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Feedback to Warnings/Decisions (Read 854372 times)

Started by Iced, February 24, 2012, 09:43:26 pm
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Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#981  February 15, 2013, 08:18:03 am
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Devils advocate is necessary.
Exactly. Simply questioning something can lead to complete reexaminations of one's position. I've seen it happen and it's pretty dang useful for things like this.
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Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#982  February 15, 2013, 01:34:02 pm
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She doesn't even have a Contributor star. Dunno what you're talking about. ._.
Well, she had it some weeks (or months??) ago, recently I noticed she only has the blue star of mods :P

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Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#983  February 15, 2013, 08:10:08 pm
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Are stars that big of a deal?

I also believe where MissB comes from when she says the guild can be very vulgar and rude. You look back on users like Navana (who was annoying), I do remember users would go out of their way and stalk the him. They would even go as far as his Mugen Help threads, which was unrelated to the drama, and go ham. When I pointed this out, I was called a white knight, a trap lover, and a pedophile.

Navana was the worst but it still happens from time to time. The only thing that changed is the username, and these same people are going out of their way to follow their posts for a chance to make fun of them.
Now Im not saying these users did nothing to deserve it. All of them have done something to garner that negative attention. But where do you draw that line where enough is enough? If their the antagonist, why do users go out of your way to give them attention? Why can't you just be the bigger person and ignore them?
People want attention, why give them what they want?

I believe that that is what MissB is getting at.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#984  February 15, 2013, 08:20:20 pm
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Just so you know: Rajaa wasn't or never insulted you at all during all those arguments you immaturely ignored...

Hi. I'm here to tell you that you suck and you're useless.

No offense, of course. :)
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and people who will spit into the glass until that's fixed."
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#985  February 15, 2013, 08:28:01 pm
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People who disagree with you because they hold and present an opposing viewpoint are useful. People who disagree with you for the sake of disagreeing with you are useless noise.

All I've seen MissB do is slow down discussions without contributing anything of merit.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#986  February 15, 2013, 08:57:58 pm
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You don't ignore a complaint that is perfectly valid and touches a quite important subject just because you don't like the way it's worded as if you were the queen of England or a sleazy politician. If the problem is important, the packaging is irrelevant. Get the point, solve the problem.
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Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#987  February 15, 2013, 11:33:14 pm
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There are ways to express yourself clearly that don't involve sounding like a jerk. Yes, a complaint can be completely valid, even if it's written with ten million swearwords and another ten million insults about how someone is stupid and slack-jawed, but it's not going to make it any better received.

It's the principle of common decency and a vital part of knowing how to actually communicate with people instead of shouting at them all the time. The "packaging" is far from irrelevant.

That said, I see where Rajaa is coming from about some decisions being obfuscated sometimes, and I see where MissB is coming from with her concerns about rudeness, cliqueishness, etc. But if anyone is doing something that's counterproductive to the staff making decisions, then they should be called on it without being insulted. Not that difficult to do.
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Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 11:40:19 pm by Zero-Mariah
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#988  February 15, 2013, 11:47:19 pm
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There are ways to express yourself clearly that don't involve sounding like a jerk. Yes, a complaint can be completely valid, even if it's written with ten million swearwords and another ten million insults about how someone is stupid and slack-jawed, but it's not going to make it any better received.

It's the principle of common decency and a vital part of knowing how to actually communicate with people instead of shouting at them all the time. The "packaging" is far from irrelevant.
Yeah cool that changes nothing. We're not discussing Rajaa's attitude, we're discussing MBH's. Arguing about the way Rajaa said it is nothing more than arguing in circle about nothing while discarding the actual concern, which is what I was just saying when you went back to how it was said.

Oh by the way, there are tons of people who know how to play devil's advocate and point out things most of the others on the staff miss.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#989  February 16, 2013, 12:23:12 am
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Someone please point out the insults in my posts. I'll make it easy:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Was it because I said she's being annoying and obnoxious? Well, I could have called her a bunch of other words, but those are the words that describe her behavior. Was it because I said I don't see any point in her being here? Well, how else is that supposed to be said? My intent wasn't to be insulting, it was to respectfully tell her that she's being annoying and obnoxious -- and she proved it by ignoring my posts and telling me I'm being immature and personally insulting her. There's a difference between a personal insult and a discussion about personal behavior.

The fact is that she completely blew off even my first post which was simply explaining to her that we're not becoming mean and we don't need someone to just oppose for the sake of opposing.

