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Capcom vs. The World Beta (HUGE Update, 4 NEW Characters including Skullomania!) (Read 132068 times)

Started by Sean Altly, October 21, 2012, 09:47:14 am
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Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#61  October 22, 2012, 08:13:47 am
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Catering to low level players does nothing for them in the end (aside from maybe give them bad habits for other fighters).  This is a major problem with fighting games these days like SFxT and Persona 4 Arena that, instead of teaching the player the fundamentals and helping them, would rather hold their hand and hand them everything on a silver platter.  In life, nothing is handed to you, you just sort of learn from experience.  Fighting games are the exact same way.
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#62  October 22, 2012, 08:14:37 am
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Is Snake really that tough...?
I can't wait until tomorrow so I can test his AI myself.  >:)
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#63  October 22, 2012, 08:18:14 am
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Catering to low level players does nothing for them in the end (aside from maybe give them bad habits for other fighters).  This is a major problem with fighting games these days like SFxT and Persona 4 Arena that, instead of teaching the player the fundamentals and helping them, would rather hold their hand and hand them everything on a silver platter.  In life, nothing is handed to you, you just sort of learn from experience.  Fighting games are the exact same way.

A possible way to rectify that is by making beating higher levels more rewarding.

Edit:
I took a deeper look at Snake. He is indeed overpowered. Even his normals. C'mon guys, I may not know much of Metal Gear, but even I know he's not that strong.
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Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 08:25:53 am by AuraYoshi
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#64  October 22, 2012, 08:33:09 am
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PotS' Ryu's HP does 74 damage. Warusaki's Ryu does 98 (103 when Super Meter is full). JMorphman's Ken does 91 on his HP (the most recent of these releases). Taking all those values into account, considering Ryu/Ken are generally "standard" characters that aren't particularly weak or strong, the average HP would be about 87. Snake's HP does 80. His LP does 25. His HK does 81, LK is 23, etc. What's over-powered about that?

In fact, in my game, Ryu's HP does 92, which would put Snake's HP on the lower end of damage. As far as frame data, Snake's HP has 9 frames start-up, 2 frames active, 15 frames recovery. Compare to PotS' Ryu, 8 frames start-up, 4 frames active, 16 recovery. This all seems fine to me.

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Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 08:37:45 am by Sean Altly
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#65  October 22, 2012, 08:56:17 am
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Well here's to me derping and not making sure I know what I'm talking about. That's what happens whenever I don't consider the average normal attack damage.

But hey, if I could figure out how to beat Choujin's AI, I can figure out how to be Kamekaze's. Now I started figuring out his patterns. First thing I figured out is that you shouldn't rely on crouch guard too much, because once he sees that, he'll perform a jumping attack. Hell, he uses jumping attacks a lot, so I need to perfect may anti-airs. The reason why Kamekaze's AI is so hard is because it takes into account a common weakness of human players. Don't play too defensively, don't play to aggressively, and you'll do alright. Well, that's theoretically speaking anyway. But it works for me.

But anyway, I think that the grenades and guns are spammable enough that it wouldn't hurt to lower their damage a little.
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Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#66  October 22, 2012, 09:07:56 am
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I can do that, though it seems weird for a Grenade to do such low damage. It's in the interest of balance though, so I can do it. It's just funny in a way to me. :P

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Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#67  October 22, 2012, 09:37:55 am
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Don't know if you still wanted to give Ryu his SFEX Tatsu. I made some anims in my private edit to POTS Ryu (speed may  not be accurate cause of web) and thought I'd post them for you if you were interested. Edits by Balthazar. They're a lil choppy cause I had to work with existing sprites, but you can fix them if needed, especially since you can draw/sprite.

They're separated into 4 different anims like in the said game:

Start anim
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

2nd kick
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

3rd kick
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Final axe kick
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

The last jump sprite is the looping or -1 sprite in the anim. I'm sure you know how the Tatsu works in game, so you get the idea.

