Even though RicePigeon is back, I'll still do Touhou characters in his style, since I'm doing them in his old style instead of the one, which RicePigeon goes. That also means that there will be a spell card selection as well. For those, who wonder, I have used the latest Yukari_RP as a base, since she was for 1.0, didn't floated like Mima and also didn't had extra files like Flandre. That way, I already had all the system code ready to go. As for the sprites, I have used the SSF of Marisa_K by Kohaku (thanks). I also replaced most of Yukarin Yakanzuki's voice in Yukari_RP's SND file with the voice of Marisa_K (the best Marisa voice IMO), but also with some voice samples from Touhou Kubotu. She is currently near completition, she only needs these things: -Orreries Universe (has intro, movement, and an almost finished first bullet pattern) -special intros (I already almost finished the one for Mima_RP, after that, I'll do the ones for Reimu_RP and Alice_RP) -other minor things But don't get too excited. Since she was meant to be a template, I cannot release her, until she is 100% done, since if I release her, I wont update her anymore. On the same time, I'm also working on Reimu. Even though RicePigeon makes a Reimu already, mine will be different from his. Not only will she have my own color seperation (which every of my future RP-styled characters will have), she will also have some extra stuff like a new crouching jab I made and also intros and winposes derived from Touhou Kobuto, Touhou Sky Arena and Touhou Hopeless Masquerade. She will also be less charge typed then RicePigeon's Reimu. Also, after I have finished Marisa, I'll do these 3 next:
Tenshi: Since I'm already working on Reimu, I searched for an replacement, so I went with our weather celestial. Her main gimmick will be the ability to manipulate the weather, of course, but I will also make other things like turning most of her Story Mode Spell Cards into regular ones.
Alice: Again, RicePigeon already works on her, but there will be even more difference between my Alice and his Alice then between my Reimu and his Reimu. She will have a almost completely new moveset, based on nenmin's Gensokyo Dolls Alice, where she can use a large variaty of dolls through...uhm...doll sets. I cannot think up of a better name, but they will work similar to the Powet Sets of MegaMan chars in Robot Master Mayhem. That way, Alice can use almost every doll, which nenmin's Alice use. And depending on the Doll Set, one of her LVL3 spellcards will change AS WELL!
Utsohu, Yuka or Sakuya: For this one, I will do a poll, so you can decide. Yuka will be mostly a trap character, Sakuya can manipulate time, and Utsohu will have a source accurate cape and a little deadly extra something. :3
Some additional surprise stuff I will work on, whenever there is no progress with my other future projects, so that can take a while...
UPDATE: Here is, what has been made for Marisa_RP:
Alice: Again, RicePigeon already works on her, but there will be even more difference between my Alice and his Alice then between my Reimu and his Reimu. She will have a almost completely new moveset, based on nenmin's Gensokyo Dolls Alice, where she can use a large variaty of dolls through...uhm...doll sets. I cannot think up of a better name, but they will work similar to the Powet Sets of MegaMan chars in Robot Master Mayhem. That way, Alice can use almost every doll, which nenmin's Alice use. And depending on the Doll Set, one of her LVL3 spellcards will change AS WELL!
I think we're jumping the gun here.
Quote
Utsohu, Yuka or Sakuya: Utsohu will have a source accurate cape and a little extra something. :3
All I can say is good luck with this one. Me, Kohaku, and F7 have tried this with no success. Unless you know something that we don't
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 17, 2013, 05:40:54 pm
Alice: Again, RicePigeon already works on her, but there will be even more difference between my Alice and his Alice then between my Reimu and his Reimu. She will have a almost completely new moveset, based on nenmin's Gensokyo Dolls Alice, where she can use a large variaty of dolls through...uhm...doll sets. I cannot think up of a better name, but they will work similar to the Powet Sets of MegaMan chars in Robot Master Mayhem. That way, Alice can use almost every doll, which nenmin's Alice use. And depending on the Doll Set, one of her LVL3 spellcards will change AS WELL!
I think we're jumping the gun here.
Excuse me, but I don't understand. :S I though you were working on her, since you uploaded a video of what seems to be your version...
Utsohu, Yuka or Sakuya: Utsohu will have a source accurate cape and a little extra something. :3
All I can say is good luck with this one. Me, Kohaku, and F7 have tried this with no success. Unless you know something that we don't
Well, my idea is to seperate the part of the cape, which would have the space background, from the other sprites and attach it to Utsohu, just like how the mask and the claws get attached to Vega. And I would then use said part of this cape as a mask for the space background similar to how the boxes for the win ports cage in win ports. I just hope that it will work that way...
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: Ricepigeon on May 17, 2013, 05:55:49 pm
The best way to think of this would be an additional layer of the stage background where the only visible part of this background layer is the part encompased by Utsuho's cape. Currently the mugen engine is not capable of doing something like this.
The problem with your approach is that you'll need an animation for the cape for EVERY animation where the inside of Utsuho's cape is exposed.
Tack onto that the fact that the cape background has its own delta, in order to emulate the original effect, you would need to multipy the amount of cape animations (and sprites) by every single possible pixel variation of the image. If I recall correctly, the cape background is 1024x1024 pixels, which means you would need 1,048,576 versions of every animation dedicated to the cape alone. Additionally, it would be impossible to do this while Utsuho is in one of the opponent's custom states.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 17, 2013, 06:42:04 pm
The best way to think of this would be an additional layer of the stage background where the only visible part of this background layer is the part encompased by Utsuho's cape. Currently the mugen engine is not capable of doing something like this.
Okay, with that. one of my dreams is destroyed. Stupid Elecbyte.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: Ricepigeon on May 17, 2013, 08:06:56 pm
Out of curiousity, is she going to be implementing some of the system fixes that were introduced in my new updates (ie: command normals, throw escapes, custom cornerpush, ability to cancel standing normals into crouching, updated juggle & damage dampener systems, etc) or is she going to be strictly based on the old system I was using?
Out of curiousity, is she going to be implementing some of the system fixes that were introduced in my new updates (ie: command normals, throw escapes, custom cornerpush, ability to cancel standing normals into crouching, updated juggle & damage dampener systems, etc) or is she going to be strictly based on the old system I was using?
I will implement some, but not all system fixes. For example, I made my own damage dampener for physical attacks (based on the one for projectile attacks), and I probably stick to the default corner push and the old juggle system. However, I do intend to use command normals for some characters (Marisa, for example, has got a FWD+Z command normal, which Touhou players immidiately could recognize) the "standing normals into crouching normals" cancels and maybe throw escapes (though I still need to figure out, how you did it, I just cannot see a change state for throw escapes in your Lie).
Iirc, the old level 3s used a purple PotS-style super portrait
Huh? I thought that the color varies with the character. Flandre and Mima, for example, have a red super background. While the red super background fits Flandre, I actually think that the color for Mima's super background should have been cosmic blue.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: Ricepigeon on May 18, 2013, 04:45:46 am
The color was originally purple but was later changed to red. The PotS style portraits was abandoned in favor of the current super portrait style that was first implemented in Lie.
Regarding the throw escapes, it should be there. Should be in Hong and Reimu as well. Its everything referring to state 890
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 18, 2013, 08:09:27 am
The color was originally purple but was later changed to red. The PotS style portraits was abandoned in favor of the current super portrait style that was first implemented in Lie.
Well, I actually thought that the color varied from the character... ...I could like that a lot more then making them all red or purple, so I guess this is the place, where I take some independence.
Regarding the throw escapes, it should be there. Should be in Hong and Reimu as well. Its everything referring to state 890
Okay, I found state 890 and added it to Marisa. I still got a problem though... ...whenever Hong techs out of Marisa's throw, Marisa uses her Tech out animation. However, if Marisa techs out of Hong's throw, Marisa uses her guard animation instead. :S I also found a new error while playing as Marisa: Her sprites are misaligned. Gotta fix that now. Fixed.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: Ricepigeon on May 19, 2013, 08:24:51 am
...whenever Hong techs out of Marisa's throw, Marisa uses her Tech out animation. However, if Marisa techs out of Hong's throw, Marisa uses her guard animation instead. :S
The state for p2 for throw escapes checks to see if anims 5940 and 5945 exist. If they do, it uses those otherwise it uses the guard animation instead.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 19, 2013, 09:47:24 am
Thanks. I have now fixed my problem: (http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/4108/mugen005fo.png) And about the "standing into crouching" cancels, I'm trying to implement them, but I just can't make them work...
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: Darkflare on May 19, 2013, 10:19:36 am
I also found a new error while playing as Marisa: Her sprites are misaligned. Gotta fix that now. Fixed.
I remember this problem in my earlier experiments. I'm assuming you're using Fighter Factory already, so try using the onionskin feature to check sprite alignment.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 19, 2013, 10:28:38 am
I also found a new error while playing as Marisa: Her sprites are misaligned. Gotta fix that now. Fixed.
I remember this problem in my earlier experiments. I'm assuming you're using Fighter Factory already, so try using the onionskin feature to check sprite alignment.
Thanks for the tip. Gonna use that for my future characters.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 19, 2013, 03:17:19 pm
Okay, I have already ripped all of Reimu's sprites from Korugane's Reimu, which I would like to color seperate. Basically, I can start the color seperation now, but I need your opinion first: *image removed* What do you all think of a seperation like this?
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 20, 2013, 08:30:46 am
Added some additional color seperation: (http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8053/reimucolorseperationtes.png) What do you think of it?
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: Seravy on May 25, 2013, 10:28:14 pm
Looks good. By the way, I think I had to add some animations that Kurogane's Reimu didn't contain into mine, so you might want to check my SFF as well. The upside down attack from 12.3 was definitely not in Kurogane's Reimu for example because it one is a 7.5 version and older than that game. Not sure if that was the only one or not. I think I might have had to fix some colors on some of the sprites as well, maybe the shoes on the Dimension Rift, don't remember.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 25, 2013, 10:49:07 pm
Looks good. By the way, I think I had to add some animations that Kurogane's Reimu didn't contain into mine, so you might want to check my SFF as well. The upside down attack from 12.3 was definitely not in Kurogane's Reimu for example because it one is a 7.5 version and older than that game. Not sure if that was the only one or not. I think I might have had to fix some colors on some of the sprites as well, maybe the shoes on the Dimension Rift, don't remember.
Thanks for the input. If nobody else have something to say, then I guess this will be the final seperation then. Which is good, because now, it is relatively easy to do and doesn't take up too much time (though I somehow need to find good color values for the seperation of the somersault attack and place them, the only part of the seperation that will be tedious).
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 26, 2013, 05:53:46 pm
Updated color seperation for Reimu again: *image removed* Still not finished, though.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 26, 2013, 06:24:46 pm
I took account of a suggestion which SpiderMew at IMT gave me, and seperated the white part of the large bow as well: (http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8053/reimucolorseperationtes.png) I probably wont seperate the sleeves though, since I'm already starting to run out of good color values, which I still need for the needle projectile and the cards (let alone the effect for Reimu's somersault). EDIT1: Managed to find values for the handle of the needles. EDIT2: Same goes for the green of the small cards. EDIT3: Seperated the small cards now.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 26, 2013, 08:55:34 pm
Okay, I have updated the first post with a list of what I have seperated so far.
Title: Re: Breaking the silence: The RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIP: Marisa)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 30, 2013, 09:57:44 pm
Okay, I have updated the first post now. Some more sprites for Reimu's color seperation has been made. Enough to say that I'm working on Marisa and Reimu on the same time. Because of that, I also updated the list of characters I'll do next after I have finished Marisa.
Title: Re: TrinitroMan's RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIPs: Marisa & Reimu)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on May 31, 2013, 10:53:15 pm
Uhm...first post updated, I guess? At least, I could seperate a few more sprites. Also, should I do a video of Marisa_RP and her current state, just so you know that I'm still working on her?
Title: Re: TrinitroMan's RP-styled characters WIP thread (Current WIPs: Marisa & Reimu)
Post by: TrinitroRoy on June 09, 2013, 05:04:37 pm
Sorry to bump, but I just want to say that I will soonly show a video showing new progress with Marisa. Aside from that, here is the real reason for bumping up the thread: While I'm trying to code her last LVL3 Spellcard, I'm now currently needing some good voice actors, who speak japanese. I currently need voice samples for Marisa's special intro against my future WIP Reimu, I hope someone is willing to do that... ...if someone is interested, just tell me, and I'll give you more information. Thanks in advance! Oh, and before I forget, because of the link name not changing, I'm forced to make that a Marisa_RP only WIP thread. If Marisa is finished, I will close this thread and open a new one for the rest of my RP-styled WIPs.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on June 26, 2013, 05:05:10 pm
What happens, if a MUGEN coder is desperately trying to finish a character as fast as possible, but can't because the coder is NOT a spriter and his chance of commissioning a sprite were gone because said coder didn't thought about that earlier, when the commissions were still open? This: *image removed* Yep, it's my lazy attempt at doing a EFZ-styled burnt sprite for Marisa. It isn't even finished just yet, but that should do the job for now. Of course I will update this sprite later. For example, making the clothes look more burnt instead of being just darkened. The skin tone also looks a bit too bright for a burnt sprite. But now I need to have all the animation standards set first. Coding-wise, I almost finished the last super, so those, who want to be part of my team of private beta-testers can except to get a beta soon (though I still can't give a concrete release date right now).
