Gato- [Public beta] (Read 3629 times)

Started by Bannana, May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 AM
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Gato- [Public beta]
#1  May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 AM
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Spoiler: extra images (click to see content)

YEAH It's Gato AGAIN, I know; but, new system, new look, new moves. Total beta, so any feedback would be welcome. Tweaks to damage and heat scaling won't really be undertaken until I have a few more characters done. Probably more FX on the way, I dunno.

Unlike the last Gato, which is much more like MotW+, this is a totally "new" thing based somewhat upon mechanics from Wild Ambition+other Real Bout stuff. For more than a cursory explanation of the system info, check out the project thread, which I'll be updating as time goes on.

A - Punch
B - Kick
C - Strong
⮩ 6/4C - Redirect instead of a normal throw, characters have redirects that turn the opponent around and leave them open
D - Quick Sway taking the place of lanes are quick sway options, all of which has specific invul properties
⮩ 5D - Standing Dodge high invul
⮩ 2D - Hop dodge low invul
⮩ 6D - Forward Dodge fully invul after 6 frames

Break A special with two levels of power mapped to A and B, can be canceled early by breaking with AB
Rai-ga - DP A/B

Escalation Two different specials mapped to A and B respectively, upon entering escalation mode the properties of these change.
Air rekka - j.QCF A > D A
⮩ E. faster speed for D A rekka
Air throw - j.QCB B
⮩ E. Bounce on ground, faster land recovery animation

Heat A special mapped to C, when heat is full this move becomes an alternate overdrive version of itself.
Fuu-ga - QCB C (only hits downed opponent, launches) Free jump outside of heat, can be canceled with A/B/C

Heat OK
AB - Heat Blow reset your opponent to neutral during hitstun at the cost of very little damage
AB - Counter Heat Blow an all or nothing opportunity to put the opponent in a counter hit state and deal major damage
ABC - Escalation mode changes the properties of special moves, and how hittimes are calculated

Escalation Mode
AC - Feint cancels the current move, regardless of its cancel status
AAAC/AABC/ABBC chain routes

Heat fills during neutral--movement, whiffing, and so on. It fills based on your velocity; therefore, a faster character will gain heat faster.
Filling it up drops proration modifiers, giving full damage no matter what, allows for the overdrive form of the heat move, and the use of avoid during hitstun. At max heat escalation mode can be activated.

Upon successful Just Defend, a cardinal can be pressed, which allows for the player to set up options during the hit pause where they would otherwise be in block stun.

B-  dash
U - hop
F - dash

In addition this can be done during air JD, which gives otherwise unavailable options

F - Air dash
B - Air backdash
U - hop cancel
D - fastfall

In both situations Passing Bonus allows for special/super canceling the moment the recovery animation for the movement begins.

Cancel Chart
All moves that can cancel may be canceled into any move: normal, special, heat, etc.

5A - X
5B - O (contact)
5C - X

2A - O (contact)
2B - X
2C - X

j.A - X
j.B - X
j.C - X

5AB - O (hit)

j.2A - O (contact)

5A and 2A can be freely canceled into all ground B normals, respectively.

Chain Chart
As in Real Bout proper, chain combos are the name of the game, but appear in escalation mode only. Unlike Real Bout, only the standing punch and kick buttons are used to chain, with crouches and strong existing as possible chain enders, making the way the system works much closer to a simplified Ninja Master's. Chains are a series of three inputs made up of combinations of the standing A and B buttons, thus:


These may seem simple, BUT standard canceling rules also apply to them; thus, the generic AB cancel flow can be canceled from an AAA, so it's really not AAA but AAAB. moreover, because special cancel rules also apply, Gato's BA from the chart also works, so a BAAAB is possible inasmuch as you can connect the moves. Moves specific to chains benefit from a free x vel push, as in Real Bout, making them a handy way to close a distance that otherwise might require walking forward.

All of these have three possible ends to the routes. The first is canceling into a special move, as with any other normal; the second is a 2C, a free knockdown that can provide much needed oki options; the third, however, is of most interest, a 5C option that is determined by he preceding three moves in the chain.

The flow of the chain adds another layer to the cancel chart, making escalation mode an option just as viable as expending heat on an EX move.

Not on the site, get it here
Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 11:23:41 PM by Bannana
Re: Gato- [Public beta]
#2  May 05, 2021, 09:57:11 AM
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I like the slight difference in gameplay. But there are flaws.