EDIT: Forgot this in my feedback, and may be wrong, but don't know if Ryu should be able to combo into his f+lp overhead
Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 09:55:18 am by Uncle Buckus
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#68  October 22, 2012, 10:06:44 am
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It would be cool to set him apart, I even think it would be cool if Ryu had that 4-part-imput Tatsu as his special, with Ken keeping the classic Tatsu. I made the Axe Kick as well for Kairi, if you would use it for Ryu I think I'm willing to re-sprite that for him (and add a few frames to make it more fluid).



ps. My main gripe with the sounds is mainly the Strong Punch sound. It sounds a lot weaker then the Strong Kick sound. Like, a lot.
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#69  October 22, 2012, 01:11:33 pm
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Testing today!

Kinda sad that CM Punk isn't in this version, but good job on the first release
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#70  October 22, 2012, 01:54:31 pm
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Good work on this beta release.
Tested it today, so far it is great! I like some of the ideas of the unique tactics.
Some feedback:
- Ryu and Ken's EX Hadoukens do not knock down the opponent on hit. I wonder if this was intentional?

- Some of the attacks miss when using Squall's Renzokuken to Rorschach at the very end of any corner of any stage. (Lionheart is still possible to do).

Once again thanks for the release. I wish you good luck for the next set of releases.  :)
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#71  October 22, 2012, 02:28:54 pm
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Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#72  October 22, 2012, 02:43:45 pm
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When Ken is hitting the opponent while rising with Shippu Jinraijyaku it looks really off. The way the opponent floats and that the hits don't cause any change to the opponents animation.

The FP sound effects seem weak. I see you have a different sound effect for all 4 attacks but I think the FP should sound closer to the FK.

The jungle stage should be edited for the game as well. Too much foliage blocking the view of the fight IMO.

Nice work over all. Still messing around with it.
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#73  October 22, 2012, 03:26:11 pm
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a simple superman infinite with hp>ice breath

another thing: personally i think the combo system is too similar to shades - which i think is based on the default juggle system?
Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 03:35:48 pm by c001357
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#74  October 22, 2012, 07:30:04 pm
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@Balthazar and Buckus

That was my original plan, I think I just forgot about it. I still have a version of the animation Balthazar did that doesn't have the axe kick on the end (so it basically looks like Sean's Tornado Kick). If you wanted to make an animation for it with the Axe Kick at the end, I would definitely use it, along with the 4-part command, just to set him apart some.

More feedback replies in bold:
Good work on this beta release.
Tested it today, so far it is great! I like some of the ideas of the unique tactics.
Some feedback:
- Ryu and Ken's EX Hadoukens do not knock down the opponent on hit. I wonder if this was intentional? I didn't know they were supposed to knock the opponent down, I can fix this though.

- Some of the attacks miss when using Squall's Renzokuken to Rorschach at the very end of any corner of any stage. (Lionheart is still possible to do). Hmmm, weird, I'll look into this, might just be Rorschach's hitboxes.

Once again thanks for the release. I wish you good luck for the next set of releases.  :) Thanks!

When Ken is hitting the opponent while rising with Shippu Jinraijyaku it looks really off. The way the opponent floats and that the hits don't cause any change to the opponents animation. Well, it's based on Warusaki's and if you check his out, you'll see it looks exactly the same, it's just that the hitsparks are so big/bright it masks it a bit.

The FP sound effects seem weak. I see you have a different sound effect for all 4 attacks but I think the FP should sound closer to the FK. Same sounds I've been using for all my characters since SHADEs 1. Funny that this is just coming up now, but I'll check it out.

The jungle stage should be edited for the game as well. Too much foliage blocking the view of the fight IMO. I agree, but I didn't want to bug JeanBureau about it since he was nice enough to let me use and make me some stages for the game. I'll check it out though.

Nice work over all. Still messing around with it. Thanks, I'm working on fixes for a bunch of things mentioned in this thread now.

