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Super Smash Bros Ultimate (Read 548439 times)

Started by GTOAkira, March 09, 2018, 12:23:32 AM
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Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2441  April 10, 2021, 12:42:03 AM
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That's the thing of it, though.  Without everything that makes Mortal Kombat what it is, I don't feel like MK characters really offer anything that would be particularly innovative or interesting in Smash Bros' style.  At least nothing that Ryu, Ken, and Terry aren't already bringing to the table.  Take away the ultra-violence, the brutalities, the fatalities - retrofit everything in Scorpion's kit to be CERO-friendly and you're left with some pretty generic moves.  Fire breath.  Tether grab.  Teleport kick.  Nothing that someone else isn't already doing.

I mean, if you want an example of how milquetoast a defanged Mortal Kombat experience can be, look no further than Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2442  April 10, 2021, 12:56:51 AM
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Given what happened with Mai (and Poison, Laura, etc), there are some characters who Sakurai wouldn't even try to "defang" to begin with. I imagine Western AAA characters, such as the MK cast; falling into that category. Even then, NRS might force them not to be defanged, making them harder to work with. MK elements could be transfered mechanically with enough work; dial-a-kombos haven't been done in the series to my knowledge, and I could see something like an unlimited block being used.  Even the Fatality mechanic, or for that matter X-Rays and whatnot, could use a meter, or just go for any victim of stun. But again, Sakurai might not even want to try with them; the series has become that brutal.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2443  April 10, 2021, 04:02:40 AM
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I've been gung ho on getting Scorpion or Sub-Zero in Smash for a long time, so this topic of conversation is in my wheelhouse.

Anyhow.. Person Man is right: Take away the violence and you really don't have much with the MK characters... except either one would be seen as something cool after so many people complaining about swordsmen and women.

And yes, MK vs. DC was basically an example of what happens when you take away the violence from a Mortal Kombat game.. but it could be used as a blueprint as to how to get these characters into Smash. You also have their appearances in Injustice to help round out the characters.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2444  April 10, 2021, 04:54:32 AM
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People love to throw out "fatalities make the series impossible to do in Smash".

Ridley and Simon trailer happened.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2445  April 10, 2021, 06:05:05 AM
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Take away the violence and you really don't have much with the MK characters...
There's a couple of ways to implement MK characters while respecting the lore they originate in and without needing to put their infamous violence and can pretend stuff after MK4 don't exist.

The Aggressor feature from MK3 can build up faster when you go on the offense and slowly when on the receiving end.  Brutality can happen once you start a dial a combo on the ground and if your opponent is at let's say 150%, by adding secret inputs,  it can lead to an automatic KO.  Down Special pulls out weapons based on the 3D era and can do unique combos from it but if the opponent gets it, it's a simple battering item.  The run gauge can greatly increase speed while giving them the ability to cancel combos or do unique juggles at low percentage.  Dan Forden manifests out of nowhere when you get a stock in Free For All and if you do a unique input, you get a Final Smash but it would be weakened.

I was gonna add in the Xray meter thing but not only it would be complicated but it's from an entry that is banned in Japan.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2446  April 10, 2021, 06:46:12 AM
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Saying that you can't put MK characters without putting violence its like saying you can't put Bayonetta without her getting naked all the time. The violence of MK is extremely easy to censor, because the characters don't need to do fatalities in Smash, nor do they need any blood or gore to be present, yeah, Scorpion's spear is a gory move in MK, but take that away and its as violent as all the slashes and thrusts from all the other blades in Smash. Besides, acting as if MK's gore is the one thing the franchise lives by is just a bad take, its true that its iconic for the series and it is actually quite overused, but if MK swapped all its gore for hitsparks in the next game, it would still sell well, simply because its MK.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2447  April 10, 2021, 11:21:48 AM
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Pretty sure MK sells because of the gore, with newer entries ramping up the gore and deliberately putting an emphasis on it as part of the gameplay loop, to the detriment of the dev team. Lord knows it's not because it's a competent fighting game :}

If there's one thing that's iconic to the MK series past the gore itself, it's the finishers, specifically Fatalities. It's what turned a fighting game with blood sparks into a controversial behemoth that played a pivotal role in the creation of the rating system, and the backlash was mocked by devs with the inclusion of Babalities and Friendships. To not have Fatalities is to not represent what made Mortal Kombat popular.
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Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2448  April 10, 2021, 11:57:36 AM
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I mean, it also cemented the ease of copypasting clones for a roster.  Like, half its roster came out of that one dude recorded in his Halloween ninja costume then digitally recolored.

An all-in-one MK Ninja akin to Bowser Jr. covering all the Koopa Kids with just more crunchy sound effects to their hits to vaguely convey their more brutal fights like Ryu and Ken do their SFII sound effects could be done and get the general game vibes across without, you know, vivisecting Mario and co. in Smash.  The fact that the Street Fighter representation in-game already just focuses on SFII implies to me if MK made the cut, they'd just focus on one old title anyways.  UMK3, I'd assume.

