault Shell.
I had it like that at one point but changed my mind because it just felt too easy. On the flip side the fact Reverse Somersault can do that makes it scarier.

Quote
- Suggestion 2: Would you be willing to give Shadow a special winpose if he KOs the opponent with Final Mission? Nothing super intricate, was just thinking either he holds the pose instead of going back to his idle animation, or Shadow Warps off-screen like his match end winpose.
I'll see how the first one looks.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: RagingRowen on April 11, 2022, 09:31:34 PM
I don't have complaints about him, but I think the crunchy voice samples are a bit jarring.

There are better quality versions of them in SFA3's PSP version found here if you're interested: https://www.sounds-resource.com/psp/streetfighteralpha3max/sound/12512/
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on April 11, 2022, 10:04:58 PM
Found a little bug on Morrigan:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5bOo3ydeAE[/youtube]

I don't know if this happens with other characters, but it seems that when the enemy is under a certain amount of health, instead of keeping the enemy with like 1 HP so that the finishing blow ends it, Darkness Illusion (both versions) keep them with more health and the finishing blow doesn't manage to bring their health to 0.
This bug's really weird. It seems like Mugen doesn't like it if you hit someone with two simultaneous Hitdefs containing the flag "kill = 0". I fixed it but am not really sure why it happened or why it's fixed now. :S
lol, weird bugs always come out of nowhere, even when I played the character before, it took a while before I got this to happen, ruined some of my recordings, but it was kinda good, 'cause I found out I need to adjust OBS better. When is the fix coming, though? I downloaded her again and the bug is still there.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PotS on April 11, 2022, 10:21:04 PM
I don't have complaints about him, but I think the crunchy voice samples are a bit jarring.

There are better quality versions of them in SFA3's PSP version found here if you're interested: https://www.sounds-resource.com/psp/streetfighteralpha3max/sound/12512/
I'm having a hard time telling the difference between these, the ones in the char and SFA Anthology rips. Maybe the jarring ones are those from the Marvel series since I added them for variety (or was it SFA2? It's been a while). I'll try some filters on them.

When is the fix coming, though? I downloaded her again and the bug is still there.
Oh, sorry. When I say "fixed" I just mean the version I have. Maybe this weekend, I don't know.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: pating on April 12, 2022, 12:59:28 PM
I guess it is better to give Shadow a five hits Shadow Break than four and let his Sonic Boom and Somersault Shell has purple flame effects like in the MSHvsSF. :)

Btw. does Shadow doesn't have the ability to roll like Nash? "f+X+A or f+X+A"?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PotS on April 15, 2022, 03:04:00 PM
I guess it is better to give Shadow a five hits Shadow Break than four and let his Sonic Boom and Somersault Shell has purple flame effects like in the MSHvsSF. :)
The five hits Sonic Break doesn't look that good since he just recycles the animation, but the flames aren't a bad idea. I may add them to a couple super moves.

Quote
Btw. does Shadow doesn't have the ability to roll like Nash? "f+X+A or f+X+A"?
He does. :???:

Uploaded small updates for Morrigan, Vega, Nash and Karin.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on April 15, 2022, 04:05:04 PM
Yeah!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PeXXeR on April 15, 2022, 05:13:58 PM
Sorry for the late replay Pots.

Just tested morrigan and the inputs for DP are fine now. The rest of the cast prior to the update ofc are all affected though cause I had the time to test all of em during the week.

Im using mugen 1.1
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PotS on April 15, 2022, 08:06:38 PM
It's odd that you get that issue in 1.1 since I've only seen it in Ikemen. But ask and you shall receive. All characters updated to fix that issue. No need to redownload them unless you experienced funny things with the inputs.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PeXXeR on April 15, 2022, 09:56:02 PM
The moment you update the chars I download them if im available.

Thank you for the update Pots, I will test and report if there is anything funny.

Edit: am I moving mad or Lei-lei was throwing 3 balls before ?
Now she just throws one that hits 3 times, this is intentional right ?
(https://i.imgur.com/ecQJP0n.png)

Edit:

One more thing, on Ryu, not sure if you intended for this to connect but the last hit of the super hadouken does not connect after the following.
This maybe a hitbox thing, or maybe my execution is horrible.


If I use a hyper because of the super pause the last hit will connect even if the projectile and OP are far away.

I also managed to get the OP stuck using cody but I cant replicate it for the life of me.
When doing the chain combo, you can throw the OP mid combo I guess, while doing that I was mashing buttons and got the OP stuck somehow next to cody's legs but the OP unfroze after a time period right before i was able to capture it.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: Toni on April 16, 2022, 12:11:09 AM
Ah, I was looking forward to this update and it didn't disappoint. Very nice.

Still, something must have gone wrong with Pocket Shin Gouki, as charging power summons temporary floating clones: https://streamable.com/e4i7mk
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: JuniT on April 16, 2022, 12:19:21 AM
I don't know where to post it, but i would like to thank you POTS, for releasing the Deserted Chateau stage. It's really gorgeous, thank you so much, I think that version was never been converted for mugen.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PotS on April 16, 2022, 09:36:59 AM
Edit: am I moving mad or Lei-lei was throwing 3 balls before ?
Now she just throws one that hits 3 times, this is intentional right ?
You're not crazy hehe. She throws 3 in the original games, but because she takes 200 years to finish the animation and they don't even combo, it's one of the worst moves in the game. The way it was in my previous version was stronger than the original, but still bad. So I made it simple.

Quote
One more thing, on Ryu, not sure if you intended for this to connect but the last hit of the super hadouken does not connect after the following.
This maybe a hitbox thing, or maybe my execution is horrible.
This is intentional. What's happening here is that Shinkuu Hadouken has a juggle potential of 5 and you'd already spent 1 point with Tatsumaki, so it only does 4 hits. If you did that combo with Joudan Sokutou Geri instead it'd do 5 hits because in my chars a super cancel sets juggle points back to 0.
If you activate the debug menu you can see the juggle points.

The funny thing is that combo you posted wasn't even meant to work, but because most Mugen chars fall below the ground before actually hitting it (legacy from DOS Mugen), you have a few extra frames to land it and it works.

Quote
If I use a hyper because of the super pause the last hit will connect even if the projectile and OP are far away.
It's because of that super cancel rule I mentioned.

Quote
I also managed to get the OP stuck using cody but I cant replicate it for the life of me.
When doing the chain combo, you can throw the OP mid combo I guess, while doing that I was mashing buttons and got the OP stuck somehow next to cody's legs but the OP unfroze after a time period right before i was able to capture it.
You mean Guy? I had a look and what may have happened was that you cancelled the throw just as it begun. I allowed that by mistake, so thanks for noticing.

Ah, I was looking forward to this update and it didn't disappoint. Very nice.

Still, something must have gone wrong with Pocket Shin Gouki, as charging power summons temporary floating clones: https://streamable.com/e4i7mk
Already fixed and reuploaded. Sorry about that.

I don't know where to post it, but i would like to thank you POTS, for releasing the Deserted Chateau stage. It's really gorgeous, thank you so much, I think that version was never been converted for mugen.
Thanks. I'm sure it'd already been converted. If nothing else, my version makes it easier to find. ;P
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nash added)
Post by: PeXXeR on April 16, 2022, 03:34:30 PM
Yes I ment Guy, my bad.

I see about the combo, that makes sense.

As for the throw, yeah im sure I canceled it somehow.

Awesome, thank you for the updates.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: PotS on April 16, 2022, 05:41:50 PM
No problem. I'll keep posting them as long as people find something wrong with them.

Added Nakoruru. Should've probably done this one sooner because she had several compatibility issues in Mugen 1.1.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: Ralaco on April 16, 2022, 06:41:13 PM
No problem. I'll keep posting them as long as people find something wrong with them.

Added Nakoruru. Should've probably done this one sooner because she had several compatibility issues in Mugen 1.1.
New member here, long-time lurker. I will definitely test her when i get the chance.


I wanted to post two issues with Guy. Please see the below video.

Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: WF4123 on April 16, 2022, 07:08:42 PM
I wanted to post two issues with Guy. Please see the below video.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/wRR8yByjnJw[/youtube]

At 0:05 of timestamp, I never seen that thing happened before it was a bug or just a glitch. And apparently Cody cannot wake up when it was a issue.
At 0:15 of timestamp, Guy goes to the void while he is the ghost on bottom.

And that's all of conclusion how it happened to Guy with such of measurement issues.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: PeXXeR on April 16, 2022, 07:14:36 PM
No problem. I'll keep posting them as long as people find something wrong with them.

Added Nakoruru. Should've probably done this one sooner because she had several compatibility issues in Mugen 1.1.
New member here, long-time lurker. I will definitely test her when i get the chance.


I wanted to post two issues with Guy. Please see the below video.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/wRR8yByjnJw[/youtube]

I sat today and fought his ai for 30 minutes using debug and none of this happened to me, jeez.
What Cody is that ?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: PotS on April 16, 2022, 08:17:59 PM
I wanted to post two issues with Guy. Please see the below video.
Thanks for registering to comment. :)

The first one I think is what PeXXeR meant a few posts above and was fixed recently.

The second one was briefly in one of the previous versions. I think I uploaded it, noticed the bug and reuploaded soon after. You were probably too fast to download it, hehe.

Try redownloading and see if any of them still happen.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: 地獄の花 on April 17, 2022, 07:48:42 AM
solid character but can we have a volume control on that bird?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: WF4123 on April 17, 2022, 08:44:21 AM
solid character but can we have a volume control on that bird?

