Too many CLSN cause lag, i suggest reading K.O.D's CLSN tut.
http://kod.sitesled.com/K.O.D%27s%20Basic%20CLSN%20Tutorial.html
He's free to use it that way if he wants, there is no rule.Too many CLSN cause lag, i suggest reading K.O.D's CLSN tut.
http://kod.sitesled.com/K.O.D%27s%20Basic%20CLSN%20Tutorial.html
Heh heh, personally, people should be allowed to use more than what you and the rest of the elites here say for fact is right.
The too many CLSN rule is quite stupid, and whats even more dumb is that far too many people follow it!
More CLSN's that are correctly placed means better hit accuracy(As in said attacks from the foe will actually hit the character instead of simply thin air.), which is probably what Ryon is aiming for.1 CLSN can cover that Hadouken, and it would have the same(probably better) hit accuracy as 5. --;
I simply think some of you overblow this CLSN issue way out of proportion.So, theres an issue, and it needs to be solved.
Also "Too many CLSN cause lag"[/color]
More CLSN's that are correctly placed means better hit accuracy(As in said attacks from the foe will actually hit the character instead of simply thin air.), which is probably what Ryon is aiming for.Sigh.
Don't be too detailed with your collision boxes. The point is not to make a pixel-accurate representation of the character, but to make one that is game-friendly. For example, boxes for your character on the ground should have Clsn2 boxes that span the space between both legs. In this case, too much detail is actually undesirable.
Here is a picture of a one that is too detailed. You want to avoid this
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2829/airvw3gq7.gif)
This next one has a better set. Not only does it take less effort to create, but it better approximates the movement of the character over time. Also, there is less chance that a Clsn1 box from an attack would slip through a gap.
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/739/airvw4gt8.gif)
i've seen those pictures ages ago Cyan.
and you know what? some characters DO attack other characters from below, for instances Buu from Hyper Dimension, he has an attack where he puts his leg in the ground and it appears below the characters feet.
now if i had 1 solid clsn box he would hit bit, but if i had a more precise one, he wouldnt hit me, which would be more accurate to real life, than to hit me between the legs, MISS, and it still count.
and honestly now. some people make characters with a BUNCH of CLSN boxes, i only have like ... maybe 10 maxed for detailed moves. but for others max at 4 clsn2, and like 4 clsn1.
also the hadouken is high res, so i couldnt really do the clsn boxes to well since it was all guessing.
Now I have the last word.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a263/PotSrox/clsnevolution.png)
I think I'm getting dumber. :(
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a263/PotSrox/clsnevolution.png)
I think I'm getting dumber. :(
i've seen those pictures ages ago Cyan.Although I agree with your point I'd say the thing is this, however you choose to organize the CLSNs that foot (Buu's Fot/Kick) you're talking about, won't be guaranteed to go in between the legs of its opponent all the time because of their sprites. As a matter of fact, you probably have a 1 in 30 chance (guesstimate) of having a char whose sprites are actually appropriate for that foot to miss.
and you know what? some characters DO attack other characters from below, for instances Buu from Hyper Dimension, he has an attack where he puts his leg in the ground and it appears below the characters feet.
now if i had 1 solid clsn box he would hit bit, but if i had a more precise one, he wouldnt hit me, which would be more accurate to real life, than to hit me between the legs, MISS, and it still count.
and honestly now. some people make characters with a BUNCH of CLSN boxes, i only have like ... maybe 10 maxed for detailed moves. but for others max at 4 clsn2, and like 4 clsn1.
also the hadouken is high res, so i couldnt really do the clsn boxes to well since it was all guessing.
Christ. For Nako in the end I'd probably add in a CLSN Collision over the little red peeping out. ;DSpoiler, click to toggle visibiltyI think I'm getting dumber. :(
i cant stand that honestly unless its a Chibi character i will never put 2 boxes for a character. it bothers me if i see i can add 1 more box and give him a more semi accurate feeling. (to real life)
circular priority and giving advantage to proper zoning, but that's a different matter.Yeah, I know it's a different issue. I just thought it would be kind of interesting to post.