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Sima Shi on June 26, 2013, 05:14:02 pm
no need to rush to complete char bro
just take your time until you feel like the character is ready to be released (even it takes months/years)
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on June 26, 2013, 05:22:33 pm
I would, but RicePigeon releases his characters so fast, I somehow need to catch up. Sometimes, I wonder, how RicePigeon can code in light speed...
Most of it is just recycled code from older stuff. Besides, coding in the moves is the easy part. Making sure they work properly as intended is another, and the main reason for both Alice and Reimu's delay. All of Reimu's stuff was in as early as the first week of May, but she didnt see a release until only 2 weeks ago because of this.
Its also because my keyboard has a flux capacitor installed capable of producing the necessary 1.21 Gigawatts. :smug:
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on June 26, 2013, 05:39:28 pm
LOL at the last part. Everything else makes sense, though. Also, this are the animation standards I have planned so far: -shocking (made by Aionois) ->high priority for characters in this style because of compatibily -burned (made by me, unfinished) ->high priority for characters in this style because of compatibily -Midnight Bliss (not made, will make it later) ->medium priority for characters in this style because of compatibily (and because RicePigeon's Kanako had that already) -??? (a completely new standard, still need JmorphMan's approvement) ->low priority for characters in this style because of compatibily
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on June 26, 2013, 05:51:28 pm
Quote
Besides, coding in the moves is the easy part. Making sure they work properly as intended is another
This is so 100% true. I can complete a new character in 2-3 weeks but I'm still busy fixing problems with those that have been around for years already.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on June 26, 2013, 06:04:42 pm
I was refering moreso to animation timings, hitboxes, frame data, and whatnot. Having people test Alice's AI exposed a few of these flaws as well.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on June 28, 2013, 11:50:50 pm
Hello everyone, I just wanted to let you know, that I will release a private beta to my beta-testers soon. I already updated the burnt sprite and made Midnight Bliss sprites, though they are only halfway finished. I also cleaned up various sprites. The only thing left is adding the remaining spellcard icons and, because the Midnight Bliss wanted new slots, I also updating my other pallettes, but that should be an easy task. With that said, I hope these persons become beta-testers: -Seravy (since he was also my alpha tester) *confirmed* -RicePigeon (since my Marisa is based of his old characters) *confirmed* -C.A.N. (his feedbacks are so detailed, they are the most detailed feedbacks I have ever seen) *confirmed* -Xenomic (he seems to be an expert in optional animation standards, so I would like to know, what he think of Aionois' shock sprites, my burnt sprite and my unfinished Midnight Bliss sprites) *declined* -Kohaku (I'm actually quite curious, whenever I made good use of the resources found in his Marisa_K) *confirmed* -DarkFlare (I like his feedbacks, too) -??? (this one slot is free for those, who are interrested) If any of the first 6 are willing to beta-test her, please let me know, so I can confirm them as official beta testers.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Sinnesloschen on June 29, 2013, 01:31:18 pm
-C.A.N (her feedbacks are so detailed, they are the most detailed feedbacks I have ever seen)
I've got nothing better to do. Sign me up.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
You haven't seen Cybaster's feedback, have you?
Wait, Cybaster does feedbacks, too? Eitherway, thanks that you're willing to beta test her. I will confirm you now. If everyone is confirmed, the beta will be sent. EDIT: Confirmed
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Sinnesloschen on June 29, 2013, 05:21:02 pm
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on June 29, 2013, 08:24:01 pm
Sure, will test.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on June 29, 2013, 08:29:27 pm
Thanks. I have confirmed you now.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 01, 2013, 03:03:45 pm
Ok, good news and bad news. The good news: While I was confirming beta testers, I could also add a new command attack. If you jump and press the Medium Attack Button while holding down the Down Arrow, you will experience the MarisaCopter again. Except that I actualy nerfed this attack: -the upward boost is smaller now -there is some cooldown, so you cannot abuse it anymore (I tested that) The bad news: Xenomic had to decline his spot as a beta tester. Reason:
I'll have to decline as a beta tester. It's just not something that I do unfortunately, even as much of a fighting game buff as I may be. Even moreso when it comes to Hisoutensoku (though I haven't played that in like a year now...well, I guess I DID play a few games recently but still! ^^;;).
And because the forum isn't very active, the seventh spot is also at a stake. On an unrelated note, does someone know, what was Kohaku's username in this forum again? I forgot it... -_-
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 01, 2013, 03:19:45 pm
If you jump and press the Medium Attack Button while holding down the Down Arrow, you will experience the MarisaCopter again. Except that I actualy nerfed this attack: -the upward boost is smaller now -there is some cooldown, so you cannot abuse it anymore (I tested that)
I dont recall if my older characters had this or not, but the air attacks should put the character into a psuedo fall state that disables control until they touch the ground. I think on my older stuff, the only exception was air light attacks and Yuyuko's j.5B (which had just enough recovery to force her to actually lose vertical distance if she used it repeatedly).
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 01, 2013, 03:28:17 pm
If you jump and press the Medium Attack Button while holding down the Down Arrow, you will experience the MarisaCopter again. Except that I actualy nerfed this attack: -the upward boost is smaller now -there is some cooldown, so you cannot abuse it anymore (I tested that)
I dont recall if my older characters had this or not, but the air attacks should put the character into a psuedo fall state that disables control until they touch the ground. I think on my older stuff, the only exception was air light attacks and Yuyuko's j.5B (which had just enough recovery to force her to actually lose vertical distance if she used it repeatedly).
Well, your Yukari hadn't, and I used her as a base. Your Kanako hadn't that, too, and I'm currently updating her with a new voice and a new LVL3 spellcard, which replaces that out-ot-place Snake Goku Satsu.
Also, are you willing to beta-test my Marisa?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 01, 2013, 04:52:38 pm
Of course I am
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 01, 2013, 04:59:36 pm
Thanks, I have confirmed you. Now I only need to confirm Kohaku and DarkFlare.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 03, 2013, 12:47:13 pm
Good news, everyone: Kohaku is now a beta-tester as well. Now I only need to confirm DarkFlare.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 05, 2013, 08:51:45 am
Sorry to bump, but it seems that DarkFlare's spot is at stake as well, since he seems to be busy with other things. So there is a possibility that someone else can take DarkFlare's spot. That's still not set in stone, though.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 05, 2013, 04:51:47 pm
I assume you're waiting for confirmation before sending it to everyone? It might be useful and more productive to send it to those already confirmed to at least get feedback in the meanwhile, sort of to get a head start. Thats just me anyways.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 05, 2013, 05:06:50 pm
I assume you're waiting for confirmation before sending it to everyone? It might be useful and more productive to send it to those already confirmed to at least get feedback in the meanwhile, sort of to get a head start. Thats just me anyways.
I agree, I see no reason for waiting, either.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 05, 2013, 06:06:07 pm
Sounds fair enough. However, before I will send the beta, you have to download this first: http://www.sendspace.com/file/qk4uer This is an edit of RicePigeon's Mima. This edit has a new dizzy animation, animations for Throw escape and Throw Tech and, the most important thing, compatibility with Marisa_RP (yep, Marisa has a special intro against Mima, which Seravy already witnessed). If you have downloaded this edit, just let me know, and I will send you the beta afterwards.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 05, 2013, 06:35:17 pm
Downloaded.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 05, 2013, 06:37:02 pm
Downloaded (though I dont know why) may as well test it on the side
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 05, 2013, 07:01:25 pm
Sent to both of you. Also, for feedback, please use this thread, so beta-testers can share their feedbacks together and comment on the feedbacks of other beta-testers.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 05, 2013, 10:27:04 pm
-In an x->y->z, the y misses most of the time because it has lower range than x. Y should be able to hit if X did. Especially because x->z does not work as a combo, z is too slow for that. -Clsn1 and 2 on standing x looks very oversized. It extends about 20-30 pixels over her hand and even more upward. -Clsn2 on standing y extends way beyond the character itself, and even beyond the clsn1. In other words, not only does this have low range, but you actually make it easier for the opponent to hit you in the process. -There are gaps between clsn2 in weird places in the common animations, like anim 10. -In general, clsn2 tends to overextend a bit over the character, making it too easy to get hit. -Air x has no clsn2 on the recovery frames at all. -Pressing up for a very short amount of time makes her jump extremely small. Not sure if this is intended. -Readme says grazing is applied to the dashes but it isn't. Also grazing gives immunity to projectiles, but your readme says attacks instead. -Clsn1 on air y covers only about 60% of the explosion sprite. I believe the explod could be moved a bit down and backward, and the clsn1 could be extended downward. Air y uses the animation for the forward version of this explod, but uses the diagonal downward effect, this looks weird and feels a bit inconsistent. -Air z could use more active frames. It's very hard to actually hit something with it. It has a very small range so more active frames could make it easier to hit with it. -There are no clsns on the throw animation. Yes, I know a lot of people like it this way but I still consider it weird to avoid a projectile (or a timed super move) because you are throwing someone. -All the projectiles in DFZ move forward but they face random directions. (The angle of the tail effect seems random) -The damage output of DFZ is very inconsistent, I have seen any amount between 46 and 99. All of these feel too weak for an attack that costs power to use. For 500 power, I would expect about 120-140 damage. It's not faster than the X version and it doesn't do more damage either. -The DFY should come out faster. The faster moving projectile is nice but it doesn't really make too much difference on the distance available without zooming at this speed difference. The slow version takes about 58 ticks to reach the other end of the screen and this takes 48, both are kinda slow. At less distance, they are pretty much equal. -The Z version of Misama Sweep does way too much damage. 182 is too much for 500 power. It should be about 120-130. -The Nothitby on Miasma Sweep startup is PERMANENT and never expires. -Witch Leyline Y could use some graze effect. The X version could do a bit more damage. The Z version could have graze and do more damage. -Grand Stardust commands could use a bit more time, 10 ticks makes it a bit hard to perform these. -Master Spark is quite powerful for a level 1. 252 damage with only 16 ticks of startup on a nearly fullscreen beam AND full invincibility is too powerful. 16 ticks is very fast for a beam attack, with invincibility as well, the fair amount of damage would be about 150-180 I believe. I would go with 180-190 because it's a Master Spark so it can't be weak. Even that feels a bit disappointing but with that speed, range, cost, and invincibility, more would be overkill. Not to mention it even does 46 damage on block, that the opponent can't do anything to avoid. Of course, making it slower and keeping the damage is also an option. -Marisa doesn't seem to have a clsn2 on half the animation for Meteonic Shower. She has invincibility against projectiles (even though she is not moving, so it can't be graze), not sure why? In general, this attack serves the same purpose as Master Spark (hits the same area for same cost), but it's vastly inferior. With about the same startup time (it's 12 or more ticks, because random is used), it does less damage and has less invincibility. As a player, I would never use this over Master Spark, so Master Spark needs to be fixed, see above. -Polaris Unique. OMG was that 300 damage on hit from a level 1? With 150 on block. The projectile is huge so it's very hard to avoid, and it's slow enough to give you plenty of chances to hit the opponent before it reaches them. In the unlikely case of it exploding on something other than the poor opponent, it'll split and cover the whole screen, just to make sure it'll do some damage anyway. This needs a lot of balancing, it's definitely overpowered. I would probably take the splitting part out and just make an explosion where the big star breaks down to many small stars that don't do damage. -Clsn1 on Orreries Sun extends way beyond the orbs themselves. -Escape Velocity, 400 damage for 2000 power is too much. Should be 300, considering there is full invincibility AND it's air unblockable. -Escape Velocity hits the opponent even when it's blocked. Not sure why but I guess the first two hits both happening during the superpause itself has something to do with it. When this happens, the opponent takes much less damage, but they get hit anyway. This reduction seems to be able to affect future attacks as well, I have seen Earthlight Ray do 135 only after it. -Speaking of which, this makes the effective startup time of Escape Velocity 0, that's kinda...too fast. -Again, on Earthlight Ray, 410 damage for 2000 power is too high. There is no invincibility on this so it could do more than the other, but over 320-330 sounds excessive. -Final Spark is an instant kill that has full invincibility and covers the entire screen in front of Marisa. Just in case the opponent tried to do something funny -like blocking it- it's unguardable, too. If you use this in the corner, it's guaranteed instant victory. Using it anywhere else is retarded. Now, if it would be like Yukari's train, which gets interrupted by attacks and is really slow, then, maybe, perhaps...but with full invincibility? -F+b should be slower. It hits for a huge distance, and has good priority, so it shouldn't have a startup of 4 ticks. Around 10-15 sounds more reasonable.
I haven't tested the AI yet, I'll prefer to do that after her moveset is more balanced.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 06, 2013, 12:17:37 am
-In an x->y->z, the y misses most of the time because it has lower range than x. Y should be able to hit if X did. Especially because x->z does not work as a combo, z is too slow for that. -Clsn1 and 2 on standing x looks very oversized. It extends about 20-30 pixels over her hand and even more upward. -Clsn2 on standing y extends way beyond the character itself, and even beyond the clsn1. In other words, not only does this have low range, but you actually make it easier for the opponent to hit you in the process. -There are gaps between clsn2 in weird places in the common animations, like anim 10. -In general, clsn2 tends to overextend a bit over the character, making it too easy to get hit. -Air x has no clsn2 on the recovery frames at all.
-Clsn1 on air y covers only about 60% of the explosion sprite. I believe the explod could be moved a bit down and backward, and the clsn1 could be extended downward. Air y uses the animation for the forward version of this explod, but uses the diagonal downward effect, this looks weird and feels a bit inconsistent.