In IKEMEN, we have.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: Toni on April 17, 2022, 04:27:45 PM
Nice. New updates.  :)

Found some more things:

- Pocket Shin Gouki: When you switch sides at the beginning of his Ashura Senkuu (any version), Gouki will warp towards the wrong direction. (Regular Shin Gouki doesn't seem to have this problem, or at least I didn't encounter it yet).

- Morrigan: I don't know what causes this, but sometimes, her grounded Darkness Illusion will cause a KO before the last hit: https://streamable.com/8vcva5
At least it's just cosmetic.

- Nakoruru: Just a minor thing about her in-game movelist: Her Kamui Fumu Kesupu (aerial d+HK) doesn't show that it has to be performed in the air.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: YugaCurry on April 17, 2022, 05:20:12 PM
Added Nakoruru.

Curious as to why you didn't use her CS'ed sprites unless you weren't aware of their existence.

https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/niaru-cs-patches-nakoruru-pots-released--176357.0.html
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: PotS on April 17, 2022, 07:28:22 PM
solid character but can we have a volume control on that bird?
I'll lower it a bit more. It's annoying when you're practicing (don't use her as a dummy!) but in a match it's not that bad.

- Pocket Shin Gouki: When you switch sides at the beginning of his Ashura Senkuu (any version), Gouki will warp towards the wrong direction. (Regular Shin Gouki doesn't seem to have this problem, or at least I didn't encounter it yet).
They should both have that problem because the direction code is about the same. But I'm not sure it can or has to be solved. When you switch sides your F inputs suddenly become B and vice-versa. With Shoryuken for instance the move just won't come out, but with Ashura Senkuu you'll do it backwards. I just checked and the same thing happens in SFA3.

Quote
- Morrigan: I don't know what causes this, but sometimes, her grounded Darkness Illusion will cause a KO before the last hit: https://streamable.com/8vcva5
At least it's just cosmetic.
Took me a bit to figure out what was happening, but in the end I was able to improve a piece of code in all of my (older) chars. Thanks for pointing it out.

Quote
- Nakoruru: Just a minor thing about her in-game movelist: Her Kamui Fumu Kesupu (aerial d+HK) doesn't show that it has to be performed in the air.
That's not as bad as usual at least. ;P

Curious as to why you didn't use her CS'ed sprites unless you weren't aware of their existence.
I didn't know it existed since I'm mostly oblivious to about 12 years of Mugen content. But to be honest I don't like working with sprites that are separated to that extent. Which is funny when you think about it.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: Toni on April 17, 2022, 08:00:54 PM
The problem with Pocket Gouki's Ashura Senkuu isn't an input problem, though, as by the time the side switch happens, the input is already done.
No, the problem is that, when the sides switch while Gouki is "charging" his warp, Gouki will turn around to face his opponent before doing the actual warp, resulting him to go in the wrong direction.

So, in this case for example, I performed a forward warp, then the characters switch sides while Gouki is charging. Frame by frame (or just by watching the after images), you can see him turn around before moving on to the actual warp part of the move: https://streamable.com/2n8j2f

Now, it's been a while since I've played SFA3, so maybe it was like that there, too. Still can't say it doesn't feel weird every time it happens.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: PotS on April 17, 2022, 08:21:37 PM
Ah, I see exactly what you mean now. Sorry. It's fixed. :) Also fixed the fact Gouki can be pushed at the start of the move.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: DW on April 18, 2022, 03:43:56 AM
Thanks for the config added to remove stun. Not the biggest fan of that mechanic, so I very much appreciate you including the option of removing it. I just got Yuri and was playing turns mode; she gains controls when she lands from hopping in before the round starts.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: PotS on April 18, 2022, 04:57:02 PM
Thanks for pointing that out. It's not happening in the version I have, but I think it's because of something I removed.

That bug is actually more interesting than a forgotten ctrl = 1. :XD: My characters changed to state 50 when they were in state 0 but not in Pos Y 0, to prevent bugs. Turns out that the turns intro did not set them to Pos 0, so at the end of it I guess they went to state 50 and gained ctrl early. I had just removed that changestate because I think it will cause issues with interactive stages in Ikemen.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: 地獄の花 on April 18, 2022, 10:59:29 PM
solid character but can we have a volume control on that bird?

In IKEMEN, we have.

i never tried ikemen , i heard it's a hassle to setup
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: Toni on April 20, 2022, 11:01:42 PM
When Pocket Gouki guards during a back jump, he can fall through the ground: https://streamable.com/ty42kt
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: PotS on April 23, 2022, 10:38:40 AM
Thanks again. It's because of the custom jump physics. I found other unrelated bugs as well, so today he gets a new update.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Nakoruru added)
Post by: Prime SC on April 24, 2022, 04:44:04 AM
Wow I can't believe the man himself his back. I hope you realize how much you've kept this community alive with your style. Its literally the best in mugen. I myself have made some characters in a pseudo style like yours but a bit more loose. Its really crazy that your back wow
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on April 24, 2022, 05:18:24 PM
Thanks. I'm sure many people would disagree but I'll take the compliment. ;D

A few updates today:

Morrigan
- Toni sent me some win poses he sprited, so this update is pretty much to include them

Nash
- Made Shadow mode a bit crazier

Cammy
- The updates have slowed down lately, so I'm just sharing it now instead of keeping it to myself. Nothing drastic, like Geese's update

Honda
- Same thing as Cammy

With that I think all the main characters are updated, so I'm moving this to the release section. I'd still very much like to hear your feedback, though.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PeXXeR on April 24, 2022, 06:16:04 PM
Thank you for the updates POTS.

Noticed something with the inputs again.

Lets say with Cammy, I jump in with an HK and im holding fwd to hit a close standing HP and then press the command for her EX drill the ground one not the DP, I will always get the DP.

With Dan, if I jump in HK then to a close HP and then try to do an EX tatsu I will always get his hyper where he bounces the OP from the wall if I have bar ofc.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: Tiger-Boy on April 24, 2022, 07:03:43 PM
Wow I can't believe the man himself his back. I hope you realize how much you've kept this community alive with your style. Its literally the best in mugen.

I second this. Thank you for your work, and recent updates.  :bjugoi:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on April 24, 2022, 08:14:57 PM
Thank you for the updates POTS.

Noticed something with the inputs again.

Lets say with Cammy, I jump in with an HK and im holding fwd to hit a close standing HP and then press the command for her EX drill the ground one not the DP, I will always get the DP.
This is because DP's in general always have more priority that QCF inputs. The more complex an input is, the more it will override simpler inputs.

Quote
With Dan, if I jump in HK then to a close HP and then try to do an EX tatsu I will always get his hyper where he bounces the OP from the wall if I have bar ofc.
This one I can't recreate. Unless you mean also holding forward before the EX tatsu.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PeXXeR on April 24, 2022, 08:30:16 PM
Thank you for the updates POTS.

Noticed something with the inputs again.

Lets say with Cammy, I jump in with an HK and im holding fwd to hit a close standing HP and then press the command for her EX drill the ground one not the DP, I will always get the DP.
This is because DP's in general always have more priority that QCF inputs. The more complex an input is, the more it will override simpler inputs.

Quote
With Dan, if I jump in HK then to a close HP and then try to do an EX tatsu I will always get his hyper where he bounces the OP from the wall if I have bar ofc.
This one I can't recreate. Unless you mean also holding forward before the EX tatsu.

For both cases I am holding fwd all the time, while I understand its not a fair comparison, Capom and SNK fighters don't have issues like that when it comes to using a keyboard. SNK even has the keyboard shortcuts, I think Capcom too but its been a bit since I played a proper PC Capcom release.

I decided to check on some Vans, Divine Wolf, Jmorphman chars to see if they have any issues like that and I was able to link with no issues.
Yes I know they use a different way to detected inputs but I wanted a mugen example just so im sure I am not moving mad.

As for Dan, even if I let go of FWD he still does it, lets say close HP to EX tatsu I still get his hyper the moment I let go of fwd and punch and input the ex tatsu, even if I am not holding fwd I still get it.

I hope this makes sense, if not I can try to record my inputs using one of them on-screen keyboards.




EDIT:
Strangely enough, your Morrigan does not have the Dan issue.
However, Dan's hyper the way I do it on KB is fwd,down,back.
Morrigan is just down back and kicks.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on April 24, 2022, 08:44:21 PM
I see. I think I've figured out what you mean. Sorry but I think you got used to doing it wrong. :XD:

I ran some quick tests in SFA3, CvS2 and KOF2002 (since you brought up Vans), and if you do the type of combo you mentioned in those games you'll always get the DP. This also seems to be the case with Vans's chars, but with Explodsive you'll get the QCF oddly enough.

You can drop the jump-in and just do hold forward and cancel a normal into a QCF special to test this more reliably.

However, Dan's hyper the way I do it on KB is fwd,down,back.
Morrigan is just down back and kicks.
Yeah as for the Dan example it's because my chars accept simply "F, D, B" as half circles. I can either make half circles harder to do, which would do more harm than good, or change the input for that super (any suggestion?).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PeXXeR on April 24, 2022, 09:07:16 PM
Ah I see, I have all these games on steam or mame or whatever but was to lazy to test and im going of memory.
Thanks for letting me know about the DP.

Ill grab the steam version of KOF 2002UM to confirm if I get the same thing as well.

If its okay with you for the Dan hyper, instead of removing the shortcuts I would just move the hyper to a down back normal motion.
I think that will resolve it.


