The Mugen Fighters Guild

M.U.G.E.N Central => Your Releases, older Mugen => Topic started by: Sean Altly on December 06, 2010, 04:48:06 pm

Title: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 06, 2010, 04:48:06 pm
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/seanaltly/stance-8.gif)

Here we have the last new character for SHADEs of Manhattan 2, Det. Garret Laurel. I meant to release him the week of Thanksgiving, but I decided to wait on Kamekaze to finish his AI so you guys wouldn't have to DL twice just for the AI. Anyway, here's a brief list of features and details on the character:

-Det. Laurel is a police officer, so he uses police-related weaponry and powerful strikes. He's less combo intensive than other SHADEs characters.
-He has 5 specials, including a gun firing special that involves an ammo system
-Kamekaze created an Ammo HUD to keep up with how much Ammo you have. There are times during supers that use the gun where the Ammo might not count down, but if that happens it's intentional
-Uses the SHADEs 2 gameplay system, for anyone unfamiliar with it, it involves a loose comboing system using chains similar to MvC or Darkstalkers, including a launcher and air combos (but not as crazy and exaggerated as MvC)
-Has 4 supers and a DM, the latter of which can only be used once and only when you're under 250 life
-Includes all the system and code updates of my recent characters
-Along with the Easy Overhead my characters have been given recently, he also features the limited attack functions during his forward/backward hops that has been suggested by BenimaruCollider and approved by others. This is the first public test of this system, so I need opinions on it as to whether it should be kept. This system was added to improve SHADEs characters rushdown capabilities. It will not be like the original SHADEs release where the characters could use them for huge combos or infinites.
-Original voicework by Dan Conlin AKA ConVito from Voice Acting Club
-Has a special intro with Apollo, Moses Maddigan and Bloodtide. However, these three characters have not yet been publically updated to be compatible with them. They will be within the next few days, so don't worry if it seems strange now.
-Try defeating your opponent in the last round with more than 750 of your life left. You'll get a special win pose. In fact, try it against Thirteen and any opponent named "Ryu" in the .def.
-Enjoy!

Screens (more in the Spoiler below):

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/seanaltly/Screenshots/mugen118.png)

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Download here: www.mugenguild.com/seanaltly (http://www.mugenguild.com/seanaltly) > Character Bios > Det. Laurel
CREDITS:

Dan Conlin aka ConVito as the voice of Det. Laurel
Zeckle for all of his help
Kamekaze for creating the AI and the code/sprites for his Ammo HUD
OrochiGill and Cybaster for beta-testing, benimarucollider for in-depth code feedback
Adam Rogers, Executive Producer
Everyone at MFG that helped with ideas for him, including flipthemaster and Galford
PotS for creating "The Greatest Hits of Feedback," where I got several code snippets and great tips for creation
Capcom for creating Eagle, who's animations I referenced for many of Laurel's
SNK for creating Seth, who I also referenced
Everyone at Mugen Fighter's Guild in general for always supporting me and my stuff
You for downloading this character!
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Nanashi_1337 on December 06, 2010, 04:51:32 pm
Oh boy, this makes me happy. Is it me, or does he resemble Gumshoe?

Anyway, let's see how it turned out.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 06, 2010, 04:53:55 pm
He does, his design is influenced by Gumshoe and Special Agent Booth (from the TV show Bones). He actually has a Det. Gumshoe palette.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Hiiragidaniel on December 06, 2010, 05:43:16 pm
Yeah, this made me jizz in my pants. :S
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Mishulika on December 06, 2010, 06:02:17 pm
he resembles lots of detectives{from Blade Runner, Snatchers,Ace Attorney]
I wouldnt be surprised if ppl started renaming him : )
Anyways simply great . I always wanted a detective char in mugen . You sir are epic.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: benimarucollider on December 06, 2010, 06:35:24 pm
Well, I hate to be a stick in the mud here, but there are definitely some problems with him:

 - You seem to have forgotten that the fall.recovertime value counts down during the pausetime for p2. This means that if you set the p2 pausetime at 10, and the fall.recovertime value to 10 or lower, it's as good as not setting it at all. Anyone with a low fall recovery threshold will be able to escape any air combo you try with this guy. I would recommend using a value of 22 for air light and medium attacks, which brings their total untechable time to 12, same as the air.hittime. Good to see that you tried, though.

 - The damage values for his level 2, level 3, and DM are all mixed up. Copland does even less damage than Magnum Force, making Last Action Hero his most powerful move. Magnum force should be the least damaging of those three, while Copland should be the most damaging.