Noted, trying to fix that, though that would be very hard, since the explosion is an explod... >_< Also, Air Medium actually uses the animation for the diagonal version of the explod. The animation for the forward version has been already used in Star Burst.
-Air z could use more active frames. It's very hard to actually hit something with it. It has a very small range so more active frames could make it easier to hit with it.
Excuse me, but what are active frames. I'm a but confused there... :S
-F+b should be slower. It hits for a huge distance, and has good priority, so it shouldn't have a startup of 4 ticks. Around 10-15 sounds more reasonable.
-There are no clsns on the throw animation. Yes, I know a lot of people like it this way but I still consider it weird to avoid a projectile (or a timed super move) because you are throwing someone.
Intentional. RicePigeon did that with all of his characters in this style.
-The damage output of DFZ is very inconsistent, I have seen any amount between 46 and 99. All of these feel too weak for an attack that costs power to use. For 500 power, I would expect about 120-140 damage. It's not faster than the X version and it doesn't do more damage either.
Increased the damage output. Still couldn't fix the damage inconsistency though...
-The DFY should come out faster. The faster moving projectile is nice but it doesn't really make too much difference on the distance available without zooming at this speed difference. The slow version takes about 58 ticks to reach the other end of the screen and this takes 48, both are kinda slow. At less distance, they are pretty much equal.
Fixed. I made the weak Starburst come out slower, since I couldn't make the medium Starburst come out even faster then it is.
-The Z version of Misama Sweep does way too much damage. 182 is too much for 500 power. It should be about 120-130. -The Nothitby on Miasma Sweep startup is PERMANENT and never expires.
Uhm, I think, I fixed this, but I'm not sure. However, the damage output has been reduced now.
-Master Spark is quite powerful for a level 1. 252 damage with only 16 ticks of startup on a nearly fullscreen beam AND full invincibility is too powerful. 16 ticks is very fast for a beam attack, with invincibility as well, the fair amount of damage would be about 150-180 I believe. I would go with 180-190 because it's a Master Spark so it can't be weak. Even that feels a bit disappointing but with that speed, range, cost, and invincibility, more would be overkill. Not to mention it even does 46 damage on block, that the opponent can't do anything to avoid. Of course, making it slower and keeping the damage is also an option. -Marisa doesn't seem to have a clsn2 on half the animation for Meteonic Shower. She has invincibility against projectiles (even though she is not moving, so it can't be graze), not sure why? In general, this attack serves the same purpose as Master Spark (hits the same area for same cost), but it's vastly inferior. With about the same startup time (it's 12 or more ticks, because random is used), it does less damage and has less invincibility. As a player, I would never use this over Master Spark, so Master Spark needs to be fixed, see above.
Fixed, Master Spark has a higher amount of startup. And Meteoric Shower has the needed colision.
-Polaris Unique. OMG was that 300 damage on hit from a level 1? With 150 on block. The projectile is huge so it's very hard to avoid, and it's slow enough to give you plenty of chances to hit the opponent before it reaches them. In the unlikely case of it exploding on something other than the poor opponent, it'll split and cover the whole screen, just to make sure it'll do some damage anyway. This needs a lot of balancing, it's definitely overpowered. I would probably take the splitting part out and just make an explosion where the big star breaks down to many small stars that don't do damage.
-Escape Velocity, 400 damage for 2000 power is too much. Should be 300, considering there is full invincibility AND it's air unblockable. -Speaking of which, this makes the effective startup time of Escape Velocity 0, that's kinda...too fast.
Removed the invisibility in the first two parts as well as made it air blockable. However, the last part, which only triggers, when the second part suceed, still keeps full invisibility and is unguardable period.
-Escape Velocity hits the opponent even when it's blocked. Not sure why but I guess the first two hits both happening during the superpause itself has something to do with it. When this happens, the opponent takes much less damage, but they get hit anyway. This reduction seems to be able to affect future attacks as well, I have seen Earthlight Ray do 135 only after it.
-Again, on Earthlight Ray, 410 damage for 2000 power is too high. There is no invincibility on this so it could do more than the other, but over 320-330 sounds excessive.
-Final Spark is an instant kill that has full invincibility and covers the entire screen in front of Marisa. Just in case the opponent tried to do something funny -like blocking it- it's unguardable, too. If you use this in the corner, it's guaranteed instant victory. Using it anywhere else is retarded. Now, if it would be like Yukari's train, which gets interrupted by attacks and is really slow, then, maybe, perhaps...but with full invincibility?
I somehow knew you would also go on Final Spark... ...Final Spark was meant to be insta-kill, since it's the Final Spark, a real finishing laser. However, during start-up, you can interupt Marisa's attack. Already increased start-up, though.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 06, 2013, 08:40:07 am
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Excuse me, but what are active frames. I'm a but confused there... :S
The time for where there is a clsn1. When the attack can hit.
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However, during start-up, you can interupt Marisa's attack.
Eartlight Ray is +25 on block, and I've seen it do in the neighborhood of 160 blocked damage, as opposed to 296 on hit (0ver half)
Meteoric Debris can be anywhere from +17 to +22 on block
Uhm...I'm not an expert in what the recommended numbers are, and I don't know, how to implement that in the HitDef. I would be glad, if you could help me there a bit, since I'm still learning the MUGEN code... However, I have reduced the blocked damage now.
Any reason why Marisa is completely invincible during Orreries Universe?
I made it like that, so Marisa wont get interupted. And I don't know, how to add super armor for just one move, while not screwing up the other moves...
Even with 185 frames of startup, Final Spark being an unblockable OHKO move is too much.
Well, I could increase the startup even more, but I have to keep this attack an unblockable OHKO move... I always saw Final Spark as an finishing move, hence the name Final Spark, so making it an unblockable OHKO move made sense to me... :-\
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 06, 2013, 08:46:07 pm
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And I don't know, how to add super armor for just one move, while not screwing up the other moves...
Like this. (http://elecbyte.com/wiki/index.php/Superarmor)
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I though the effect of nohitby will go away, if Marisa enters a different state.
No, it goes away after the time expires.
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How do I fix that?
Set the time parameter properly. -1 is for infinite. You'll most likely need time=1.
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Sorry, but what kind of priority do you mean?
Priority means how much the clsn1 extends over the clsn2. Clsn1 reaching further than clsn2 = priority. Clsn1 of same size as clsn2 = no priority. Clsn2 reaching further than clsn1 = negative priority. In other words, this kind of priority is the amount of distance where you'll score a hit but not take one against an opponent using an attack with identically placed clsn1 and clsn2. If the entire clsn1 is not covered by clsn2, people tend to call it infinite priority. This term is misleading because an even wider clsn1 without clsn2 will win against it so it's actually a finite amount of advantage even if there is no clsn2.
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Well, I could increase the startup even more, but I have to keep this attack an unblockable OHKO move...
Why? It's not a final boss or god tier character to need one of those. Actually, not even final bosses need one. Out of the 40+ characters I have made, the only one OHKO that cannot be avoided simply by either guarding, jumping or running away was Seravy's True Comet and that costs 9000 and it is a character meant to be cheap. I never heard Marisa has the ability to instantly kill others officially, if it was Flandre or Yuyuko that I would understand but even then, the unblockable part is not necessary. Yukari's train does like 5-600 so if you aim for a slow, interruptable unblockable, that's what you should look at. On my Marisa, "Final" just means it's so expensive you won't be casting a powerful spell any time soon after using one, and it will decide the outcome of the round. If you wasted that much power to not hit then you are very likely to lose, and if you managed to hit, then winning is likely. But even for the 5000 cost, it only does ~600 damage and it's not unblockable.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 06, 2013, 09:12:28 pm
Priority means how much the clsn1 extends over the clsn2. Clsn1 reaching further than clsn2 = priority. Clsn1 of same size as clsn2 = no priority. Clsn2 reaching further than clsn1 = negative priority. In other words, this kind of priority is the amount of distance where you'll score a hit but not take one against an opponent using an attack with identically placed clsn1 and clsn2. If the entire clsn1 is not covered by clsn2, people tend to call it infinite priority. This term is misleading because an even wider clsn1 without clsn2 will win against it so it's actually a finite amount of advantage even if there is no clsn2.
Oh that one. RicePigeon made it sound like a problem, so I thought he meant a different kind of priority...
Well, I could increase the startup even more, but I have to keep this attack an unblockable OHKO move...
*stuff about Final Spark as OHKO being unfitting for Marisa and unfair* On my Marisa, "Final" just means it's so expensive you won't be casting a powerful spell any time soon after using one, and it will decide the outcome of the round. If you wasted that much power to not hit then you are very likely to lose, and if you managed to hit, then winning is likely.
Ugh, I feel so stupid right now... That would make sense, too. Decided to reduce the damage output while keeping the unblockable part.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Darkflare on July 06, 2013, 09:36:20 pm
-There are no clsns on the throw animation. Yes, I know a lot of people like it this way but I still consider it weird to avoid a projectile (or a timed super move) because you are throwing someone.
Ugh, the read-me file...I once planned to add grazing, but that gave me a headache. It seems that I forgot to remove that... :omg:
Why were you even doing this in the first place? Rice's characters never had grazing.
That was originally another independence I have planned, since Seravy's edits of Rice's characters had grazing, too. Still had ended up not doing that. Oh wait, I forgot that I still have Reimu sprites to seperate.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 06, 2013, 11:34:04 pm
Ugh, the read-me file...I once planned to add grazing, but that gave me a headache. It seems that I forgot to remove that... :omg:
Why were you even doing this in the first place? Rice's characters never had grazing.
That was originally another independence I have planned, since Seravy's edits of Rice's characters had grazing, too. Still had ended up not doing that.
You can do the same thing I did and make it optional, but defaulting to no graze. In my versions, there are 3 possible options : No graze, Graze non-hyper projectiles, or Graze any projectile including hypers, defaulting to graze non-hypers. You only need to copy-paste the appropriate pieces of code from one of my edits.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 07, 2013, 07:00:08 am
Just tested the update quickly, found this was still there.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 07, 2013, 09:42:47 am
Just tested the update quickly, found this was still there.
:pwn: How do you do that? EDIT: Okay, now I could pull that off as well... >_< I have now idea why that happens, though...
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 07, 2013, 10:34:17 am
Physics=A on a helper can result in clones. Physics=A automatically changes players to the landing state (52) when reaching the ground, and you don't want that on a helper. For the going through the floor part, most likely it's the opposite, having no physics on Marisa when she should be having A.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 07, 2013, 12:13:49 pm
Physics=A on a helper can result in clones. Physics=A automatically changes players to the landing state (52) when reaching the ground, and you don't want that on a helper. For the going through the floor part, most likely it's the opposite, having no physics on Marisa when she should be having A.
Okay, removed physics=A from the helper. About Marisa herself:
Code:
;Jump Medium Attack [Statedef 610] type = A movetype= A physics = A;N ctrl = 0 anim = 610 ;velset = 0,0 sprpriority = 2
[State 610, STS] type = statetypeset trigger1 = animelem = 2 physics = N
[State 210, VOICE] type = playsnd trigger1 = animelem = 4 value = 210,0 channel = 0
[State 210, 1] type = PlaySnd trigger1 = animelem = 6 value = 1,10;210,1
[State 210, 1] type = PlaySnd trigger1 = animelem = 4 value = 0,1
[State 610, Helper] type = Helper trigger1 = AnimElem = 6 helpertype = normal name = "Burst" ID = 611 stateno = 611 pos = 20,-25 postype = p1 facing = 1
[State 610, STS] type = statetypeset trigger1 = animelem = 9 physics = A
[State 610, CS] type = changestate trigger1 = animtime = 0 value = 50 ctrl = 1
:-\ Is it, because of the physics = N from animelem=2 until animelem=9? Also, I looked up your graze code even further. I really seems like it's just nothitby which triggers whenever the variable is 1 or 2, plus some additional FX. I have started to implement that now.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 07, 2013, 12:28:12 pm
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Is it, because of the physics = N from animelem=2 until animelem=9?
Yes
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I really seems like it's just nothitby which triggers whenever the variable is 1 or 2, plus some additional FX.
Pretty much yes. You need to add the nothitby to the dash states, these to state -3 :
Code:
[State 0, VarSet] type = VarSet trigger1 = 1 ;*********************************************************************************************** var(55)=1 ; 0 - Graze OFF, 1 - Graze for normal and special proj., 2- Graze for all proj. ;***********************************************************************************************
add a triggerall=var(15)=0 condition to the dash commands in the cmd file to make sure it's not possible to graze while it's on cooldown and then copy state 162. Then you add anim 162 and 163 (both empty animations, one has a clsn1 and clsn2 other only has clsn1. They are used to detect the projectiles and trigger the graze effect), the necessary sound and and animation for the effect itself, and that's all. Assuming you do want the 10 ticks of cooldown after grazing, otherwise you don't need the var(15) stuff, but it's kinda unfair without it.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 07, 2013, 12:53:39 pm
Thanks. Now I have almost fully implemented it. I just need to do the explod animation now. Also, is it normal that a Combo Counter shows up on Marisa's side whenever she grazes? I don't think so...
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 07, 2013, 01:35:45 pm
Thanks. Now I have almost fully implemented it. I just need to do the explod animation now. Also, is it normal that a Combo Counter shows up on Marisa's side whenever she grazes? I don't think so...
