Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: Roman55 on March 05, 2021, 01:16:09 am
It's another Ikaruga sprite swap, this time of Kim.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: Dawn de Era on March 05, 2021, 02:24:36 am
Huge disappointment. Most, if not all of her animations are traces (Why the fuck would you give her Alice's stance??? uuuuugh), her moveset isn't accurate, and it's just a spriteswap at the end of the day. I actually looked forward to this, but it's just another example of how Max Impact 2 characters never get proper treatment.
This guy wanted a subscriber milestone for this release. That's what pisses me off the most.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: Joey S. on March 05, 2021, 02:38:17 am
Yeah, I'm quite disappointed as well. I initially thought it had potential, at the very least with salvagable sprites. Then I tested their Sylvie only to realize that an actually good Chae Lim was currently too much to ask for. And now this? This is on par with, if not flat out worse than Chuchoryu's "CVS" Chae Lim. Hell, whoever sprited this Chae Lim also ended up tracing Kim sprites and most of the heavily edited sprites look just as out-of-proportion as Chuchi's sprites.
It's a shame people don't give enough of a shit about Max Impact 2 characters, and what Dawn said sums it up perfectly. I'd happily help out with an actually good version of Chae if she ever gets made by someone else. But until then, we have spriteswap trash.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: 【ＭＦＧ】gui0007 on March 05, 2021, 06:59:34 am
It's another Ikaruga sprite swap, this time of Kim.
It was from Ahuron's version actually, Ikaruga's part is on the patch he did for this version of Kim. Well, i kinda like it but i expected more, specially cause Chae is one of my main chars in Maximum Impact 2. :v
I can say there are few Maximum Impact characters that i consider well made like - Blue Blood's Luise Meyrink - Thedge, Riccochet & NiO's Lien Neville - FZL & Crow's Alba Meira
I can mention Ahuron's Kyo since not only the outfit but skills also are from MI2.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: Roman55 on March 05, 2021, 08:28:09 am
wow the amount of anger in these comments, it seems all personal kkkk, the guy edited lost some time editing and launched, life that follows kkkk
It's good to see more kof MI2 characters converted to mugen, it's a shame that there are so few that you can count on my fingers :/ And although I know some projects, most of them are on standby for personal reasons or because they do not have enough support
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: Roman55 on March 05, 2021, 11:18:57 pm
wow the amount of anger in these comments, it seems all personal kkkk, the guy edited lost some time editing and launched, life that follows kkkk
I really hope I didn't come across that way to you. Neither the video nor the video description make mention of the original author and I honestly don't think it'd be fair to anyone wanting to download this character expecting something interesting only to have it turn out to be someone's uncredited work coding wise.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 06, 2021, 12:28:05 am
Everyone complains, but no one values that spriting is hard. Not the best aproach to Chae Lim? Of course. A sprite swap of Kim? Too. But at least the guy did something :/ .
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: jonathanS on March 06, 2021, 12:59:54 am
Everyone complains, but no one values that spriting is hard. Not the best aproach to Chae Lim? Of course. A sprite swap of Kim? Too. But at least the guy did something :/ .
exactly what i mean.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: Macaulyn97 on March 06, 2021, 03:06:49 am
That is completely irrelevant. If people see a Chae-Lim character being released (that is misplaced outside of the Edits section), they will expect her to play like Chae-Lim, not like Kim. There is nothing wrong with complaining about that and/or warning other people.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 06, 2021, 03:32:42 am
That is completely irrelevant. If people see a Chae-Lim character being released (that is misplaced outside of the Edits section), they will expect her to play like Chae-Lim, not like Kim. There is nothing wrong with complaining about that and/or warning other people.
It's easier to be behind the wall and throwing shit. Making a spriteswap of Kyo and calling it "Kusanagi" or "orochi Kyo" or whatever with just palete applied is lazy as Hell. People expects something new. Of course, this Chae Lim is only Kim with different sprites. At least the guy took his time to sprite, not just the boobs, hair, etc.
Following your logic, having PotS characters is not accurate because people expects to play as Ryu/Terry/etc in CvS2 and only applies the cosmetic use of CvS themed sprites. So c'mon, warn people about not using PotS styled characters.
The POINT is "You don't like it" PERFECT. I agree this is a lazy swap. But AT LEAST the guy took his time to do SOMETHING aside complainng and waiting for people to do that awesome stuff. Wanna complain? Perfect. Learn coding, learn spriting. Do something. Have u ever tried to make a single sprite? 'm not talking about a full character. At least respect the guy's time.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: 【ＭＦＧ】gui0007 on March 06, 2021, 03:40:28 am
Making a spriteswap of Kyo and calling it "Kusanagi" or "orochi Kyo" or whatever with just palete applied is lazy as Hell.
☝️ This, A thousand times this
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: jay_ts on March 06, 2021, 06:33:06 am
I'll just give my two-sense on this here.
There could have been a lot more done here. I know, sprites are really fucking hard to make, he took his time, I commend him for that, but again, there could have been more time spent on her and she would be a really good character. At the end of the day it's a Kim sprite-swap, and yeah I know that isn't the best start but maybe it would have been better if Kim was just a base. If she had all of Kim's moves and some of her own, that would have a much better look on her. Saying to just go back to the drawing board wouldn't really be good, but I think that this is a start. The foundation is set out, and with more sprites for custom moves that aren't Kim's and more decent coding, this can very well be a solid MI2 character.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: Umezono on March 06, 2021, 06:35:34 am
That... doesn't sound like a spriteswap, but a palette swap.