 - I must update my recommendation for grab limiters. The range limiter and "no combo" limiter need to be triggers in the hitdef, not the .cmd file. In all my gaming experience, two button grabs, special grabs, and super grabs can be performed at any range, any time, so the hitdef is definitely where the limitation needs to be. Also, you got the grab hitbox right on Sabotage, but definitely NOT on this guy. It needs to extend as far down as the ground so people can't duck under it, because that's just not supposed to happen. Plenty of cooldown is a must, also.

 - Not really a problem, but did you intend to make his launcher completely untechable? Because setting the fall.recovertime to 60 instead of 50 makes it do that, unless you hit someone out of the air with it, and if you did intend it, then you should probably do the same to your other characters.

Nice job otherwise, though.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 06, 2010, 06:48:05 pm
-I didn't forget that, I just thought I remembered you saying I needed to set the fall.recovertime to be the same as the hittime. I'll fix this though.

-I'm not seeing a problem with the damage values for his Supers. L2 (Magnum Force) does 290 (303 if he hits them with the gun when he draws), L3 (Last Action Hero) does 401 and DM (Cop Land) does 406.

-I honestly thought that there was a problem with this, because my characters weren't even able to attempt throws when the oppoonent was in a hit state or stun, and I was pretty sure they should be able to try to throw them (but whiff). I forgot to adjust the hitbox on his normal grab, so I'll fix that too.

-I'm in the process of updating all of my characters to these standards, and the launcher is supposed to not be recoverable until they're right on near the ground. I'll have to adjust this time then since you said they can't recover at all from it.

Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Keku on December 06, 2010, 07:26:29 pm
'Bout time, now it's time for me to test this sonuvah gumshoe and see if he was well worth the hype.
His gameplay already hooked me from the looks of it... his special winpose made it thousands of times better.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Orochi Gill on December 06, 2010, 07:33:14 pm
Couple things I've noticed thusfar:
- Stray red pixels around hand/gun during DM.
- DM does not KO on final hit.

I just got done trying the AI out, and it's actually a lot easier than Ruckus and Sabotage were, since Laurel relies on his gun a lot.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 06, 2010, 07:38:51 pm
Are you talking about when he says "I need back up?" If so, the red pixel is supposed to be part of his radio.

There's also a red pixel near the end of the barrel of his gun, which is supposed to be there:

(http://littlejimssports.com/product_images/uploaded_images/taurus-judge-410-3-inch-2.gif)
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Orochi Gill on December 06, 2010, 07:43:12 pm
Ah, I get what you mean.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: benimarucollider on December 06, 2010, 08:01:14 pm
Sorry, I should have confirmed what damage the L3 one really does, but on my end, Magnum Force does 447 if the gun draw hits. This is because I have my mugen.cfg file changed so that the defense multiplier it applies to player 2 when hit by a super in a combo from player 1 is essentially nullified (it's set to 1.5 by default, but I set it to 1). The thing is, MUGEN only "knows when you've done a super" when a superpause happens. Set your mugen.cfg file the same way in your fullgame, because you already have universal damage dampening, and adjust this super accordingly. Take out the hitdef that has it doing 480 damage if used in a combo, and make the gun draw deal more damage. There's also a p2defmul that doesn't do anything. You should take it out.

Copland could be just a little more damaging, though.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 06, 2010, 09:33:49 pm
Just had Zeckle upload to the site, so I took the chance to address most of the previously mentioned issues. If you downloaded him from Sendspace this morning, you may want to redownload.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Cybaster on December 06, 2010, 09:36:19 pm
Also, Copland gives back a little power to Garret.
And I agree that it could do slightly more damage.

Great job overall. His AI is definitely easier than some other chars.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: senorfro on December 07, 2010, 03:11:16 am
(beats Ryu with more than 750 life)... ._. ... I see what you did there

I like that his moves are named after Cop movies

If you do 'Last Action Hero' from a certain distance, he'll knock the opponent far away enough to where they can block the rest.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Berry on December 07, 2010, 05:04:57 am
For some reason Garret's "Dark Blue" attack seems more violent than anything Thirteen could do. I mean he just beats the guy down with such force  o_O
But good character, will probably main him...and Adamas...pretty much everyone mains Adamas
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: vortex35 on December 07, 2010, 05:16:33 am
Yes! I Totally didnt think you would release him I thought he'd be a game exclusive really happy to see this and that new beautiful bloodtide of yours
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: ShiroTori on December 07, 2010, 06:08:41 am
Det. Laurel is very fun to use! But yeah, his AI is pretty easy compared to the other characters.

And his special victory poses really add to how awesome he is.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Kamekaze on December 07, 2010, 08:20:28 pm
And I've officially fixed that easy issue. Sean will be updating soon.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Nanashi_1337 on December 07, 2010, 08:31:39 pm
kamekaze said, December 07, 2010, 08:20:28 pm
And I've officially fixed that easy issue. Sean will be updating soon.

