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Koopakoot is sent to jail (Read 13642 times)

Started by Bastard Mami, October 20, 2014, 01:51:11 am
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#21  October 20, 2014, 04:26:27 am
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#22  October 20, 2014, 04:28:39 am
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Watch your fucking mouth, UrbaneVirtuoso, you're gonna offend someone!

Attention Everyone: The "Fucking Jesuszilla" Law is now in effect.

All posts hereforth must contain at least three fucking uses of the word "fuck".

Yes, goddammit.


Also, one of the main problems I have with this article is that it mentions "schoolgirl outfit." So is that illegal now if those outfits are part of someone's fetish or fantasy?

This, however, made me go, "OK that's pretty fucked up," with regards to the accused's activities:
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This marks Hoque's second conviction regarding possession of drawn child pornography. He was prosecuted in 2008 for possessing "Tomb Raider-style” computer-generated pictures of fictional children. A jury convicted him on six counts of making “indecent pseudo-photographs” of children, another first in the U.K. Hoque denied these charges but was required to complete a sex offender treatment program.

Assuming of course they mean 3D images.
Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 04:32:24 am by Jesuszilla
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#23  October 20, 2014, 04:32:02 am
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i think it might be something lost in translation here. the ruling by the judge only mentions the sexual activity. the images were probably kids in school girl outfits having sex. or depicted these girls in these outfits either acting suggestively/exposing themselves. we dont know, so we shouldnt make snap judgements like that.

loli child porn is fucke dup in general because its child porn, im kind of surprised anyone can defend it.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#24  October 20, 2014, 04:34:54 am
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Right, but again, is that really a crime? That's a pretty common turn-on, and just because someone is drawn wearing one doesn't necessarily mean they're underage, even if they are flat as a board (another preference some people have).


And when it comes to virtual depictions, underage in terms of actual character age really means nothing when we have characters like Yoko Littner who's 14 despite pretty much looking and acting like an adult.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#25  October 20, 2014, 04:36:45 am
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it doesnt matter, the law is made so that if it appears to be underage it is assumed to be underage. thats why apparently most people who draw cartoon porn (outside of japan, where loli porn is legal) make sure they denote their characters are over 18 if there is any ambiguity.

if you really didnt want your over 18 porn to be confused as child porn, you would take steps to make sure its not. otherwise youre inviting it.

on yoko, yeah in japan it doesnt matter, cause they dont have laws on it.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#26  October 20, 2014, 04:38:32 am
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But isn't that in itself too ambiguous?
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#27  October 20, 2014, 04:40:40 am
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lol man when it comes to child porn, theyre not gonna leave a lot of room for loopholes. if you want to enjoy drawing/collecting your child looking over 18 characters, your best bet is to move to japan cause everyone else i probably going to see it as child porn. the law isnt made to debate on that ambiguity, its made to make sure no actual child pron slips past on said ambiguity. sometimes it fucks you over but the law isnt perfect, no law is.

in this case, im pretty damn sure those girls in the outfits wer eunderage if theyre among other clearly underage girls having sex.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#28  October 20, 2014, 04:41:48 am
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it doesnt matter, the law is made so that if it appears to be underage it is assumed to be underage. thats why apparently most people who draw cartoon porn (outside of japan, where loli porn is legal) make sure they denote their characters are over 18 if there is any ambiguity.
if you really didnt want your over 18 porn to be confused as child porn, you would take steps to make sure its not. otherwise youre inviting it.
on yoko, yeah in japan it doesnt matter, cause they dont have laws on it.

Well, actually, most laws are there to prevent victimization of specific individuals. In this case the individuals were completely imaginary and no real person was victimized.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#29  October 20, 2014, 04:42:09 am
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lol man when it comes to child porn, theyre not gonna leave a lot of room for loopholes. if you want to enjoy drawing/collecting your child looking over 18 characters, your best bet is to move to japan cause everyone else i probably going to see it as child porn. the law isnt made to debate on that ambiguity, its made to make sure no actual child pron slips past on said ambiguity. sometimes it fucks you over but the law isnt perfect, no law is.

in this case, im pretty damn sure those girls in the outfits wer eunderage if theyre among other clearly underage girls having sex.