*Garret Image* Whoops, when I changed the state numbers for some of his moves around to be more consistent with the other characters, I forgot to change a couple of them in his AI. He's trying to do the Baton Sweep special. Just got done fixing it, thanks.

a simple superman infinite with hp>ice breath Damn, I knew I should have taken out the ability to cancel into Ice Breath. Well, I'll be fixing this, don't worry.

another thing: personally i think the combo system is too similar to shades - which i think is based on the default juggle system? It is similar to SHADEs, and yeah, I just use the regular juggle points system rather than coding my own. It's always worked okay for me so I've never really bothered. This combo system is sort of my style at this point, and I really don't want to go and revamp the whole combo system this far into the game. I appreciate your feedback though!


Thanks again everyone!

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Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#75  October 22, 2012, 08:10:39 pm
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cancelling hk to cyclone results to this
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#76  October 22, 2012, 08:19:20 pm
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I don't have Warusaki's Ken but if it's like that in his then he made it look funky too =p

I need to try your Shades full game. Since I haven't I didn't know the sounds were like that in there too. If no one else is finding them odd I'd just write it off as me needing to get used to it!
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#77  October 22, 2012, 08:38:01 pm
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cancelling hk to cyclone results to this

When you say Cyclone, which move do you mean? You may want to identify by commands for Jin. If you mean Charge B,F+P (Typhoon), that was addressed earlier in the thread. If you mean DP+S (the super move), I can't replicate it which I'm guessing means when I fixed the Typhoon/B+HP issue from earlier, it fixed that problem as well. I found several moves that were causing him to float, it was an issue with allowing HK to be canceled when he was in the second half of the move (when he's actually in the air). Also, not sure about the debug. Was that caused by this specific problem as well? Or is it from something else?

I don't have Warusaki's Ken but if it's like that in his then he made it look funky too =p

I need to try your Shades full game. Since I haven't I didn't know the sounds were like that in there too. If no one else is finding them odd I'd just write it off as me needing to get used to it!

Well, I used PotS' Ryu as a base for Ryu, but Waru's Ken as a base for Ken's unique moves, so that's why it ended up like that. People generally like Waru's stuff so I just assumed it was supposed to look like that. I might put in CVS2 and see what it looks like there. Also, you're not the only one who thinks the HP/HK sounds are weird. If you try SHADEs, only play SHADEs 1 so you can see how much better SHADEs 2 is.

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Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#78  October 22, 2012, 09:00:55 pm
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Okay so I got to experiment a bit with this and got some feedback for ya.

I'm LOVING Snake now. I don't know what everyone is talking about but this version is WAAAAAAY better than the last release. Also loving the AI all around with most of the characters, yeah MAYBE you could nerf him damage wise just a little bit but don't change much, please. I was sick of him not being able to rape my ass, I mean come on he's fucking Solid Snake! Now I don't have a chance to pull it up and try it right now and I may just be retarded but it doesn't seem like he has his classic PSX MGS combo of the punch-punch-spin kick. And you should have it where if he finishes the round with the choke hold that it plays the neck snap sound from MGS1. . . .unless that happens and I haven't done it yet.

Now Mr. X....tsk tsk tsk....Sean you nerfed him WAY too much man. He was near perfect with the update you did after RE:ORC came out. THAT felt like a Tyrant, but he feels too weak now. . . especially his armor. . .I don't know it's bugging the hell out of me.

Jin Saotome? NERF his fucking ass. Dear GOD. He does WAAAAAAY too much damage way too quickly. I had so much trouble with him the first time I tried arcade because he was my first opponent. Raped my ass with every character I brought at him.

I don't know if it's been addressed yet but Lynn's....I think Hyper...the launching fire kick followed by the downwards fire kick?? Yet can't ever get that second part to hit no matter what.

Superman...well first I hate Superman...never liked the god-modding asshole but hey whatever. You my friend have made a version I can STAND in MUGEN. Good size and move list, good job. Only thing I can think of is MAYBE he should have a TINY bit of ex armor against weak projectile attacks? Like Snake's SOCOM, Sups IS the man of steel and I can't see him flinching from a gunshot. Eh whatever.