Spriteswaps usually mean an entirely different set of sprites fitted onto an existing character, in order to not have to code the character itself.
I get where Felo's coming from- I agree with his outlook that it's easy to criticize instead of actually producing your own work- but this really goes beyond that because this person is not doing their own work and releasing it like they did.
This character has NO readme with credits for Ikaruga, nor is it mentioned in the video or video description as Roman pointed out. This guy is a scumbag for that alone, regardless of how much work he put into the sprites. If people can get up in arms over credit on other characters, that definitely applies. He has a patreon to collect donations for this and he turned comments off on his video. So this guy deserves whatever criticism he gets.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: jay_ts on March 06, 2021, 06:39:13 am
That is true, no credits were given. I didn't really say that it was a good character to start off with, but despite all the really shady stuff he does, believe me that character can actually be good if someone actually put more work into that character. It could just be an edit by someone else even, I don't care. A decent MI2 character is all the people here want in the end anyways.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: AlexSin on March 06, 2021, 11:19:37 am
a Chae-Lim character being released (that is misplaced outside of the Edits section)
The character was found, hence it's in Found Releases. It doesn't matter that it's an edit, a spriteswap, a palette swap or anything like that. As long as it's found outside this forum, it goes into Found Releases.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 06, 2021, 12:53:47 pm
Oh, yes, I forgot. The dude pasting all those sprites in someone's character and NOT giving credit was VERY rude. That's something to be noted. I have not DLed this character, mostly because I don't see anything exciting about Chae Lim, so I didn't know about the readme thing. For example, when Chuchoryu used cvsnb sprites without giving credit. Also used my Viper's sheet without giving credit, till we all told him being rude and all. After that, the guy had a secondthought and started giving credit(sometimes). Everyone here knows my position about Chuchoryu: he's a guy with a lot of potential. And just him taking his time for doing stuff for people to play is something I respect. his work will be better or worse, but at least the guy does something.
Not a rant, not something to be taken against someone, just my humble opinion on here.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: 【ＭＦＧ】gui0007 on March 06, 2021, 04:27:54 pm
This character has NO readme with credits for Ikaruga
As i mentioned before Ume, Amnael used Ahuron's Kim not Ikaruga. Ikaruga just did a patch for this Kim.
And yes, like with Sylvie that he used Ikaruga's Benimaru, no credit given.
Also Ume, it is a spriteswap cause like with Sylvie, Amnael did all the Chae sprites from the scratch.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: IKEISLEGEND on March 06, 2021, 11:10:45 pm
Idk why yall in here hating on the Chae Lim the sprite work aint the best but its pretty good he was wrong for not giving credit to the coders for using their template but the sprites are cool yea they could be a lot better maybe he will update them who knows
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: Dawn de Era on March 09, 2021, 03:52:22 pm
he was wrong for not giving credit to the coders for using their template
It's... not a template. It's a whole character. Nothing was done on the code side of things that I am aware of.
And yes, the sprites are a good effort, and I would consider modifying and using them if I knew how to work with a KoF style, but they just feel traced over various other character animations, like Alice and Kim. They don't feel unique enough to Chae, and that's rather disappointing.
This character has NO readme with credits for Ikaruga, nor is it mentioned in the video or video description as Roman pointed out. This guy is a scumbag for that alone, regardless of how much work he put into the sprites. If people can get up in arms over credit on other characters, that definitely applies. He has a patreon to collect donations for this and he turned comments off on his video. So this guy deserves whatever criticism he gets.
Using this to resurface the fact that he showcased this character before and refused to distribute it unless he reached a subscriber milestone, which just feels wrong for the end product we got (as a character).
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: Bannana on March 09, 2021, 11:29:16 pm
Though I understand the thoughts on the sprite work, both positive and negative, the question here comes down to the question of the spirit of mugen and whether or not we should be allowed to monetize our work AND whether or not that work should be open and available freely without any sort of gatekeeping.
I have no comments on the YouTube aspect. For me that major issue here is the question of a Patreon: for spriting or for characters? If the former, whatever; if the latter, then it's problematic.
So I agree here with everyone but I'm more interested in this other issue of whether or not he is monetizing the work of another creator in the first place, because here's where the old open source debate reappears. Though it's Ahuron, Ikaruga appeared in the thread so he should be discussed in general as an example: he has a very strict use policy (http://ikrgmugen.web.fc2.com/policy.txt ); however, his work rests on fanwork that uses material without explicit permission of SNK, SO whose wishes do we respect? Does Ikaruga have a say in the matter at all, or may his work be sprite swapped, with or without credit, because he has no base to make any policy for the use of his work?
Despite the questions of the ramifications of ripping assets from a game and telling others not to use/modify your work, this creator is at fault for not respecting Ikaruga's wishes. If this were Mouser or Tora, a creator who is no longer active, it doesn't matter, but Ikaruga IS active.
Title: Re: Amnaelio released Chae-Lim
Post by: Kolossoni on March 10, 2021, 01:13:17 am
It's... decent I think. I don't get why it's getting so much criticism.
Sure, it looks like a blatant Kim ripoff but with some proper coding and faithful MI2 porting, she'll look and play better.