Never really paid attention to that but yes, it happens for me too. I guess reversals increase the counter...docs say Reversaldef doesn't take a numhits parameter so you will need to use hitadd with value-1 to get rid of it I guess.
Edit : numhits=0 actually works. Docs are incomplete... Time to copy that line over into all the characters, eww...
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 07, 2013, 01:49:37 pm
Thanks. Now I have almost fully implemented it. I just need to do the explod animation now. Also, is it normal that a Combo Counter shows up on Marisa's side whenever she grazes? I don't think so...
Never really paid attention to that but yes, it happens for me too. I guess reversals increase the counter...docs say Reversaldef doesn't take a numhits parameter so you will need to use hitadd with value-1 to get rid of it I guess.
Edit : numhits=0 actually works. Docs are incomplete... Time to copy that line over into all the characters, eww...
Odd, FF3 sees numhits=0 as invalid, and I have set mugenversion to 1.0...
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 07, 2013, 04:03:01 pm
Maybe your FF3 is older? It shows up as valid in mine.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 07, 2013, 04:08:46 pm
Maybe your FF3 is older? It shows up as valid in mine.
:S Now I'm lost. I have 3.0.840.2012...does there exist a newer version? And more importantly: Will the numhits still work regardless of FF3 seeing this feature as invalid?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Zzyzzyxx on July 07, 2013, 04:32:05 pm
Your FF3 is outdated. The version found in http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/fighter-factory-3-rc6-reup-mirror-137126.0.html is 3.0.1400.2012 and it recognizes the numhits line in Reversaldefs correctly.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 07, 2013, 04:46:42 pm
Your FF3 is outdated. The version found in http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/fighter-factory-3-rc6-reup-mirror-137126.0.html is 3.0.1400.2012 and it recognizes the numhits line in Reversaldefs correctly.
Does this also exist as a update patch? If not, does MUGEN recognize numhits in reversaldefs, even if my FF3 doesn't?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Zzyzzyxx on July 07, 2013, 05:00:10 pm
If not, does MUGEN recognize numhits in reversaldefs, even if my FF3 doesn't?
It does.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 07, 2013, 08:40:45 pm
Thanks. Grazing has been implemented succesfully. Here is a new version of my Mima edit: http://www.sendspace.com/file/bdk102 A new version of Marisa will be sent tommorow. In other news, I'm still waiting for a response from Jesuszilla. I'm trying to find out, whenever he can translate english lines into japanese.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 09, 2013, 10:12:33 pm
For those, who wonder, what happened with my WIP: I'm still working on Marisa, but now, I'm waiting for feedback and Jesuszilla's answer. While I'm waiting, I also decided to continue my color seperation of Reimu again. And the poll may gets nullified as well and gets replaced with a character, which more people would look forward into...
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 10, 2013, 05:20:00 am
Noticed a couple of things while recording this
Shes completely invulnerable during the active portion of Master Spark Forgot it was like this in source, but still
Sometimes when the round ends, the AI will keep attacking, putting her into a standing state in midair if she happens to use Miasma Sweep
Spellcard text is misaligned on P2's side
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 10, 2013, 10:55:21 am
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While I'm waiting, I also decided to continue my color seperation of Reimu again.
I'm actually considering to add those color separated sprites to my Reimu now after you complete them. I think you are using the same sprite and group numbers as my Reimu (Kurogane's SFF, I only added new sprites for the 12.3 moves), that would make it a lot easier and faster to do.
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Shes completely invulnerable during the active portion of Master Spark Forgot it was like this in source, but still
Same is true for my Marisa but it's a level 3 there. I'm not sure making it a level 1 was a good thing, considering it's supposed to be a powerful attack.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Nanashi_1337 on July 10, 2013, 01:02:55 pm
If it was Final Spark, then I would agree, but even Master Spark wasn't really a high cost spellcard in the game. Level 3 really doesn't fit with Master Spark.
Btw, I don't see a problem with making her invulnerable while throwing the big laser, you're supposed to punish her in the cooldown after the laser if you managed to block or dodge it succesfully. Interrupting the laser seems kind of unnatural to me while it's going on, though looking at the video you should have been able to stop the laser from coming out in the startup, I guess.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 10, 2013, 01:35:22 pm
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If it was Final Spark, then I would agree, but even Master Spark wasn't really a high cost spellcard in the game. Level 3 really doesn't fit with Master Spark.
I think the 3 card cost in the original would probably be best represented as a level 2 in Mugen. I went with level 3 because I wanted it to be known for the damage output. A level 2 doesn't do all that much damage.
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Btw, I don't see a problem with making her invulnerable while throwing the big laser, you're supposed to punish her in the cooldown after the laser if you managed to block or dodge it succesfully. Interrupting the laser seems kind of unnatural to me while it's going on, though looking at the video you should have been able to stop the laser from coming out in the startup, I guess.
I think it has full time invincibility, which is definitely a bit too much for level 1. I agree she should be vulnerable at least on cooldown. Which made me realize I have to fix that on my Marisa, too.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 10, 2013, 05:11:06 pm
Just for reference while we're on the topic of Master Spark:
So yeah, IaMP's gave her full invincibility, but with -33 on block. SWR & Soku nerfed it so shes vulnerable for 8 frames before firing.
Looking at this Marisa, her Master Spark feels too fast, even with startup on her moves being much faster.
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If it was Final Spark, then I would agree, but even Master Spark wasn't really a high cost spellcard in the game. Level 3 really doesn't fit with Master Spark.
I'd only justify Vanilla Master Spark being a Level 3 if Yuuka was the one using it.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 10, 2013, 07:22:06 pm
The current version of my Master Spark is 22 startup, which counts pretty good for a beam attack but not exceptional. The initial beta had a lot more, like 46 or something, and it almost always ended up being blocked with that much. This was one of the warning signs that made me check the startup times on all characters and attacks and revise them. It has full invincibility on startup (another reason for making it a level 3, I wanted to keep the invincibility as well as the high damage), and Final Spark is level 5 on my Marisa, which is very exceptional, most ultimate attacks on my Touhous is level 4. I guess I could have made them 2 and 4 but they wouldn't be nearly as impressive that way and I didn't have enough level 3s...the existing level 2s wouldn't have worked as level 3, either. In case of Yuuka, her master spark can be her level 4 ultimate, if I ever make a Yuuka.
Back on topic, Marisa_RP's Master Spark is 16 ticks on startup, too fast indeed. As this is a level 1 and does very good damage for one (217 currently), it should be at least 25 ticks, or maybe even 30. Don't go over 30-32 however, as it would become excessively slow. I see no attackdist controller in the code, so the AI will not recognize it coming until the very last tick, because the guard.dist is in the hitdef itself. It makes it an almost guaranteeded hit against AI from a distance over 160. The nothitby starts on animelem 3, but the first 3 elements all happen during the superpause so startup is invincible. As it's level 1 and does a lot of damage, I think the 8 ticks of vulnerability could be added here. While there is no nothitby for the cooldown animation, there are no clsn2s on it so it's also invincible. Put clsn2 on anim 2002.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 10, 2013, 08:51:57 pm
Okay, I took that into account and updated Master Spark. About the grazing and the KO effect, it can be disabled to be even more accurate to RicePigeon's characters (in the final release, it also will be disabled from the start, now it is enabled from the start mainly for testing purposes) I also fixed the alignment of the spellcard names on P2's side. Sadly, I couldn't fix the AI problem, since I have no idea, what it causes... Also, you can feel free to use it, but only after I have release Reimu_RP. I will pretty much release the color seperated sprites of Reimu together with Reimu herself. I will also do the same thing with every other character that gets color seperated.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 10, 2013, 08:56:55 pm
[State -1, AI Turn On] type = varset trigger1 = AILevel > 0 var(58) = AILevel
[State -1, AI Turn Off] type = varset trigger1 = AILevel <= 0 var(58) = 0
The AI variable is on even when the round is over or haven't started. Should be
Code:
[State -1, AI Turn On] type = varset trigger1 = AILevel > 0 trigger1 = Roundstate=2 var(58) = AILevel
[State -1, AI Turn Off] type = varset trigger1 = AILevel <= 0 trigger2 = Roundstate!=2 var(58) = 0
Thanks, I'll add that now. Also, I will send you a new beta to you, if I have Marisa's special intro against Reimu ready.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 13, 2013, 12:24:53 am
Ok so.... Testing this thing brought me up these things: Keep in mind, I have NO IDEA how the cards even work, so I'm just gonna concentrate on the main focus, the attacks:
-5X is supposed to have 7 frames of startup, 2 of duration, and then 8 to end. And why does it have so much negative F.Adv? (-7 is excessive for an attack that's supposed to be safe) -5Y is supposed to have 9 Startup, hitbox lasts for 5 hits, and then add as much so it fits 26, while you don't have to be exactly precise with these numbers, it seems like Marisa is in crack when she does these attacks. They come out pretty fast and she feels too different. Rice tries to conserve the feeling of the original game as he does these characters. Try to use THIS (http://hisouten.koumakan.jp/wiki/Kirisame_Marisa/Normal_Moves) as a reference for these numbers and hitboxing as well. I don't know wtf this Wrongblock thingy is, but you'll most likely just need Hit and block and try to follow these numbers, only change them if the hittimes are not able to connect between each other. And try to compare them to the rest of your moves. -5[Z] (charged Z) Has an odd trayectory. Try screwing around with the air-vels. -6Y could use a faster falling X-vel don't you think? -Throw is odd. -2Z, sweep attacks are not supposed to be safe. -It's kinda hard to do air to ground combos with her j.5A. Her supposed staple. -Yet it's so easy with her other air moves. -I think she should only be able to do j.5A once in air. -Air attacks should have facep2=1 -Please try finding more voice clips, OOORRRYAAAAA gets tiresome REAL quick. -Awkward hitvels on Miasma Sweep, make it just one hit as well, it's far better and takes less time. And ONLY invincible on the start-up please. -Is she supposed to maintain her air momentum when I do QCF+Button in air? -Witch Leyline shouldn't be invincible for med and EX during her dash. Only at the beginning. And have awkward vels. -Why is the collision for D,D,Button on the outsides rather at the center where it explodes? -Masterspark needs hitsounds. :T -Why does Master-spark not push the opponent back on block? Check out a few good characters with beams, you'll see the opponent gets pushed back. -Debug thingies on Orreries Sun. -BGPalFX for Escape Velocity should last for the final part. -Why do sometimes the beams for Orreries Universe not hit at all?? Not only that but this whole super looks.. awkward.
Also, I don't really feel comfortable with you taking Rice's readme format, but that's just me. Posted: July 13, 2013, 12:25:46 am ALSO NO QUOTES AGAINST KOAKUMA I AM DISSAPOINT >: ( *shotdown*
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Zzyzzyxx on July 13, 2013, 01:21:16 am
The start of every attack should make the character automatically face the direction in which the opponent is, which can be accomplished by simply adding the "facep2 = 1" parameter in each corresponding Statedef. Notice that I said the start of each attack, that means that only the first State of an attack or chain of attacks (example: Fei Long's Rekka Ken) should have that line.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Zzyzzyxx on July 13, 2013, 01:29:20 am
Check any of PotS' chars and watch if the states 600 to 650 have facep2 = 1, then. He means standing and crouching attacks, even though that post doesn't make it explicit.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 13, 2013, 01:34:22 am
Check any of PotS' chars and watch if the states 600 to 650 have facep2 = 1, then. He means standing and crouching attacks, even though that post doesn't make it explicit.
Looks like from an air dash for me. That makes sense, as it's easy to accidentally go past the opponent by a few pixels while above them.
Shoulda had double-checked that post. But yeah, that's what I meant; I still would reccomend doing facep2=1 for the air attacks. I see no reason for not having it, It'd help for jump-ins, and trust me, one missed air jump in because she couldn't turn and Marisa's badly hurt by an opponent's combo.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Sinnesloschen on July 13, 2013, 09:30:28 am
Or instead a couple of her air normals could have hitboxes that accommodate crossing up?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 13, 2013, 09:41:31 am
-5X is supposed to have 7 frames of startup, 2 of duration, and then 8 to end. And why does it have so much negative F.Adv? (-7 is excessive for an attack that's supposed to be safe)
Okay, I'm confused now. How can an attack have 7 frames of startup, if the attack only has 6 frames...or did you actually meant ticks? Also, I just google'd how to do frame advantage and found a method, but using calculating it showed this: Active Frames: 2 ticks Recovery Frames: 10 ticks Hit Stun (since I couldn't find parameters for blocking): 4 2+10-4=8? When I updated it, I got this: A.F.: 2 R.F.: 6 H.S.: 9 2+6-9=-1? Is this even correct? (yeah, I still have much to learn...)
-5Y is supposed to have 9 Startup, hitbox lasts for 5 hits, and then add as much so it fits 26, while you don't have to be exactly precise with these numbers, it seems like Marisa is in crack when she does these attacks. They come out pretty fast and she feels too different. Rice tries to conserve the feeling of the original game as he does these characters. Try to use THIS (http://hisouten.koumakan.jp/wiki/Kirisame_Marisa/Normal_Moves) as a reference for these numbers and hitboxing as well. I don't know wtf this Wrongblock thingy is, but you'll most likely just need Hit and block and try to follow these numbers, only change them if the hittimes are not able to connect between each other. And try to compare them to the rest of your moves.
