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KoF XV (Read 805972 times)

Started by Magma MK-II, December 06, 2018, 01:30:24 pm
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walt

Re: KoF XV
#661  March 12, 2021, 02:32:37 am
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Kolossoni

Re: KoF XV
#662  March 12, 2021, 02:34:37 am
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Byakko

Re: KoF XV
#663  March 12, 2021, 02:35:09 am
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Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:20:44 am
You also state that 4 years is not much, but it's actually the opposite.
Mortal Kombat is an excellent example of this.
MKX was released in 2015 while MK11 was released in 2019.
Here's the graphical comparison:
None of that is relevant. Do graphics evolve as an entire generation of console passes ? Of course. Does that mean that a middle-gen game shouldn't come out at the end of the gen ? What the fuck of course not. There's nothing wrong with a middle-gen-tech game coming out at the end of the generation. Who the fuck cares that other companies can transform how a game looks over a generation if they keep pouring money into it.
"NRS is not an AAA company" lol yeah right have you not heard of Warner Bros who have been bankrolling the game since they bought NRS.
Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:34:37 am
Just because a parent company is rich, doesn't mean the studio is.
The parent company being rich doesn't mean the studio is rich, but if the studio has an open line to the parent company's bank vault it absolutely does mean the studio is rich. This is not the case for SNK.

Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:20:44 am
Also, If you search on twitter and look at many of the reactions made by these people, you see them mocking the franchise as "dead" or being "irrelevant". They don't take the game seriously anymore as they used to unlike KOF'98 or KOF'02.
The franchise died in 2001, then in 2002, then in 2006, then after XIII. Anyone who claims that XV existing means the franchise is dead is just plain out of touch with reality.

Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:20:44 am
Sure, SNK's marketing is a problem but KOF: ALL STAR was a massive hit around the world and it wasn't due to some success at the marketing department at Netmarble, it was the franchise's nostalgic elements that sold the game.
Evidence of the contrary : there are other KoF mobile games. They don't do well. And you barely know they exist.
Netmarble has had franchises like Marvel and Seven Deadly Sins and a bunch of other massive IPs, they know how to advertise their shit. I wouldn't have touched KoFAS if it had been made by Tencent.
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Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 02:41:29 am by Byakko

walt

Re: KoF XV
#664  March 12, 2021, 02:35:20 am
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Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:20:44 am
I meant in the sense that KOF XIV's graphics (despite being released in 2016) was closer to a PS3 game than a PS4 one.
That would mean it was a a whole generation of console behind its competitors.
Can't argue with this, it's true. SNK made a pixel art game when Capcom put SF4 out, and now it's making a SF4-looking game when SF5 exists.

And that's O.K.

Kolossoni

Re: KoF XV
#665  March 12, 2021, 02:41:58 am
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Byakko said, March 12, 2021, 02:35:09 am
Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:20:44 am
You also state that 4 years is not much, but it's actually the opposite.
Mortal Kombat is an excellent example of this.
MKX was released in 2015 while MK11 was released in 2019.
Here's the graphical comparison:
None of that is relevant. Do graphics evolve as an entire generation of console passes ? Of course. Does that mean that a middle-gen game shouldn't come out at the end of the gen ? What the fuck of course not. There's nothing wrong with a middle-gen-tech game coming out at the end of the generation. Who the fuck cares that other companies can transform how a game looks over a generation if they keep pouring money into it.
"NRS is not an AAA company" lol yeah right have you not heard of Warner Bros who have been bankrolling the game since they bought NRS.

Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:20:44 am
Also, If you search on twitter and look at many of the reactions made by these people, you see them mocking the franchise as "dead" or being "irrelevant". They don't take the game seriously anymore as they used to unlike KOF'98 or KOF'02.
The franchise died in 2001, then in 2002, then in 2006, then after XIII. Anyone who claims that XV existing means the franchise is dead don't seem to understand a thing about how the world works.

Like I said, NRS is only backed by Warner Bros (a monster of a company) but that doesn't mean the company itself is Triple A.
It's on its way, but it sure ain't close enough to be even considered a "Triple A"

To your point regarding graphics.
Yes, graphics shouldn't be the medium on deciding whether a game has good qualities or not.
World of Warcraft is a great example, sure.

But you also need to realize that games like KOF have always been the laughing stock of 3D modelling.
KOF MI was mediocre at best and XIV was tragic.

They look tacky and yeah some people may enjoy the more retro perspective of visual art, but with other fighting games such as SF, Tekken, MK, SoulCalibur, Injustice, Guilty Gear, Blazblue dominating the market, I just don't understand why SNK still forces itself to compete with them.

They should've stayed doing 2D sprite work than doing 3D.