Edit: Just tested KOF2K2UM on PC and yeah, you are correct about the DP, I tested using Benimaru cause he has his DP on the legs but also has that DF Knee thing.

If I hold FWD I get the DP, if I dont hold FWD I get the knee.

Testing Jman's Beni, I will always get the knee, if I wanted the DP, I have to do the full command.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on April 24, 2022, 09:37:18 PM
If its okay with you for the Dan hyper, instead of removing the shortcuts I would just move the hyper to a down back normal motion.
I think that will resolve it.
The normal motions are a bit crowded. I think I'll make it HCF or the OG Hien Shippukyaku DB, F. Now that you mention it, this type of conflict is why I changed the input for Morrigan's Valkyrie Turn. Thanks again for bringing it up.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: Momotaro on April 24, 2022, 10:31:00 PM
I'm glad to see updates on such classic characters :)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: RagingRowen on April 24, 2022, 11:44:07 PM
Been a little while since I tried your stuff. Here's my current gripes:

General:
- The fact you made various Air Specials done only when Jumping Neutral and/or Forward (sometimes at a specific height) is a bit restrictive for me and it kinda makes them disadvantageous against those that can use them in any direction.
- In IKEMEN, various supers sometimes just don't come out for me no matter what way I do them. (I could blame it on the more strict inputs there)

Lei-Lei:
- It might be impossible to hit with Zampa against your chars now because of the new liedown state with quicker recovery.

Vega/Bison:
- Final Psycho Crusher using a Delta command is a bizzare choice. I feel like you could've simply made it B,F,B,F,3P instead, unless it's to make it harder to access.

Nash:
- Shadow Warp is still listed under Normal's movelist in the Readme.
- I sometimes get Crossfire Blitz instead of a Somersault super. May I suggest throwing in some kind of shortcut for the Deltas? (Jmorphman used DB,QCF,UF for Guile)

Karin:
- I find it disappointing that you can't cancel from Kou'ou Ken into Kisaki no Kourin.
- Kira Eisei Neraiuchi's final hit is still listed as B, DB, D, F, DF, F, p in the Readme.
- Kira Eisei Neraiuchi's satellite cut-in isn't centered when playing in widescreen.

E. Honda:
- EX Ooichou Nage still does 2 hits in contrast to the promise of 3 hits in the changelog.

It's minimal for sure, but I don't have a load to complain about across all chars.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: Toni on April 24, 2022, 11:47:01 PM
Nice updates, especially the Morrigan one ;)

Honda seems to have a problem with his 100 hand slap, though, as he'll often just initially do the light version no matter the strength of the button pressed.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: SNT on April 25, 2022, 04:55:18 AM
Oh man, feels like ages since I've even heard the MvC Cammy voice. That'll take getting used to again.

I'm having some trouble getting Cannon Spike > Cannon Strike during Custom Combo. Was this just tightened up or removed entirely (did that fall under "dive kick while jumping back")?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on April 25, 2022, 11:51:32 AM
Thanks, everyone.

- The fact you made various Air Specials done only when Jumping Neutral and/or Forward (sometimes at a specific height) is a bit restrictive for me and it kinda makes them disadvantageous against those that can use them in any direction.
I can see why you'd feel that way, but it's not such a big deal. You're not supposed to be jumping back much to beging with.

Quote
- In IKEMEN, various supers sometimes just don't come out for me no matter what way I do them. (I could blame it on the more strict inputs there)
I think I more or less know the problem. However I'm not sure I should fix it and make things worse for Mugen when Ikemen's supposed to get an input overhaul soon. Will have to see.

Quote
Lei-Lei:
- It might be impossible to hit with Zampa against your chars now because of the new liedown state with quicker recovery.
It feels that way in training mode but, if you want to get technical about it, it's actually easier to hit them now because they lost access to Mugen's instant recovery by mashing.
That move should be set up beforehand and not done after P2 is on the ground, as in Dasktalkers.

Quote
Vega/Bison:
- Final Psycho Crusher using a Delta command is a bizzare choice. I feel like you could've simply made it B,F,B,F,3P instead, unless it's to make it harder to access.
I don't like inputs with 3 buttons for various reasons, and it'd make B,F,B,F,P way too crowded.
I went with the "delta" input because I had just converted his other supers to charge motions and did not want to make this one without charge. It also kind of makes sense because you need all the charge to do it.

Quote
Nash:
- I sometimes get Crossfire Blitz instead of a Somersault super. May I suggest throwing in some kind of shortcut for the Deltas? (Jmorphman used DB,QCF,UF for Guile)
Sorry but anyone who can do that shortcut can also do it the right way since it accepts DB, DF, QCB, UB. I already made it as forgiving as SF4.
I've personally always done those motions as "charge DB, 360º".

Quote
Karin:
- I find it disappointing that you can't cancel from Kou'ou Ken into Kisaki no Kourin.
Kisaki no Kourin would have to ground P2 for that cancel to work, which I don't want to allow.

Quote
- Kira Eisei Neraiuchi's satellite cut-in isn't centered when playing in widescreen.
Oops. I think they're all still lacking a bit of widescreen and zoom testing since my default setup is 4:3 in Mugen 1.0.

Quote
E. Honda:
- EX Ooichou Nage still does 2 hits in contrast to the promise of 3 hits in the changelog.
I reverted that change but forgot to remove it from the log.

Nice updates, especially the Morrigan one ;)

Honda seems to have a problem with his 100 hand slap, though, as he'll often just initially do the light version no matter the strength of the button pressed.
Fixed. Thanks.

Oh man, feels like ages since I've even heard the MvC Cammy voice. That'll take getting used to again.

I'm having some trouble getting Cannon Spike > Cannon Strike during Custom Combo. Was this just tightened up or removed entirely (did that fall under "dive kick while jumping back")?
Yeah that's pretty much how it happened. However I don't want her to lose that CC so I'll add that exception.

Fooling around with that CC I also found some system issues so I guess I'll update everyone again soon. Few things can stress test your coding the way CC's do. :laugh:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: RagingRowen on April 26, 2022, 05:21:00 PM
I think the problem with the super inputs is that the time between each button has to be just right and not too fast, which makes things pretty awful in desperate situations where you'll likely be mashing to get one out.

Another minor nitpick/question: Is it normal for Nash to create explosion sounds from his throw slams?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on April 26, 2022, 10:00:02 PM
The Ikemen malfunction seems to be caused by the input check I added so that the last direction and the button press cannot be too far apart (to simulate Capcom inputs). I think that's it but I'm not sure why it would even not work. Then again the input parser for Ikemen is still behind Mugen's.

Another minor nitpick/question: Is it normal for Nash to create explosion sounds from his throw slams?
It was intentional back then because I was still fooling around with different common sounds, but nowadays it just feels weird. I'll change it. Yuri's the same story.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: Toni on April 27, 2022, 06:28:30 PM
Found another Morrigan bug.

Both versions of Darkness Illusion can be parried... which might be intentional, except Morrigan then does the whole attack as if she properly hit her opponent, which just doesn't look right in my opinion.
The aerial version can lead to especially weird results if the opponent decides to block the rest of Morrigan's attack instead of countering or moving out of the way, as they will snap to Morrigan's position and then keep standing in mid-air.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: KatsupSpecial on April 27, 2022, 11:48:32 PM
Hey P.o.t.S., since you're "done" updating your old chars, what are you gonna do next? If anything at all?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on April 28, 2022, 06:10:44 PM
Found another Morrigan bug.

Both versions of Darkness Illusion can be parried... which might be intentional, except Morrigan then does the whole attack as if she properly hit her opponent, which just doesn't look right in my opinion.
The aerial version can lead to especially weird results if the opponent decides to block the rest of Morrigan's attack instead of countering or moving out of the way, as they will snap to Morrigan's position and then keep standing in mid-air.
D'oh! I did have the feeling Air Darkness Illusion needed some more work.
As for animating through parries, I removed that from the air version but am still deciding what to do with the ground version. In CvS2 you can parry it, but the way they did it is very ugly because Morrigan pauses the game so P2 can't jump out of it in the beginning.

Hey P.o.t.S., since you're "done" updating your old chars, what are you gonna do next? If anything at all?
Updating the bonus games and the chars no one cares about. :8):
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on April 28, 2022, 09:18:39 PM
Yeeeeeaaa boi! We finally get that "Bison" update!


Although wouldn't mind seeing a new character as well...
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PlasmoidThunder on April 29, 2022, 10:40:00 AM
Yes, IKEMEN has a known issue where the input buffer locks up if too many commands are done in quick succession, sometimes. It's existed since the first version of IKEMEN and carried over all the way to GO, but nobody knows why it happens.

It makes cancelling QCF into QCFx2 basically impossible unless you:
A) Input it so the first QCF counts towards the QCFx2.
B) Delay the QCFx2, which may be suboptimal if the combo timing is tight.

The same is true for QCB -> QCBx2.

Of course you won't notice this issue if the character uses a buffering system like Explodsive or Deep Buffer, so it's down to the commands themselves rather than individual inputs.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: Sennou-Room on April 29, 2022, 12:47:52 PM
About Vega/M.Bison

https://streamable.com/tbz83k

The sound problem of Somersault Skull Diver has not been fixed from the previous version.

Code:
[State 1205, Snd]
type = playsnd
trigger1 = animelem = 3
value = 1, 3
channel = 1

[State 1205, Snd]
type = playsnd
trigger1 = !time
value = 5, 2
channel = 1 ←

The snd channel of Psycho Power Moves are 3, but only this move is 1.
If you are particular about this, you can leave it as it is.