Wow, you guys just don't get it.- Focusing in on having legs planted either wide or close together (that's the only time I consider multiple sprites in an area reasonable) -
You guys have no idea what 'accurate' is. Go to a CLSN viewer for any fucking 2D fighting game there is and you won't see 8 CLSN2s and 12 CLSN1s just because the character is doing some sidekick.
It's not just what Elecbyte says, every single good 2D fighter (notably KOF) has these kind of CLSNs. About 1 to 2 CLSN1s and 1 to 3 CLSN2s will always make the cut. Conveniently, it is very easy to look at KOF CLSNs, why don't you guys find out how and take a look for yourselves?
The point is not to have a pixel-accurate representation of the character. The point is so your character can work efficiently without missing when he's supposed to hit, or magically breaking out of combos because of some dumbed down CLSN2.
I mean hey, feel free to make it your own way. It's just going to play like shit.
Wow, you guys just don't get it.
You guys have no idea what 'accurate' is. Go to a CLSN viewer for any fucking 2D fighting game there is and you won't see 8 CLSN2s and 12 CLSN1s just because the character is doing some sidekick.
It's not just what Elecbyte says, every single good 2D fighter (notably KOF) has these kind of CLSNs. About 1 to 2 CLSN1s and 1 to 3 CLSN2s will always make the cut. Conveniently, it is very easy to look at KOF CLSNs, why don't you guys find out how and take a look for yourselves?
The point is not to have a pixel-accurate representation of the character. The point is so your character can work efficiently without missing when he's supposed to hit, or magically breaking out of combos because of some dumbed down CLSN2.
I mean hey, feel free to make it your own way. It's just going to play like shit.
If a normal sized character is breaking out of combos due to CLSN problems, then the attacker's hitdef needs an immediate revision!
If a normal sized character is breaking out of combos due to CLSN problems, then the attacker's hitdef needs an immediate revision!
No, Kira, this CLSN rule and the accuracy to the source game(Purism) is what is retarded.
You know, I don't think I've even seen more than one Clsn1 being used in a game yet.
Me against the world? I really didn't intend for that to happen, but it seems my views are different than what the majority of you think. Personally, I believe that 5-10 CLSN per frame is not nearly as bad as a number of people make it out to be.
If a normal sized character is breaking out of combos due to CLSN problems, then the attacker's hitdef needs an immediate revision!Ahem, no. The hitdef would have nothing to do with the character missing in this situation. It'd be because both of the parties involved have not taken movement over time into account.
i've seen those pictures ages ago Cyan.
and you know what? some characters DO attack other characters from below, for instances Buu from Hyper Dimension, he has an attack where he puts his leg in the ground and it appears below the characters feet.
now if i had 1 solid clsn box he would hit bit, but if i had a more precise one, he wouldnt hit me, which would be more accurate to real life, than to hit me between the legs, MISS, and it still count.
I didn't say that 2-3 are bad, I'm saying that anything above that isn't overly bad and quite a few of you say it is.
Yuck :gonk:Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Who the heck had the time to do that??up to 41 CLSN boxes for a sprite, with no CLSNdefault... I think we have a new record !!! :sugoi:Spoiler, click to toggle visibiltyBut yeah, with an AIR file which is 303kb for a character having 4 moves, what did you expect ?
up to 41 CLSN boxes for a sprite, with no CLSNdefault... I think we have a new record !!! :sugoi:
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2464/animetenchoml4.png)
But yeah, with an AIR file which is 303kb for a character having 4 moves, what did you expect ?
That is very pretty.That's actually part of the problem here, I think. People worry about whether the CLSNs look good in relation to the sprite rather than thinking about how they would work in gameplay.
Ha, I like the "SIMPLE CLSNS = LAZINESS" argument. Where do you come up with this stuff?That is very pretty.That's actually part of the problem here, I think. People worry about whether the CLSNs look good in relation to the sprite rather than thinking about how they would work in gameplay.
Bah, the best reason for less +bulky clsns are for gameplay purposes.