Trying to save a few cents is starting to bite them in the ass.

walt

Re: KoF XV
#666  March 12, 2021, 02:44:53 am
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Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:41:58 am
They look tacky and yeah some people may enjoy the more retro perspective of visual art, but with other fighting games such as SF, Tekken, MK, SoulCalibur, Injustice, Guilty Gear, Blazblue dominating the market, I just don't understand why SNK still forces itself to compete with them.
hahahaha

Because it's a free world and they're still making money man!

Byakko

Re: KoF XV
#667  March 12, 2021, 02:48:25 am
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Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:41:58 am
Like I said, NRS is only backed by Warner Bros (a monster of a company) but that doesn't mean the company itself is Triple A.
And like I said, NRS being backed by WB doesn't mean that it is an AAA company, but that doesn't stop NRS from being an AAA company anyway because of the money WB pours into it. Stop talking in hypothetical. NRS and MK are massive names nowadays, it's absolutely an AAA franchise, it's easily on the level of Street Fighter for the public at large since the last couple of games.

KoFMI doesn't count. XIV was their first 3D game.
And 2D hasn't sold shit in years (not at the levels of SF and MK and Tekken), especially for the amount of work it represents now compared to 3D. Last time they tried that, they ran out of money in the middle of the game and got XII out and then XIII was "XII if we hadn't ran out of money last year". 15 is "here's 14 again now that we learned how to do 3D".
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Kolossoni

Re: KoF XV
#668  March 12, 2021, 02:48:32 am
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walt said, March 12, 2021, 02:44:53 am
Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:41:58 am
They look tacky and yeah some people may enjoy the more retro perspective of visual art, but with other fighting games such as SF, Tekken, MK, SoulCalibur, Injustice, Guilty Gear, Blazblue dominating the market, I just don't understand why SNK still forces itself to compete with them.
hahahaha

Because it's a free world and they're still making money man!

I mean, hopefully man.

I'm no SNK-hater. Just wanted to make that clear.
I make only SNK characters in MUGEN for god's sake.

My frustration is based on something so minimal and basic yet it takes so long for SNK to satisfy it.

On the bright side, I enjoyed XIV's gameplay.
Hopefully XV shares that at least.

Jmorphman

Re: KoF XV
#669  March 12, 2021, 02:53:24 am
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walt said, March 12, 2021, 02:35:20 am
Can't argue with this, it's true. SNK made a pixel art game when Capcom put SF4 out, and now it's making a SF4-looking game when SF5 exists.

And that's O.K.
I dunno, I think XV's overall aesthetic is way better than SFIV (and SFxTK, for that matter), no question. It's a massive improvement compared to XIV, which I still wouldn't describe as looking like a PS3 game either!

Certain animations and the lack of "oomph" in any and all hits still unfortunately don't feel up to par with SFIV, though. And I'd say that's the most important part.

Byakko said, March 12, 2021, 12:49:54 am
I don't understand the "it's 2021 not 2017". 4 years aren't a big deal, the technology didn't make such a massive leap forward that you'd be able to tell from graphics unless 2021 means you were somehow expecting next gen tech. A game with SamSho's visual tech, middle-of-the-generation tech, is completely fine, you don't need a game that is this year's absolute latest top tech (it's 2021 sure but it's only March, man).
100%. So many problems in the industry are caused by the graphics of AAA level games being the bare minimum of what is considered acceptable by mainstream audiences, and so every studio is out killing themselves to provide comparable or better visuals.

Kolossoni

Re: KoF XV
#670  March 12, 2021, 02:54:12 am
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Byakko said, March 12, 2021, 02:48:25 am
Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:41:58 am
Like I said, NRS is only backed by Warner Bros (a monster of a company) but that doesn't mean the company itself is Triple A.
And like I said, NRS being backed by WB doesn't mean that it is an AAA company, but that doesn't stop NRS from being an AAA company anyway because of the money WB pours into it. Stop talking in hypothetical. NRS and MK are massive names nowadays, it's absolutely an AAA franchise, it's easily on the level of Street Fighter for the public at large since the last couple of games.

KoFMI doesn't count. XIV was their first 3D game.
And 2D hasn't sold shit in years (not at the levels of SF and MK and Tekken), especially for the amount of work it represents now compared to 3D. Last time they tried that, they ran out of money in the middle of the game and got XII out and then XIII was "XII if we hadn't ran out of money last year". 15 is "here's 14 again now that we learned how to do 3D".

Just wanted to point out that SNK tried doing multiple 3D games before. I dunno why you're giving MI a pass.

Maximum Impact series were developed and produced by SNK.
Sure it's not part of the main franchise, but it still is the works of SNK.

They had 3 games just with MI.
MI, MI2, MIA.

They also had a SamSho 3D game called Samurai Shodown: Edge of Destiny.
That was also a failure too.

So a total of FOUR 3D titles made by SNK all ending up in commercial failure while their most recent 2D game winning multiple awards for being one of the best games of the year.
Yet they thought it was smart to switch to 3D to save a few bucks.

