YesNoOk
avatar

Ryu and Ken 2022 Update. (Read 144467 times)

Started by Mushypepito123, July 27, 2022, 08:25:20 am
Share this topic:
Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#1  July 27, 2022, 08:25:20 am
  • ***
  • the Suicidal Bastard
  • "I want to see and understand the world outside."
    • Philippines
Hello, Mugen Fighter's Guild. It has been a while, isn't it?

So I've been releasing stuff on my youtube channel many times and have forgotten about the guild. (I know, dumb reason.)
I decided to update my edits of POTS and Jmorphman's Ryu and Ken with my (old) new playstyle dubbed "WOF" (short for Webs of Freedom, because they're related to my project.)

this is basically a major overhaul of their gameplay style because I was practicing my editing skills for these last years, but at the same time making a story through MUGEN // IKEMEN releases. (which I currently suck at.)

anyways, this adds back some features that were removed in my previous edit renditions whereas adding some of OHMSBY (or in some cases, Blazblue or Guilty Gear.) features like the burst system and then fusing them with MVC and CVS stuff.

I am not confident that this latest update is bug-free, so feel free to lay out some feedback and I'll do my best (or maybe seek some outside help) to fix them.


KEN: https://mega.nz/file/ld5EzK6D#BmDOITG6v-lvTYibX-_9fR-ciU_U8zEdjdQyAx7AJ9I


RYU: https://mega.nz/file/1UwAyYSQ#TBsUcX_GwR5WFB3L3aS-2zjf3CWxpJvylcP9kqSHQ58
Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 11:54:10 am by Mushypepito123
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#2  July 27, 2022, 06:51:41 pm
  • ***
  • Guilty Gear XRD Rev Mugen Stages
  • We live in a society
    • Dominica
nice chars.
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#3  July 28, 2022, 12:52:38 am
  • ***
  • I swear I've been working on Geese all this time.
  • Kind of POTS style editor, except not really.
Seems like an interesting style so far, I was actually thinking about implementing something like that EX counter you gave both Ryu & Ken in my style.

That said, I do think it would be good to have a readme for both characters and the style, as to get a better idea as to how the characters play.
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#4  July 28, 2022, 03:04:46 am
  • ***
    • USA
    • https://jthesaltyy.wixsite.com/jthesaltyymugen
i tried out both chars because i was a little interested in seeing how this weird mvc anime hybrid of the shotos would turn out.
unfortunately most of both characters are littered with many issues that aren't bugs, i haven't found any of those. Gameplay is where I have issues with these characters.

they both are plus on hit and block on just about every single move they have, leading to many infinites and combos that take zero effort. i know not everyone understands frame data but +16 for a jab is ridiculous. it doesn't apply to the jabs either every single move Ryu and Ken have are extremely plus on hit and while the numbers are diluted on block it's still plus, almost none of their moves are minus and if they are -2 at very worst. I know these characters aren't the same as they were in Street Fighter but the shotos by design have good buttons to control space and if they are +10 on hit then it takes one or two good touches to kill the opponent.
They both have weird aerial hitboxes (Ken's j.LK for example covers his entire head) yet air combos feel really tight and not good at all because the super jump is so fast while the launcher does not launch them nearly as fast.

On the topic of hitboxes, I don't really see consistency with them. Some hitboxes use the accurate CvS2 ones, most likely taken from Karma's Ryu beta and Jman's Ken, and other times the hitboxes are noticeably way larger than they were in CvS2. Even between the shotos there's some very noticeable differences between two moves that are the exact same in motion:

Some normals whiff on crouchers fine then others have massive hitboxes that can hit anyone:

I don't care what style of hitboxes you choose they can be CvS2 they can be massive disjoint everywhere, it just needs to have consistency.

The pushback on the moves is nonexistent. I don't know if that's a thing in these anime games but considering the fact that every move is really plus on hit this means you can link one move up to 10 times which just looks wrong and it does too much damage. I could link crouching light punch on both characters up to 40 times leading to like 300 damage.

When doing air attacks, if you perform an air attack on the other side of jumping over someone you automatically get an aerial side switch. I don't know if that's a thing in an anime game but it completely kills the idea of a crossup. Instead, now every air normal can crossup. I would rather you give crossup hitboxes to individual air normals (Ryu for example has one with j.LK and Ken with j.MK) than just include a feature that can allow every air normal to crossup since it takes out the depth and diversity of the air normals and makes them nothing more than air combo filler and jump ins.

Speaking of damage, there's no apparent damage scaling, at least damage scaling that actually scales hard on a combo. Infinites will easily kill because the combo doesn't scale enough to where you have to rep the infinite numerous times to get it to finish the job. Even without infinites both Ryu and Ken have meterless touch of death combos from any sort of starter with no setup whatsoever. Adding a damage scaling system would definitely help tone down the damage on the long meterless combos both characters have.

