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Fix all your command issues with the EXPLODsive Buffering system! (Read 284887 times)

Started by Jmorphman, August 03, 2017, 09:52:01 pm
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Jmorphman

Re: Fix all your command issues with the EXPLODsive Buffering system!
#21  March 09, 2022, 03:55:58 am
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We have indeed paused active development on this years ago (outside of a few small bug fixes), for various reasons (IKEMEN being the foremost one); we almost certainly would've switched over to using a variable-based system once the cond exploit that allows for instant setting and retrieval of variables by any player to any other player had been discovered. We just really did lose motivation in maintaining and upgrading a system that would soon be made completely obsolete, though we were happy to do some quick fixes to keep it working as a stopgap until then.

In addition to addressing the issue with buffering during hit/super pause, we also planned to add support for command flipping/reversing (this is actually fully implemented in my characters and in the official system code, we just never bothered to document it because of the aforementioned reasons).

PotS said, March 08, 2022, 10:26:45 pm
- The big one: during hitpause, this system does not care if you input a button or a motion first. This means, with Ken for instance, if you do HP, HP, QCF in that specific order, he will still cancel the HP into Hadouken. This is probably an issue with every buffer that reads directions and buttons separately because Vans's does the same thing
We opted to separate button inputs from the directional ones to make adoption of the system easier and to also help reduce the number of explods being generated at once; while this did produce this unintended quirk, we think it's not so serious that it requires modifying the system further (in the hypothetical scenario that we even wanted to make another update).

PotS said, March 08, 2022, 10:26:45 pm
- You should add something that conditionally resets button inputs in state 52. As it stands, every jump in becomes an option select because if you jump and do a DP motion, the character will do a jumping normal. If that hits, good, if it misses it will do the DP instead
This behavior is consistent with commercial games; our buttons are a bit more lenient with regards to command times, so it's a bit easier to notice. Ultimately, however, we believe that it's not so lenient that it's gamebreaking; any character would have to be so low to the ground to get the option select that it's very unlikely their air normal would ever connect.

PotS said, March 08, 2022, 10:26:45 pm
- Most people won't care about this, but I think relying on explods for inputs and still using particle effects in the character is playing with fire. Too many effects on screen, and the character stops working (remember simul allows 4 characters)

And that's it.
Back when we were developing this, we did extensive tests on the amount of explods the system generates, and were relieved to find that it was honestly a relatively small amount: even with 2 characters with the system installed, each player randomly mashing keys, would produce barely around 100 explods (I think. I don't remember the exact number, only that it was far, far, far less than the default explodmax). Normal play of a character would produce far, far less explods than the mashing (it should also be noted that a human player is required to generate the explods in the first place), and so we felt comfortable that even 2v2 simul would be unlikely to approach explodmax in all but the most over the top and FX-heavy characters—neither of which we had much dealings with, and the authors of whom were unlikely to adopt our system anyway.

PotS

Re: Fix all your command issues with the EXPLODsive Buffering system!
#22  March 09, 2022, 06:58:50 pm
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Fair enough. I ran into some of the same issues when fooling around with a buffer system, and thought that feedback would be better off out there than inside my head.

Jmorphman said, March 09, 2022, 03:55:58 am
This behavior is consistent with commercial games; our buttons are a bit more lenient with regards to command times, so it's a bit easier to notice. Ultimately, however, we believe that it's not so lenient that it's gamebreaking; any character would have to be so low to the ground to get the option select that it's very unlikely their air normal would ever connect.
I guess it's not such a big deal because you can do that same option select without any buffer systems. It just feels fundamentally wrong to have two moves come out from one button press.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.

Jmorphman

Re: Fix all your command issues with the EXPLODsive Buffering system!
#23  March 10, 2022, 01:31:51 am
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PotS said, March 09, 2022, 06:58:50 pm
Fair enough. I ran into some of the same issues when fooling around with a buffer system, and thought that feedback would be better off out there than inside my head.
Absolutely! JNP and I have been remiss in not discussing any on this in this thread, we're both too used to talking about this stuff on Discord, which is not a great place to store valuable information in a way that is easily accessible later.

PotS said, March 09, 2022, 06:58:50 pm
This behavior is consistent with commercial games; our buttons are a bit more lenient with regards to command times, so it's a bit easier to notice. Ultimately, however, we believe that it's not so lenient that it's gamebreaking; any character would have to be so low to the ground to get the option select that it's very unlikely their air normal would ever connect.
I've previously toyed with having button presses reset whenever an individual move is initiated, but much like everything else here, I'm gonna leave that as a topic to experiment with in IKEMEN.

harry7mason

Re: Fix all your command issues with the EXPLODsive Buffering system!
#24  June 01, 2022, 09:44:05 pm
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Jmorphman said, March 09, 2022, 03:55:58 am
We have indeed paused active development on this years ago (outside of a few small bug fixes), for various reasons (IKEMEN being the foremost one); we almost certainly would've switched over to using a variable-based system once the cond exploit that allows for instant setting and retrieval of variables by any player to any other player had been discovered. We just really did lose motivation in maintaining and upgrading a system that would soon be made completely obsolete, though we were happy to do some quick fixes to keep it working as a stopgap until then.
Hello Jmorphman.
I have two questions, The first is if you recommend to use your system this days or is not necessary anymore in IKEMEN? I'm moving to Ikemen go and I don't know what to do about the EXPLODsive buffering system.
The second is how you do to change everyday your portrait for a different member of the Justice League International?

Well, thanks for your time.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat

Jmorphman

Re: Fix all your command issues with the EXPLODsive Buffering system!
#25  June 02, 2022, 04:09:30 am
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harry7mason said, June 01, 2022, 09:44:05 pm
I have two questions, The first is if you recommend to use your system this days or is not necessary anymore in IKEMEN? I'm moving to Ikemen go and I don't know what to do about the EXPLODsive buffering system.
I am not even close to being an expert in matters relating to IKEMEN, but AFAIK, there are major input parser changes planned that will obviate the need for any buffering system. There is also newer buffering system that was created for IKEMEN called Turtlewax, developed by Kamekaze and JNP. I don't really know any details about that, though.

harry7mason said, June 01, 2022, 09:44:05 pm
The second is how you do to change everyday your portrait for a different member of the Justice League International?

Well, thanks for your time.
I use this website: https://www.randimg.net/

that reminds me, it's probably time to change things up. maybe go back to Jerri Blank or something
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