One last suggestion
https://streamable.com/za5szm

I think it would be better to play the voice of Knee Press Nightmare at the same time as the Super Pause FX starts.


And it's a good job, PotS.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on April 29, 2022, 07:50:13 PM
Yes, IKEMEN has a known issue where the input buffer locks up if too many commands are done in quick succession, sometimes. It's existed since the first version of IKEMEN and carried over all the way to GO, but nobody knows why it happens.
I'm not sure it's that because doing them with KFM feels easier than my chars. But I'm not sure what's the problem either, yet.

Of course you won't notice this issue if the character uses a buffering system like Explodsive or Deep Buffer, so it's down to the commands themselves rather than individual inputs.
That makes it even weirder.

The sound problem of Somersault Skull Diver has not been fixed from the previous version.
Fixed. Thanks.

Quote
I think it would be better to play the voice of Knee Press Nightmare at the same time as the Super Pause FX starts.
When I coded that move, putting the voice at the start felt a bit too early. But seeing your video now it sounds good. It's fixed.

And it's a good job, PotS.
Thanks. :) Also, your video reminded me and you're a good person to ask: what does he say in his taunt? I know it's a rhetorical question but I don't know that verb.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: Toni on April 29, 2022, 11:45:55 PM
There's another small thing I noticed with Sakura that I think is a bug, though I'm not 100% sure: when you parry her EX Shou'ou Ken, she will keep running for a bit, but won't do the uppercut anymore, acting as if she whiffed instead.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: Sennou-Room on April 30, 2022, 01:12:42 AM
what does he say in his taunt? I know it's a rhetorical question but I don't know that verb.

Vega/M.Bison "Do you want to give in to me now?"

This is a translation based on his characterization.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on April 30, 2022, 03:27:59 PM
There's another small thing I noticed with Sakura that I think is a bug, though I'm not 100% sure: when you parry her EX Shou'ou Ken, she will keep running for a bit, but won't do the uppercut anymore, acting as if she whiffed instead.
I guess it's because the char was made before my newer parry code existed so you didn't have to account for such things. Fixed that and Haru Issen.

Vega/M.Bison "Do you want to give in to me now?"

This is a translation based on his characterization.
Thanks. :thumbsup:


Updated everyone again. This is mostly bug fixes and some quality of life changes, especially if you use Ikemen. Nash changed a bit more than the others because I changed some normals to SFA2 style.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: A3E3A on April 30, 2022, 08:37:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/LW3ZSm0.png)Hey PotS! How do we add the excel bar to the updated characters? Thank you for all your work!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: Sennou-Room on May 01, 2022, 12:19:44 AM
Thank you for updating.
Excuse me for repeating posts.

Vega, Yuri

Code:
[State -3, High Jump Input]
type = varset
trigger1 = var(2) > 12
var(2) = 0
[State -3, High Jump Input]
type = varadd
trigger1 = var(2) > 0
var(2) = 1
[State -3, High Jump Input]
type = varset
trigger1 = command = "highjump"
trigger1 = ifelse(stateno = 11, command != "rlsdir", 1)
var(2) = 1

Only these two can't make a high jump because the above code isn't in -3 statedef.
Add this ...

Code:
[State 40, High Jump]
type = varset
trigger1 = !time && !AIlevel
var(3) = ifelse(var(2), 3, 0)

And if you change the code in statedef40, it will be solved.


Lei-Lei

Library error message: Died parsing ifelse(stateno = 11, command != "rlsdir", 1)

The above error is displayed because the command "rlsdir" is not registered.
If you register the command, it will be solved.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on May 01, 2022, 09:40:14 AM
Vega, Yuri
[...]
Only these two can't make a high jump because the above code isn't in -3 statedef.

Lei-Lei

Library error message: Died parsing ifelse(stateno = 11, command != "rlsdir", 1)

The above error is displayed because the command "rlsdir" is not registered.
If you register the command, it will be solved.
:omg:
Fixed and reuploaded.
Sorry about that. I messed up at some point while adding the code to everyone. I think the first one happened to Vega and Yuri because they're the last ones alphabetically.

Hey PotS! How do we add the excel bar to the updated characters? Thank you for all your work!
Sorry but there's no easy way about it. You'd have to copy the sprites and code from some char who has it and then modify it a bit.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: gohkenytp on May 04, 2022, 07:53:50 PM
Gee. I sure noticed you're back already POTS. Anyways, I suggest Rare Akuma to defeat Dark Donald in a final blow somehow (if you take suggestions for the character).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: xerf84 on May 04, 2022, 10:17:35 PM
Hello pots, in ikemen go the special intros of several of them have errors in the tag mode when it is the second, third and fourth character.

(https://imgur.com/O1FKF5J.png)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: xerf84 on May 04, 2022, 10:23:54 PM
Some hits mark the spark in P2, even if the parry has been executed well and I do not know if it is very laborious that they have the sfiii system where the character each time he is executing the parry, he goes back slightly. Best regards.

(https://imgur.com/6FqoewD.png)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: PotS on May 05, 2022, 07:36:36 PM
Gee. I sure noticed you're back already POTS. Anyways, I suggest Rare Akuma to defeat Dark Donald in a final blow somehow (if you take suggestions for the character).
You mean that character is unkillable? I don't really feel like tracking down all the cheap characters made in the last decade just so Rare Akuma can kill them. ;P He's more fun to use against normal chars anyway.

Hello pots, in ikemen go the special intros of several of them have errors in the tag mode when it is the second, third and fourth character.
Fixed, I think.

Some hits mark the spark in P2, even if the parry has been executed well
This one seems to be an issue with Ikemen. In Mugen it counts as parry, but in Ikemen it counts as if the move hit so you still get a spark.

Thanks for these. I'd like my chars to be 100% compatible with Ikemen so this is helpful.

I do not know if it is very laborious that they have the sfiii system where the character each time he is executing the parry, he goes back slightly. Best regards.
I considered this at one point. But CvS2 was made after SF3, so I thought Capcom might have changed that for a good reason.
But I'll think about it again.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: xerf84 on May 06, 2022, 08:47:29 AM
Thanks pots, These chars have a good sfiii parry system in case you consider it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20210203222757/http://gmsniper.webcrow.jp/
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: xerf84 on May 12, 2022, 01:13:19 AM
The readme says it was Froz, but even if you held a gun to my head I wouldn't have been able to remember at all on my own.

Jmorphman: Your Ken have an error, the hadouken ex (2 hits), can be repelled by the normal hadouken.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: ShiroTori on May 12, 2022, 01:16:21 AM
Hey xerf, I think it might be better to contact Jmorphman directly regarding that. He's less likely to see your feedback in another creator's thread.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (Cammy and Honda added)
Post by: xerf84 on May 12, 2022, 01:39:45 AM
Hey xerf, I think it might be better to contact Jmorphman directly regarding that. He's less likely to see your feedback in another creator's thread.

You're right, heh.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PotS on May 14, 2022, 06:23:20 PM
Some little updates for everyone. Mostly system updates and bug fixing. By popular demand, I added the super names to the finish screen for those that didn't have them.

I do not know if it is very laborious that they have the sfiii system where the character each time he is executing the parry, he goes back slightly.
Your wish has been granted! After trying it out for a bit I decided they have a bit more flair like that.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: Toni on May 15, 2022, 12:14:24 AM
More updates are always nice, and I like the inclusion of the super names.

Personally though, I have to say that the chosen font looks a bit boring this time around.
This
(https://i.ibb.co/7knHf8r/mugen036.png) (https://ibb.co/6XH2MVD)
doesn't quite have the same impact as this
(https://i.ibb.co/r2Lj4gY/mugen038.png) (https://ibb.co/b5y0zxT)
in my opinion. But maybe that's just me.

Oh, there's another thing I meant to ask you: is there a reason for Morrigan's and Lei-Lei's slashing attacks to not cause blood effects on airborne opponents? No big deal, I'm just curious.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PeXXeR on May 15, 2022, 12:20:17 AM
Something I noticed with evil ryu and master ryu ofc, after a low tatsu, you can connect only with a middle or fierce dragon punch but not the low one, it this on purpose ?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PotS on May 15, 2022, 11:30:03 AM
Personally though, I have to say that the chosen font looks a bit boring this time around.
I understand that, but every now and then I like to give a different font a chance (my chars have what, 5 different fonts?). I think both inside and outside of Mugen Badaboom has been beaten into the ground a bit.

Quote
Oh, there's another thing I meant to ask you: is there a reason for Morrigan's and Lei-Lei's slashing attacks to not cause blood effects on airborne opponents? No big deal, I'm just curious.
That's one of those unintended consequences that have to be ironed out every time you add new code, hehe. Thanks for noticing. It's not a big deal but I think I'll soon update the files for the chars with blood effects.

Something I noticed with evil ryu and master ryu ofc, after a low tatsu, you can connect only with a middle or fierce dragon punch but not the low one, it this on purpose ?
Yeah. For moves that can juggle I like to make them juggle better with the stronger buttons.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: Toni on May 16, 2022, 12:16:30 AM
I get that, and I didn't mean that you should have used the same font over and over. In fact, I like some of the more individual choices like what you've done for Honda. But okay.

On a less personal level, Pocket Shin Gouki's attacks don't do any damage. Yeah... :P
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: Ness on May 16, 2022, 12:31:47 AM
I get that, and I didn't mean that you should have used the same font over and over. In fact, I like some of the more individual choices like what you've done for Honda. But okay.