Okay, I get the feeling that you really mean ticks now. Changed the ticks so they are at least near the frame data (by the way: thanks).
Okay, I have changed the ticks so they have similarities with the actual frame data (though a whooping 23 ticks of recovery is ridiculous). Now it is like this: A.F.:2 R.F.:18 Guard Stun: 14 2+18-14=6
-Please try finding more voice clips, OOORRRYAAAAA gets tiresome REAL quick.
Well, I tried to search for some voice rips from Touhou Sky Arena, but there isn't any. And beside, her Medium Normal voice clip isn't used that often. Her Strong Normal voice clip has been used more often.
-It's kinda hard to do air to ground combos with her j.5A. Her supposed staple. -Yet it's so easy with her other air moves.
Uhm, it is hard to combo from air to ground with all the air normals for me. Eitherway, increased hit stun and added guard stun as well as updated the animation: A.F: 2 R.F: 18 (+2 frames of 2 ticks each, which were meant to loop) H.S: 24 G.S: 26 2+18-24=-4 2+18-26=-6
-I think she should only be able to do j.5A once in air.
Well, like I mentioned before, there are 2 frames with 2 ticks each, which were meant to loop (that's also the case for her other aerial normals), but for some reasons, it doesn't...
And so does Final Spark and the lasers of Orreries Universe. I still need to decided, when I should give the lasers the same hitsound which is used in other laser attacks Rice's chars had and Marisa's Magic Missile, or a different hitsound.
Rice's other characters doesn't, so I wo...whoa wait. *looks up the other posts which suddenly appeared while I wrote this post* Hmm, I may consider making Marisa turn to the opponent after air dashes when using one of her aerial normals. Especially because there's nothing against that and because implementation is easy as well.
-Make it just one hit as well, it's far better and takes less time.
Hmm...it actually looks good for me... Also, nobody complained about that before. And at last, I couldn't find any other second differentation, which didn't had anything to do with the degree of Miasma Sweep.
The weak version does have invisibilty on the start-up only. The strong version, on the other hand, was meant to have full invisibility, since it also costs power.
Fixed the vels and another bug with the weak version of Witch Leyline. Also, since the weak version of Witch Leyline travels a shorter distance then the medium version, I made gave medium's invisibility to weak instead.
-Why do sometimes the beams for Orreries Universe not hit at all?? Not only that but this whole super looks.. awkward.
Finally, someone gives me feedback about Orreries Universe, the hardest to code spellcard. Thank you very much. First off, I cannot believe that the beams still do that. I checked that like 100 times, each time in different stages of different sizes and with different opponents. And the beams always have hit the target. However, I also noticed that the beams also hit the opponent, if the opponent is on the very center and doesn't touch the beams, but sadly, I cannot fix that... Also, what exactly is awkward looking in this super?
ALSO NO QUOTES AGAINST KOAKUMA I AM DISSAPOINT >: ( *shotdown*
LOL, yeah. I really cannot find anything, which could somehow justify a quote for Marisa against Koa...but Koa could get a quote against Marisa, if I should make Koa (and knowing me, I will very probably do Koa, but only as soon as I have learned, how to do 2-in-1 characters *hinthint*). And see it from the bright side: Marisa also doesn't have a quote against my waifu.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 13, 2013, 08:11:51 pm
Excuse me, but I don't quite understand: So you want that Marisa's X-vel reaches 0 faster, right?
-6Y's impact on the opponent isn't quite as much to what you'd expect from her shoving her broom in, try changing the horizontal component on the hit velocities.
Well, like I mentioned before, there are 2 frames with 2 ticks each, which were meant to loop (that's also the case for her other aerial normals), but for some reasons, it doesn't...
Oops. I meant j.5X, but what I mean is the following: She should not be able to gain control back after the attack has either whiffed or made contact if you ask me, the ctrlset should be taken off state 600, but that's just me.
PLAYER PLANET (82) IN STATE 3102: NO PARENT FOR PARENTVARADD
I really have no idea, what it causes...
You probably spawned a helper from another helper and destroyed the parent, in the process giving you a debug error. Though the move seems to be working.
Uhm...Master Spark does push the opponent back on block. I've just checked that.
At the end of the beam yes, but not during the beam. After the beam is done it should also have a lot of negative F. Adv since the combination of the pushing back, the long range, and the "safeness" of the move should be paid back.
Hmm...it actually looks good for me... Also, nobody complained about that before. And at last, I couldn't find any other second differentation, which didn't had anything to do with the degree of Miasma Sweep. The weak version does have invisibilty on the start-up only. The strong version, on the other hand, was meant to have full invisibility, since it also costs power.
Well, the thing is Miasma Sweep when hitting slows down the flow of the game. Besides, one hit seems a better option, except for the EX version. Anti-airs also usually have invincibility only on the start-up. The best I could say is that EX versions should do more damage and hits. EX Ver. should be around 3-5 hits.
Wait, what? That's odd. Seravy suggested me the invisibility during the dash.
I see what you're trying to kinda replicate (Kohaku's bottle toss thingy from her broom), but the moves are kinda different, Marisa's dash sports an easy hit from the front, Kohaku's bottle toss was kinda slow and took time to hit the opponent, trading in the invincibility.
Finally, someone gives me feedback about Orreries Universe, the hardest to code spellcard. Thank you very much. First off, I cannot believe that the beams still do that. I checked that like 100 times, each time in different stages of different sizes and with different opponents. And the beams always have hit the target. However, I also noticed that the beams also hit the opponent, if the opponent is on the very center and doesn't touch the beams, but sadly, I cannot fix that... Also, what exactly is awkward looking in this super?
Well if you ask me, Marisa kinda... wobbles around the screen like... herpity derp, it doesn't look smooth, but that's cosmetic, the issue at hand is the beams not hitting. Did you check whether the hitboxes were okay? Because some of the beams don't seem to have the hitbox.
Another thing is that sometimes the projectiles push forward, while I've seen this problem a ton of times in many projectiles, it still should be addressed, maybe a facep2 in some projs. should do the trick, alternatingly making the opponent face the thing on hit.
LOL, yeah. I really cannot find anything, which could somehow justify a quote for Marisa against Koa...but Koa could get a quote against Marisa, if I should make Koa (and knowing me, I will very probably do Koa, but only as soon as I have learned, how to do 2-in-1 characters *hinthint*). And see it from the bright side: Marisa also doesn't have a quote against my waifu.
lol, well I was just joking here. But Koa isn't really hard to replicate, if you base her in her MUGEN incarnation and get inspired from her spellcards there. Though a melee Koa has already been made by da master :smug: *shot*
Hope I was of some help in some sort.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 13, 2013, 09:20:29 pm
Excuse me, but I don't quite understand: So you want that Marisa's X-vel reaches 0 faster, right?
-6Y's impact on the opponent isn't quite as much to what you'd expect from her shoving her broom in, try changing the horizontal component on the hit velocities.
Well, like I mentioned before, there are 2 frames with 2 ticks each, which were meant to loop (that's also the case for her other aerial normals), but for some reasons, it doesn't...
Oops. I meant j.5X, but what I mean is the following: She should not be able to gain control back after the attack has either whiffed or made contact if you ask me, the ctrlset should be taken off state 600, but that's just me.
Okay, just tried out your advice. The results: :bison: Will definitely keep it like you suggested.
PLAYER PLANET (82) IN STATE 3102: NO PARENT FOR PARENTVARADD
I really have no idea, what it causes...
You probably spawned a helper from another helper and destroyed the parent, in the process giving you a debug error. Though the move seems to be working.
Uhm...Master Spark does push the opponent back on block. I've just checked that.
At the end of the beam yes, but not during the beam. After the beam is done it should also have a lot of negative F. Adv since the combination of the pushing back, the long range, and the "safeness" of the move should be paid back.
Okay, now I'm confused, because Nanashi said one page ago:
Btw, I don't see a problem with making her invulnerable while throwing the big laser, you're supposed to punish her in the cooldown after the laser if you managed to block or dodge it succesfully.
Wouldn't more pushing and a larger amount of negative F.Adv. destroy the opponents ability to punish Marisa during her cooldown after sucessful blocking?
Hmm...it actually looks good for me... Also, nobody complained about that before. And at last, I couldn't find any other second differentation, which didn't had anything to do with the degree of Miasma Sweep. The weak version does have invisibilty on the start-up only. The strong version, on the other hand, was meant to have full invisibility, since it also costs power.
Well, the thing is Miasma Sweep when hitting slows down the flow of the game. Besides, one hit seems a better option, except for the EX version. Anti-airs also usually have invincibility only on the start-up. The best I could say is that EX versions should do more damage and hits. EX Ver. should be around 3-5 hits.
Okay, just did it. I also decided to remove the invisibility of the weak version and give the strong version invisbility only on start-up. The difference will be in the degree now. And this will be the degree of the Z version:
Code:
[State 1100] type = velset trigger1 = AnimElem = 4 X = 4 Y = -5.7
Now I just need to find good values for the weak and medium version. Should the weak or the medium version go almost straight upward?
Wait, what? That's odd. Seravy suggested me the invisibility during the dash.
I see what you're trying to kinda replicate (Kohaku's bottle toss thingy from her broom), but the moves are kinda different, Marisa's dash sports an easy hit from the front, Kohaku's bottle toss was kinda slow and took time to hit the opponent, trading in the invincibility.
Huh? I don't think Seravy was trying to replicate anything from Melty Blood, or did he? o_O I should definitely ask Seravy, whenever he had Kohaku's bottle bombardement in his mind, since I don't remember that he ever did something that has only remotely something to do with Melty Blood...
Another thing is that sometimes the projectiles push forward, while I've seen this problem a ton of times in many projectiles, it still should be addressed, maybe a facep2 in some projs. should do the trick, alternatingly making the opponent face the thing on hit.
While a facep2 in the projectiles will very probably break the projectiles and the projectile helpers to an sad extreme (since already at the current state, Orreries Universe isn't very stable), making the opponent face the projectiles sound good. But how do I do that?
LOL, yeah. I really cannot find anything, which could somehow justify a quote for Marisa against Koa...but Koa could get a quote against Marisa, if I should make Koa (and knowing me, I will very probably do Koa, but only as soon as I have learned, how to do 2-in-1 characters *hinthint*). And see it from the bright side: Marisa also doesn't have a quote against my waifu.
lol, well I was just joking here. But Koa isn't really hard to replicate, if you base her in her MUGEN incarnation and get inspired from her spellcards there. Though a melee Koa has already been made by da master :smug: *shot*
Well, doing Koa wouldn't be that hard, if I wouldn't have decided to give her an extra mode through pallette selection. But now, I'm talking to much. Also, while I was color seperating the Reimu sprites, I thought of using the animation of her Praying for Rain special, which Seravy's Reimu has, for her aerial strong normal. What do you think of this idea?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 13, 2013, 10:05:33 pm
Btw, I don't see a problem with making her invulnerable while throwing the big laser, you're supposed to punish her in the cooldown after the laser if you managed to block or dodge it succesfully.
Wouldn't more pushing and a larger amount of negative F.Adv. destroy the opponents ability to punish Marisa during her cooldown after sucessful blocking?
They still could punish her with enough negative F.Adv, I honestly think you should check out other beams from other characters that do push all the way through and see how they work out in terms of F. Adv and pushing.
Huh? I don't think Seravy was trying to replicate anything from Melty Blood, or did he? o_O I should definitely ask Seravy, whenever he had Kohaku's bottle bombardement in his mind, since I don't remember that he ever did something that has only remotely something to do with Melty Blood...
I'm dumb, but I'm just trying to compare her broom dash with another char with an attack with similar movement, for you to see the difference between when invincibility should be used and when it shouldn't. Marisa gets on her broom pretty fast and attacks fast due to that, the only moment where she seems easily punishable is the startup.
While a facep2 in the projectiles will very probably break the projectiles and the projectile helpers to an sad extreme (since already at the current state, Orreries Universe isn't very stable), making the opponent face the projectiles sound good. But how do I do that?
Well, doing Koa wouldn't be that hard, if I wouldn't have decided to give her an extra mode through pallette selection. But now, I'm talking to much. Also, while I was color seperating the Reimu sprites, I thought of using the animation of her Praying for Rain special, which Seravy's Reimu has, for her aerial strong normal. What do you think of this idea?
It really isn't speaking Koa's normals and attacks are kinda straight out of Patchy and Remi.
I really have no idea since I don't have that character, since I never use 1.0 anyway. I only use said version of the engine for testing chars, and that's it.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 14, 2013, 06:38:34 am
Also, while I was color seperating the Reimu sprites, I thought of using the animation of her Praying for Rain special, which Seravy's Reimu has, for her aerial strong normal. What do you think of this idea?
I really have no idea since I don't have that character, since I never use 1.0 anyway. I only use said version of the engine for testing chars, and that's it.
Don't worry, I got you covered: (http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/908/dr9h.png) Of course, if I want to use that, I have to use a different axis and also ditch the effect, but that wouldn't be a problem...
Btw, I don't see a problem with making her invulnerable while throwing the big laser, you're supposed to punish her in the cooldown after the laser if you managed to block or dodge it succesfully.
Wouldn't more pushing and a larger amount of negative F.Adv. destroy the opponents ability to punish Marisa during her cooldown after sucessful blocking?
They still could punish her with enough negative F.Adv, I honestly think you should check out other beams from other characters that do push all the way through and see how they work out in terms of F. Adv and pushing.