Sad really...

walt

Re: KoF XV
#671  March 12, 2021, 02:54:24 am
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Look man, check this one out, I promise you it's a good read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_of_Fighters_XIV#Reception

The story it tells in restrospect is that the game made good money for SNK, that it was critically well received, and that it got criticism for looking ugly. They're fixing that, and KOF XV is on track to be what 13 was to 12. It will more than likely be a game to be played for years to come, I'm sure

Kolossoni

Re: KoF XV
#672  March 12, 2021, 03:00:27 am
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walt said, March 12, 2021, 02:54:24 am
Look man, check this one out, I promise you it's a good read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_of_Fighters_XIV#Reception

The story it tells in restrospect is that the game made good money for SNK, that it was critically well received, and that it got criticism for looking ugly. They're fixing that, and KOF XV is on track to be what 13 was to 12. It will more than likely be a game to be played for years to come, I'm sure

Though I have my doubts, I totally agree.

SNK always has this weird love-hate relationship with me that they disappoint me in the very beginning yet satisfies me at the very last.
XII and XIII are great examples.

Let's hope XV or even the next game becomes that very game that redeems my love for the franchise again.

Byakko

Re: KoF XV
#673  March 12, 2021, 03:00:52 am
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Oh yeah, I forgot about SamSho Sen, that was their big jab at modern 3D and it bombed (there's also the two SS64 games and Warriors rage but that's too far back)

MI was made by Noise Factory then MI2 was the SNK Playmore era, which was a weird time. I'm pretty sure the current team (which is just the core SNK staff I think and none of the old satellite company like Noise Factory ?) doesn't have anything left from that period. XIV was starting over from scratch and it shows.

(with that being said, didn't SNK actually use to make 3D models and animate that before spriting over it even for the 2D period, at least in the later games ? They did have experience in doing rough models and animations, but not polishing it for commercial purpose, which, once again, shows in XIV, and some of the complex 2D anims in later games were clearly made over 3D animations)
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 03:12:16 am by Byakko

walt

Re: KoF XV
#674  March 12, 2021, 03:08:53 am
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Byakko said, March 12, 2021, 03:00:52 am
MI was made by Noise Factory then MI2 was the SNK Playmore era, which was a weird time. I'm pretty sure the current team (which is just the core SNK staff I think and none of the old satellite company like Noise Factory ?) doesn't have anything left from that period. XIV was starting over from scratch and it shows.
For sure a weird time. and KOF MI may not have been super successful, but those were some pretty fun and engaging games, and the soundtrack has all sorts of influences that made it very memorable. Particularly KOF MI2 is of my favorite KOFs ever.

And I agree with you that they have NOTHING to salvage from this 3D adventure almost 10 years apart coming into the dev cycle for XIV.

This is also an interesting read about budgets
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_of_Fighters_XIV#Engine

Magma MK-II

Re: KoF XV
#675  March 12, 2021, 05:34:25 am
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Kolossoni said, March 12, 2021, 02:20:44 am
At least KOF XIII looked visually pleasing and one of the main reasons why it did so well was thanks to its clean aesthetics and smooth gameplay.

KoF XIII never did well. It (and by extension XII) was a financial disaster for SNK, they ran out of money while developing XII and had to release it in its obvious beta state just to be able to afford to finish the game. XIII took almost a decade to even pay itself, during which time SNK had to pump out pachinkos just to stay afloat.

yaret

Re: KoF XV
#676  March 12, 2021, 06:30:03 am
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KOF never was a visual game like capcom always was so we have  good examples when capcom made Capcom vs SNK and SNK made SNK vs. Capcom pocket edition, well witch game will you buy first? if youve never played a snk game, of course the capcom's version so I think that wasn't good for the company in the future buyers, no matter how good your game is, it must be cool on visual contents too. that was the reason almost MK was gonna died but thanks good SNK are changing their mind with KOF15
Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 06:35:47 am by yaret

Mysticus92

Re: KoF XV
#677  March 12, 2021, 11:03:14 am
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GalFord

Re: KoF XV
#678  March 12, 2021, 06:50:21 pm
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The trickle of characters is kinda, meh... but hey, with the World being hit by the pandemic even companies like Capcom have had to adapt and adjust the releases of stuff.  Regardless, I'll happily buy XV on release. I do which the sound effects felt a bit meatier... but then, I went back to '94 for a bit and that still sounds pretty brutal. :)

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Re: KoF XV
#679  March 12, 2021, 07:09:35 pm
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Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 07:18:20 pm by videoman

Byakko

Re: KoF XV
#680  March 12, 2021, 07:12:30 pm
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Well that's a better look than ever at how weird that haircut is lol. Short all over, except super long at the very bottom on the neck. I don't even know how it gets thick enough to braid.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
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