The Mugen Fighters Guild - Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

Niitris

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#121 October 02, 2013, 11:04:14 pm

It never said... safe to say it doesn't at this current point.

They could do it down the line if they choose to; Elecbyte could give Mugen online if they wanted to, I don't see why they can't (unless they decide not to focus on that).

Personally, I'd rather them focus on adding more coding nuances first before thinking about online.

Odb718

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#122 October 03, 2013, 02:09:26 am

Shame on you!

maximilianjenus said, October 02, 2013, 03:03:50 am

you did not imply it, you outright said it.

Please hilight a quote from me where I said what you guys were "waiting on". I put my first response in the spoiler to make it easier for you.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Cazaki, in one of the videos I've seen they stated that it's possible but there's a hard problem they're working around. More than likely making sure the two "EF-12"'s are identical. Games always have a tough time communicating if small things arent exactly the same. I could imagine if everything's changeable there could be a couple big hurdles.

Niitris, I see you agree with me and then still argue.
"If you think the way collision is handled has no effect on Skullgirls gameplay, then you probably don't know as much as you think."
The way the collision is HANDLED. HAAAANDLED. Not what shape the geometry is. Obviously poorly laid out hitboxes/hitspheres will affect the character. As Aldo sort of pointed out, it's how you lay them out, not their shape. Same thing in mugen. If clsn2s arent there, the character's broken.
My entire "argument" is Shape vs Functions. I say the general shape isnt half as important as the overall functions that will be in the engine. Think of it like this. If mugen used a circle instead of a box to map the clsn1 and clsn2s, what would be different? What would that ENTIRELY change in the game??
If I was going to talk about animation and discussing techniques, I wouldnt do it in a specific thread about a specific thing that ISNT animation and animating techniques. If I was going to discuss the differences between 2D animation and 3D animation, that too could be it's own thread. THIS however, is the EF-12 thread.

-Red- did you even google "kneply Epic" and see what popped up? I can tell by your ""quotes"" you didnt. Pete's produced, 4 or 5, multimillion dollar selling games. Shizno's actually a 2nd party developer for Nintendo. We were making Xbox homebrew back then for fun.
"Are you really saying that CLSN boxes are not an integral part of the system in a fighting game?"
No.
I'm saying their basic shape(s) isnt the underlying factor of a game's gameplay. We're at a disconnect because you choose not to read what I'm actually saying.

Nero D. I'm serious about working on a couple characters. It's always best to learn from each other. I've done animation and rigging and everything that goes along with creating a 3D fighting game in the past. Well, except the code/scripting part. If you'd like to team up when this gets rolling let me know.

I still say all of the characters created for SSBB "homebrew" will be able to be ported over or fixed to work in it. And there are TONS of characters from a lot of different games.

vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv

Niitris

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#123 October 03, 2013, 03:06:38 am

I never agreed with you (I just used that word to illustrate the point)... don't know how you interpreted that.

Odb718 said, September 30, 2013, 06:59:13 am

All this talk of collision box styles and if animating 3D is harder than spriting doesnt freaking matter.

Besides, you're beginning to argue about the very point that you thought doesn't matter.... Ironic, isn't it?

Odb718 said, October 03, 2013, 02:09:26 am

If I was going to talk about animation and discussing techniques, I wouldnt do it in a specific thread about a specific thing that ISNT animation and animating techniques. If I was going to discuss the differences between 2D animation and 3D animation, that too could be it's own thread. THIS however, is the EF-12 thread.

And what in blue hell is the difference if you do it in a separate thread or not (especially since animation is pretty important in Project EF-12... a 3D engine)? Stop being so damn formal, geez.

I'll give you a better answer by saying that the engine has built in tools that allow for creating models and presumably easier transition to use those assets in a game engine. This is great for people who don't have money to get Maya or Softimage and feel intimidated using Blender (the interface is pretty difficult for someone who's just starting). If there are people who are used to 2D artwork and never dabbled with modeling or rigging, I think they would want to know the differences between 2D and 3D as well as any other nuances that go into making 3D assets for game creation.

I'll end it here. I'll discuss anything I deem is worthy of being talked about in this thread (whether it's with you or anyone else). You saying otherwise isn't going to stop me (or anyone else). Nothing personal.

Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 03:13:00 am by Niitris

Cazaki

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#124 October 03, 2013, 03:12:46 am

Niitris said, October 02, 2013, 11:04:14 pm

It never said... safe to say it doesn't at this current point.