The invulnerability/nothitby is also an issue. I know balance is really subjective here but these characters are getting invuln on moves that shouldn't get invul. It makes sense for why shoryuken has i-frames but why Tatsumaki? or Donkey Kick? Yeah Tatsumaki has fireball invul but here it's invulnerable to everything.  Donkey Kick was never a reversal to begin with and the fact that it has i-frames is just going to make Ryu even stronger when he already has a meterless reversal. Even air tatsu has i-frames, hell even the overhead ken kick has i-frames. Every special except hadouken has i-frames, when in reality DP should be the only one to have them. On top of that, DP has too many i-frames, as they should be over by the time the uppercut rises but instead they last until the descent. Toning down the i-frames on DP and removing the i-frames on everything else would be a good step in the right direction.


Also, parrying. The fact that the parry window is a huge 15 frames means it takes no effort whatsoever to parry anything. Just repeatedly mashing forward will parry even the longest of multihitting attacks. Ryu's own shinkuu hadouken super can be parried really easily by just mashing forward. I would suggest changing it to either 7 frames (3rd Strike parry window) or 3 frames (CvS2 parry window). 15 is just too much.

The burst for both characters is fullscreen which is ridiculous. It completely invalidates burst baiting which is a technique that balances out burst and makes it less powerful. On top of that you can combo off of said fullscreen bursts because it causes a juggleable wallbounce, which also shouldn't be a thing either.


If you were to take a feature from ohmsby then negative penalty would be a good one. It incentivizes the player to quite literally stop playing like a bitch. This is optional but it would be a nice feature to have if dodges and bursts are on the table.

Chain combos are whatever nowadays but being able to chain 6 attacks is kinda crazy, maybe tone it down to like 4-5 attacks at the very most, and Ken probably shouldn't chain into his f+HK command normal.

Speaking of command normals, Ryu has none. No overhead, solar plexus, or hop kick. If this was a stylistic decision, I guess I can respect it but it's weird that he doesn't have at least one of them. Ken does have one but for some reason it's not an overhead. Ken's medium kick is also weird, being the command normal funky kick that he has, which is a weird choice of normal. Why not just keep Ken's funky kicks? I could see some cool stuff being done with them, it's weird as to why they are no longer there. Overall the choices of normals is just really weird and I would suggest just keeping the set of animations CvS2 has, command normals included. For example, instead of using Ken's f+HK has just HK, give Ken the normal HK he has in CvS2 and make the step kick f+HK. That's kinda how I would go about it,.

Ryu's shakunetsu also does 18 damage when it should do more. I wouldn't spend 1 bar of meter for something that does 18 damage, and if it does that poor of damage to get a free juggle then I can just do donkey kick, it's meterless and gives me a free wallbounce. It's just a redundant move overall. Also, I suggest that you make Hadouken do different damage for the different button strengths, this applies to both shotos. 35 is just too low. Maybe something like 56 for LP, 63 for MP, and 70 for HP (CvS2 damage values). They should also not be +12 on point blank connect, that's more reserved for charge fireballs, sonic booms for example. Make them like around -5 to -6 on point blank connect. All of this info applies to air hadouken as well. Because they are +12 on point blank, you can repeatedly chain into them, making it a pseudo infinite since you will eventually be pushed out.

This is mostly a nitpick admittedly but the size of both characters are massive. I know the effects are high res and all but there has to be some sort of compression to them otherwise you get the 74mb and 61mb sizes respectively. The effects are pretty cool and all and I do think seeing them on Street Fighter characters is kinda interesting but there's gotta be a little optimization in there.

the only "bug" i've found is that the guarding shield (barrier?) is misaligned on the last frame of the blocking animation, and idk why it plays a jojo stand noise when it appears but that isn't really a bug or an issue.

Now, as for the infinites, I'll list all the ones I've found, though there could be more:
-Both Ryu and Ken can do an infinite by holding forward and mashing jab, because jab is +16, they have enough room to microwalk and never lose distance, as well as having no pushback on hit. Since other normals are also around +10 on hit you can link into and out of this infinite many times.
-Ryu can combo into donkey kick, then rep a chain into light donkey since donkey kick has no juggle limiter. There should be a juggle system in place that can prevent infinites like these from happening.
- Ryu can also combo into MK tatsu in the corner, and then chain into MK tatsu again and repeat. This is again the result of no juggle system in place to stop this from happening.
- Both shotos can repeatedly do hadouken (any version) while the opponent is cornered from midscreen. This is because the hadouken has too much hitstun and should be lowered.
-Both Ken and Ryu can rep their light shoryuken infinitely in the corner, and this infinite can be comboed into and out of many times. This also applies to hitting the counter move shoryuken in the corner. Shoryuken should not be able to get combo'd off of and this was likely unintentional.
-Ken can combo into HK Tatsu and then link into cr.LP and combo into HK Tatsu again, since Tatsu is +7 on hit Ken can link into something and chain into Tatsu again to regain the space.

