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Supreme Sagat BETA 2.1 FIX 15 December NEW PAG.14 T.THRUSTS+ COUNTER SUPER (Read 338281 times)

Started by M206, June 26, 2017, 05:49:35 pm
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warecus

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW TIGER VARIED ASSAULT (ADON) VIDEO PAG.9
#181  October 13, 2017, 02:16:43 am
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Really cool great work

M206

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW TIGER VARIED ASSAULT (ADON) VIDEO PAG.9
#182  October 16, 2017, 11:15:15 am
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Trololo said, October 12, 2017, 03:51:24 pm
Hey, it's actually looking good!
But  I want to remind you, that this super is called "VARIED" for a reason. Try to think about some nice and unique ending transitions... But I'd still suggest you to keep close to a system "THE FIRST ONE is weaker on clear damage, BUT great for cutting out a blocked super into good block damage and safe positioning, and THE SECOND ONE is definitely not for blocked super, but hits harder when it's all about clear hitting on enemy".
Good luck.

thanks. i think i'll go for a lev.3 super, since i found out it's not too difficult to create a different ending transitions, so it's worth to a lev.3 super. i think i'll go with 6 different ones, x,y,z,a,b,c. ;) ;)

electrocaid said, October 12, 2017, 03:36:34 pm
Adon's attack!
Awesome!!!!

thanks! :)

warecus said, October 13, 2017, 02:16:43 am
Really cool great work

thanks! :)

during TVA (tiger varied assault), my ideas right now are:

lp: thousand tiger
mp: air throw
hp: max air t cannon 30°

lk: still thinking
mk: still thinking
hk: tiger assassin (EX tiger knee with 3 hit)

stay tuned;) ;)

M206

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW TIGER VARIED ASSAULT (ADON) VIDEO PAG.9
#183  October 17, 2017, 09:55:16 am
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ok, i've managed to create a new T.V.A. endings (thanks to trololo adon's Jaguar avalanche).

now after the T.V.A. you have 5+1options:

1-lp: thousand tiger
2-mp: air throw
3-hp: max air t cannon 30°

4-lk: tiger assassin (EX tiger knee with 3 hit)
5-mk: tiger air rush -> 5+1mk final hit tiger avalanche
6-hk: still thinking

here you are a showcase (as always lot of fixex still needed, especially with sounds :D ):



warecus

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#184  October 17, 2017, 10:23:52 am
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looks cool so far

Trololo

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#185  October 17, 2017, 11:53:46 am
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Yes, it looks really nice... But you kinda lost the sense of super.
You see, that leap Normal J.V.A. ended with WAS, in fact, the THIRD OPTION. While you could press "P" or press "K" to alter it, you could press no button to end it properly. Such trait is most noticeable in SSF4, where two extra options worked in the same way, but NORMAL end dropped enemy into a wall to make him wall-bounce for an extra juggle. 3 options- 3 effects.
You're instead doing most of your new options breaking out of the ALREADY option. And I don't think that's somehow correct...
Besides, while they're looking great, they feel the same. Adon has 3 options, but he has 3 UNIQUE options, that gives him a UNIQUE advantage for UNIQUE situations.
-Normal Leap in SSF4, like I said, did a wall-bounce. Such trait is a good friend for extra damage via juggle on falling enemy.
-Jaguar Assassin is a move you want to FINISH on if J.V.A. WAS successful. While it had the biggest damage out of 3 options, it's really dangerous to pull a rising move on blocking enemy or if any hit did whiff, because such moves are almost always HARSHLY punished, and this one isn't different. If you super was a complete success- press "K" to finish it off with extra damage.
-Thousand Jaguar is, on the other hand, is move about SAFETY. Its damage is lower than in Normal Option, but this move can push your enemy far away from you while leaving you on the ground. It's also can do a decent chip damage on blocking the enemy, what turns THIS option a perfect breaker from UNsuccessful J.V.A.
So, yeah... I can see no unique function in your new V.A. endings. They look good but does no special effect on the enemy.  AND you're paying nothing for them either, they are ALL always successful, ALL safe and ALL have good damage. That's no good, pal. When people will find out, that the strongest and safest of ends is Tiger Cannon, people just won't have any reason to use the different ones, that's for sure.
I'm not telling you to quit your attempts on new ends. I just want you to realize, how tactical can J.V.A. be, so please: think better about them, OK?