They could do it down the line if they choose to; Elecbyte could give Mugen online if they wanted to, I don't see why they can't (unless they decide not to focus on that).

Personally, I'd rather them focus on adding more coding nuances first before thinking about online.

I don't know, it seems like one of those things where once you get it out of the way and ensure that it is indeed possible, you can just let the community figure it out from there. Like, I think it should be taken care of before the project gets out of hand and it becomes too difficult to go back and implement. I'm not saying that's how it works or anything but I think it should at least be on the agenda. Online will make it much more popular and projects will feel a lot more meaningful. Sure you can say that it's not important but it kind of is.

Odb718 said, October 03, 2013, 02:09:26 am

Cazaki, in one of the videos I've seen they stated that it's possible but there's a hard problem they're working around. More than likely making sure the two "EF-12"'s are identical. Games always have a tough time communicating if small things arent exactly the same. I could imagine if everything's changeable there could be a couple big hurdles.

I actually expected that to be the case since that's part of MUGEN's problem, but since these developers appear to be much more persistent and rigorous about their project than Elecbyte I think they could find a way to go about it. I asked the question just to know if it was outlawed and completely out of the question or not, but since they are actually trying to add it I'm certain that the day will one day come.

Niitris

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#125 October 03, 2013, 03:25:57 am

It doesn't matter to me that much. I just want to be able to manipulate the engine as much as possible (so far, SF4 or any other 2D fighter, can't be truly replicated because of coding restrictions).

Online right away would create great initial buzz. I sure they'll add it down the line since they appear to have more time to commit to this.

Bastard Mami

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#126 October 03, 2013, 04:34:21 am

Odb718 said, October 03, 2013, 02:09:26 am

maximilianjenus said, October 02, 2013, 03:03:50 am
you did not imply it, you outright said it.
Please hilight a quote from me where I said what you guys were "waiting on". I put my first response in the spoiler to make it easier for you.

Odb718 said, September 30, 2013, 06:59:13 am
I dont think there were very many AMAZING characters when Mugen first came out were there?
All of this talk of "wait and see" is backwards. If you wait around, no one's going to do anything and it'll die off.

done, lol.

Aldo

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#127 October 03, 2013, 05:21:34 am

Staying Alive

Odb718 said, October 03, 2013, 02:09:26 am

As Aldo sort of pointed out, it's how you lay them out, not their shape. Same thing in mugen. If clsn2s arent there, the character's broken.

Hey you, stop putting words in my mouth!!

Chilling

Bastard Mami

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#128 October 03, 2013, 05:43:00 am

As aldo said, dicks are the best and he can't get enough of them.

Aldo

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#129 October 03, 2013, 05:45:51 am

Staying Alive

There is never enough dicks in anyone´s life.

Chilling

Odb718

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#130 October 03, 2013, 06:46:59 am

Shame on you!

maximilianjenus said, October 03, 2013, 04:34:21 am

Odb718 said, October 03, 2013, 02:09:26 am
maximilianjenus said, October 02, 2013, 03:03:50 am
you did not imply it, you outright said it.
Please hilight a quote from me where I said what you guys were "waiting on". I put my first response in the spoiler to make it easier for you.

Odb718 said, September 30, 2013, 06:59:13 am
I dont think there were very many AMAZING characters when Mugen first came out were there?
All of this talk of "wait and see" is backwards. If you wait around, no one's going to do anything and it'll die off.

done, lol.

There was an underlying feeling of "Lets see how this turns out" feeling as I was reading all of the responses.
SXVector - "Project EF-12 is merely just an extension of fighting simulators/engines and I guess we have to wait out and see how far it goes."
Roman55 - Seriously though, I'm also pretty interested in seeing where this will go. I'd personally wait a good while after it gets released before attempting to mess with this myself however.
Niitris - Yeah, it'll be years before anything truly good comes out.

One thing that has my a little worried is this image.

If you see the larger hand, the hit box is still the same size. Hopefully the radii of hitspheres can be adjusted on the fly instead of relying on "helpers".
Perhaps you could make say 4 smaller hitspheres and nest them inside of the fist's original sphere, then move them into position, increasing the area.
There's also a TON of dead area to cover inside the forearm.

I think getting online play would be a very good thing for keeping this project alive. I'd like to see an option of a private server more than an open to all area. Development would be boosted 10 fold. If you could get instant feedback because you're playing against someone instead of having to release the character and wait would be awesome. "That pop up goes too high." "That took off a little too much damage." on and on. Instant feedback would be a major boost to Mugen's dev'ing too.

