YesNoOk
avatar

Hyper Dragon Ball Z: April 2014 initial release thread + discussion (Read 419133 times)

Started by Iced, April 05, 2014, 05:48:51 pm
Share this topic:
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#421  May 20, 2014, 10:21:12 pm
  • ******
  • Hedgehog Whisperer
  • Red Bull addict
    • Spain
    • xgargoyle.mgbr.net
Check your folder mugen/work/fight.

You'll have the icons used by Elecbyte as a reference for the different types of victory.
XGargoyle: Battle posing since 1979
http://xgargoyle.mgbr.net
http://www.pandorabots.com/pandora/talk?botid=e71c0d43fe35093a  <-- Please click that link
http://paypal.me/XGargoyle  <-- Donations welcome!
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#422  May 21, 2014, 02:32:21 am
  • ****
  • Coder and Voice Actor
    • USA
    • www.youtube.com/thisisgir
Is there anyway I could jump on as the voice actor for Goku?
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#423  May 21, 2014, 08:41:21 am
  • ******
    • Netherlands
    • network.mugenguild.com/balthazar/index.html
You're the sluttiest whore I've ever seen! Saying you're available at every oppertunity. Give it a rest, man :P
No, we're not looking for a Goku voice now.
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#424  May 21, 2014, 08:58:09 am
  • ****
  • Coder and Voice Actor
    • USA
    • www.youtube.com/thisisgir
I cant help it I'm bored and between work at the moment ! :bigcry:

But great project! Cant wait to see more!
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#425  May 21, 2014, 09:00:34 am
  • avatar
  • ******
  • Staying Alive
    • Panama
Chilling
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#426  May 23, 2014, 11:11:50 pm
  • avatar
  • **
  • Where's Gohan!
    • USA
    • E_Harrington19@hotmail.com
Not sure if this has been ever addressed but the Bicycle Kick on GokuZ2 seems to freeze MUGEN when it is activated at the simultaneously as another super pulled off by the opponent. This has happened to me twice. Once when the Ai activated the move at the same time as my Chou Kamehameha (GokuZ2) and again when I activated it to counter Vegeta's Aerial Galick Gun. Both times, it's been the LVL 1 version of the super.
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#427  May 24, 2014, 09:36:45 am
  • ******
    • Netherlands
    • network.mugenguild.com/balthazar/index.html
About it being adressed I can't remember either but it's at least known, that Bicycle Kick can be buggy at times. Then again it's been proven that many Super moves will cause weird things when activated at the same time.
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#428  May 24, 2014, 12:50:20 pm
  • ******
  • Limited time to use Infinite power !
    • France
    • network.mugenguild.com/cybaster/
I'm in the process of updating previous Z2 characters. The goal is to have everybody up-to-date to release Gohan as we update everybody, and have something consistent.
That being said, this means I'll probably ask several questions to them combo pros, in order to ensure I understood their feedback correctly. ^_^

@TGYMK:
Quote
All you have to do to nerf Vegeta dash HK is make it ONLY special cancelable (and then the other fix below). That way he can still use qcb/qcf+kick after it, which connects, and allows him to jump cancel that. qcb/qcf+kick will stop connecting after three loops, so the loop is in, but the infinite is out, and Vegeta keeps his pressure strings while making them less safe at the same time (qcb/qcf+kick on block is not safe depending on what you do with it).

The problem with this is Vegeta can still "infinite" if you dash HK, cancel into qcf+punch fireballs, then cancel that into qcb+punch ex fireballs (or qcf+punch EX, but with that you can't do dash HK in between) and repeat the juggle (this does like NO damage at all after a certain amount of loops, so you're basically wasting bar. It's still a very long loop though). Another way to counteract this part is to not have fireballs knock down (this is kinda ridiculous in the first place, fireballs that knock down).

I removed the ability to jump cancel if the opponent has blocked Sliding Kick.
However, what you're saying is I should completely remove the ability to jump cancel out of Sliding Kick even if the opponent was hit by it (in order to avoid the empty cancel bug), but in exchange make it special cancellable (even if P2 has blocked sliding kick ?) into :
- Ki Blast (qcf+P)
- Machine Gun Temper (qcb+P)
- Wolverine Flip forward/backward (qcf/qcb+K)

Did I get this right ?