Oh boy, the AI is gonna rape me if you do that :'(
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Orochi Gill on December 07, 2010, 08:33:47 pm
Oh poppycock, a good challenge is good.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Nanashi_1337 on December 07, 2010, 08:35:37 pm
Orochi Gill said, December 07, 2010, 08:33:47 pm
Oh poppycock, a good challenge is good.

I just want to take it easy~

But yeah, I prefer if it doesn't have that flaw.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: BookWize on December 07, 2010, 10:02:32 pm
Mr. Sean Altly, this one marvelous character I would never imagine there would be a detectvie in mugen but you made it happen just like the rest of your characters. now there one thing I want to point out you think you could give him more speech then "Standdown" I  figure for a detectvie he would be saying more things like
"Stop Right There!" or "Don't move!" but thats just me which ever way you make him or your other charaters
I will still like all of them  just the same. ;)
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: N.O.Vice on December 07, 2010, 11:50:59 pm
He looks like a nice mixture of Seth and Eagle, the sprites look amazing (I'm jealous actually), he's really well animated and functions smoothly. I wouldn't really expect less.

I enjoyed how you applied the use of the gun. As a designer, I believe it would look better if you had a slightly more detailed font/sprite or replaced the number with actual bullet representations. Since it's five bullets in total, you could easily create the multiple bullet sprites.


The voice acting works well with the character... I have no room to evaluate on that. (Tye will get a DECENT voice eventually guys.)

Gameplay, at first I didn't feel like he had much combo potential... but after a little testing I was pleasantly surprised. I do have some things to critique.

- Lethal Weapon needs to be a tad faster overall. Yes, an almost instant projectile that follows, but the vulnerability, low damage, and the need of reloading forces the move into obscurity,
-- Would be neat if it would combo close up.
-- Be cool if the downward shot would hit lying opponents.
^*Face palm* Didn't know you could do consecutive shots until just now! Changes everything, yet a damaged reduced shot to a down opponent would be cool.
- Sudden Impact is well programmed, yet I wouldn't mind to see projectile immunity on the early start up to make it a decent anti-projectile attack.
- Striking Distance works great as a reversal against grounded opponents so nothing wrong here, looks great.
- Hard boiled, everything looks fine here.
- Die Hard needs a tad less recovery or longer guard pausing, just to make the aesthetics of the move right.... yet the hitoverride is a cool feature.
- His normals are decent, but cr. HP needs to be a tad better on priority I feel.
- Supers are wonderful, love the animations, nothing off except the probably intentional no bullet loss lvl 3 super combo.

Everything I said is pretty much trivial in the long run though. The character is amazing as is.

I just hope one day I can make my characters as engaging and as fun to play as yours.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 08, 2010, 04:18:52 pm
No feedback as in depth as yours is trivial, and I will certainly take everything into consideration. I need to do another update to fix the power gain during his DM, so I'll probably make some of these adjustments when I do.

Thanks for the kind words, especially about the sprites, since these ones took me longer than any other sprites I've done. I can't wait to see more of your stuff as well.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: benimarucollider on December 08, 2010, 06:28:06 pm
I almost forgot to mention this, but the AI sometimes uses Lethal Weapon as a juggle after EX Die Hard in the corner. This is impractical not only because Lethal Weapon is techable long before the gunshots can hit, but the gunshots don't even connect in the corner, since they appear too far in front of Garret. It also jump cancels the launcher on block. It probably shouldn't be doing the former, and definitely shouldn't be doing the latter.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: senorfro on December 11, 2010, 11:20:49 am
After trying him out some more, a few more points

- 'Copland' can be done whether you have super or not.  If you do it with any amount of super, it gets used up.

- 'Striking Distance' has a weird property in the corner.  Do the move with his back to the wall.  When it's done, since there's no room to send the opponent, they more or less stay in place (a couple of times, because of placement, the opponent stays where they are instead of the other side).  Another thing, is that the opponent will face the wrong direction for half a second, which can be confusing (I once had Oswald back-dash behind me).

- How come I can combo into 'Die Hard', but not 'Hard Boiled'

- Just a suggestion, but I believe LP version of 'The Enforcer' should face downward.  I say this because some characters can flat out duck the entire move without getting hit.  This way, it could cover a better area.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 11, 2010, 04:26:55 pm
-All of the SHADEs characters' DMs work like that, it's a system thing. Once you're below 250 life, you get one shot at the DM and it uses all of your remaining Super Meter, whether you have 3 or 3000 built up. If you miss, you don't get another shot at it until the next round.

-I haven't seen that, I'll have to check it out.

-That's just a gameplay decision I made. I can add some comboability to the move, but I tried it before and the fact that it's a low-hitting attack throw that does a lot of damage made it feel cheap to combo into.