I have a cousin in the outskirts of Tokyo. I'm going to see if he can translate some of the images. He's actually an English teacher and does professional translating as side work. Hopefully he has some time to spare.

vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv

Niitris

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#131 October 03, 2013, 07:28:44 am

First off, there's nothing wrong with a wait-and-see approach... everyone has goals and personal lives of their own. I mean, this was only revealed a week ago.

Secondly...

Niitris said, September 26, 2013, 08:28:48 am

RunningWild said, September 26, 2013, 08:05:55 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cz6HJ7nI_c

Yeah, it'll be years before anything truly good comes out.

I was being facetious when I said that (and responding to a video)... How did you think that was "wait-and-see?" I just stopped working on something Blender-related 5 minutes ago that I'm considering using for this.

Whatever... if you're so interested in getting things released immediately, do it yourself. Can't force others to do what you want them to.

Lichtbringer

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#132 October 04, 2013, 05:30:56 pm

Odb718 said, October 03, 2013, 06:46:59 am

One thing that has my a little worried is this image.

Ok that looks like a problem, but not like a problem that can't be fixed with a little patch.

Byakko

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#133 October 04, 2013, 05:46:17 pm

Considering they're specifically showing a screenshot with this particular situation, you don't even think the text below it specifically addresses it ?
It says basically, the collision spheres aren't scaled together with the model, so there can be an empty space which you can use to balance it however you want, and you just have to add new collision spheres or a helper to fill the gaps if you want to.

A patch ? Seriously, guys. It's the whole point of showing you the screenshot.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 05:49:45 pm by DKDC

Lichtbringer

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#134 October 05, 2013, 09:46:27 am

DKDC said, October 04, 2013, 05:46:17 pm

Considering they're specifically showing a screenshot with this particular situation, you don't even think the text below it specifically addresses it ?
It says basically, the collision spheres aren't scaled together with the model, so there can be an empty space which you can use to balance it however you want, and you just have to add new collision spheres or a helper to fill the gaps if you want to.

A patch ? Seriously, guys. It's the whole point of showing you the screenshot.

I can't read Japanese, so my post was more a reaction to the post of Odb718.^^

Byakko

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#135 October 05, 2013, 12:24:42 pm

I didn't say you needed to read Japanese to get it. I said the opposite. The mere fact that they're showing the screenshot is obviously because they want to talk about it.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Odb718

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#136 October 07, 2013, 07:17:10 am

Shame on you!

Well, I also dont know Japanese. I figured they were showing off the fact you can distort the original mesh, or use a secondary mesh for "special" moves.
I'm glad they have a plan for this. From what you can understand, does it imply that the hitspheres will be totally adjustable on the fly?

vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv

Byakko

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#137 October 07, 2013, 09:43:20 am

It seems to say you can add more spheres on the fly, yes. So it's no different from Mugen's collision boxes. The spheres, as objects, don't scale with the limb they're attached to, but I'm assuming it should also be possible to scale them manually regardless of the scale of the limb as well. It's not specified here, but I don't see any reason against that (it's just saying they don't follow the scale of the limb).

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

xPreatorianx1

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)

#138 October 08, 2013, 12:08:40 am

DNZRX768 said, October 01, 2013, 10:56:34 pm

I just watched the videos.

Hmm... it seems that the engine would focus on Tekken/Soul Calibur way of fighting games rather than traditional 2D style.

Interesting, but I am no good at 3D modeling in terms of actual human models instead of machinery.

But if they include support from other modeling software like Daz Studio, then I think I can try my luck.

Actually it said on the original article that there's a character that conforms to 2D. Or something similar like that. I know I saw it because I just read it. But 2D ONLY plane where the fighters, fight is possible with this engine. So it can easily be a 3D version of Mugen. Meaning 3D models on a 2D plane. I guarantee we can go quite similar or even identical to the new Guilty Gear. After all if 2D interaction is already possible this early, who knows what will be possible once it has been in development for 2-3 years or longer. This thing is just starting off.

EDIT: Also completely off topic but since it was mentioned I'll ask it here anyway. Someone was talking about Elecbyte, mugen, and online play as if Elecbyte are even active again. Unless I'm mistaken didn't Elecbyte DIE yet again? I mean I haven't seen any major news on mugen forums about Mugen 1.1.

EDIT2: Ok my bad. They are just extremely silent. Mugen 1.1 has had a public release. Carry on....

Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 12:23:58 am by xPreatorianx1