On a less personal level, Pocket Shin Gouki's attacks don't do any damage. Yeah... :P

man, i was wondering if it was a glitch but yes, in vs mode he does absolutely no damage
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: xerf84 on May 16, 2022, 07:35:46 AM
Some little updates for everyone. Mostly system updates and bug fixing. By popular demand, I added the super names to the finish screen for those that didn't have them.

I do not know if it is very laborious that they have the sfiii system where the character each time he is executing the parry, he goes back slightly.
Your wish has been granted! After trying it out for a bit I decided they have a bit more flair like that.

Thanks pots, I will try the updates, greetings.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PotS on May 16, 2022, 09:19:22 AM
Fixed Pocket Shin Gouki. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PeXXeR on May 16, 2022, 11:44:36 AM
Something I noticed with evil ryu and master ryu ofc, after a low tatsu, you can connect only with a middle or fierce dragon punch but not the low one, it this on purpose ?
Quote
Yeah. For moves that can juggle I like to make them juggle better with the stronger buttons.


While I understand the logic, It kinda threw me off to be honest, I was like I guess they just don't chain but I tried it and I can follow up.

One more thing that irks me if I can put it that way, after the Evil Ryu SF4 kick same input as the normal ryu donkey kick, I can only super cancel to a hyper after a normal version but not the EX , this confuses my brain so much for some reason. its been very long since I played USF4 so I dont remember if this is accurate if its based on it in the first place.

For some reason my brain assumes I can super cancel after the EX kick as well, the only follow up I can think with the time I spent with E.Ryu is an EX dragon punch or a normal one after the EX kick.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PotS on May 18, 2022, 03:52:00 PM
One more thing that irks me if I can put it that way, after the Evil Ryu SF4 kick same input as the normal ryu donkey kick, I can only super cancel to a hyper after a normal version but not the EX , this confuses my brain so much for some reason.
It irks me too because that was unintentional, haha. It was previously a knockdown so I never made it super cancellable (in retrospect it should've been regardless of that). When I recently removed the knockdown property I forgot to make it cancellable. I never noticed it because you normally don't want to super cancel that move but rather link after it.

Quote
its been very long since I played USF4 so I dont remember if this is accurate if its based on it in the first place.
I think the starting point was Kage's frame data, but it's kind of my own thing by now. I changed the EX version because what makes the move fun to use is the links you get from it. With the new EX version you can easily get 3 in the same combo if you start from a roundhouse one.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PeXXeR on May 20, 2022, 11:07:40 PM
Ah I see, glad to hear its an oversight and not a design choice because it was doing my head in lol.


Quote
When I recently removed the knockdown property I forgot to make it cancellable. I never noticed it because you normally don't want to super cancel that move but rather link after it.

I like to mess around with chars and try everything and try to find the best combos I can, this is how it caught my attention.

Thanks man, looking forward to updates.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PotS on May 21, 2022, 11:55:37 AM
Thanks man, looking forward to updates.
Thanks. Other than any bugs we might find, I think updates are going to be very minute from now on. The chars are in a good place right now, I think, so I'm wondering if it's time to close the Mugen versions and make Ikemen-exclusive updates, as I think that will be the main engine when I return in 2034.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: xerf84 on May 24, 2022, 10:26:17 PM
Find another bug with the projectiles, if you press any button and simultaneously the guard just before the impact, it seems that the hit is connected, but the spark is not marked or the life bar descends (Same with Geese's reppuken).

Tested on ikemen go latest version.

(https://imgur.com/7ydONtQ.png)

(https://imgur.com/in9LeVP.png)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PeXXeR on May 25, 2022, 12:25:53 PM
PotS, I know how you go about bosses and such but man, when you play dictator its a crying shame he has no EX attacks :(

Also with the new commands that you gave him I cant do the psycho cannon to save my life :D
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: KatsupSpecial on May 25, 2022, 02:59:25 PM
Hey POTS, are you thinking about doing any new chars or are you "done/retired"?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PotS on May 25, 2022, 04:53:12 PM
Find another bug with the projectiles, if you press any button and simultaneously the guard just before the impact, it seems that the hit is connected, but the spark is not marked or the life bar descends (Same with Geese's reppuken).
Thanks for pointing this out. This doesn't happen in Mugen, but because it does happen in Ikemen, I was able to improve the code.

PotS, I know how you go about bosses and such but man, when you play dictator its a crying shame he has no EX attacks :(
Well originally he didn't have EX moves because it was pre-SF4 and Gill didn't have them either, but nowadays I'm just too lazy to add them. :XD: I think his movelist is already pretty bloated and adding EX moves would imply rethinking some things. I may or may not do it in the future.

Also with the new commands that you gave him I cant do the psycho cannon to save my life :D
Could you elaborate? I didn't change that input. Is it because I removed the shortcuts?

Hey POTS, are you thinking about doing any new chars or are you "done/retired"?
I don't know. At the moment I'm working on the Ikemen Go updates.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PeXXeR on May 25, 2022, 11:27:49 PM
Ah, I see, that makes sense,you are right, Gill had no EX attacks.

As for being lazy nowadays, yeah I can relate to that, as for the commands I guess yeah now that the shortcut is missing i cant pull it off.
Why remove the shortcuts though ?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PotS on May 26, 2022, 09:54:42 PM
They were breaking Ikemen, since it processes inputs pretty differently from Mugen. I wanted compatibility so I compromised. The plan is to restore the Mugen shortcuts to the Mugen versions in the next update and then start releasing updates for Ikemen (currently making a new buffer specifically for those versions).
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: harry7mason on May 27, 2022, 05:24:14 PM
They were breaking Ikemen, since it processes inputs pretty differently from Mugen. I wanted compatibility so I compromised. The plan is to restore the Mugen shortcuts to the Mugen versions in the next update and then start releasing updates for Ikemen (currently making a new buffer specifically for those versions).

I was putting this off for a while but I think it's time I to migrate to ikemen.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: xerf84 on May 29, 2022, 01:23:35 AM
The spark of the move far away from the player.

Spark of the screenpack, tested on ikemen go latest version.

(https://imgur.com/4v4IamK.png)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PotS on May 29, 2022, 09:59:51 AM
Fixed. Thanks. Let me know if you find other cases like that because I don't normally disable the custom sparks.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PeXXeR on May 30, 2022, 12:47:45 AM
One thing I noticed Pots for dictator, the intro triggers for DW's akuma are not there.
I have not checked with Deatscythe's akuma yet, but I will suggest adding triggers for the most used Akumas.

DivineWolfs Akuma plays his part of the intro but your dictator does the generic one.
https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/all-chars-update2018-beyond-183836.0.html

Deathscythe
https://deathscythemugen.neocities.org/chars.html


Also give Dictator Ex attacks or at least the shortcuts  ;D
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: xerf84 on May 30, 2022, 04:45:07 AM
Same to special level 3 of evil Ryu, the sparks are in the hands of evil and not in the enemy. Same to master Ryu.

(https://imgur.com/sJaGKxu.png)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PotS on May 30, 2022, 04:41:10 PM
One thing I noticed Pots for dictator, the intro triggers for DW's akuma are not there.
I have not checked with Deatscythe's akuma yet, but I will suggest adding triggers for the most used Akumas.

DivineWolfs Akuma plays his part of the intro but your dictator does the generic one.
https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/all-chars-update2018-beyond-183836.0.html

Deathscythe
https://deathscythemugen.neocities.org/chars.html
I can do that. But it's odd. I knew they kept that special intro from my chars but why keep the triggers? Were there patches to make them work?

Quote
Also give Dictator Ex attacks
Since you insist I'll add them to my to do list at the bottom. But it'd be for the Ikemen versions if anything.

Quote
or at least the shortcuts  ;D
Try this:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/dxgl4wg01t5mk4b/vegacmd.cmd/file

Same to special level 3 of evil Ryu, the sparks are in the hands of evil and not in the enemy. Same to master Ryu.
And another one. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: Foobs on May 30, 2022, 07:07:59 PM
If you're interested in supporting the special intros other creators made with your characters, Divinewolf also has a  patch for your old version of Yuri.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PeXXeR on June 01, 2022, 05:05:17 PM
Oi, I was saying it as a joke ofc,but thank you for even considering it.
As for the CMD, I'll test it over the weekend cause IRL is very busy right now, I will also take a look at the akumas and let you know.
Im sure both of em came bundled in with patches.

Thanks.

Edit :

The new CMD works like a charm PotS, thank you.

As the psycho cannon is my fave dictator move ever, if I was to commission CVS2 sprites for it but make it look like the EX version of the move, would you be willing to use them ?

I would also add the fire to it as the psycho crusher also applies fire to the OP.
https://youtu.be/mmYp6GiWZf8?t=178


 



Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: GreenZed on June 03, 2022, 03:31:10 AM
Is Bison's corpse from Shin Akuma intro really necessary at this point? Especially after round 1. Feels like a visual clutter to me.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest May 14th)
Post by: PotS on June 03, 2022, 07:13:44 PM
If you're interested in supporting the special intros other creators made with your characters, Divinewolf also has a  patch for your old version of Yuri.
I won't be looking into every such case but I can certainly add a few if people request them.

As the psycho cannon is my fave dictator move ever, if I was to commission CVS2 sprites for it but make it look like the EX version of the move, would you be willing to use them ?
That's a bit of a catch 22 because I'd have to see it first. ;P I think the danger of using the original pose is that the fireball may end up too high up so I'd have to work around that.