And for the 2nd part, you're saying to put "air.fall=0" instead of =1 to all Ki Blast moves, which will hopefully not create other weird stuff later on ?
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#429  May 25, 2014, 01:10:24 am
  • avatar
  • **
  • Where's Gohan!
    • USA
    • E_Harrington19@hotmail.com
About it being addressed I can't remember either but it's at least known, that Bicycle Kick can be buggy at times. Then again it's been proven that many Super moves will cause weird things when activated at the same time.

Ok, at least it's not just me.

Also, I would suggest lowering the Attack Box on the first attack of Bicycle Kick. The move seems to whiff when used to counter an opponent's crouched or hunched over attack animation. This often happens vs. Deadpool's (authored by Infinite) Grenade Toss Attack as he is hunched over while tossing the grenade.
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#430  May 25, 2014, 05:40:52 am
  • avatar
  • *
    • USA
    • aaronbrown21229@gmail.com
I'm in the process of updating previous Z2 characters. The goal is to have everybody up-to-date to release Gohan as we update everybody, and have something consistent.
That being said, this means I'll probably ask several questions to them combo pros, in order to ensure I understood their feedback correctly. ^_^

I removed the ability to jump cancel if the opponent has blocked Sliding Kick.
However, what you're saying is I should completely remove the ability to jump cancel out of Sliding Kick even if the opponent was hit by it (in order to avoid the empty cancel bug), but in exchange make it special cancellable (even if P2 has blocked sliding kick ?) into :
- Ki Blast (qcf+P)
- Machine Gun Temper (qcb+P)
- Wolverine Flip forward/backward (qcf/qcb+K)


Did I get this right ?

And for the 2nd part, you're saying to put "air.fall=0" instead of =1 to all Ki Blast moves, which will hopefully not create other weird stuff later on ?

This is a good idea, but this actually hurts Vegeta's cool rush-pressure style quite a bit; which in light of the way other characters work (SSJGoku's teleports and warp kamehameha threat, Goku's bicycle kick threat), he only really seems to have qcb+fireballs in the air for any kind of truly unique rushdown (wolverine flip is reminiscent of the other chars' strings in some ways) once dash HK's cancelability on block is gone. This is a fine change, but personally, I would miss it.

Underlined:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

And I'm in no way a hivemind on this stuff, but I like to help out. Don't take what I'm saying as the "professional" way to go about it; this is just from my experience and knowledge on FGs in general. Vegeta is my favorite out of the demo three, because he's fast and his game is to pressure you over and over and not let you breathe, while Goku and SSJ Goku are all about threats and scaring you out of pressing buttons (or INTO pressing them), so this is how I would see him turning out if you wanted to fix him up.

And again, the only problem you're facing after all of this is done is the possibility that qcb+P into dash HK and repeat may still be an infinite juggle even without fireballs knocking down. Dash HK after qcb+P DOES take some time to activate though, so it just depends on how things go.

Hell, if you wanted to, you could just...only make it cancelable into Wolverine Flip. That'd be the end all fix right there, if you were to go along with the special cancelable idea. Then you'd be good, since Wolverine Flip is itself jump cancelable, and you retain all that pressure stuff I was talking about. Bam. You're set. No possible loops (there is one with dash HK into flip but it's only 3 times) or infinites at all.

I might've posted too much. Lol. Y'all can punch me for it later.
Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 06:15:11 am by TGYMK
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#431  May 25, 2014, 07:11:53 am
  • ***
    • xxlunytun3sxx@aim.com
Honestly, his air machine gun temper is enough pressure as it is. in a Z2 only setting(and even VS  other style chars)  he can bait alpha counters and not get hit by the attack, also its like an incredible frame trap and traps the opponent, specially in the corner. So IMO idk about avoiding loops and whatnot,but taking it out as a pressure tool (I.E Making it that you cant cancel it on block or any other way of making it no longer used for pressure) i feel, wouldnt even affect his pressure severely seeing how his air machine gun temper serves as a better pressure tool.
http://www.twitch.tv/zer0degr33z

I sometimes stream MUGEN. Join me!
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#432  May 25, 2014, 03:19:17 pm
  • avatar
  • *
    • USA
    • aaronbrown21229@gmail.com
Honestly, his air machine gun temper is enough pressure as it is. in a Z2 only setting(and even VS  other style chars)  he can bait alpha counters and not get hit by the attack, also its like an incredible frame trap and traps the opponent, specially in the corner. So IMO idk about avoiding loops and whatnot,but taking it out as a pressure tool (I.E Making it that you cant cancel it on block or any other way of making it no longer used for pressure) i feel, wouldnt even affect his pressure severely seeing how his air machine gun temper serves as a better pressure tool.

