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Challenge (not) accepted! (Read 905 times)

Started by KatsupSpecial, September 04, 2021, 01:47:57 AM
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Poll

Who makes the hardest characters to fight against? (NON-CHEAP)

Kaz
13 (68.4%)
Kotori
0 (0%)
OHMSBY
1 (5.3%)
The_None
3 (15.8%)
Ikaruga
2 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Challenge (not) accepted!
#1  September 04, 2021, 01:47:57 AM
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For me, I'd say OHMSBY, just because of the fact that his chars have most of their attacks always OTG. Which of course leads into a scenario where most of the match is a one-sided beatdown comparable to Muhammad Ali's knockout punch on Joe Frazier.

And Kaz is Kaz. If you know, you know.
Apparently you can taste your own spinal fluid.... I hope Rudy Tomjanovich tasted applesauce down there...
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#2  September 04, 2021, 03:53:48 AM
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According to some Player vs AI users, KAZ's characters are harder to fight comparing to OHMSBY and The_None. Even with their AI patches by Holn.

Oh, and just look at his SF2 Dhalsim and SF3 Akuma, his grab command is more broken lol.
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#3  September 04, 2021, 04:57:11 AM
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According to some Player vs AI users, KAZ's characters are harder to fight comparing to OHMSBY and The_None. Even with their AI patches by Holn.

Oh, and just look at his SF2 Dhalsim and SF3 Akuma, his grab command is more broken lol.

That's the thing, Kaz's characters might as well be cheap, but I wanted to see if people had problems with OHMSBY's aggressive AS FUCK AI. Especially his Heart Aino. I swear she has an infinite... I've watched her AI mop the floor with various AI patches...
Apparently you can taste your own spinal fluid.... I hope Rudy Tomjanovich tasted applesauce down there...
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#4  September 04, 2021, 05:04:56 AM
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Want some brutal AI chars? Take a look at Muteki's Guilty Gear chars, their AI was made as you play the games in Nightmare level, even some creators made AI to nerf them specifically.

I know more names, but I don't remember them this time, maybe soon I post you more
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#5  September 04, 2021, 05:47:18 AM
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According to some Player vs AI users, KAZ's characters are harder to fight comparing to OHMSBY and The_None. Even with their AI patches by Holn.

Oh, and just look at his SF2 Dhalsim and SF3 Akuma, his grab command is more broken lol.

That's the thing, Kaz's characters might as well be cheap, but I wanted to see if people had problems with OHMSBY's aggressive AS FUCK AI. Especially his Heart Aino. I swear she has an infinite... I've watched her AI mop the floor with various AI patches...

Not me. Would link my own example, but someone has a better example that love is dumb
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#6  September 04, 2021, 05:59:14 AM
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[...]but I wanted to see if people had problems with OHMSBY's aggressive AS FUCK AI.
The AI is predictable enough to be countered if you know what you're doing... but then OHMSBY started cramming a million and one comeback mechanics into their stuff. I just didn't update them since.

But I digress. Hell do I know? I've only got Shantae.
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#7  September 04, 2021, 06:49:07 AM
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According to some Player vs AI users, KAZ's characters are harder to fight comparing to OHMSBY and The_None. Even with their AI patches by Holn.

Oh, and just look at his SF2 Dhalsim and SF3 Akuma, his grab command is more broken lol.

That's the thing, Kaz's characters might as well be cheap, but I wanted to see if people had problems with OHMSBY's aggressive AS FUCK AI. Especially his Heart Aino. I swear she has an infinite... I've watched her AI mop the floor with various AI patches...

If I recall, usually the AI is made by Holn, and may or may not be mostly for SpriteClub and the like.
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#8  September 04, 2021, 06:51:21 AM
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As the one guy that loves Kaz's shotos, him easily. The_None is hard but fair, never tried anything by the other 3, but Kaz is Cheap A.I.
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#9  September 04, 2021, 09:34:12 AM
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 As someone who has had their characters AI patched by Holn on a few occasions, I can assure you that Holn's AI does break the characters to an extent and it seems to break them more the higher you set the AI difficulty in the CMD.
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#10  September 04, 2021, 04:22:07 PM
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I.... think I just humiliated myself in front of the entire MUGEN community....
Apparently you can taste your own spinal fluid.... I hope Rudy Tomjanovich tasted applesauce down there...
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#11  September 04, 2021, 05:45:06 PM
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Not really. If a semi-competent A.I. is difficult to fight compared to other A.I.s, then it's likely the tools given to the A.I. by the character that's providing the challenge. For example, if a character has a frame 9 move that covers almost the entire width of the screen and the A.I. abuses the hell out of it, then that's down to the character itself, as I imagine a human player would probably do the same thing for as long as it continues to work. Being an A.I. though, if you can find an exploit to abuse, abuse it; a common one is that they fall prey to lows on getup.

A lot of the more extreme anime styles have a sizeable advantage over more "traditional" characters anyway. Not necessarily in terms of raw damage, but more so frame data, hitboxes, combo damage, meter gain, and beneficial system mechanics.

Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.
Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#12  September 05, 2021, 03:41:45 AM
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Re: Challenge (not) accepted!
#13  September 05, 2021, 03:58:36 AM
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I will have to go with Kaz in this one, I remember this one Morrigan was pretty much near TAS level and I could never find a single exploit with the characters in my roster that worked reliably. I have downloaded 2 OHMBSY characters for my roster and the challenge comes from mostly finding what moves you can intercept and how to make them use unsafe moves (Iirc for Heart Aino stay alert for the overhead, for Wagner wait/bait for the dive move and punish with your best combo while staying alert for grabs), and The_None characters might seem to have unpredictable AI, but they also tend to use high risk/high reward moves that leave them unsafe, allowing you to convert, examples: Dee Bee Kaw's maherl bomb, his own bear trap; Segalow with the sucker punch if he doesn't cancel into Dead Ringer; Thanos tends to end several chains with Titan Crush, goes for Mind Gem a lot; Magic Geese leaves himself open with his Krizalid morph move and a few others, but you have to watch for the counter super he can cancel into if he has meter.
Yeaaaah im shootign ducks wiht the paino