Quote
I would also add the fire to it as the psycho crusher also applies fire to the OP.
https://youtu.be/mmYp6GiWZf8?t=178
This one I did on purpose because he already has so many moves that set P2 on fire that I thought making the fireballs pure energy instead of flames would add variety.

Is Bison's corpse from Shin Akuma intro really necessary at this point? Especially after round 1. Feels like a visual clutter to me.
You may have noticed that I made that intro AI-only, so I'm getting tired of it as well, haha. I'll try fading him out.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PotS on June 12, 2022, 12:31:08 PM
A small update for everyone again. This update serves mostly to separate the Mugen versions from the Ikemen Go versions. Support for the Mugen versions will now be limited to bug fixing so that development may continue for Ikemen Go.

Don't use these versions in Ikemen as I reintroduced input shortcuts that will not work there.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: Toni on June 12, 2022, 10:36:17 PM
Neat  :)

One thing I noticed with Sakura is that her K back-throw works a bit strange now: https://streamable.com/ymegca

Also, with Pocket Gouki, if I try to teleport away from the opponent right when he lands from a shoryuken that switches sides, he'll teleport towards the opponent instead, and always with the distance of the P-teleport (even when using the K-teleport). Trying to teleport towards the opponent deliberately (that is, with the proper command) doesn't work at all. https://streamable.com/vosxu2
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PotS on June 14, 2022, 04:13:32 PM
One thing I noticed with Sakura is that her K back-throw works a bit strange now: https://streamable.com/ymegca
Fixed. Thanks. That sounds like something that could be happening in other chars so I'll have to double check everyone.

Quote
Also, with Pocket Gouki, if I try to teleport away from the opponent right when he lands from a shoryuken that switches sides, he'll teleport towards the opponent instead, and always with the distance of the P-teleport (even when using the K-teleport). Trying to teleport towards the opponent deliberately (that is, with the proper command) doesn't work at all. https://streamable.com/vosxu2
Getting a déjà vu with this one. :XD: Which is strange because I didn't tamper with that again.

Concerning the direction error, I think that's because he's at a very specific spacing where P2 is behind him but his commands have not reversed yet. However I haven't been able to reproduce this yet. :???:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: Toni on June 14, 2022, 07:32:29 PM
The timing is admittedly somewhat strict, but not so much that it's unlikely to happen in a real match.
Here's a video of it with debug on, if that helps: https://streamable.com/70qni5
I'm trying to do a K-teleport to the right here, but he does a P-teleport to the left.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on June 14, 2022, 07:36:51 PM
A small update for everyone again. This update serves mostly to separate the Mugen versions from the Ikemen Go versions. Support for the Mugen versions will now be limited to bug fixing so that development may continue for Ikemen Go.

Don't use these versions in Ikemen as I reintroduced input shortcuts that will not work there.
I don't understand. Does that mean that the chars will get new features only in Ikemen Go or do they just need more work to function properly in it?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PotS on June 14, 2022, 08:14:30 PM
The timing is admittedly somewhat strict, but not so much that it's unlikely to happen in a real match.
Here's a video of it with debug on, if that helps: https://streamable.com/70qni5
I'm trying to do a K-teleport to the right here, but he does a P-teleport to the left.
If I'm right then the timing has to precise to one specific frame for it to happen. I got it to happen a few times and have a general idea of why it could be happening. Do you mind seeing if it still happens with this patch?

https://www.mediafire.com/file/l58ygbb23xhd4gu/psg.zip/file

I don't understand. Does that mean that the chars will get new features only in Ikemen Go or do they just need more work to function properly in it?
It means that for the Mugen versions I will only be doing bug fixing from now on, while for the Ikemen versions I might add new things once in a while. Like Windows, hehe.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on June 14, 2022, 09:18:23 PM
I knew it was strange that I was having trouble with your characters on Ikemen. Makes sense now. I'll be downloading all your chars for Ikemen. This reminds me of when you updated the first versions of your characters to mugen 1.0 back when it first hit the scene. Now here we are over a decade later and it finally happened again, lol!
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: Toni on June 14, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
Yes, this seems to have done it. With very few exceptions where the shoryuken ends so close to the opponent that the opponent doesn't turn around until Gouki has already reached the ground (which I'd say is very unlikely to happen in a real match), the teleport happens in the correct direction, and always with the correct distance so far.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: pulloff on June 24, 2022, 03:36:58 AM
Good to have you back Pots ^^
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: Vegaz_Parrelli on June 24, 2022, 03:26:00 PM
I've noticed a significant difference in the input response since the Ikemen updates. Specifically in Vega and Nash. They are 2 of my favs but before the update where almost unusable in Ikemen. Now they're sharp as ever. I notice with Geese after his jaeken he can't run right away. I'd like to follow up with his ground grab. Was that on purpose?  ;)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PotS on June 24, 2022, 06:07:57 PM
This reminds me of when you updated the first versions of your characters to mugen 1.0 back when it first hit the scene. Now here we are over a decade later and it finally happened again, lol!
My thoughts exactly. ;D

Yes, this seems to have done it. With very few exceptions where the shoryuken ends so close to the opponent that the opponent doesn't turn around until Gouki has already reached the ground (which I'd say is very unlikely to happen in a real match), the teleport happens in the correct direction, and always with the correct distance so far.  :thumbsup:
Sweet. Thanks for pointing it out, then testing it again. I'm sure the same thing was happening with other similar moves in my chars, so I was able to fix it for all of them (will reupload this weekend).

Good to have you back Pots ^^
Thanks. :)

I've noticed a significant difference in the input response since the Ikemen updates. Specifically in Vega and Nash. They are 2 of my favs but before the update where almost unusable in Ikemen. Now they're sharp as ever. I notice with Geese after his jaeken he can't run right away. I'd like to follow up with his ground grab. Was that on purpose?  ;)
Good to know. As for Geese, that's just the move's recovery frames I guess. It's generally a lot easier to get the grab in the corner.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PeXXeR on June 25, 2022, 04:57:49 PM
PotS updated both Mugen and Ikemen cast today.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PotS on June 25, 2022, 08:21:18 PM
I did it quietly because there are barely any changes in the Mugen versions. ;P The Ikemen versions on the other hand may be worth getting.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: Toni on June 26, 2022, 02:22:22 AM
It's still nice that you keep the characters updated, even if its "just" to fix some bugs here and there. :)

One tiny, purely cosmetic thing about Sakura I found: the way Dark Sakura snaps to the characters' heads when she does her SGS looks pretty weird. Small characters like Pocket Shin Gouki make her sink into the ground, while for very large characters, the way she dangles from their necks can look pretty comical.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PeXXeR on June 26, 2022, 03:41:53 AM
I did it quietly because there are barely any changes in the Mugen versions. ;P The Ikemen versions on the other hand may be worth getting.

Don't you try to butter me up with your fancy pancy ikemen updates PotS :P

Though I will check them out as well as I am also messing with Ikemen and im thinking of having a small build to play.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PotS on June 26, 2022, 12:44:26 PM
One tiny, purely cosmetic thing about Sakura I found: the way Dark Sakura snaps to the characters' heads when she does her SGS looks pretty weird. Small characters like Pocket Shin Gouki make her sink into the ground, while for very large characters, the way she dangles from their necks can look pretty comical.
I had already done a proper grabbing pose with normal Sakura's version, so with Dark Sakura I opted to have the original pose. I actually like that it looks funny. But will probably have to do something about small chars indeed.

It's still nice that you keep the characters updated, even if its "just" to fix some bugs here and there. :)
Don't you try to butter me up with your fancy pancy ikemen updates PotS :P

Though I will check them out as well as I am also messing with Ikemen and im thinking of having a small build to play.
I feel like I might be a bit early to the party because the Mugen versions get a lot more downloads than the Ikemen versions, even though the latter are a bit better. Time will tell.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PeXXeR on June 26, 2022, 02:39:48 PM
Are you splitting the chars up because of inputs only ?

If thats the case, why not include both CMD files in the chars and let people switch ? it would save you the hassle of updating both sets of chars.


EDIT: HOLY SHIT I JUST NOTICED YOU ADDED THE SHORTCUTS let's say Geese's dash grab thing on the legs, sorry im horrible with names.
Now I can do it with fwd,dwn,back.

Awesome.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: DauntlessMonk7 on June 26, 2022, 03:51:46 PM
EDIT: HOLY SHIT I JUST NOTICED YOU ADDED THE SHORTCUTS let's say Geese's dash grab thing on the legs, sorry im horrible with names.
Now I can do it with fwd,dwn,back. Awesome.

Wait, Geese has shortcut commands now? Are those in the .CMD file?
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: Macaulyn97 on June 26, 2022, 03:56:00 PM
I feel like I might be a bit early to the party because the Mugen versions get a lot more downloads than the Ikemen versions, even though the latter are a bit better. Time will tell.
I mean, Ikemen is meant to be like an online version of MUGEN, right? There are certainly people who like playing online, but its certainly not for everyone, personally I don't care for it at all, I use MUGEN mostly to make my mediocre gameplay videos. Thats why, if you add major updates to your chars, I hope you don't forget MUGEN.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: Umezono on June 26, 2022, 04:35:52 PM
Ikemen isn't an "online version" of MUGEN. Its meant to be an alternative/replacement to MUGEN that is fully open source and actually in-development.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: NDSilva on June 26, 2022, 04:53:12 PM
Hi, PotS! :hyo:

Since you seem to have a bit of in-depth knowledge about IKEMEN's style of coding, perhaps this is a good opportunity to ask: how much does the command/input system differs from MUGEN, precisely?