Now I just need to find good values for the weak and medium version. Should the weak or the medium version go almost straight upward?
Rule of thumb is weak should be the safest with least air time (although anti-airs are all unsafe), and medium has to be inbetween strong and weak.
W-Wait, last time I checked, the strong versions of Rice's old characters always combined the weak and the meidum version. Hey, that gives me an idea: What do you all think, if I make the weak version almost straight up and the medium version grounded? Or should it be reversed? I don't really know, what of this two things is safer...
Yep, I checked. Maybe it's because your MUGEN hasn't been set to display the sheer amount of projectiles spawned by those laser beams...
Code:
;Maximum number of helpers allowed in total. ;Set to a lower number to save memory (minimum 4, maximum 56). HelperMax = 56
;Maximum number of projectiles allowed per player. ;Set to a lower number to save memory (minimum 5). PlayerProjectileMax = 32
I guess so, but you should have given an indication in the readme to raise HelperMax and projectileMax to a certain number, don't you think?
Yeah, it seems I forgot to mention it. But then again, I also heard that it's kinda rude to ask others to change their own MUGEN settings. Maybe there exist a way to do these beams with far less projectiles...
Damn, I also forgot to mention her aerial command normal. :wall: Just press Down+Y when in air. Will update the readme for sure...
While a facep2 in the projectiles will very probably break the projectiles and the projectile helpers to an sad extreme (since already at the current state, Orreries Universe isn't very stable), making the opponent face the projectiles sound good. But how do I do that?
I guess so, but you should have given an indication in the readme to raise HelperMax and projectileMax to a certain number, don't you think? Yeah, it seems I forgot to mention it. But then again, I also heard that it's kinda rude to ask others to change their own MUGEN settings.
Segalow by The_None has an indication to set helpermax at 56 in his readme.
Huh? But why? I thought, powerful attacks need to be punishable so they wont be broken...or am I wrong? o_O
Yes, but I mean when Marisa is doing her little animation of getting off the ground to her broom or when Marisa's starting the Broomyuken. The rest should have no invincible frames.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 14, 2013, 09:09:01 am
Huh? But why? I thought, powerful attacks need to be punishable so they wont be broken...or am I wrong? o_O
Yes, but I mean when Marisa is doing her little animation of getting off the ground to her broom or when Marisa's starting the Broomyuken. The rest should have no invincible frames.
Uhm...okay. I just changed it now. Also, I will now update Master Spark and then a new beta will be out.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 14, 2013, 09:18:42 am
UniqHitCount? TimeMod? I'm helpless... :-\ Seravy, on the other hand, handled the Master Spark collision with projectiles instead of a helper. That really isn't a help either...
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 14, 2013, 10:23:48 am
UniqHitCount? TimeMod? I'm helpless... :-\ Seravy, on the other hand, handled the Master Spark collision with projectiles instead of a helper. That really isn't a help either...
This code is saying that every time Time%2=1 (aka every time time =1; =3; =5.. and so on) and whenever the times this beam has hit less times than Var(4) on its parent helper; the hit-def will trigger, that's not our important thing. The code is saying that, for the final hit it would use velocities -8,-3 on hit and -9 on the last hit that was blocked. And -0.1 if it is not the final hit.
Let me study your master spark code and I'll see how to handle it and make it do a similar hit behavior. Posted: July 14, 2013, 10:28:52 am Your masterspark deals 16 hits, and its hitdef triggers on times 0,3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,33,36,39,42 and 45
Proceed :} Posted: July 14, 2013, 10:50:08 am For the frame advantage business, try making it so anim 2002 takes more time to complete its end.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 14, 2013, 11:45:26 am
Tried it...it still doesn't work. EDIT: Oh wait, it does work now.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 14, 2013, 12:32:13 pm
Quote
I see what you're trying to kinda replicate (Kohaku's bottle toss thingy from her broom), but the moves are kinda different, Marisa's dash sports an easy hit from the front, Kohaku's bottle toss was kinda slow and took time to hit the opponent, trading in the invincibility.
Actually, I suggested that some versions of Witch Leyline should graze. I'm not sure about the reason but probably it was because there was no real advantage of using certain versions over others and this made them different. I don't see this ever hitting a Touhou opponent from a large distance without graze added, because there will be projectiles in between the players. So grazing is kinda necessary to make it useful (unless it's extremely fast, but still...).
Quote
Did you check whether the hitboxes were okay? Because some of the beams don't seem to have the hitbox.
It requires a higher than default PlayerProjectileMax. You must add a note to the readme that it is required! Otherwise people will use the default value and the lasers will not hit for them due to lack of projectiles.
Quote
Marisa gets on her broom pretty fast and attacks fast due to that, the only moment where she seems easily punishable is the startup.
I can only talk about my own Marisa but there she is vulnerable during startup and grazes when moving forward. For punishment, you can block it and hit her or use a spellcard that cannot be grazed. Or you can use a melee attack with good enough range and priority. (A great example of why you need priority on attacks...)
Quote
But then again, I also heard that it's kinda rude to ask others to change their own MUGEN settings. Maybe there exist a way to do these beams with far less projectiles...
There isn't and Elecbyte was an not thinking to set the defaults that low. Those numbers represent values reasonable for computers from 1998...any current machine can easily handle 1000s of projectiles and explods. People will need to increase those values anyway if they want to use any effect heavy character. Those maximum values are completely outdated and shouldn't even exist at all. It's not like they affect anything if there aren't that many of the effects spawned and a slowdown is better than gameplay elements not appearing even if the machine can't handle it. So the maximum setting is pretty much harmful in every case. At least then people will think "yes, I need a faster computer" and not "This character is buggy crap the author sucks" if the maximum is high and they start lagging. By the way, the size of those explods and the effects applied to them (rotation, transparency, scaling) matter much more than the number of them. The real issue is however the screen resolution. I have never seen lag from having too much explods or projectiles, but I have seen plenty when using a higher resolution with a crappy video card...
Besides, Mugen 1.0 defaults to 16:9 and most characters require 4:3 so the whole not asking thing fails right there.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 14, 2013, 12:51:48 pm
It requires a higher than default PlayerProjectileMax. You must add a note to the readme that it is required! Otherwise people will use the default value and the lasers will not hit for them due to lack of projectiles.
Yeah, Daniel already noted that, and I corrected that. The new beta should have the corrected read-me.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 14, 2013, 11:30:05 pm
Hola. I test her again and:
-Can do j.2Y over and over, which has her cancel her current air momentum, she should only do this command move once. -There seems to be cornerpushing in the air attacks. Which prevents good jump-in combos to be executed in the corner. -Miasma Sweep X is too high, Miasma Sweep Y Whiffs, Miasma Sweep Z still has bad hit velocities. I know you're trying to avoid infinites, but low hit velocities for antiairs can make these attacks unsafe on hit, which is not what we want. We only want them to be unsafe on block. Thing is, just make all three variations with different heights and different hit velocities, the higher the version, the higher the height. -Can dash then crouch. -2C continues to be safe on block. -Witch Leyline Z should have recoil on hit, strange cause it recoils on guard. -Master Spark: 2002 anim should take longer for the opponent to be able to strike her back easier. -I love the fuck out of Final Spark. (Not a complain, I liek)
:3 That's all I can find for now, hope it helps.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 15, 2013, 02:38:44 pm
-There seems to be cornerpushing in the air attacks. Which prevents good jump-in combos to be executed in the corner.
Removed the cornerpush, though I still can't cancel her aerial medium into her aerial strong. :-\ Aside from that, I finally implemented cancels from normals into crouch normals and vice-versa.
-Miasma Sweep X is too high, Miasma Sweep Y Whiffs, Miasma Sweep Z still has bad hit velocities. I know you're trying to avoid infinites, but low hit velocities for antiairs can make these attacks unsafe on hit, which is not what we want. We only want them to be unsafe on block. Thing is, just make all three variations with different heights and different hit velocities, the higher the version, the higher the height.
Okay, here is what I made: -X version now only goes about as much high as the Z version, but I also made it more straight up. -Y version has been slowed down. Sadly, I have no idea why it whiffs, since the whole animation has colision... -Updated the hitvels of the X version and Z version, so the opponent gets launched higher.
Do you mean with 2C that sweep attack? Because I do remember that I have increased the F.Adv...
That's the problem right there. Increasing the F.Adv causes it to be safe on block. Prior to the update I was able to link her 2C into itself up to 3 times before the opponent finally hits the ground. You'd want to increase the recovery time on the animation in this case.
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Stuff about Miasma Sweep
Why not use a Shoryuken as a reference? The moves are extremely similar aside from the fact that all versions of Shoryu have some kind of startup invincibility, even if they don't cover all of the startup or active frames, whereas only the light versions of Miasma Sweep have it:
Actually, I suggested that some versions of Witch Leyline should graze. I'm not sure about the reason but probably it was because there was no real advantage of using certain versions over others and this made them different. I don't see this ever hitting a Touhou opponent from a large distance without graze added, because there will be projectiles in between the players. So grazing is kinda necessary to make it useful (unless it's extremely fast, but still...).
Except the advantage that one version had over the other, at least in IaMP, was startup versus distance. The A version had faster startup but traveled less distance, while the B version had slower startup but traveled further and had more active frames as a result.
EDIT: The B/Strong version did, in fact, have graze frames in IaMP. SWR/Soku's versions didn't have grazing. Still didn't stop the move from being used in the latter case.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 15, 2013, 04:56:54 pm
Do you mean with 2C that sweep attack? Because I do remember that I have increased the F.Adv...
That's the problem right there. Increasing the F.Adv causes it to be safe on block. Prior to the update I was able to link her 2C into itself up to 3 times before the opponent finally hits the ground. You'd want to increase the recovery time on the animation in this case.
Why not use a Shoryuken as a reference? The moves are extremely similar aside from the fact that all versions of Shoryu have some kind of startup invincibility, even if they don't cover all of the startup or active frames, whereas only the light versions of Miasma Sweep have it:
I actually tried to use Shoryuken as a reference. I just forgot that the start-up invisibility was not a Tiger Uppercut exclusive thing. :wall: I will add the startup invibility to all versions then, that's for sure. However, I could still need some reference in terms of movement, but if possible, then from a 4-button game with EX moves, please. Using Street Fighter as a reference for movement doesn't sound like a good idea, since most of the specials (in this case also Shoryu) have 4 versions because of the 6-button system, while my Marisa only has 3 versions...
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 15, 2013, 05:30:38 pm
I dont see why you're doing all these calculations then you can just load stupa's training and just get the frame advantage that way.
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I actually tried to use Shoryuken as a reference. I just forgot that the start-up invisibility was not a Tiger Uppercut exclusive thing. :wall: I will add the startup invibility to all versions then, that's for sure. However, I could still need some reference in terms of movement, but if possible, then from a 4-button game with EX moves, please. Using Street Fighter as a reference for movement doesn't sound like a good idea, since most of the specials (in this case also Shoryu) have 4 versions because of the 6-button system, while my Marisa only has 3 versions...
Since when did specials in Street Fighter have 4 versions aside from Teleports? Unless you mean 3 regular + 1 EX? You dont need a 6 button fighter for that. And if its movement velocities you're worried about, a simple look at said move and you'll know that light barely takes you off the ground while the stronger versions take you further off the ground.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 15, 2013, 05:42:34 pm
I actually tried to use Shoryuken as a reference. I just forgot that the start-up invisibility was not a Tiger Uppercut exclusive thing. :wall: I will add the startup invibility to all versions then, that's for sure. However, I could still need some reference in terms of movement, but if possible, then from a 4-button game with EX moves, please. Using Street Fighter as a reference for movement doesn't sound like a good idea, since most of the specials (in this case also Shoryu) have 4 versions because of the 6-button system, while my Marisa only has 3 versions...
Since when did specials in Street Fighter have 4 versions aside from Teleports? Unless you mean 3 regular + 1 EX? You dont need a 6 button fighter for that. And if its movement velocities you're worried about, a simple look at said move and you'll know that light barely takes you off the ground while the stronger versions take you further off the ground.
Yep, I meant 3 + 1 EX. My Marisa only has 2 + 1 EX. Also, I did know about the light barely taking of the ground. However, it also didn't gave the character additional horizontal range, rendering the X version to be rather useless. However, I could still switch around the X and Y version of Miasma Sweep to match the movement velocities of Shoryu a bit more. Would that be okay for you all?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 15, 2013, 07:27:28 pm
Yep, I meant 3 + 1 EX. My Marisa only has 2 + 1 EX. Also, I did know about the light barely taking of the ground. However, it also didn't gave the character additional horizontal range, rendering the X version to be rather useless. However, I could still switch around the X and Y version of Miasma Sweep to match the movement velocities of Shoryu a bit more. Would that be okay for you all?
