The Mugen Fighters Guild

Forum Particulars => Information => Topic started by: Sepp on August 26, 2007, 06:48:19 PM

Title: MUGEN agitation
Post by: Sepp on August 26, 2007, 06:48:19 PM
This was originally a post made at INFINITY (link dead):

AngstyMeierLink said:
All those things you [AngstyMeierLink was not talking to me] mentioned up there, you take for granted. I doubt very much the creators of those things would be proud to know someone like you thinks so low of their hard work. If you ask me, its amazing those things exist when theres so many people like you out there thinking the way you do.
Yes it is! Really amazing.

Or rather, it would be really amazing if those developers actually did think like "the MUGEN creators" and still kept on releasing their software and updates despite the countless idiots in the world who are not grateful, who will have no idea nor the slightest interest in who authored the the program they're using, who will demand help and upgrades and kick and scream like they own your soul if nobody satisfies their requests . . .

Sturgeon's Revelation or even simpler: Murphy's Law. I think maybe those developers are aware of that.

You as developer can very well threaten to activate the inbuilt self-destruction mechanism of your incredibly useful and otherwise unrestricted piece of software for everyone, should anbody every dare to do XYZ.

XYZ still has a good chance of happening. The more users, the higher the probability . . .

Do you activate the self-destruction or don't you? You can try, and are free to place "restrictions" on your stuff, but then when XYZ actually occurs and that'd be the end of the world for you . . . if this was the mindset of everyone, then, yes, it would be amazing to still have all the free software that we got, regardless.

Ergo, maybe not everybody thinks about this like "the MUGEN creators," and that's why we have more such things, despite all the morons:

This software is distributed in the hope that it will be useful
Perhaps if only a single person out of five hundred in three years enjoys it, it has already been worth distributing in the eyes of the developer, the muscian, the artist, the writer, the poet, the manufacturer, . . . the MUGEN author?

AngstyMeierLink said:
I know what respect is, for I have created many things, and been taken advantage of by selfish people like you [AngstyMeierLink was not talking to me] before. And I very rarely say this, but personally I find your ungrateful views offensive.
Understandably, certainly!

But even so, even though ungratefulness can be offensive each time it occurs, and can insult or hurt or whatever . . . I mean, yes, it sucks. Beyond question. Be cool if it didn't happen.

But do or can you expect, count on it not to happen? Do you actually say to yourself, "The way it should be, I get no idiots bugging me with XYZ . . . and should I ever, the world's not fit for my contributions and if I can't change it forcibly I will withdraw from it. I'm not producing my art for the world anyway, I'm doing it 'cause I'm an artist."

Sometimes that's what "the MUGEN creator" appears to say.

Often, they are stronger, endure more than one "insult" and stand to suffer a bunch of XYZs before raging against the unfair universe. But at some point:

"you betraaaaaaaaaaayed me too often now! Enough is enough, a single person can only take so much shit before being fed up. You're utterly terrible and I leave bitter and remain with nothing but despite for you, community. You can go die for all I care!"

O_o' Bad things happen. Your will is not guaranteed to extend to anything beyond yourself. Wanting some measure of "control" over what happens with your work, yes, yes, yes dammit, yes!

And it is too idealistic to expect everyone to "not care" what happens with their stuff . . . but don't you see that this wanting to have control--even just a tiny little bit concerning XYZ--is your unreachable utopia?

Frank Herbert said:
The more control, the more that requires control. This is the road to chaos.
You will not achieve it. Play MUGEN police on every board and fight to your dying breath, You Will Not Achieve It to your satisfaction. There might always be someone who leaks your private beta version.

Politicians nowadays want to Protect Us against "the Terrorists" by monitoring all they can, having cameras everywhere imaginable. To make the Internet more "secure" and unique identifying "more reliable" and to kill spam and uncover Terrorist online plottings . . .

For every force there is a counter-force. They achieve very little--but in the meantime, make it worse for all of us.

Matthew Woodring Stover, In the Sorrows ( said:
"It's all . . . ugly. Everything. Ugly damn world, kid."

Hari shrugged. "Compared to what?"
Title: Re: MUGEN agitation
Post by: Sepp on August 26, 2007, 06:49:34 PM
This was originally a post at Infantry ( said:
There is more than likely some viewpoint I haven't considered yet and I would like to have that mentioned in a reply to me. I just want to know what everything's about.


It's "I don't want my char to be uploaded somewhere, or leaked, or modified, or something else. That's my will, because I'd really rather have as much control over these things I've programmed as possible. Because.

"What's wrong with that? I'm not asking that much. Just respect me and don't do this/that/etc."

That's all.

But these are the same people who use emulators to play games the manufacturers would rather have them buy, who listen to music files the music industry would rather have them pay for, who read manga and watch anime shared among themselves and their friends over the Internet--

yet for where they themselves are concerned, they expect Their Way or the highway. Or else.

It's completely ridiculous. They view themselves as the intelligent ones, they are those who make cool MUGEN things, and they should know the reality of these things better than that. Is it wrong of you to want X or Y or Z, just a litte control over something you've made?? Probably not.

But is it realistic or worth it in the context of a non-profit hobby like MUGEN?!? Not at all.

So you try to change this reality that doesn't please you? You're doomed.

Orders not backed by force are merely suggestions, and you have infinitely less power than the music, film or game industry.

Go on. Put up disclaimers and "license agreements" on your page. Threaten and do whatever else you can think of if you feel like it. But then when the case you wanted to prevent actually happens, don't knock yourself out over it. There's more useful things you can do with your time: this is a fight you cannot win.
Title: Re: MUGEN agitation
Post by: Sepp on August 26, 2007, 06:50:20 PM
This was originally a post at Infantry ( said:
Are you suggesting that creators shouldn't get personal when someone does something that is the equivalent of spitting in their face?

Nope. I am just saying that it's not a must. I am saying I wouldn't, and a few others as well. Indeed, it wouldn't be anything like "spitting in their face" for some people, you see? I am therefore objecting to said:
If you're a decent creator and your characters are extremely well done, you SHOULD care if a lil punk takes it and sticks it without saying who made it.

I am not saying you SHOULD NOT care, or that you SHOULD NOT have a "right" to be pissed about something that pisses you off. How could I? What I am saying is:

Different things piss different people off. And not all "creators" would be pissed off by the same things. Why should they? It takes all kinds of people to make a world. That's why I can't agree when somebody claims that "If you're a decent creators [...] you SHOULD" -- it implies that if you DON'T, if maybe you don't care that much when someone else puts your files on their hosting space without mentioning your name next to to, then you can't be a "decent creator," which sounds like "then you're less worth" or something like that.

That's what I'm objecting to.

I know this is the wild wild Internet, but that's still an insult no matter how you look at it.  They've got a right to get steamed, it's their work.

And I know it is not an insult from all angles. I know this because it's not an insult for me, for instance. Yes, you have every right to get steamed over something that you really don't like, and if that something happens to be others hosting your work, okay, to each his own.

Get angry. Fine. I think it's not going to do you or anybody else any good--just the opposite--, but that's just my opinion on the matter and it doesn't mean that it's The Truth or that I say that you have no right to be angered. You do.

But other people might get angry over other things and not be bothered at all by something like this. Because it sounded like you (err, not you, I mean "a Z cAL") make it mandatory to be pissed off by "unauthorized" distribution, I objected.

Because it's not.