An example. Ryu needs one hitbox for his standing animation.
This goes around his head making it easy to hit the thin air in front and behind his face.
Now physically it would be impossible.
Now let's take a jumping MK from Ryu as well. It's hitbox extends really far back and under his kicking leg. When Ryu jumps over Ryu at the right distance the back of the hitbox can connect with the "thin air" creating a cross up.
That "should also be impossible". But is a very useful gameplay element. I suppose if you wish to remove neat gameplay elements like that you can throw a lot of clsns that only cover the sprite. But that does not sound very fun to play with and makes it tougher to hit with things that would normally hit it.
Hey guys I found something.Doujin games = don't count. 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQVUmi6sW2o
Ok, I'll admit that I didn't read this entire thread, but has anyone considered the possibility that larger simpler CLSN boxes can help to compensate for frames of implied animation?
What I am saying is imagine a 4 frame animation where someone is doing a fieldgoal kick. Each frame has multiple ticks that imply a frame of animation, otherwise each sprite would be shown for a max of 1 tick (smallest possible unit of time in mugen) and there would need to be WELL over 4 sprites in the animation. The movement between the frames is implied as only 4 frames is needed to imply it. The larger CLSN boxes can compendate for the implication of where a limb should be during the animation. I understand that this may be a bit difficult to but into words, but if visuals are needed, I can post that later.
[/thread], but not for good reasons.
If a normal sized character is breaking out of combos due to CLSN problems, then the attacker's hitdef needs an immediate revision!
If this is real, they really look ugly.There's really no complaints to do about SF3's hit detection though, so they did them right. Capcom did CvS after SF3 and it uses old style boxes, so I think the extra detail is used just because of the insane animation, like they were making a 2D game in 3D even before SF4. It's not something you want/need for choppier animations.
And now, Mugen creators can make shitty boxes, and call them "SF3 style hitboxes". :ninja: --;Yeah I was afraid of that. :sugoi:
There's really no complaints to do about SF3's hit detection though, so they did them right. Capcom did CvS after SF3 and it uses old style boxes, so I think the extra detail is used just because of the insane animation, like they were making a 2D game in 3D even before SF4. It's not something you want/need for choppier animations.I understand your point about insane animations (Elena is moving all around the place during her stance for example), but why are there holes between the hitboxes ? I know no attack has CLSNs thin enough to go through these gaps, but still. There was no need to use so many hitboxes on the attacks either, and they don't always match the sprites correctly IMO.
And that's not the first time I've seen Capcom use hitboxes with holes between them. Considering that no attack in the game can possibly fit between two hitboxes, if the recoil animation a character should do is decided by which hitbox was hit, having the spaces between them is actually better.Indeed, they did the same in Vampire Hunter/Nightwarriors.
Just hooked up Super Turbo HD to check. (Built in hitbox viewer FTW!) It seems even Street Fighter 2 has holes between hitboxes too, at least for the shotos.And that's not the first time I've seen Capcom use hitboxes with holes between them. Considering that no attack in the game can possibly fit between two hitboxes, if the recoil animation a character should do is decided by which hitbox was hit, having the spaces between them is actually better.Indeed, they did the same in Vampire Hunter/Nightwarriors.
And Ryu's jumping punch at 0:30 having the hitbox under his leg confuses me even more.The overhead attack (MP+MK for everyone) seems to have that for everyone, it was brought up a couple of times some posts above by PotS and myself. Go figure why.
Also, at about 0:55 in the first vid, when Elena is launched up by the Shoryuken, her hitboxes are noticeably above her. Could anyone please tell me the reasoning for that?It's just an issue with vertical scrolling and the current version of the mod, should be fixed as he goes.
In the case of the UOH I'm pretty sure it's to make them hit crouchers more effectively but suck at beating anything else (RPS go!).That's almost certainly the reason. I've noticed in my studies of SF2 hitboxes that many jumping attacks have lower hitboxes than the sprite implies. Since jumping attacks negate crouch block, they should naturally be able to reach a crouching opponent.