I've seen a few mentions on the forum, about some kind of glitch that's exclusive to IKEMEN's input...? But then I couldn't seem to find any speciffic info about what this 'difference' would be.

Also, are there benefits in using a MUGEN-focused custom input system, on IKEMEN?  Like the EXPLODsive Buffering system, or the Tiny Buffering for example;
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PotS on June 26, 2022, 07:40:31 PM
Are you splitting the chars up because of inputs only ?
That was one of the motivators but not the only one. Also that Ikemen has a bunch of features out of the box that people had to manually code in Mugen, like movelists, stun damage and tagging. But most of all, it's just more exciting to work with an engine that's in development than with one I already worked over a decade ago.

Quote
If thats the case, why not include both CMD files in the chars and let people switch ? it would save you the hassle of updating both sets of chars.
Unfortunately the inputs run deeper than the CMD file so that's impossible.

Quote
EDIT: HOLY SHIT I JUST NOTICED YOU ADDED THE SHORTCUTS let's say Geese's dash grab thing on the legs, sorry im horrible with names.
Now I can do it with fwd,dwn,back.

Awesome.
Not sure what's funnier, "dash grab thing on the legs" or the fact I know what you mean. ;P
Yeah I added them back.

Wait, Geese has shortcut commands now? Are those in the .CMD file?
It's probably not the kind of shortcut you're thinking about. It's just some CMD tricks that make some moves easier to perform, especially on a keyboard. And it's not just Geese.

I mean, Ikemen is meant to be like an online version of MUGEN, right? There are certainly people who like playing online, but its certainly not for everyone, personally I don't care for it at all, I use MUGEN mostly to make my mediocre gameplay videos. Thats why, if you add major updates to your chars, I hope you don't forget MUGEN.
Just to follow up on Umezono's post, if Elecbyte made Mugen 1.0 and 1.1, then Ikemen Go is more like Mugen 2.0 than just online Mugen (which by itself is already a big deal).

Hi, PotS! :hyo:

Since you seem to have a bit of in-depth knowledge about IKEMEN's style of coding, perhaps this is a good opportunity to ask: how much does the command/input system differs from MUGEN, precisely?
I'm not sure if it's worth delving much into that since people (Gacel) are already remaking the input parser. But the 3 big differences, off the top of my head, are:

- Ikemen can read the entire command in one frame
- Does not allow extra directions to be inputted in the middle of a motion
- Has no input lenience for simultaneous button presses

The first two kill any motion shortcuts (unless you work around them). The third one hurts characters with EX moves the most.

Quote
Also, are there benefits in using a MUGEN-focused custom input system, on IKEMEN?  Like the EXPLODsive Buffering system, or the Tiny Buffering for example;
Explodsive and Deep Buffering should work all the same as they did in Mugen. Tiny Buffering is probably harmed by the issues listed above. My chars also use a custom buffer, which was a lot easier to do in Ikemen than in Mugen.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: DauntlessMonk7 on June 26, 2022, 07:51:09 PM
It's probably not the kind of shortcut you're thinking about. It's just some CMD tricks that make some moves easier to perform, especially on a keyboard. And it's not just Geese.

Ah, ok. Still sounds pretty cool, though.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PeXXeR on June 27, 2022, 12:51:51 AM
Quote
Quote
EDIT: HOLY SHIT I JUST NOTICED YOU ADDED THE SHORTCUTS let's say Geese's dash grab thing on the legs, sorry im horrible with names.
Now I can do it with fwd,dwn,back.

Awesome.
Not sure what's funnier, "dash grab thing on the legs" or the fact I know what you mean. ;P
Yeah I added them back.

My explanations are on point :D :D :D

Might as well ask you about this, I find it super cool.

I just noticed this.

Man, E.Ryu is fun.

If I don't do the super tatsu, I can hit him 3 times with a fierce dragon punch if my timing is on point.

Edit: a daaang it


Wait instead of using the super tatsu, I'll try the other level 1's

The reason im posting it is because its super cool and to basically ask if this was intended.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: ZolidSone on June 27, 2022, 03:27:08 AM
Since your characters is about finished, I think it's about time to post this overdue feedback that I have for a few months and I don't want to keep the notepad of it on my desktop anymore:

General:
-The new naming scheme of the character folders feels much more disorganized (Although minor, I find it questionable why was it typed like this rather than using the old format where it was nice and tidy).
-Guy, Sakura and Shin Gouki's big portraits were changed (Still minor, but the new ones either don't match their default palettes and/or improperly scaled).
-Certain characters like Lei-Lei, Guy and Karin can still only forward/backwards dodge.
-Karin and Nakoruru have different custom combo animations than the others.
-All characters use different landing sound effects and are inconsistent with each other.
-There is no alt cns for CPS2 scaling for those with an 0.833 xscale.
-The characters that had CvS2 hitsparks previously still uses those sounds instead of the new ones.
-Their super finish animations are not animated the same way as the ones added later on back then were left as is.
-All characters immediately stop running if the opponent jumps over or dodges through them instead of you choosing to (The CONFIG.txt should have an option to let them continue running as it's a good method that pull them or viewing stages with longer bounds).
-Every time a opponent get hits with a special or super, another fixed hitspark always appears right behind them if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 1 and no way to get rid of it (I find this annoying as certain attacks can make it feel misaligned).

Cammy:
-The dash sound on Sniping Heel plays twice when she starts running (Which makes it sound louder).

E. Honda:
-Depending on opponent's hitbox, he can jump over the opponent during MAX Fuji Oroshi and cause the third hit not to connect (It misses when it's used on Karin or Nakoruru).

Guy:
-The sliding dust on his run stop animation is the not same position as Hayagake's one.
-The sliding dust sound effect on Hayagake's run stop is not the same as his running animation.
-There is no swing sound when Bushin Musou Renge misses.

Karin:
-Homura-geri has no hitsparks if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 0.

Nash (Although it's mostly regarding Shadow instead):
-I personally think the SFA2 style normals should be for Shadow instead (The old animations were accurate to SFA3, now it's more kin to MSHvsSF which fits Shadow more).
-Flying Buster Drop doesn't have a landing effect when he touches the ground.
-Level 2 Crossfire Blitz doesn't have a landing effect when it misses or fails to connect like his forward dash.
-Sonic Break causes a no helper 3000 debug error when the opponent is defeated with it.
-He doesn't have a standalone def file for Shadow.
-All of Shadow's specials, throws and supers are lacking voice clips (Even though he doesn't speak, he still grunts during them).
-Shadow's eye gleam effect is layered incorrectly.
-The eye gleam doesn't play before the superpause (Letting it play during it is inaccurate to MSHvsSF and doesn't stand out to Nash).
-Shadow's Psycho Power flames are technically supposed to be blue, not purple.
-Shadow's Sonic Boom has no flames when it hits the opponent and just feel like a recolor of Nash's Sonic Boom.
-Shadow's eye gleam is misaligned during the startup of Final Mission.
-Final Mission is missing a swing sound when he punches upward and an eye gleam effect at the end of the animation when it's successful.
-Shadow should have his own dedicated super texts with the move names from MSHvsSF and not from Nash since they are technically different.
-Shadow doesn't "explode" if he lost 2 rounds.

Nakoruru:
-She is the only one who have her hitsparks unchanged.
-Standing MK, close standing HK and Apefuchi Kamui Rimse is missing a landing effect when she touches the ground.
-The super spark on Shichikapu Kamui Irushika is misaligned if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 0.

Lei-Lei:
-Each step from her running animation doesn't have a landing effect.
-PP and KK versions of Hourei is excessive since they're both the same throw with a different command.
-Houtengeki and Spirit Roller doesn't have a swing sound when she misses her grab animation.
-All objects on Ankihou disappear by a frame instead of fade when they touch the ground like the pins in Spirit Roller.
-The landing effect on the Spike Balls on Tenraiha are little too high and makes them look like their floating.
-All versions of Senpuubu have no hitsparks or guard sparks when it makes contact if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 0.

Ryu:
-His super text has a typo it's missing a extra u on Shinkuu and Hadouken.

Sakura:
-Her super text has a typo it's missing a u on Shinkuu and Hadouken.
-She doesn't have a standalone def file for Dark mode.
-The hitspark on the last hit of Sakura Jime is misaligned if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 0.
-Mode Change does not change her palette when switching.
-It would be nice to have the option to perform Nekketsu Hadouken in a Tengyou angle.

Shin Gouki:
-His super text has a typo it's missing a extra u on Gou and Hadou.

Pocket Shin Gouki:
-He is using special guard sparks for his normals.
-The opponent automatically air recovers from Messatsu Gou Hadou, Tenma Gou Zankuu, Messatsu Gou Shoryuu and Messatsu Gou Senpuu (Messatsu Gou Rasen is the only level 1 super that does not do that).

Vega:
-There is no jump sound effect when he leaps from Head Press when it connects.
-The hitspark on the 7th hit of Nightmare Booster is misaligned if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 0.
-There is no landing effect when he touches the ground after the end of Nightmare Booster.

Yuri:
-She doesn't have sliding dust on the run stop animation.
-She is missing landing dust and sound when she touches the ground from Silent Nage.
-The swing sound on Yuri Chou Upper plays after it hits the opponent.
-When the opponent hits the ground from using Raioushou, a strong ground shockwave from the fightfx appears instead of her own and is layered incorrectly.
-She uses a different custom combo sound effect.

