I highly doubt people would donate money to her just in hopes of sleeping with her in the future or because she looks "hot." If she was in a strip club, maybe it would be a different story. How many people actually donated? Was there one big lump sum from some huge fan of hers? All these assumptions don't matter, all that matters is that she did exploit money and is now going to be living the life for a few years; longer, if she's smart about it, which she probably is.
She being hot is too inconsequential rmh, she got some pull because she is photogenic, but thats the same reason people want to trust a executive instead of a meth addict, or that they want to protect a nine year old girl instead of her mean old brothers. You could be making a case for stereotypes in that she is stereotypically pretty, but you are not, you are making a case for sex appeal and i think its sortof failing a lot, sorry.
Titiln said, March 25, 2013, 05:01:19 amyou're playing devil's advocate in a subject you have no idea aboutYeah, didn't I already make that clear? But to be fair, my point doesn't require much knowledge of the subject. It just seems obvious to me. My bet is that you guys have already said to much on the subject to back up to where I'm coming from anyway, so you're going to defend it regardless. Which is fine of course, and I don't have much interest in advancing my point, I'm just having fun kickin the same shit back at someone who's kickin at me and everybody like me.Iced said, March 25, 2013, 10:57:29 amShe being hot is too inconsequential rmh, she got some pull because she is photogenic, but thats the same reason people want to trust a executive instead of a meth addict, or that they want to protect a nine year old girl instead of her mean old brothers. You could be making a case for stereotypes in that she is stereotypically pretty, but you are not, you are making a case for sex appeal and i think its sortof failing a lot, sorry.@Iced: I don't see how her being attractive is inconsequential. You kind of bolster that with the examples you use, don't you? 'She's an attractive girl, so we should trust her to know what horrors follow from being attractive.' (this is why we trust an executive instead of a meth addict) Certainly not making the point for inconsequential. No need to be sorry, I appreciate you're taking the time to critique my reasoning, and if you care to continue, please do. At best I (or maybe you) could learn something new. I think you guys are missing my reasoning here. I'm not saying I think people are trying to get her to whore herself out by donating, I think it's much more subtle than that, and you're kind of straw manning me on it, which (in my own warped reality) tells me you're intentionally missing what I'm saying, (devil's advocacy alert) possibly because you're guilty. People don't need to think they're going to get into Megan Foxes pants by hanging her poster on their wall, but it sure as hell is sexy that has her hanging there.Now, I still feel like I can make a pretty decent case for my point here, but if it's something you guys don't want to hear, I won't bother, because again, it's just not that important to me. I think she's working the market with sexy and controversy and that's about it, which is far from unheard of. Would you rather I continue or stop here?
RobotMonkeyHead said, March 25, 2013, 07:55:26 pmIced said, March 25, 2013, 10:57:29 amShe being hot is too inconsequential rmh, she got some pull because she is photogenic, but thats the same reason people want to trust a executive instead of a meth addict, or that they want to protect a nine year old girl instead of her mean old brothers. You could be making a case for stereotypes in that she is stereotypically pretty, but you are not, you are making a case for sex appeal and i think its sortof failing a lot, sorry.@Iced: I don't see how her being attractive is inconsequential. You kind of bolster that with the examples you use, don't you? 'She's an attractive girl, so we should trust her to know what horrors follow from being attractive.' (this is why we trust an executive instead of a meth addict) Certainly not making the point for inconsequential. No need to be sorry, I appreciate you're taking the time to critique my reasoning, and if you care to continue, please do. At best I (or maybe you) could learn something new. I believe you are missing the point entirely. Quote'She's an attractive girl, so we should trust her to know what horrors follow from being attractive.' Thats not the point she is making at all, she is talking about sexism, not about horrors from being attractive, sexism is a real problem in the world and it doesnt affect "pretty girls" only.The examples I gave you arent based on sex appeal. You dont trust a executive because they give you the hots, you do so because they look presentable. If the Meth head in my example was hot you would still think she was attractive but that wouldnt mean she could command the attention of a board meeting. ( except if she ODed on the reunion table i guess ) QuoteI think you guys are missing my reasoning here. I'm not saying I think people are trying to get her to whore herself out by donating, I think it's much more subtle than that, and you're kind of straw manning me on it, which (in my own warped reality) tells me you're intentionally missing what I'm saying, (devil's advocacy alert) possibly because you're guilty. People don't need to think they're going to get into Megan Foxes pants by hanging her poster on their wall, but it sure as hell is sexy that has her hanging there.you are saying that people are donating towards her because they are attracted to her, even tho they know that they would never get anything with her, which is categorically wrong. Even if there was the offchance a small group of people saw her and thought "shes attractive i want her to have money" the huge bulk of her donations come from her charismatic approach to oppression. Shes presenting them a flag holder that they can identify on, which wouldnt work with someone with a bad pull on people, but that doesnt mean that they want to fuck her either.In your poster in the wall example she would more likely be a che guevara poster on the wall of a feminist than a sexy megan fox poster on the wall of a teenager. QuoteNow, I still feel like I can make a pretty decent case for my point here, but if it's something you guys don't want to hear, I won't bother, because again, it's just not that important to me. I think she's working the market with sexy and controversy and that's about it, which is far from unheard of. Would you rather I continue or stop here?You can continue all you want, but i believe your case of "shes hot so shes geting money from people " is fundamentally flawed.