M206

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#186  October 17, 2017, 02:11:44 pm
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Trololo said, October 17, 2017, 11:53:46 am
Yes, it looks really nice... But you kinda lost the sense of super.
You see, that leap Normal J.V.A. ended with WAS, in fact, the THIRD OPTION. While you could press "P" or press "K" to alter it, you could press no button to end it properly. Such trait is most noticeable in SSF4, where two extra options worked in the same way, but NORMAL end dropped enemy into a wall to make him wall-bounce for an extra juggle. 3 options- 3 effects.
You're instead doing most of your new options breaking out of the ALREADY option. And I don't think that's somehow correct...
Besides, while they're looking great, they feel the same. Adon has 3 options, but he has 3 UNIQUE options, that gives him a UNIQUE advantage for UNIQUE situations.
-Normal Leap in SSF4, like I said, did a wall-bounce. Such trait is a good friend for extra damage via juggle on falling enemy.
-Jaguar Assassin is a move you want to FINISH on if J.V.A. WAS successful. While it had the biggest damage out of 3 options, it's really dangerous to pull a rising move on blocking enemy or if any hit did whiff, because such moves are almost always HARSHLY punished, and this one isn't different. If you super was a complete success- press "K" to finish it off with extra damage.
-Thousand Jaguar is, on the other hand, is move about SAFETY. Its damage is lower than in Normal Option, but this move can push your enemy far away from you while leaving you on the ground. It's also can do a decent chip damage on blocking the enemy, what turns THIS option a perfect breaker from UNsuccessful J.V.A.
So, yeah... I can see no unique function in your new V.A. endings. They look good but does no special effect on the enemy.  AND you're paying nothing for them either, they are ALL always successful, ALL safe and ALL have good damage. That's no good, pal. When people will find out, that the strongest and safest of ends is Tiger Cannon, people just won't have any reason to use the different ones, that's for sure.
I'm not telling you to quit your attempts on new ends. I just want you to realize, how tactical can J.V.A. be, so please: think better about them, OK?

well.. thanks. I was waiting for a reply like this. :)
One of my greatest limit are on gamepaly/balance, and you centered exactly the problem.. most of them feel the same or nearly the same.. so what suggestion could you give me to make them tactical in a better way? :) :)

Trololo

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#187  October 17, 2017, 04:29:08 pm
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Unfortunately, it's gonna be hard to extend a perfect 2-button system onto 6-button. So, yeah... It's easier for me to say what you should stay away from than what you should strive for.
-First of all, YOU DON'T NEED A FIREBALLS. They will AND push the enemy away, AND put Sagat into safe position quite fast AND may deal a load of damage both on block and contact. This is ridiculous- Sagat shall have a Right for Wrong Choice and Punishment for it.
-YOU DON'T NEED A STANDING GRABS. Why? Because they are unblockable by nature. Sure, it is possible to make a blockable throw, but that's gonna be ridiculous... Anyway, grab is gonna make this super simply unstoppable! Enemy blocked the whole super, and then you just grab him and deal too much of unpunishable damage, which will anyway lead SAGAT to be a winner of that clash.
But you could do like H' did with his Adon: when you press "P" when Adon does his LVL3 J.V.A., he will after his smashing into air fifth elbow leap and do a Jaguar Stab. This way you could easily create a new and KINDA good option: mild blockable leap-grab. Also, I suggest you to NOT let enemy bounce away from Sagat. Just slam onto the ground into Sagat's feet. In this way, an option could be AND punishable, AND having a unique option- leaving enemy close for you. I think it's good to control enemy's distance, especially if the character CAN put up a close fight.
-NO NEED FOR UNFAIR MOVES like, for example, Unexpected Trip. This won't give your Sagat any MEANINGFUL advantage, especially against AI, which can block definitely better, than the player can.
Well, all in all, the ONLY thing I TRULY suggest here is to put quantity away and increase a quality. Think about just 2 options, like Adon have. 2, but REALLY good options. I'd personally for Sagat used as block-pusher Gatling Kicks, and as risky-smasher Tiger Blow.

M206

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#188  October 18, 2017, 05:07:52 pm
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understood..thanks for your explanation..

do you have a link with all the 3 SSF4 adon options showed? :)

anyway, to partially fix some balances, i could add further power consumption to air tiger cannon, for example, or harden the timings of the command, or something like that.. just a thought..