You have made the ONLY MK character I allow in my own MUGEN. All I can ask is....when the hell you doing Scorps?

Haven't really got to play with this enough but it's looking REALLY good, so keep up the awesome work man. I noticed a few other things, but I'm pretty sure they've been addressed already.
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#79  October 22, 2012, 09:23:15 pm
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I've played it a while, but I've only been, Ryu and Superman so far. It's so much fun though, and a really nice job. I also like the music you've chosen. Thanks a lot for this beta.
Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#80  October 22, 2012, 09:32:33 pm
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Replies in bold:
Okay so I got to experiment a bit with this and got some feedback for ya.

I'm LOVING Snake now. I don't know what everyone is talking about but this version is WAAAAAAY better than the last release. Also loving the AI all around with most of the characters, yeah MAYBE you could nerf him damage wise just a little bit but don't change much, please. I was sick of him not being able to rape my ass, I mean come on he's fucking Solid Snake! Now I don't have a chance to pull it up and try it right now and I may just be retarded but it doesn't seem like he has his classic PSX MGS combo of the punch-punch-spin kick. And you should have it where if he finishes the round with the choke hold that it plays the neck snap sound from MGS1. . . .unless that happens and I haven't done it yet. That's a good idea, simple addition but a nice nod to the character.

Now Mr. X....tsk tsk tsk....Sean you nerfed him WAY too much man. He was near perfect with the update you did after RE:ORC came out. THAT felt like a Tyrant, but he feels too weak now. . . especially his armor. . .I don't know it's bugging the hell out of me. This is the exact same version though. I didn't nerf him any way since the last public release. EDIT: Actually, I just remembered that I brought his health down from 1100 to 1000, because I figured he didn't need a health buff if he has super armor. But, that's the only thing I changed.

Jin Saotome? NERF his fucking ass. Dear GOD. He does WAAAAAAY too much damage way too quickly. I had so much trouble with him the first time I tried arcade because he was my first opponent. Raped my ass with every character I brought at him. I'm going to need specifics, unless you mean lower his damage output in a general way. I thought his MVC moveset might be a bit over-the-top compared to everyone else, but I wanted to keep him familiar. This is the first I've heard of him being this OP, just a few comments here and there that he's powerful.

I don't know if it's been addressed yet but Lynn's....I think Hyper...the launching fire kick followed by the downwards fire kick?? Yet can't ever get that second part to hit no matter what. On anybody? I've tested the character out numerous times, and it hits plenty for me. It might not be hitting one or two people due to collisions, but I would have noticed if it never hit at all. I'll look into it either way, but the problem has ot be more specific because, like I said, it's hitting plenty for me. In fact, I just tried it on every character, and it's not connecting with Ryu, but connects fine with everyone else. I'll fix the issue with Ryu.

Superman...well first I hate Superman...never liked the god-modding asshole but hey whatever. You my friend have made a version I can STAND in MUGEN. Good size and move list, good job. Only thing I can think of is MAYBE he should have a TINY bit of ex armor against weak projectile attacks? Like Snake's SOCOM, Sups IS the man of steel and I can't see him flinching from a gunshot. Eh whatever. I know I didn't say anything about it here or include anything with the game, but in his project thread I established that since this isn't happening on our Earth, he's not being fueled by Earth's yellow sun and is a bit weaker. The final release will have an intro and some story information for the characters that will explain that.

You have made the ONLY MK character I allow in my own MUGEN. All I can ask is....when the hell you doing Scorps? At some point, I have been itching to do him recently, but I've been busy with the beta and with sprite commission obligations. Glad you're looking forward to him!

Haven't really got to play with this enough but it's looking REALLY good, so keep up the awesome work man. I noticed a few other things, but I'm pretty sure they've been addressed already. Thanks a lot, I appreciate the feedback and opinions. It always helps.


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Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 09:41:28 pm by Sean Altly