Well, I'll take that as a cue to continue then.Iced said, March 25, 2013, 08:11:29 pmRobotMonkeyHead said, March 25, 2013, 07:55:26 pmIced said, March 25, 2013, 10:57:29 amShe being hot is too inconsequential rmh, she got some pull because she is photogenic, but thats the same reason people want to trust a executive instead of a meth addict, or that they want to protect a nine year old girl instead of her mean old brothers. You could be making a case for stereotypes in that she is stereotypically pretty, but you are not, you are making a case for sex appeal and i think its sortof failing a lot, sorry.@Iced: I don't see how her being attractive is inconsequential. You kind of bolster that with the examples you use, don't you? 'She's an attractive girl, so we should trust her to know what horrors follow from being attractive.' (this is why we trust an executive instead of a meth addict) Certainly not making the point for inconsequential. No need to be sorry, I appreciate you're taking the time to critique my reasoning, and if you care to continue, please do. At best I (or maybe you) could learn something new. I believe you are missing the point entirely. Quote'She's an attractive girl, so we should trust her to know what horrors follow from being attractive.' Thats not the point she is making at all, she is talking about sexism, not about horrors from being attractive, sexism is a real problem in the world and it doesnt affect "pretty girls" only.The examples I gave you arent based on sex appeal. You dont trust a executive because they give you the hots, you do so because they look presentable. If the Meth head in my example was hot you would still think she was attractive but that wouldnt mean she could command the attention of a board meeting. ( except if she ODed on the reunion table i guess ) Haha, yeah, ODing at the board meeting might just over ride physical appeal Ok, I'm not saying that's the point she's making tho, that's the point you were making: "she got some pull because she is photogenic, but that's the same reason people want to trust a executive instead of a meth addict..." = "She's an attractive woman so her insight into the 'horrors' that beset attractive women are more desirable". You could also phrase it: "She looks like she takes care of herself, so her opinion is probably seen as more valid than someone who doesn't." but either way it's seeking to validate credential judgment based on appearance (especially if her appearance is being used through stereotypes to assert credential), which is basically what I'm saying. Whether her attractiveness garnered her support from horny young adults, or feminist advocates (which would be even more hilariously ironic) I think if she were ass ugly (or male, given her audience), she might not have gotten half the chance to make her points in the first place, and people agreeing or disagreeing probably came afterwards, and often enough was probably initially contingent on her appearance (and likely gender). By following this discussion to any level of seriousness, I'm kind of overstepping the bounds of my stance, but whatevs. Here, check this link out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_attractiveness_stereotypeMy point, in one form "She's getting paid at least in large part because of how she looks (and likely her gender) given who she's pitching to (and maybe afterwards for controversy and being a damsel over at 4chan, which also contradict her stance)." Concerning this forum (gamers), I stand by my initial point. Do you think the gamer demographic 'mostly males under 35' were $158,000 concerned with sexism in video games before some hottie brought it up that they could come to the aid of? I don't. Iced said, March 25, 2013, 08:11:29 pmQuoteI think you guys are missing my reasoning here. I'm not saying I think people are trying to get her to whore herself out by donating, I think it's much more subtle than that, and you're kind of straw manning me on it, which (in my own warped reality) tells me you're intentionally missing what I'm saying, (devil's advocacy alert) possibly because you're guilty. People don't need to think they're going to get into Megan Foxes pants by hanging her poster on their wall, but it sure as hell is sexy that has her hanging there.you are saying that people are donating towards her because they are attracted to her, even tho they know that they would never get anything with her, which is categorically wrong. Even if there was the off chance a small group of people saw her and thought "shes attractive i want her to have money" the huge bulk of her donations come from her charismatic approach to oppression. Shes presenting them a flag holder that they can identify on, which wouldnt work with someone with a bad pull on people, but that doesnt mean that they want to fuck her either.Yeah I'm saying some people are donating to her because they think she's attractive (the bit about her finding and fucking them was a joke at the subconscious, I thought obviously) and further, that some people are only considering her points because of her gender and attractiveness, but either way I think it's a relatively huge factor for her. You are asserting that the bulk of her money came from people who agree with her points. I'm saying I'll bet a lot of them probably only listened to her and considered her points in the first place because of how she looks. Iced said, March 25, 2013, 08:11:29 pmIn your poster in the wall example she would more likely be a che guevara poster on the wall of a feminist than a sexy megan fox poster on the wall of a teenager. I doubt it, myself, but it could be a mix of both at best. QuoteYou can continue all you want, but i believe your case of "shes hot so shes geting money from people " is fundamentally flawed.First off, that's kinda her case as well with the video game women "they're all hot, half naked and in distress", on top of being 'in distress' herself, given the backlash she received for basically implying that games are misogynistic. Second off, it's neither 'categorically wrong' or 'fundamentally flawed', it's a well researched well established reality by those standards. Here's another article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect
her looks are comparatively a very small factor in the amount of money she got compared to A: being a feminist B: being someone that was on the receiving end of (mostly empty) death and rape threats. it's no secret that most people are likelier to take interest in something offered by a beautiful looking person, but this isn't the case. literally nobody is going OH SHE'S SO PRETTY I WANT TO donate a certain amount of money so she can research on the subject of females in videogames WHAT A FUCKING BABE
(oh god why am I agreeing with RMH)titlin, it's more like 'Oh, she's an attractive female, so she probably has experienced the problems females experience due to men being attracted to them and can voice some legitimate insight on the subject'.