While I think the idea is interesting, I would advise doing some research before making characters like these otherwise there's going to be some very obvious and avoidable flaws as shown here. There's a lot of potential with the idea but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#5  July 28, 2022, 04:27:04 am
  • ***
  • Come On You Know LGx
  • biblical (yea)
    • USA
    • Skype - eddsworldtrash
    • remixsparta.wix.com/mugensdawn
Also going to add that the super jump goes ridiculously high, killing the chance of doing ANY launcher combos whatsoever because you'll just zoom past your launched opponent every time.
Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 04:31:20 am by Dawn de Era
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#6  July 28, 2022, 05:01:01 am
  • ***
  • the Suicidal Bastard
  • "I want to see and understand the world outside."
    • Philippines
Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 06:19:42 am by Mushypepito123
Ryu updated (7/29/2022)
#7  July 29, 2022, 11:53:59 am
  • ***
  • the Suicidal Bastard
  • "I want to see and understand the world outside."
    • Philippines
decided to update Ryu first.

Quote
1. changes made to the damage output and scaling, although it won't be noticeable at first.
            2. Ryu will no longer perform some forms of infinites although there are some that can be recovered.
            3. Hadouken's hitstun has been reduced from 31 to 21.
            4. although there's no negative penalty, the burst gauge will overheat for a short period of time after usage.
            5. adjusted the hit velocity of the CHP, now Ryu can do launcher combos properly.
            6. Aesthetic and misc stuff added, including reduced power loss when in GMGOF (AI Level 8)
            7. and some other changes I forgot to list down.

still, just let me know if I missed something. feel free to bash me in the head for forgetting to fix some flaws again.


the only "bug" i've found is that the guarding shield (barrier?) is misaligned on the last frame of the blocking animation, and idk why it plays a jojo stand noise when it appears but that isn't really a bug or an issue.


which blocking animation are you referring to, the standing? crouching? or jumping? it shouldn't be more of a nuisance though.
Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 12:09:23 pm by Mushypepito123
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#8  July 30, 2022, 01:28:01 am
  • avatar
  • **
How can i change the Ai dificulty?
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#9  July 30, 2022, 01:58:46 am
  • ***
  • the Suicidal Bastard
  • "I want to see and understand the world outside."
    • Philippines
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#10  July 30, 2022, 05:59:07 am
  • avatar
  • **
How i can acces GMGOF mode??
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#11  July 30, 2022, 07:22:05 am
  • ***
  • the Suicidal Bastard
  • "I want to see and understand the world outside."
    • Philippines
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#12  August 01, 2022, 05:13:07 am
  • **
How i can acces GMGOF mode??

GMGOF is an AI mode, but you can just access it by tuning the AI difficulty up to level 8.

You should disable the guard so the parry looks more natural. Having the AI guard into parry just looks wrong especially since GMGOF is an auto parry mode.

Also, as others mentioned, the infinite attack loops are still there after the update.
It's more or less a bug than an actual mechanic flaw. I mean, besides looking flashy, why even have different combo strings/routes that leads to a complete combo when you could just jab p2 to death with much less error and effort.

Unless all the infinites are fixed, the characters will forever be buggy. Then you could start with the other less noticeable things as pointed out by @jthesaltyy:
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#13  August 01, 2022, 05:35:37 am
  • ***
  • the Suicidal Bastard
  • "I want to see and understand the world outside."
    • Philippines
How i can acces GMGOF mode??

GMGOF is an AI mode, but you can just access it by tuning the AI difficulty up to level 8.

You should disable the guard so the parry looks more natural. Having the AI guard into parry just looks wrong especially since GMGOF is an auto parry mode.

Also, as others mentioned, the infinite attack loops are still there after the update.
It's more or less a bug than an actual mechanic flaw. I mean, besides looking flashy, why even have different combo strings/routes that leads to a complete combo when you could just jab p2 to death with much less error and effort.

Unless all the infinites are fixed, the characters will forever be buggy. Then you could start with the other less noticeable things as pointed out by @jthesaltyy:


aight gotcha, It'll be fixed after the next update.
Re: Ryu and Ken 2022 Update.
#14  August 08, 2022, 06:31:34 pm
  • ***
  • The true fight begins now..get in the tournament!
  • Danzey legendary tournament is the final fight!
    • France
    • danzey-legendary-tournament.blogspot.fr/
thank you for this update! glad to see you again!
very good job!
welcome back in mugen!

my older name was danzey,now i'm SHIN DANZEY
FOLLOW ME ON YOUTUBE AND my Website