Honestly, I think the characters needs more than just bug fixing. This is what I meant about inconsistency back then as some of them don't match up with one another (Pocket Shin Gouki is the only exception as his style is different from the others). The problem is that I just don't understand why you left certain parts of the original versions as is on the 2022 updates instead of keeping the consistency the same. This is why I decided not to come back to the topic until a few months later until everyone is out first and see if any changes happen. Even if I see nothing wrong with a specific character, the general census still applies with them. Whether you choose to follow this or not, I'll leave that up to you.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PotS on June 27, 2022, 07:13:42 PM
Might as well ask you about this, I find it super cool.
He's had that for most of his life, hehe. He got it from Ryu's Shin Shoryuken, who in turn got it from SF3.

Man, E.Ryu is fun.
Thanks. I tried to make everyone more fun and it worked out particularly well for him.

Since your characters is about finished, I think it's about time to post this overdue feedback that I have for a few months and I don't want to keep the notepad of it on my desktop anymore:
Thanks a lot. I've just started going through your feedback but I think I can already reply to most if not all of it.

I'm trying to fix both Mugen and Ikemen versions, but I apologize in advance if some of these changes only make it to the Ikemen versions.

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General:
-The new naming scheme of the character folders feels much more disorganized (Although minor, I find it questionable why was it typed like this rather than using the old format where it was nice and tidy).
This is indeed nitpicking but there are two good reasons why I did it:
- When I download a character named "Ryu", I have to rename the folder and def file to avoid overwriting the other "Ryu" in there, so I'm just saving people the trouble;
- It's a lot easier to work on several chars at a time when you can tell what a file is by its name alone, so I added a prefix to everything according to which char it belongs to.

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-Guy, Sakura and Shin Gouki's big portraits were changed (Still minor, but the new ones either don't match their default palettes and/or improperly scaled).
By palette do you mean Shin Gouki? He had the same problem in Capcom Fighting Jam, where the portrait came from, but I'll fix it.
As for the scaling, it's more like people have grown used to seeing the stretched sprites. They are rescaled to the proper aspect ratio.

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-Certain characters like Lei-Lei, Guy and Karin can still only forward/backwards dodge.
I removed Lei-Lei's neutral dodge because it looked a lot like her fireball (since it's reused from there). But sidestepping is not a mechanic I care very much about so most of the time I only added it because the sprites were there.

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-All characters use different landing sound effects and are inconsistent with each other.
This is intentional. Characters wearing shoes have a shoe sound, and barefeet characters have a softer sound.

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-There is no alt cns for CPS2 scaling for those with an 0.833 xscale.
Not a feature I care about promoting. I think the Mugen community (myself included) collectively messed up when we used the raw aspect ratio for most CPS characters. I guess originally it was because resizing them didn't look good in the low resolutions that were available at the time, but nowadays there's no point in doing it.

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-The characters that had CvS2 hitsparks previously still uses those sounds instead of the new ones.
This is just Nakoruru unless I'm missing something. And it's to match the sparks.

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-All characters immediately stop running if the opponent jumps over or dodges through them instead of you choosing to (The CONFIG.txt should have an option to let them continue running as it's a good method that pull them or viewing stages with longer bounds).
That is how running works in CvS and I think it makes sense.

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-Every time a opponent get hits with a special or super, another fixed hitspark always appears right behind them if the fvar(31) in common effects was set to 1 and no way to get rid of it (I find this annoying as certain attacks can make it feel misaligned).
If you look at some Capcom sparks (SFA from the top of my head) and mine, you'll see that that's how it's supposed to be. I forget why I didn't make them like that from the getgo.

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Guy:
-The sliding dust on his run stop animation is the not same position as Hayagake's one.
-The sliding dust sound effect on Hayagake's run stop is not the same as his running animation.
That was a poor attempt at making them look different. Your post made me try something different so I made the regular run stop animation less exaggerated and I think it works quite well. Still not sure about using the same sound.

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Nash (Although it's mostly regarding Shadow instead):
-I personally think the SFA2 style normals should be for Shadow instead (The old animations were accurate to SFA3, now it's more kin to MSHvsSF which fits Shadow more).
I think he's too much like Guile in SFA3. So what I did was use the SFA3 punches and the SFA2 kicks, which is the most unique combination compared to him.
If you take a look at SF5, Capcom also returned to his SFA2 normals instead of SFA3.

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-He doesn't have a standalone def file for Shadow.
I could do this for him and other chars if enough people showed interest.

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-All of Shadow's specials, throws and supers are lacking voice clips (Even though he doesn't speak, he still grunts during them).
I will have to take a closer look at the source. (This is one of the changes that'd be too bothersome to do in both Mugen and Ikemen so it's probably only going in the latter)

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-The eye gleam doesn't play before the superpause (Letting it play during it is inaccurate to MSHvsSF and doesn't stand out to Nash).
Superpause mechanics are very different in MvC and SF/CvS, so the eye gleam is just an easter egg.

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-Shadow's Psycho Power flames are technically supposed to be blue, not purple.
Bison's are also blue in MSHvSF so I guess either one works. But making them blue may make him stand out more so I'll think about it.

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-Shadow's Sonic Boom has no flames when it hits the opponent and just feel like a recolor of Nash's Sonic Boom.
Shadow can throw Sonic Booms like no one else thanks to them being a QCF motion, so I feel that having flames everywhere could get annoying.

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-Final Mission is missing a swing sound when he punches upward and an eye gleam effect at the end of the animation when it's successful.
Regarding the latter, I think having it twice in the same move would be overdoing it.

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-Shadow should have his own dedicated super texts with the move names from MvSF and not from Nash since they are technically different.
I did away with the fact most of his moves have "Shadow" in them. That's cool in MvSF where he replaced Nash, but here I don't think there's much of a point since those moves behave the same.

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-Shadow doesn't "explode" if he lost 2 rounds.
That'd be a nice touch now that you mention it.

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Nakoruru:
-She is the only one who have her hitsparks unchanged.
I asked people if I should change them but there were no strong feelings either way. I guess they're even more out of place now that even the older chars use the new sparks, but they still look nice I think.

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Lei-Lei:
-Each step from her running animation doesn't have a landing effect.
I had tried that but it looks a bit too busy with the other dust effects.

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-PP and KK versions of Hourei is excessive since they're both the same throw with a different command.
You're right but it's also like that in DS, and it feels weird when a throw input (kick in this case) does nothing.

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Ryu:
-His super text has a typo it's missing a extra u on Shinkuu and Hadouken.
That depens on what system you're using to romanize it. I'm using the same as Capcom there.
Admittedly I'm not 100% consistent with that, but I at least try to have the same system for each group of text (e.g. all of his super texts use that system).

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-Mode Change does not change her palette when switching.
I may do that in the future. I kind of don't like having the palettes in the SFF though because it makes it harder for people to change them.

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-It would be nice to have the option to perform Nekketsu Hadouken in a Tengyou angle.
I think that'd ironically make it less special.

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Pocket Shin Gouki:
-He is using special guard sparks for his normals.
-The opponent automatically air recovers from Messatsu Gou Hadou, Tenma Gou Zankuu, Messatsu Gou Shoryuu and Messatsu Gou Senpuu (Messatsu Gou Rasen is the only level 1 super that does not do that).
Both points are like the Marvel games.

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Yuri:
-When the opponent hits the ground from using Raioushou, a strong ground shockwave from the fightfx appears instead of her own and is layered incorrectly.
I like to just use the screenpack effects in cases like this.

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Honestly, I think the characters needs more than just bug fixing. This is what I meant about inconsistency back then as some of them don't match up with one another (Pocket Shin Gouki is the only exception as his style is different from the others). The problem is that I just don't understand why you left certain parts of the original versions as is on the 2022 updates instead of keeping the consistency the same. This is why I decided not to come back to the topic until a few months later until everyone is out first and see if any changes happen. Even if I see nothing wrong with a specific character, the general census still applies with them. Whether you choose to follow this or not, I'll leave that up to you.
To be fair I already made them more consistent than I set out to do thanks to feedback like this. But I think if people want to put together a 100% "PotS style" roster they already have the pieces to do that, so I'd rather just keep modifying and trying to improve things (even if not everything is a hit).
If I didn't change something from the original versions it's either because I forgot, or thought it looked good enough already, I guess. If I were making a full game I'd definitely make things 100% consistent but as it stands there's not much of a point.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PeXXeR on June 28, 2022, 09:37:17 AM
PotS I saw that you fixed Dictator's intros but E.Ryu's intro does not trigger against DivineWolf's Akuma.

Akuma does his part, but Ryu is having none of it :D

Akuma comes packed in with a patch only for Victory's Evil Ryu as DW has not been very active lately.
I would give you the link, but DW's links are down if you need the patch or anything, I can send the file over.
(https://i.imgur.com/MMXYu8h.png)
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: Bakudan on June 28, 2022, 11:28:52 PM
Movelists are not showing up properly on ikemen Go on Mac.
Title: Re: 2022 Character Updates (latest June 11th)
Post by: PotS on June 29, 2022, 11:44:38 AM
PotS I saw that you fixed Dictator's intros but E.Ryu's intro does not trigger against DivineWolf's Akuma.
Added.

Movelists are not showing up properly on ikemen Go on Mac.
I can't test on Mac, so could you post a screenshot?