SF3 and its silky smooth animation breaking all conventions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KimKJCjfPFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA18jodKPFs
(http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=218323)
Though notice how even with all the extra detail on them they still often don't match the sprites for gameplay purposes (e.g. univeral overheads). SF4's probably look like this as well.
The overhead attack (MP+MK for everyone) seems to have that for everyone, it was brought up a couple of times some posts above by PotS and myself. Go figure why.
But since its Capcom, its okay.Yeah like read the topic it's not okay. Capcom's habit toward collision boxes has been pointed out before, with SF2. Besides, if there actually is a standard and a justification, it's a little more okay, and most of the time on Mugen, this is not the case, it's only someone who has no idea what he's doing.
We're following SNKWe are :idea:? People making SNK characters use SNK style, people doing Capcom chars use Capcom style, and so on until you reach the people who just click auto Clsn.
people doing Capcom chars use Capcom styleThen again there are much less tools to get Capcom's Clsns than SNK's. How many games are able to display them, and how many people use them ? They're much less frequent than with SNK.
yes it is what?CLSN2 covering CLSN1 completely. It's what KFM does, and it works for me.
be more specific
The throw thing. Only if the character doing the throwing is coded like shit. Throws normally work on bodydist, you wouldn't normally increase that during an attack, edgewidth maybe, not body width, that's very unlikely.
KoF generally includes clsn2 within it's clsn1, but it's not as stringent as KFM. You can get away with up to 10 pixels extending beyond the clsn2. It's not at all recommended to leave them out altogether though. Motion over time. Thats way the clsn1 isn't just a box on the tip of the fist.
Simul mode should be removed, seriously.As much as I agree, this problem wouldn't occur if the CLSN wasn't Xbox huge. :V
Simul already lets you infinite just with stationary jabs, who cares if something else turns out broken when nothing can top that.I'd link to your old avatar if I could. That bug in the video is still retarded. Also, what.
Simul already lets you infinite just with stationary jabs, who cares if something else turns out broken when nothing can top that.
And Ilu, I can barely see shit in that video. You also need to keep in mind that SS has weapon clash implemented.
lol, brushing off bugs~!Hey I actually do simul codes instead of blaming stuff on it every other thread, just saying people shouldn't lose their sleep over an inherently broken mode.
Here is some Samurai Shodown CLSN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sqgGI-8160
Look how the CLSN aren't scaled with the zoom
As for the weapon thing, it's really an open question which is debatable IMO. If I were to make custom CLSNs for a sword attack, they'd go like this :That's a random made up Clsn since Haohmaru's pokes all lose pretty easily there, the sword gives him range not priority. So yeah.
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3033/aaacopy.png (http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3033/aaacopy.png)
I'd extend the blue CLSN a bit more than what it should be, to make things a little more fair, but still not making the weapon hittable. Of course,that's just me.
Exactly, although the term "fair" is not really achievable in the open world which is Mugen, as we all know.
CLSNs could look like utter shit and be totally unrealistic, they would be okay if they achieve what they're meant for, for a particular game mechanic (the RB2 example with Duck comes to mind).
You can't please everybody when making a character for Mugen, since it will always clash at one point with other chars. As for the weapon thing, it's really an open question which is debatable IMO. If I were to make custom CLSNs for a sword attack, they'd go like this :
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3033/aaacopy.png (http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3033/aaacopy.png)
I'd extend the blue CLSN a bit more than what it should be, to make things a little more fair, but still not making the weapon hittable. Of course,that's just me.
Relevant, I guess (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSJS-PlVh_k&feature=player_embedded)
and btw, why/how should something unreal make sense?I have a better question for you ! Why should they not ? What do you care if people care about it ?
Because the fact that they do impossible things doesn't change the fact that laws of Physics should still apply.
and btw, why/how should something unreal make sense?I have a better question for you ! Why should they not ? What do you care if people care about it ?
weapons being hittable or not is entirely up to the coder. realism and balance is irrelevant
OW YOU HIT MY STICK THAT HURTS is absolutely retarded.