I see. I think they outlawed it there recently, too.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#30  October 20, 2014, 04:43:50 am
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it doesnt matter, the law is made so that if it appears to be underage it is assumed to be underage. thats why apparently most people who draw cartoon porn (outside of japan, where loli porn is legal) make sure they denote their characters are over 18 if there is any ambiguity.
if you really didnt want your over 18 porn to be confused as child porn, you would take steps to make sure its not. otherwise youre inviting it.
on yoko, yeah in japan it doesnt matter, cause they dont have laws on it.

Well, actually, most laws are there to prevent victimization of specific individuals. In this case the individuals were completely imaginary and no real person was victimized.
this is a valid point and one hotly debated, the aclu also takes this position. however the supreme court in the us at least rejected the argument stating that even fictional material promotes an attitude or environment which encourages or promotes victimizing children, therefore it is illegal.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#31  October 20, 2014, 04:51:34 am
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I can see that; it's definitely logical.

I also accept that some men only get turned on by Hentai and not real women. I can't say that the situation automatically creates that kind of environment, and in this guy's case, it really seems like he's more dedicated to imagery than actual children, but there could easily be a loophole used by predacious individuals to encourage their thrills.

I'm on the fence only because I wonder if this can actually be evaluated on a case by case basis? I'm guessing we can't because you never know when it's too late, and being more strict nips the issue in the bud and protects children from the start.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#32  October 20, 2014, 04:56:10 am
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I also accept that some men only get turned on by Hentai and not real women. I can't say that the situation automatically creates that kind of environment, and in this guy's case, it really seems like he's more dedicated to imagery than actual children, but there could easily be a loophole used by predacious individuals to encourage their thrills.
though this might not be the truth for many people, as i stated before, the rationale is that indulging in pornography of little children (andd these drawings will apparently depict VERY young children) implicitly means you are okay with this happening with children. they may not be real, but they are still children.

also i did some research, this illegal in the uk as it fails a "depravity test" in which this material is seen as sufficient enough to incite depraved acts towards children
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#33  October 20, 2014, 05:02:56 am
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But what if the material in question does not focus on a character that could be perceived as underage? What if the focus is on a character who visibly possesses traits that could undoubtedly be perceived as adult? Yet in one frame or page, for instance, they show the underage character? This happens in a lot of doujinshi.

What if the person in possession of this ALSO did not focus on the underage character? The depravity test would not apply, so should this person be criminalized?
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#34  October 20, 2014, 05:07:50 am
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well to clear things out, your questions do not apply to this guy, its clear his images focused only on children.

a) when you say it does not focus on the underage character but the underage character is still in clear view participating in these acts, yes i would say its stillc hild porn.
b) if the character is canonically underage and/or stated to be so it is child porn even if they have "adult features. " if they have adult features and are not stated to be adult, i am not sure. i will have to look that up
c) if the person has child porn but is focusing on other aspects of the child porn he is still in possession of something with child porn in it. and thats just an offense no matter his intentions. the sole idea that this material exists creates an atmosphere in which somebody could find and be incited. the point isnt that it does- its that it can. your intentions do not matter, the stuff itself is seen as illegal so unless you are conducting some governemnt sanctioned study or something you should not have it. (really this argument can apply to possession of any contraband material, like drugs.)

also doujinshi again is protected by japanese law afaik so it doesnt matter. if you have it tho, and live in uk/us and it has child porn in it, you are violating a us/uk law.
Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 05:12:32 am by Gaza Haganer
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#35  October 20, 2014, 05:13:32 am
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Well for B, the problem with that is that they could be aging up the character in order to depict them as an adult. I'm not talking about things like drawing toddlers with breasts, that's fucking sick and disgusting. I'm talking about aging up the character.