1. The lack of hitpause or envshake makes moves kinda awkward, especially the Strong attack. The lack of hitpause also makes combo timing harder than it should be.
2. The last kick of Raiga doesn't connect normally (on stupa's Medium Training at least).
3. The damage definitely needs changing. Raiga's damage is through the roof compared to other specials and normals and EX Fuuga is especially insane (The Heat Scaling kinda helps balance combos but still). Damage Scaling outside of Heat's would definitely help.
4. Speaking of... the Air throw could definitely use some damage.
5. You can cancel from the Air Rekka from the Raiga but only after cancelling from a normal and re-cancel the rekka and its followup indefinitely as long as you time it correctly and are still mid-air. This is likely intentional, but it can cause a brutal infinite when done correctly. Video:
6. I don't think changing the QCB+C when the Heat is full is a good idea. The non-Heat jump makes for a cool combo starter and it's kinda annoying when you lose access to it. Changing the EX version's command would be nice.

I can see the concepts coming together, but it just needs balancing for the final release.
I do like the Hi-Res Garou Super Spark though.
Re: Gato- [Public beta]
#3  May 05, 2021, 09:31:52 PM
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1. Hit pause is 10,5 outside of escalation and 5,5 during. I see the dilemma though, I was thinking of tweaking my formula too. As far envshake, I understand what you mean, I haven't totally gone though extra fluff like that so it's good to keep in mind.

2. Hmm, it's the exact same states, animations, and hitboxes as my other Gato. I was having trouble with this on certain characters but it just put it down to their hitboxes. I did some velocity tweaks prior to uploading, so perhaps that might be a side effect.

3-4. Yeah, just spitballing here for the moment lol

5. Oh this move was broken like I expected it would be! I should check my cancel var, I might not have reset it in the state. Are you using the j.2A command move prior to canceling? It's probably because I left a ctrl=1 sitting around somewhere.

6. This is a sentiment I completely understand. It overriding the move was one of two options, the other being BC. I do think you might be right here.

I appreciate the feedback! My normal testers are far too busy at the moment so things like these I would normally know about prior to release haven't been cleaned up.
Re: Gato- [Public beta]
#4  May 07, 2021, 07:31:52 AM
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Updates today covering everything brought up so far as well as extra tweaks.
Spoiler: 5/6/21 (thanks Rowen!) (click to see content)
Re: Gato- [Public beta]
#5  May 07, 2021, 09:49:44 AM
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Thanks to you too... but there's still gripes (This time it's tested against himself):

1. Normals, with the small damage, feel kinda worthless and not fun to use outside of cancelling into specials (which the crouching normals lack), espcially the Strong attack. A chain or two would definitely help.
2. Raiga's B version doesn't connect with all 5 hits normally.
3. QCB+C feels nowhere near as free as the previous version, with only special moves being usable.
4. These aforementioned followups could be better and be more comboable. QCB+C>A could be better without the knockdown where you can followup with a jab or something.
5. Probably a bug but you can now use EX Fuuga at any time.
Re: Gato- [Public beta]
#6  May 07, 2021, 11:28:31 AM
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1. For sure normals have been a mixed bag, I'm still not sure about them myself. I keep going back and forth on chains like Real Bout, but I think if I double down on long pausetimes I should just bite the bullet and put them in.
2. hmm, this is a hitbox issue. I'm not sure what to say, my gravity caused the first issue, so removing it during the move just leaves the y velocities that were from the original, where it works. I'll look into this, but it it works in the corner lol!

3. It wasn't meant to work much like the source Fuu-ga, but I wasn't sure if it would overcomplicate it to allow you free use of all air moves. I agree with you though.
4. Hmm, this is something to think more about.
5. Yeah, a line of code was left out :p

Quick update to fix that EX issues and the fuu-ga followups now include all possible air moves
Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 11:32:54 AM by Bannana
Re: Gato- [Public beta]
#7  May 12, 2021, 05:41:32 AM
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some updates, added in escalation mode chains, some cancel changes, fixed various bugs caused by gravity, and tweaked some code to fix the mirror match rai-ga issues.

Spoiler: 5/11/21 (click to see content)

chains are expected to be altered at some point, don't see these as final
Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 05:49:08 AM by Bannana
Re: Gato- [Public beta]
#8  May 17, 2021, 12:40:01 PM
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Some bug fixes here. Going to be working on Sokaku next, which will give me an idea of any major system flaws.
Spoiler: 5/17/21 (click to see content)
Re: Gato- [Public beta]
#9  June 09, 2021, 09:34:37 AM
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Spoiler: 6/9/21 (click to see content)
Re: Gato- [Public beta]
#10  August 02, 2021, 11:25:48 PM
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A lot of system stuff to prep for other characters, not much in the way of Gato specifics at this point. This will probably be a perpetual beta to serve as a sandbox. Check first post for info about new mechanics. Enjoy.

Spoiler: 8/2/21 (click to see content)
Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 11:37:16 PM by Bannana