QuoteDo you think the gamer demographic 'mostly males under 35' were $158,000 concerned with sexism in video games before some hottie brought it up that they could come to the aid of? I don't. You are the one making the assumption that male gamers are supporting her. Everything points to everything BUT that.Including her TED talk. You are being sexist in assuming that her "stereotypical" good looks are the blade in her fight.
Snakebyte said, March 25, 2013, 10:50:55 pmit's more like 'Oh, she's an attractive female, so she probably has experienced the problems females experience due to men being attracted to them and can voice some legitimate insight on the subject'.Which is still a lot more about the feminism topic than guys being attracted to her.
Snakebyte said, March 25, 2013, 10:50:55 pm(oh god why am I agreeing with RMH)titlin, it's more like 'Oh, she's an attractive female, so she probably has experienced the problems females experience due to men being attracted to them and can voice some legitimate insight on the subject'.feminists following a charismatic woman isnt the same thing as people only giving her money because she's hot. one implies that nothing she ever does will be valid unless she is ugly or something. its a hella sexist message.
But they are giving her money because she's hot.Because if she wasn't hot how the fuck would she know about being treated like a sex object and so forth.No one would take that seriously coming from an incredibly unattractive woman.
Thats a buttload of nonsense.They are not giving her money for being treated as a sex object. do you think that every feminist has lived through the whole set of experiences to be able to talk about it? Do you have to get raped to know rape is bad? Her points would be as valid or invalid coming from a hot woman or a ugly woman. It would need to be someone smart and charismatic to move people, but hot isnt a necessity when talking about sexism.Do you need to be a foreigner to be able to give a lecture on racism?
DKDC said, March 24, 2013, 07:12:08 pmIt would have failed if she had been a man, but it's not the reason it worked either.(or an ugly girl)
@Iced: Again, I'm saying concerning this forum (which is mostly gamers I can only assume) her support is probably concerned with her looks before her points are even considered (again if she were unattractive I'll bet this thread wouldn't have made it past page 3... I mean given the suggested sea of feminists who support her, how many others do you see having their points read on here. Interest in the point?), though they (her points) are what ends up being defended. I'm also saying that it's probably ironically true coming from the feminist camp as well, a lot of whom then probably got behind her the same way Billy and Jimmy Lee got on a mission when they saw their girlfriend getting punched then dragged away by the angry hoard in Double Dragon. Basically everything in terms of research points positively to her success being aided by her looks. Yeah I'm saying her looks are the edge of the blade, not the whole thing or the handle, but the part that made the necessary difference. @Titiln: I'm nitpickin for humor sake here, but if those threats had been 'mostly empty' awful things would have happened to here. 'Entirely empty' I think would be more appropriate. " it's no secret that most people are likelier to take interest in something offered by a beautiful looking person, but this isn't the case." ...uh huh... "literally nobody is going OH SHE'S SO PRETTY I WANT TO donate a certain amount of money so she can research on the subject of females in videogames WHAT A FUCKING BABE" well not out loud at least. @Snakebyte: How dare you agree with me
Yeah, Iced, I agree with you completely. It's not about the validity of her points, it's about whether or not people would accept their validity.In an ideal world it doesn't matter. Unfortunately this isn't an ideal world.RMH, I, I don't know, I feel dead inside.
Look, here's another way to see my point: "Anything that she is right about in calling a problem is pretty much working for her to get her where she is."