True. It's pretty good, but it doesn't serve to actually help him start his work. That's what I meant, not just keeping the other dude blocking/panicking. I can't see Vegeta having much TO do that with once dash HK is nerfed that way, myself. Other quick ways to get in besides airdash, like backdash HP are really risky/unsafe and get countered easily. Very ground-based tactics he has, which isn't a bad thing, but it can be depending on how it's implemented.

Try what you guys feel is right!
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#433  May 25, 2014, 07:01:58 pm
  • ***
    • xxlunytun3sxx@aim.com
Yea i get what you mean, but honestly its too braindead. Just being able to shoot 4 projectiles and do a safe dash HK into free pressure is too good of an approach, but at the same time, the Z2(With the exception of SSJGoku) chars dont really have much approaches besides air dash into attack. Its kind of a dilemma lol.
http://www.twitch.tv/zer0degr33z

I sometimes stream MUGEN. Join me!

ROS

Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#434  May 25, 2014, 07:45:46 pm
  • avatar
  • **
I'd rather you give Sliding Kick a juggle limit than not make it jump cancelable on hit. Most of his longer combos work because Sliding Kick isn't a move that affects the juggle limit at all.
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#435  May 25, 2014, 08:00:32 pm
  • ******
    • Netherlands
    • network.mugenguild.com/balthazar/index.html
Sliding Kick > jump cancel to air combo  is one of the first few core gameplay ideas I had for Vegeta Z2 so I'd be sad to see it go :( But, I'm always in favour of adding balance to the characters!
So actually a juggle limiter (1?) sounds good to me, you can still have your basic Sliding Kick > aircombo and it wouldn't change anything for noob to casual players (those combos involving multple Sliding Kicks are usually reserved for pro players anyway :P).
Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 08:06:04 pm by Balthazar
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#436  May 25, 2014, 09:18:13 pm
  • ***
    • xxlunytun3sxx@aim.com
Yea i love the sliding kick into air combos with Vegeta.
http://www.twitch.tv/zer0degr33z

I sometimes stream MUGEN. Join me!
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#437  May 25, 2014, 09:26:14 pm
  • ******
    • Netherlands
    • network.mugenguild.com/balthazar/index.html
Also, I would suggest lowering the Attack Box on the first attack of Bicycle Kick. The move seems to whiff when used to counter an opponent's crouched or hunched over attack animation. This often happens vs. Deadpool's (authored by Infinite) Grenade Toss Attack as he is hunched over while tossing the grenade.
By the way yeah, I agree with lowering the hitbox, it does whiff at times it shouldn't (like against crouching attacks you mentioned).
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#438  May 26, 2014, 12:30:35 am
  • avatar
  • *
    • USA
    • aaronbrown21229@gmail.com
Sounds like a good fix!

Has anyone tried using supers to bait counters (blockstring, then super when you think they'll counter)? I've had the idea in mind for a while but since it's something I probably can't do using P1 and P2 myself, maybe someone else has. Maybe the super buffers during, after, before...not sure.
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#439  May 26, 2014, 12:41:50 am
  • ******
  • Limited time to use Infinite power !
    • France
    • network.mugenguild.com/cybaster/
For now, I made the Sliding Kick cancellable into jump only on movehit, and not movecontact (which means it won't cancel if P2 blocks Sliding Kick).
And I also added juggle points to Sliding Kick instead of having it at zero (can't remember why it was like that LOL, probably to make some cool combos possible at the time...).
We'll see from there if people can still abuse it or if it makes Vegeta too weak, seeing the other fixes I've done.
Re: Hyper Dragon Ball Z
#440  May 27, 2014, 08:25:19 pm
  • ******
  • Limited time to use Infinite power !
    • France
    • network.mugenguild.com/cybaster/
Just passing by to say that bugs are being fixed, and sprites are being updated, so everybody has the same standard.
Progress is pretty good nowadays, and updated chars should be sent to a few people pretty soon, so they can break them again tell us if the balance fixes are good or not.