I just reccomend you to emulate shoryukens how they work in games, it's not really that hard. X has least height, Y has better height, and Z has most height, the horizontal reach doesn't matter as much, but has to be enough so you can use this move to counter jump-ins and airbone opponents.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 15, 2013, 07:43:26 pm
Okay, I have updated Miasma Sweep now, taking the advice of RicePigeon and Daniel into account. However, I actually took Ken as a reference, so that means that not only the Z version gives out hits. X version: least height from the two non-EX Miasma Sweeps, but deals 3 hits Y version: largest height from the two non-EX Miasma Sweeps, but deals only one hit NOTE: Yeah, I know it should be vice-verse in terms of hits to be truly Ken, but here, I take Seravy's advice of making the X version on par with the Y version into account. Z version: the EX version, and thus, largest height of all and deals 5 hits I also tested it out, and it seems fine to me. What do you all think of it?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: jaede_ on July 15, 2013, 07:55:43 pm
Okay, I have updated Miasma Sweep now, taking the advice of RicePigeon and Daniel into account. However, I actually took Ken as a reference, so that means that not only the Z version gives out hits. X version: least height from the two non-EX Miasma Sweeps, but deals 3 hits Y version: largest height from the two non-EX Miasma Sweeps, but deals only one hit NOTE: Yeah, I know it should be vice-verse in terms of hits to be truly Ken, but here, I take Seravy's advice of making the X version on par with the Y version into account. Z version: the EX version, and thus, largest height of all and deals 5 hits I also tested it out, and it seems fine to me. What do you all think of it?
I'll have to see it in action to truly tell you. So once you have things ready be sure to hit me up.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 15, 2013, 08:13:26 pm
Updated again.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 15, 2013, 08:15:55 pm
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Blame people telling me to disable things, I almost took it as fact. >.<
My characters can cancel running into crouching as well, except for the initial 10 ticks of startup.
Okay, I have updated Miasma Sweep now, taking the advice of RicePigeon and Daniel into account. However, I actually took Ken as a reference, so that means that not only the Z version gives out hits. X version: least height from the two non-EX Miasma Sweeps, but deals 3 hits Y version: largest height from the two non-EX Miasma Sweeps, but deals only one hit NOTE: Yeah, I know it should be vice-verse in terms of hits to be truly Ken, but here, I take Seravy's advice of making the X version on par with the Y version into account. Z version: the EX version, and thus, largest height of all and deals 5 hits I also tested it out, and it seems fine to me. What do you all think of it?
Sounds good. I'll take a look at her again when I have time.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 15, 2013, 08:21:43 pm
Okay, I have updated Miasma Sweep now, taking the advice of RicePigeon and Daniel into account. However, I actually took Ken as a reference, so that means that not only the Z version gives out hits. X version: least height from the two non-EX Miasma Sweeps, but deals 3 hits Y version: largest height from the two non-EX Miasma Sweeps, but deals only one hit NOTE: Yeah, I know it should be vice-verse in terms of hits to be truly Ken, but here, I take Seravy's advice of making the X version on par with the Y version into account. Z version: the EX version, and thus, largest height of all and deals 5 hits I also tested it out, and it seems fine to me. What do you all think of it?
What exactly do you mean by "on par with the Y version"? You mean damage-wise? Both versions of Miasma Sweep did identical damage in IaMP, and as for Shoryukens, the more punishable versions have always done more damage. Actually now that I think about it, having the Light version deal 3 hits, coupled with being so close to the ground, may actually end up making the move too safe, but I'll check it out when I get the chance.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 15, 2013, 08:44:53 pm
Okay, maybe "on par" was a poor choice of words. With that, I actually meant that both X and Y versions have their own advantages, so there is a higher chance that both versions get used. In my case: X version has less height but more hits then the Y version. :)
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 16, 2013, 04:25:58 am
Y version of Miasma Sweep only deals 32 damage? X deals 72 by comparison.
X version of Miasma Sweep leaves her at neutral frame advantage. Y version leaves her at -20.
2Z still leaves Marisa at +1 on block.
All 3 versions of Witch Leyline have the exact same startup times and frame advantage on block.
Why does the X version of witch leyline have immunity to normals?
Said immunity lasts through the entirety of the X version's active frames.
Getting hit by a projectile during Witch Leyline causes Marisa to pass through the floor:
(http://i.imgur.com/MT7l6AE.png)
The combo counter for Meteoric Shower sometimes resets during the move, even if P2 hasnt returned to an idle state.
Master Spark doesn't interact with non-helper Projectiles.
AI is unable to detect Master Spark from full screen, and will make no effort to block it.
Meteoric Shower has no guardsparks.
AI is unable to guard Meteoric Shower or Escape Velocity from point blank range.
QCF+z does 60 damage on block and only about 102 on hit.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 16, 2013, 06:54:35 pm
X version of Miasma Sweep leaves her at neutral frame advantage. Y version leaves her at -20.
2Z still leaves Marisa at +1 on block.
All 3 versions of Witch Leyline have the exact same startup times and frame advantage on block.
Ah thanks. I can finally put Training into use now.
Hmm, I'm pretty sure that I can somehow change it through ifelse triggers in hitstuntime/hitslidetime. What frame advantages do you suggest?
Hmm, I could reduce the hitstuntime/hitslidetime there... FAKE EDIT: After some tinkering, I managed to emulate the frame advantage from the source game.
So you want that the frame advantage has a higher negative number on the strong version and a lower negative number on the weak version? I could manage...
Master Spark doesn't interact with non-helper Projectiles.
So you want that non-helper projectiles get destroyed when they hit Master Spark? Aside from the blue clsn inside the red clsn, I also have to add a nothitby controller so the laser cannot be attacked, right?
AI is unable to detect Master Spark from full screen, and will make no effort to block it.
AI is unable to guard Meteoric Shower or Escape Velocity from point blank range.
Ugh...a AI tutorial would be nice there, since I have no idea, how to make the AI block on set attacks... --;
guard.dist = <something> on hitdefs
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 16, 2013, 08:37:06 pm
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It's a bit complicated. It's mostly a cosmetic issue so don't bother on it for the moment.
If he's using my old damage dampener, which was based on hitcount, then it's going to cause the damage dampener to reset in the middle of the move.
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It's HUGE Chip damage, and very low Damage for an EX Move
Pretty much this. Though its not unheard of for EX moves to do the same, or even less, damage as the Strong version of specials (EX moves have other advantages besides add'l damage.)
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guard.dist = <something> on hitdefs
Thats only for once the hitdef becomes active. You'll need to use the Attackdist controller as well.
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Okay, updated. Y now deals 60 damage.
Still feels too low. Honestly, the X version should stay as the one doing only a single hit. Its swiftness and difficulty to punish compared to the other versions justify it.
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Because the X version travels a smaller distance then the Y version.
Still, I haven't heard of a move that grants immunity to normal attacks, but not specials. Even then, Witch Leyline never had immunity aside from grazing and that's for projectiles.
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Ugh...I have no idea how to fix that... --;
Zzyzzyxx's Reimu, as well as my own, has this. It involves sending the projectile to an idle state rather than destroying it and ONLY destroying the helper once it loses its target (accomplished through numtarget=0).
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 16, 2013, 09:39:40 pm
Still feels too low. Honestly, the X version should stay as the one doing only a single hit. Its swiftness and difficulty to punish compared to the other versions justify it.
Hmm...I actually lowered the hit stun on the X version, so I wouldn't say it's difficult to punish: F.Adv. (X ver): 5 F.Adv. (Y ver): 0 F.Adv. (Z ver): -11
Because the X version travels a smaller distance then the Y version.
Still, I haven't heard of a move that grants immunity to normal attacks, but not specials. Even then, Witch Leyline never had immunity aside from grazing and that's for projectiles.
Ah, okay. Fixed, invisibility now only works on normal and special projectiles. I also added a NotHitBy guide now, though it's still unfinished.
Zzyzzyxx's Reimu, as well as my own, has this. It involves sending the projectile to an idle state rather than destroying it and ONLY destroying the helper once it loses its target (accomplished through numtarget=0).
Uhm, does that solve the counter reset problem or the Witch Leyline problem? :S
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 17, 2013, 05:27:20 pm
Ugh...now I see it too after some well placed pauses...how do I fix that?
Cant take a look at the moment but I suspect it may have to do with an improper statetype and/or physics N without manually setting her into a landing state.
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If that's the case, then I think I will never be able to solve this, since I actually want to keep the current damage dampener... :-\
See comment about the counter reset issue in my last post.
Hmm...I actually lowered the hit stun on the X version, so I wouldn't say it's difficult to punish: F.Adv. (X ver): 5 F.Adv. (Y ver): 0 F.Adv. (Z ver): -11
Why would you give the X version positive frame advantage though? Now you just made it safer. In fact, now only the EX version is unsafe, and even then not by much.
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Uhm, does that solve the counter reset problem or the Witch Leyline problem? :S
It solves the counter reset, but Witch Leyline is a different problem entirely, most likely having to do with the state physics. I'll take another look later on so I can determine what the problem actually is.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 17, 2013, 06:15:42 pm
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guard.dist = <something> on hitdefs
Yes, that's it but you need to make sure it's active right from the beginning of the attack. If the hitdef doesn't trigger on time=0 only at the time of the first frame with clsn1 then
Type=Attackdist Trigger1=1 value=distance
works better.
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The combo counter for Meteoric Shower sometimes resets during the move, even if P2 hasnt returned to an idle state.
Unless it was changed since I last saw the code, it uses random to spawn the projectiles, so the amount of time between two projectile spawns (and the total amount) varies. I advise to use time %4=0 or gametime %4=0 instead of random<250 to make the distribution even.
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So you want that non-helper projectiles get destroyed when they hit Master Spark? Aside from the blue clsn inside the red clsn, I also have to add a nothitby controller so the laser cannot be attacked, right?
No. If you use a nothitby, it won't get hit, thus the projectiles won't be removed because they are not hitting. You are supposed to put a "P" into the hitflag that removes any non-helper projectiles (except those that have no blue clsn)
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It's a bit complicated. It's mostly a cosmetic issue so don't bother on it for the moment.
Probably no, if I remember well, the combo counter resets because the opponent is actually regaining control as the gap between the projectiles is random (see above). Unless that random<250 was removed from the code already.
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Still, I haven't heard of a move that grants immunity to normal attacks, but not specials.
One of my Remilia's attacks might end up like that, Demon Lord Cradle, that option is leading the poll right now. Is it normal everything (NA,NT,NP), or NA only? While it's weird, there isn't much wrong with NA only, but all 3 would be bad.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 17, 2013, 07:23:53 pm
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One of my Remilia's attacks might end up like that, Demon Lord Cradle, that option is leading the poll right now. Is it normal everything (NA,NT,NP), or NA only? While it's weird, there isn't much wrong with NA only, but all 3 would be bad.
When I refer to normals, I'm referring to 5a, 5b, 5c, 5x, 5y, 5z, and such, you know, the regular punches and kicks. Typically if a move is invulnerable to melee normals, specials, or supers, its invulnerable to all three. Same for projectiles afaik.
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Unless it was changed since I last saw the code, it uses random to spawn the projectiles, so the amount of time between two projectile spawns (and the total amount) varies. I advise to use time %4=0 or gametime %4=0 instead of random<250 to make the distribution even.
That's not whats causing it, though. P2 is still in a hitstate when the next projectile hits, but the combo is resetting due to the previous helper projectile destroying itself before the next one can hit. The following from my Reimu topic should solve the issue:
It should be a 3 hit combo, but the helper disappeared before she made contact with her Jumping B. Hence the combo meter glitched.
It's because the trigger used for the destroyself sctrl is wrong.
The helper must stay on the screen until the opponent recovers, or until it makes contact with another projectile.
Change her state 1111 (the state where the helper vanishes) to this:
;----------------------- ; Hakurei Amulet Destroy [Statedef 1111] type = S movetype = I physics = N anim = 8020 velset = 0,0 movehitpersist = 1
[State 1111, nothitby] type = nothitby trigger1 = ishelper time = 1 value = SCA ignorehitpause = 1
[State 1111, NoShadow] type = AssertSpecial trigger1 = ishelper flag = noshadow ignorehitpause = 1
[State 1111, Zeeky] type = changestate trigger1 = !animtime value = 1112
Instated of using destroyself, all I made in this state was playing the animation used by the helper when it vanishes (in your case it's the hitspark).
After the animaton plays I can change my state again, to a new state 1112. This is where the helper is gonna use the destroyself:
;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Statedef 1112] type = A physics = N movetype = I anim = 1998 ; your blank animation velset = 0, 0 ctrl = 0 movehitpersist = 1
[State 1112, nothitby] type = nothitby trigger1 = ishelper time = 1 value = SCA ignorehitpause = 1
[State 1112, NoShadow] type = AssertSpecial trigger1 = ishelper flag = noshadow ignorehitpause = 1
In this case, Reimu won't be able to release another amulet, because the helper stays in the state 1112 until the opponent gets up from the liedown animation.
Because the downed opponent is still the target of your helper. That's why it didn't disappear. The code above considers the possibility of hitting the downed opponent.
In SF2, Ryu can release a hadouken right after the previous one makes contact with the opponent / another projectile. It means that Reimu should be able to release an amulet if the previous one is in the state 1111 or 1112.
Achieving this is easy.
Add a projectile flag in her statedef -3. You're gonna use a var:
Yes, that's it but you need to make sure it's active right from the beginning of the attack. If the hitdef doesn't trigger on time=0 only at the time of the first frame with clsn1 then
Type=Attackdist Trigger1=1 value=distance
works better.
Ah, thanks. Added it with a a distance of 1280, which should also cover widescreens.
So you want that non-helper projectiles get destroyed when they hit Master Spark? Aside from the blue clsn inside the red clsn, I also have to add a nothitby controller so the laser cannot be attacked, right?