I'll try to think how to go on with this..it's really hard for me to do.. :/ :/

anyway, in the meanwhile i've added some effects/new sprites at the lev.3 T.Avalanche:



do you like it?

maybe i'll could transform it into a standalone lev.3 super, and not like a T.V.A. final.. i'll think about that..

lui

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#189  October 18, 2017, 05:29:08 pm
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Doesn't he have enough supers already? I mean, tbh for me, he doesn't even feel like sagat anymore

ReduxMercenaryT

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#190  October 18, 2017, 08:58:19 pm
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Walruslui said, October 18, 2017, 05:29:08 pm
Doesn't he have enough supers already? I mean, tbh for me, he doesn't even feel like sagat anymore

Walruslui I would have raised the same issue if DivineWolf had not made a true to form Sagat. I'm willing to bet that if Sagat shows up in Street Fighter V he will not feel like himself. I believe M602 can take liberties with this character given the fact that Sagat is the "Emperor of Muay Thai." Therefore he is justified in borrowing moves from other muay thai fighters while putting his own spin to it. 
Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 09:12:31 pm by ReduxMercenaryT

lui

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#191  October 18, 2017, 09:13:38 pm
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..i never said he wasn't justified doing it? he can do whatever he wants. I just gave my opinion

warecus

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#192  October 19, 2017, 03:12:35 am
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I love all the options until he does a yoga flame lol...but great work so far...I hope he gets more custom stuff not just related to moves...like the stances and walks he has been getting. .maybe some more wins and intros idk

M206

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#193  October 20, 2017, 07:55:01 am
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Walruslui said, October 18, 2017, 05:29:08 pm
Doesn't he have enough supers already? I mean, tbh for me, he doesn't even feel like sagat anymore

it's just for fun, i'd love to create new supers, inspired from other thai fighters. ;) anyway you can always avoid to use that super if you don't like it. ;)

ReduxMercenaryT said, October 18, 2017, 08:58:19 pm
Walruslui said, October 18, 2017, 05:29:08 pm
Doesn't he have enough supers already? I mean, tbh for me, he doesn't even feel like sagat anymore

Walruslui I would have raised the same issue if DivineWolf had not made a true to form Sagat. I'm willing to bet that if Sagat shows up in Street Fighter V he will not feel like himself. I believe M602 can take liberties with this character given the fact that Sagat is the "Emperor of Muay Thai." Therefore he is justified in borrowing moves from other muay thai fighters while putting his own spin to it. 

thanks, it's exact what i think too. ever since the first evil ryu come out that i was hoping that someday someone would have made a sagat like that, so now i'm doing it by myself. ;)


Walruslui said, October 18, 2017, 09:13:38 pm
..i never said he wasn't justified doing it? he can do whatever he wants. I just gave my opinion

don't worry no problem, every opinion is welcome. ;) ;)

warecus said, October 19, 2017, 03:12:35 am
I love all the options until he does a yoga flame lol...but great work so far...I hope he gets more custom stuff not just related to moves...like the stances and walks he has been getting. .maybe some more wins and intros idk

:D :D :D :D ok ok i'll avoid to add a yoga flame. :D :D :D yeah, i'm thinking to add a new win pose, just like the muay thai man one, but there are a lot of sprites to edit.. :/ :/ :/

anyway in the meanwhile, i've edited the strong crouch kick from adon:



here you are the sagat standard one:



i'm not sure which one to keep as standard crouch kick and which one to be used only after certain combo.. :/ :/

what do you think?

M206

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#194  October 20, 2017, 09:55:49 am
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new strong "hop" punch, inspired from several muay thai matchs i've seen:



i really love the result.

:) :)

and here you are the gif:

Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 12:07:59 pm by M206

Trololo

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#195  October 20, 2017, 12:19:11 pm
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Heh. Now THAT's the move for Sagat. Kradot Chok (Cobra Punch, Superman Punch) is indeed Muay Thai Tech.
Try to give him come mix-ups with it after low kicks.

M206

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#196  October 20, 2017, 12:20:55 pm
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Trololo said, October 20, 2017, 12:19:11 pm
Heh. Now THAT's the move for Sagat. Kradot Chok (Cobra Punch, Superman Punch) is indeed Muay Thai Tech.
Try to give him come mix-ups with it after low kicks.

YEAH! Exactly my same thoughts about the mix-ups!! :) :) :)

warecus

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#197  October 20, 2017, 01:54:19 pm
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damn that was awesome...from the video...but I can't see the images you posted :(

M206

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#198  October 20, 2017, 04:35:51 pm
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thanks! :) i don't know why google photo doesn't show you the gif.. ????

here you are some S.punch mix-ups/finishers from other combos (in the end you'll see in action the new adon crouch kick too):



i've used some angledraw too in the hitting frames (very little).

:) :)

ReduxMercenaryT

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#199  October 20, 2017, 07:34:33 pm
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Beautiful execution. I can see Sagat doing the superman punch after a wall bounce from the leg bazooka.

warecus

Re: Sagat by M206 NEW T.V.A. ENDINGS VIDEO PAG.10
#200  October 21, 2017, 11:48:20 am
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marvelous
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