No doujinshi is canon, either, (outside of maybe Tsukihime) so it pretty much takes place outside the space-time continuum or whatever of the series. Again, I don't think there should be a problem with this.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#36  October 20, 2014, 05:17:15 am
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well if the character is canonically over age, but they age them down, then its just child porn. (canon really doesnt matter unless there is ambiguity- like id imagine if someone drew porn of a copyrighted character as is (and no age was specified) and the owner of said char came forth and said shes of age, itd be permissible. what does matter is if the character was intended to be drawn as a child and was clearly drawn to be so/indicated to be so.)

aging up the character shouldnt be a problem, if theyre over 18, theyre over 18. why else do people say "EVERYONE IS OVER 18." in their rule 34 fanart and shit. drawing pics of kids having sex is just frowned upon in general lol. i imagine even japanese artists do this stuff if they dont want to be associated with loli artists.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#37  October 20, 2014, 05:20:35 am
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if we go by the precedent on previous cases, the characters are regualr manga style drawings, so something like  one of the ndue scenes from akame ga kill can get you jailed, someone deducted that the places that sell the so called child porn are themselves legal but the guy who owned that stuff got jailed so the case is nto as clear cut as you make it to be.

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And he pointed to some of the pictures which were available on legal sites.

He added: “It’s clear that that material is available on a legitimate website in this country.

“There’s no indication at all on the web page that these would fall foul of any legislation in a particular country.”

so basically, you can go to an uk website/bookstore, buy gantz, then get jailed because 17 year old kurono has a sex scene in it, all while trusting that somehting that you bought at a legal site was perfectly legal.
Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 05:28:54 am by [MFG]maximilianjenus
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#38  October 20, 2014, 05:28:06 am
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of course its not clear cut, we havent actually seen the drawings have we? but im sure that if it was serious enough for the guy to have been arrested, it was probably drawings of young looking children with childrens features. even in manga style drawings most people can tell when someones an adult or at least over 18 unless its something stupid like yoko. and if they cant theres context clues ie. both the loli and the girl with adult features are students in a middle school classroom or something.

also it was not explicitly stated in the article (in the gazette) that these things were sold meaning he very well couldve gotten this shit off gelbooru or whatever hentai site archives doujinshi and images drawn by japanese artists. from what im getting through interviews with gelbooru's owners/AMA he is in legal rights to have this material up so then it all depends on who is accessing the content and saving it on their own computers. also distributing these images physically is just a big no no. so if hes printing this shit out then yeah hes asking for it.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#39  October 20, 2014, 05:30:14 am
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check the edit.

this is a lot like australia banning small breasts on porn.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#40  October 20, 2014, 05:35:32 am
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websites like that have always confused me but

this person contends loli is actually legal in the us

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Jerl said:
Loli is illegal in many countries.  From what I remember, it's illegal in most countries in the middle east, as well as Australia and a few countries in Europe.  I don't remember much more specific than that.

Gelbooru is hosted in the US.  Loli isn't illegal in the United States, and the Supreme Court has overturned guilty rulings on cases where people were prosecuted for it citing the first amendment, however it's a slightly grey area.  Nevertheless, I can pretty much guarantee that the FBI knows of the existance of Gelbooru and Danbooru and other such sites, and if it really were a problem we would have been shut down or forced to disallow loli.  As it stands, as long as you don't do something stupid for them to try and add it on as a secondary charge while prosecuting you for, you should be fine.

If you do something stupid and they try to add it on as a secondary charge, however, be prepared for the jury to find you guilty in a heartbeat unless the judge throws the charges out.  In fact, if such a thing were to happen, you should be prepared to take it all the way up to the supreme court.  And, of course, even if the charge is thrown out, it's likely that they will attempt to use it as evidence against your character when prosecuting you for whatever it was that ended up with them searching your computer because of.

What you should take from this is that if you enjoy loli, you should use it as a solid reason not to do anything stupid.  Do not break any laws that might make them search your computer.  Of course, you shouldn't break any laws that would make them search your computer in the first place, but use this as added motivation to keep yourself clean.

so this pretty much states what i am saying except contradicts my earlier contention that loli itself is illegal in general- its case by case where the pornography must be seen as "obscene" as per the PROTECT act and the previous legal codes i cited. basically a huge grey area- but everyone who contends this dont source anything like the original stuff that told me loli is flat out illegal. so i take it with a grain of salt.

hwoever this does not change things for the uk man. if its legal for the stuff to be hosted in the US that doesnt mean its legal in the UK to access and dl it.