No. If you use a nothitby, it won't get hit, thus the projectiles won't be removed because they are not hitting. You are supposed to put a "P" into the hitflag that removes any non-helper projectiles (except those that have no blue clsn)
The combo counter for Meteoric Shower sometimes resets during the move, even if P2 hasnt returned to an idle state.
Unless it was changed since I last saw the code, it uses random to spawn the projectiles, so the amount of time between two projectile spawns (and the total amount) varies. I advise to use time %4=0 or gametime %4=0 instead of random<250 to make the distribution even.
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It's a bit complicated. It's mostly a cosmetic issue so don't bother on it for the moment.
Probably no, if I remember well, the combo counter resets because the opponent is actually regaining control as the gap between the projectiles is random (see above). Unless that random<250 was removed from the code already.
Okay, I have looked into my code, and there is no random<250, but a random%4 = 0...
One of my Remilia's attacks might end up like that, Demon Lord Cradle, that option is leading the poll right now. Is it normal everything (NA,NT,NP), or NA only? While it's weird, there isn't much wrong with NA only, but all 3 would be bad.
When I refer to normals, I'm referring to 5a, 5b, 5c, 5x, 5y, 5z, and such, you know, the regular punches and kicks. Typically if a move is invulnerable to melee normals, specials, or supers, its invulnerable to all three. Same for projectiles afaik.
Quote
Unless it was changed since I last saw the code, it uses random to spawn the projectiles, so the amount of time between two projectile spawns (and the total amount) varies. I advise to use time %4=0 or gametime %4=0 instead of random<250 to make the distribution even.
That's not whats causing it, though. P2 is still in a hitstate when the next projectile hits, but the combo is resetting due to the previous helper projectile destroying itself before the next one can hit. The following from my Reimu topic should solve the issue:
It should be a 3 hit combo, but the helper disappeared before she made contact with her Jumping B. Hence the combo meter glitched.
It's because the trigger used for the destroyself sctrl is wrong.
The helper must stay on the screen until the opponent recovers, or until it makes contact with another projectile.
Change her state 1111 (the state where the helper vanishes) to this:
;----------------------- ; Hakurei Amulet Destroy [Statedef 1111] type = S movetype = I physics = N anim = 8020 velset = 0,0 movehitpersist = 1
[State 1111, nothitby] type = nothitby trigger1 = ishelper time = 1 value = SCA ignorehitpause = 1
[State 1111, NoShadow] type = AssertSpecial trigger1 = ishelper flag = noshadow ignorehitpause = 1
[State 1111, Zeeky] type = changestate trigger1 = !animtime value = 1112
Instated of using destroyself, all I made in this state was playing the animation used by the helper when it vanishes (in your case it's the hitspark).
After the animaton plays I can change my state again, to a new state 1112. This is where the helper is gonna use the destroyself:
;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Statedef 1112] type = A physics = N movetype = I anim = 1998 ; your blank animation velset = 0, 0 ctrl = 0 movehitpersist = 1
[State 1112, nothitby] type = nothitby trigger1 = ishelper time = 1 value = SCA ignorehitpause = 1
[State 1112, NoShadow] type = AssertSpecial trigger1 = ishelper flag = noshadow ignorehitpause = 1
In this case, Reimu won't be able to release another amulet, because the helper stays in the state 1112 until the opponent gets up from the liedown animation.
Because the downed opponent is still the target of your helper. That's why it didn't disappear. The code above considers the possibility of hitting the downed opponent.
In SF2, Ryu can release a hadouken right after the previous one makes contact with the opponent / another projectile. It means that Reimu should be able to release an amulet if the previous one is in the state 1111 or 1112.
Achieving this is easy.
Add a projectile flag in her statedef -3. You're gonna use a var:
That's all I have to say regarding helpers as projectiles. Hope that this text doesn't sound too complicated.
Thanks, that could be useful for when I do Hakurei Amulet for my Reimu. However, I don't know, how I should use that on projectiles/projectile helpers, which actually don't disappear when they hit the opponent, but just stop hitting the opponent? Also, I would be glad, if someone could tell me how to solve the Witch Leyline problem of Marisa passing through the floor after being hit by a projectile. Oh, and: (http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/908/dr9h.png) I'm still thinking on whenever I should use that as air strong or not (but minus the effects). What do you all think of it?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Seravy on July 19, 2013, 10:06:54 am
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Okay, I have looked into my code, and there is no random<250, but a random%4 = 0...
That's effectively the same thing. 25% change of triggering.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: MightyKombat on July 19, 2013, 10:19:30 am
SCrew it, can I be a beta tester too?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 19, 2013, 10:58:17 am
Yes, you can, but I need to finish the implementation of the current feedback first. Then, all the beta testers can get the new beta. In the meanwhile, you may want to download this first: http://www.sendspace.com/file/bdk102 It's an edit of RP's Mima I did in order to test out Marisa's special intro against her.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on July 19, 2013, 07:22:05 pm
Tested out Marisa some more, and so far the floor sinking only seems to happen against Stupa's Training. Its not custom states either that's causing it and other projectiles seem to cause Marisa to behave normally. If anything it may be a problem in Marisa's state 5030. I'll let you know if I find anything else regarding this.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 19, 2013, 10:18:05 pm
Ah, okay. Also, updated Marisa again.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on July 31, 2013, 04:29:35 pm
Sorry to bump, but as you may have seen in my sig, I'm going to vacation tommorow. If you still have some feedback for my Marisa, feel free to post, but I can only respond after the vacation. With that said, here's is one last message to my beta-testers: Have fun! ;D
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on August 15, 2013, 06:04:52 pm
Great news everyone. I finally got the translation of the lines for Marisa's part of her intro against Reimu thanks to ArmorGon. Now I just need to code the intro and get the voice samples (whoever will be the VA will be kept a surprise until I release a special RAR file). On a progress-related note, I also tried to spice up the design of Final Spark, but I wasn't happy with the results... :-\ With all that said, I would really like to know, if you all still have some feedback for the current version... The next beta will then have most of your notes implemented plus her special intro against Reimu (though no patch for any Reimu this time ATM, but there will be one for Seravy's Reimu as soon as I have both her line (I wasn't satisfied with the old one, so I try to come up with a different one which will get translated then) and the needed sprites for that).
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: MightyKombat on August 16, 2013, 12:55:26 am
English VA? Its not gonna be Rina-Chan is it?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on August 16, 2013, 07:29:08 am
Nope, Japanese VA for this WIP. Also, do you have anything to note about the current version of the beta I have sent to you?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: MightyKombat on August 16, 2013, 07:34:13 am
Its alright. Plays just like old school RP.
Also who's this VA gonna be then?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on August 16, 2013, 07:45:28 am
Well, you will know soon enough as soon as the samples are ready. I just need to hope that everything works as intended.
And thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on September 07, 2013, 07:34:59 pm
Sorry to bump, but I just wanted to let you know that I decided to update the color seperation for Reimu thanks to some color values found by Earthzephyr. That's the reason, why some parts reverted back to 0% and why I have split the CS process into two parts. Also, for those, who are the beta-testers of my Marisa WIP, I really don't want to sound impatient, but please don't forget to post your feedback there. I really need to know, whenever I have to improve something, before I can continue to work on Marisa...
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Mr.Silver on September 08, 2013, 03:00:44 pm
Touhou, right? Why don't you give her an air dash so she can do some juggles here and there.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on September 08, 2013, 03:15:50 pm
She had an air dash all the time. :I
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Mr.Silver on September 08, 2013, 03:25:04 pm
I didn't know. I never seen the mugen fights or their game, but I recognize the sprites.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on September 08, 2013, 03:49:22 pm
Nah, it's okay.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on September 22, 2013, 01:05:42 pm
Okay, good news first: I will gonna send a new beta to you all soon. I already have created a new throw for Marisa (now 90% from scratch). The bad news, though: The original voice actor has RL problems and lost interest in voice acting, and thus told me to not wait for the samples anymore. So yeah, I guess that means that I also need a voice actor for Marisa then... ...for those, who wonder, how she sounds: I basically just use the voice samples of Kohaku's Marisa with some additional voice samples I have found. Whoever is interested, please let me know, and I will send you the needed lines through PM.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on November 01, 2013, 09:27:34 pm
Okay, sorry to bump, but I just received a nice PM of Seravy with his latest feedback, so there we go:
-DFz is way too random. I measured damage between 47 and 160. Too much of a gamble I think if I also consider it costs power to use. This much damage could be fair without a power cost.
-I somehow get the feeling that the randomness of the damage comes from the combination of the damage dampener and the multihit nature of this attack. Maybe I should remove the dampener for the Z version then...
-She isn't invincible during the startup of Master Spark, I thought she was meant to be?
Huh? She was? Wouldn't that be a bit too good for a large laser, which is merely a LVL1 super? I dunno, I first need to know, what the others think about it...
-Weird, Earthlight Ray has got the same guard flags like every other normally blockable attack...there is no reason for that to happen...
Additionally, I'm going to completely remake the Z version of Grand Stardust and slightly update Grand Stardust in general: Now the bottles will even blow up upon contact. I already am trying to implement it. I just need to make it work somehow...
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on February 08, 2014, 12:43:54 pm
Sorry to bump, but I just wanted to let you all know that I have updated Marisa_RP again. However, I finally want to release the character. Because of that, I will publically release Marisa_RP, when: -I have finished the last special intro (the one against Reimu, I have just finished her special intro against Alice and I already have finished her special intro against Mima before) -I have added her spin dizzy animation for compatibiliy with Seravy's characters That really means that only two points are left till the first public release of what was originally a tribute to RicePigeon. Stay tuned, and please contact me, whenever someone of you private beta testers want to try her out right now. And since I got a contributer star, you can also PM the feedback now, since I don't have to worry about the inbox anymore.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on February 24, 2014, 03:47:25 pm
Good news, everybody. There is some GREAT update now: -Updated the readme file now. I specifically looked at the read me BIOS of both RicePigeon's old Touhou characters and Seravy's Touhou characters, so I can avoid as many screw ups as possible. -thanks to the KOF king Vans, Grand Stardust is finally finished -I also have updated Orreries Sun The only things missing is the spin animation standards by Seravy and RockMARISA, her special intro against Reimu, and the update of Orreries Universe, where her invisibility finally gets replaced with an proper superarmor. I also might widen up the cast of private beta testers. I definitely want to contact the master feedbacker C.A.N. again and ask him, if he has time to feedback Marisa.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: The Answer on March 13, 2014, 07:47:41 pm
Her big port has so many stray pixels ewwww. her frame advantages are whacky, edit them some more to be less all over the place some knock downs are too long. her air fireball she floats up or down depending on if she ascended or descended which means I can cause her to float up I'm still trying to get her to fly off-screen. also she borked MTraining with her lvl 2 multi bomb super.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on March 13, 2014, 08:17:22 pm
Thanks for the feedback. I just hope that the other testers will follow suit eventually...
Oh, her big port...what a classic. I sadly cannot clean up sprites, and this one port was made a while ago already...I just hope, someone could help me with the stray pixel problems some time. But now, I want to finally finish the coding part first.
her frame advantages are whacky, edit them some more to be less all over the place some knock downs are too long.
Wait, that reminds me that there was some talk about her frame advantages already, which then resulted into me trying to replicate the frame data from Hisouten/Hisoutensoku, which, if I remember correctly, was also posted in this thread. Also, about the knockdowns, how do I make it like that so some attacks cause a shorter knockdown then others, what values should I use? EDIT1: http://hisouten.koumakan.jp/wiki/Kirisame_Marisa/Normal_Moves EDIT2: Whoops, now I have noticed that I screwed up some stuff. I've got to fix that.
her air fireball she floats up or down depending on if she ascended or descended which means I can cause her to float up I'm still trying to get her to fly off-screen.
Well, I coded the air fireball the same way like RicePigeon did with his old Yukari. However, I do hear the first time about the off-screen flying part.
also she borked MTraining with her lvl 2 multi bomb super.
Uhm, excuse me, but how exactly? Does the super deal too much damage? I'm sorry, but I only have the regular Training, and the lvl2 bomb super does so much damage: (http://i.imgur.com/2J655Qf.png) Also I would like your opinion on this: (http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/908/dr9h.png) Will that work as an aerial strong attack for Reimu? Because if not, then I have no idea what I could use instead...
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: The Answer on March 13, 2014, 08:30:30 pm
She broked MTraining by causing the hud system to mess up a bit with numbers disappearing and such. that fierce attack is whacky and looks too big maybe use it as a special or something. Also dat small Reimu port :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: TrinitroRoy on March 13, 2014, 08:43:52 pm
She broked MTraining by causing the hud system to mess up a bit with numbers disappearing and such. that fierce attack is whacky and looks too big maybe use it as a special or something. Also dat small Reimu port :thumbsdown:
LOL, that's not even my Reimu, but Seravy's Reimu. I added a screenshot of her, because she exactly had that attack in question as an special called "Praying for Rain". Also, it is the first time to hear that Earthlight Ray breaks the hud system. It really doesn't happen with the regular Training... Also, what fierce attack do you mean? Reimu's Praying for Rain I have posted? That really is just the FX. If it gets turned into an normal, then the hitbox will be altered as well.
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Ricepigeon on November 12, 2015, 07:24:05 pm
Considering that a Marisa_RP actually exists now, I'm curious, is this project still underway?
Title: Re: Marisa_RP
Post by: Sima Shi on November 12, 2015, 07:36:31 pm