-I suppose I could add that. He does shoot right over a lot of other characters because he's so tall.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: senorfro on December 11, 2010, 10:53:25 pm
Sean Altly said, December 11, 2010, 04:26:55 pm
-All of the SHADEs characters' DMs work like that, it's a system thing. Once you're below 250 life, you get one shot at the DM and it uses all of your remaining Super Meter, whether you have 3 or 3000 built up. If you miss, you don't get another shot at it until the next round.

I see.  I didn't realize all your characters had that.  I just find it odd that I could have no super meter, do the move and do set damage; while if I had a full super meter and did the move, the same damage amount is dealt.  I suppose it does further the term of desperation as you can use the move but not without cause and consequences.  It just seems impractical to put it in those conditions.

Sean Altly said, December 11, 2010, 04:26:55 pm
-That's just a gameplay decision I made. I can add some comboability to the move, but I tried it before and the fact that it's a low-hitting attack throw that does a lot of damage made it feel cheap to combo into.

Maybe you can make a damage damper on it to make the damage not so high.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Orochi Gill on December 11, 2010, 11:28:40 pm
The DMs are easily avoided as they're grabs, easily blocked and/or close-range attacks. The only exception is Thirteen, who has a grab DM, and it's unblockable and he runs at you during it.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Nanashi_1337 on December 12, 2010, 12:37:51 am
Orochi Gill said, December 11, 2010, 11:28:40 pm
The only exception is Thirteen, who has a grab DM, and it's unblockable and he runs at you during it.

The AI also loves to use this attack, so you have to be really careful when you manage to drop his health a lot. God knows how many times I made a mistake and let the AI grab me.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Orochi Gill on December 12, 2010, 03:55:45 am
He's open to attack when he does it so toss a projectile his way or move
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Nanashi_1337 on December 12, 2010, 07:03:42 pm
Orochi Gill said, December 12, 2010, 03:55:45 am
He's open to attack when he does it so toss a projectile his way or move

Yeah, I noticed that. For characters that don't have projectiles, I'm usually jumping all the time :P
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 12, 2010, 07:06:18 pm
Well, I'm about to release updates for all of my previously released characters. Do you think I should make Thirteen's DM blockable?
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Orochi Gill on December 12, 2010, 07:07:58 pm
Given the speed he runs at and the huge damage output it has, it might be a good idea.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Nanashi_1337 on December 12, 2010, 07:08:12 pm
Sean Altly said, December 12, 2010, 07:06:18 pm
Well, I'm about to release updates for all of my previously released characters. Do you think I should make Thirteen's DM blockable?

Well, either you decrease the speed and damage or you make it blockable.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Darkflare on December 12, 2010, 07:09:33 pm
Running throws are tricky to be honest.

I would factor in the speed he's going. If you think he goes pretty fast, then maybe it should be blockable.

But at the same time, it IS a DM so that could make you choose to keep it unblockable.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 12, 2010, 07:26:34 pm
Yeah, I mean, you only have to stop him a maximum of once per round. I already lowered the damage for the update from 500 to 450 since 400-450 is the new standard for DMs in SHADEs 2 (I look at them as a free L3 super basically).
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: senorfro on December 13, 2010, 04:39:50 am
Sean Altly said, December 12, 2010, 07:26:34 pm
I look at them as a free L3 super basically).

Keep in mind that if that's the case, no super meter should be lost when the move is executed (hence free).
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Orochi Gill on December 13, 2010, 04:43:22 am
That would be really broken then since you could do any super immediately after the DM (although you can already do a DM after a level 3, but that's something entirely different).
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 13, 2010, 04:58:46 am
I guess free wasn't the right word than. Basically, they're just flashy L3 supers with no super meter requirement. It's like using all you have left to try to sway the battle in your favor.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Orochi Gill on December 13, 2010, 05:00:54 am
I wouldn't say flashy. I'd say they're free that they don't need a specific power requirement, but still use your entire reserve.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: senorfro on December 13, 2010, 05:05:55 am
So, like the title implies, desperation (trump card, last resort, hail mary, etc. etc.).  I also noticed that the detective isn't on your gallery list of characters on your sig.  If I may ask, is he a last minute newcomer, or is there more to come?
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 13, 2010, 05:09:10 am
Yeah, that image was made before the roster was finalized. It's also missing Apollo and Exile.
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: The Wist on December 24, 2010, 09:18:13 pm
how do i install this character in Shade of Manathan game ?
Title: Re: Release - Det. Garret Laurel (SHADEs 2) by SeanAltly (w/AI by Kamekaze)
Post by: Sean Altly on December 24, 2010, 09:22:03 pm
It won't work. This release is just for general Mugen play. He'll be in the SHADEs of Manhattan 2 full-game.