Fatalities can still be used, just as the non-lethal inspiration for their Final Smash.  Or hell, a number of Final Smashes in-game already do kill the opponent outright if at a high enough percentage instead of flinging them off the stage, just don't have theirs pull the guy's spine out or choke them out with their own small intestine or whatever.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2449  April 10, 2021, 01:53:56 PM
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Yes, yes, it is technically possible for a moveset to be created for an MK character in Smash.  That was never my point.  My point was that if they took the time and effort to strip away everything they had to to make the character CERO compliant, they'd also be removing anything that would make them unique from other characters already in Smash.  As I said the last time this discussion came up, it's be an immense amount of hoops they'd have to force themselves to jump through only to wind up with a heavily diluted version of a character that Japanese fans mostly wouldn't even recognize and Western fans would find generic and uninspired to play as.

On another note, a Bowser's Fury spirit board event is happening now.  Get your kitties and kaijus before they're gone.


https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1379599811448598528
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2450  April 10, 2021, 05:21:00 PM
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Fury Bowser Spirit brings back Melee Giga Bowser vibes based on how he's set up.  That's very cool to see.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2451  April 10, 2021, 05:55:56 PM
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People love to throw out "fatalities make the series impossible to do in Smash".

Ridley and Simon trailer happened.

Except those were cinematics deliberately intended to fake out the audience?
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2452  April 10, 2021, 06:29:25 PM
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while I'm not the biggest supporter for an MK rep in Smash, after playing PM Remix and seeing how they handled Sub-Zero, I think it could work really well. He's actually decently fun here
 
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Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2453  April 10, 2021, 06:32:32 PM
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People love to throw out "fatalities make the series impossible to do in Smash".

Ridley and Simon trailer happened.

Except those were cinematics deliberately intended to fake out the audience?
It's promotional material, though, which people will look at before playing the game and also works as advertisement. If it was a problem, those trailers would never be like that.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2454  April 10, 2021, 07:55:58 PM
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I know "they aren't really a Fatality level problem", but proof that MK can work in Smash even if fake animations.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2455  April 10, 2021, 09:28:28 PM
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Luigi's soul was ripped from his body, with no actual gore shown. It's not in any capacity the same as what people expect from a Fatality, as proven by the fan reaction to the family-friendly MKvsDC versions.
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Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2456  April 10, 2021, 10:20:38 PM
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I know "they aren't really a Fatality level problem", but proof that MK can work in Smash even if fake animations.
it's be an immense amount of hoops they'd have to force themselves to jump through only to wind up with a heavily diluted version of a character that Japanese fans mostly wouldn't even recognize and Western fans would find generic and uninspired to play as.
This is what I got from looking at this mod.  This Sub-Zero mod doesn't look like I'm playing a literal MK character.  If you want a good example of a FG character that looks and feels like the source, see Blazblue's V-13.

Also I just realized they would have to negotiate with WB Games to even get the rights for MK and I can't imagine the nightmare that comes with it.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2457  April 10, 2021, 10:55:51 PM
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Luigi's soul was ripped from his body, with no actual gore shown. It's not in any capacity the same as what people expect from a Fatality, as proven by the fan reaction to the family-friendly MKvsDC versions.
Yet MKvsDC was one of Midway's most successful titles.

MKvsDC Wikipedia page said:
In their 10-K filing, Midway Games revealed the title had sold over 1.9 million units, making it one of the company's most successful titles since 2002.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2458  April 10, 2021, 11:05:44 PM
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Luigi's soul was ripped from his body, with no actual gore shown. It's not in any capacity the same as what people expect from a Fatality, as proven by the fan reaction to the family-friendly MKvsDC versions.
Yet MKvsDC was one of Midway's most successful titles.

MKvsDC Wikipedia page said:
In their 10-K filing, Midway Games revealed the title had sold over 1.9 million units, making it one of the company's most successful titles since 2002.

That doesn't mean people like it. Sure people may have liked it at the time, or people bought it expecting more than what it actually was, but overtime you'd be hardpressed to find someone who enjoys that game.

Watered-down Mortal Kombat is not something that will make a lot of people happy. Smash would have to get very creative with representing the gore without... actually having the gore, to give a character like Scorpion or Sub-Zero the proper "atmosphere" of a Mortal Kombat character.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2459  April 10, 2021, 11:06:21 PM
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Come on man, we all know popularity/monetary success does not equate to greatness.  Just proper marketability.  The game was pushing D.C. Comics with their big hitters meeting the Mortal Kombat cast, of course it was going to sell regardless of standards.
Re: Super Smash Bros Ultimate
#2460  April 10, 2021, 11:20:45 PM
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Indeed, the biggest criticism of MKvsDC at the time, and even still to this day, was that it wasn't violent and gory enough. It's not just the biggest critique, it's the only one people mention about that game. Not the shitty story, or the awful character designs and models, or the garbage gameplay. It was that you couldn't rip Batman's spine out with Sub-Zero.

The thing that matters most to Mortal Kombat, the thing that is the core identity of the entire franchise, is the gore. You take that away, and there's not much left.

also LOL at the idea that Luigi turning into a cartoon ghost after getting slashed by Castlevania Death is in any way equivalent to a MK fatality