A devil advocate may be necessary, but MBH is not a devil's advocate, she's just an advocate of opposition for the sake of opposition.

Nobody cares how many forums you moderate or have moderated in the past. I moderate people in real life in a more serious manner, what does that have to with your behavior on this site? Nothing.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#990  February 16, 2013, 12:30:08 am
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I see where MissB is coming from with her concerns about rudeness, cliqueishness, etc.

This is what seems to happen.

- MissB makes an unsubstantiated claim about 'rudeness, cliqueishness, etc.'
- The claim is refuted, and MissB is asked to substantiate it.
- MissB ignores the post because of 'bullying'.

All this does is make her seem aloof and superior without having anything of actual substance to say, and allow her to avoid response whenever she's called out on it. It's empty and accomplishes nothing.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#991  February 16, 2013, 12:55:42 am
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I can't say much about MissB but I can share some views from what I've seen.

- I really think she is trying to make herself more Superior than she is with always neglecting bans (Even when they're for really good reasons)
- Never seems to contribute or barely post outside of the "All that's left" section, might say "Nice char +1" at rare occasions.
- Is really Ignorant when it comes to stuff like this, it's sometimes nice to be different but not in this case!
- I recall her being somewhat of a "Troll" back when she was a regular user on here and an Admin/Whatever on Mugen Infantry and from what I saw, she liked to annoy people.
- Animal Fetish

Most of those points are from what other people have mentioned but it shouldn't hurt to say them again.

I really hope MissB considers changing a little, if not. Then I think she should be removed from the Moderator team and let someone more Contributing and less softhearted on there instead.

Well, she had it some weeks (or months??) ago, recently I noticed she only has the blue star of mods :P
In all my years here, I have never seen MissB with a Contributor Star, heck I don't even know why I have one.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#992  February 16, 2013, 01:09:33 am
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Wait, hold on, since when did a contributor star become a requirement for moderator status?

From the Warnings thread:

Iced said:
Someone not making stuff for mugen doesnt mean they are "useless" or "worthless". Sepp, valodim,titiln,  even oz or person man are good examples of people that either gave up on mugen fast, or never "Made" stuff for mugen. That didnt made them any less of staff members whose opinions should be taken in consideration.
Millie, "Ozy and Millie" said:
"I think there are really three types of people: "Glass is half-full" sorts of people, "Glass is half-empty" sorts of people,
and people who will spit into the glass until that's fixed."
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#993  February 16, 2013, 01:16:36 am
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It's not a requirement. My comments about her contributions to Mugen were coupled with my comments about her contributions to this forum to ask her what reason she had in being here in the first place if she's not interested in Mugen and only wants to stir up arguments about staff decisions.

I don't know why Basara brought up stars.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#994  February 16, 2013, 01:31:04 am
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So what you guys are saying is that MissB's claims have no merit. You're suggesting that there is never a clique behavior, where members of this forum gang up on someone who, say, doesn't listen to their feedback for releases. Or breaks either an unwritten rule or says something dumb a few times. No one has ever been driven out of this forum by a mob mentality. There aren't people on this forum, hell on this staff even, that provoke people either at the start of an argument or after one has died down into an completely unnecessary fight and it hasn't even been happening recently. Either you're suggesting that this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't need to be addressed, and in any case I'd disagree with the whole lot of you.

Rajaa, are you saying that MissB HASN'T contributed anything as a member of the staff? That she doesn't give her opinion, especially when it comes to trying to set a standard procedure set up for banning people? Or maybe you don't think her ideas seem reasonable in any way and they're not worth listening to? And do you think a majority of the staff feel that way? I know how I feel about it. Everything she has brought up, even when I disagree with her, has been worth discussing even for a tiny bit. Even with HJK it's worth questioning, though I agree with what happened in the end to him. In the end you've suggested the harm that she's done, as a member of the staff, is waste time discussing whether or not people should be banned instead of acting first and asking questions later. Her crime is 'wasting time'. I think it's important to everyone on this forum that we spend at least some time discussing long term or permanent actions by any member of our staff. Hell how long did we spend discussing what is or isn't porn in comparison to HJK's ban? Did MissB really cause any of us any harm with that, other than you who will not drop this subject at all?

This is ridiculous. Compared to some of the complaints on our staff for things that really have harmed the forum, including for example what I did to Shamrock, MissB 'crimes' of 'wasting time' are negligible.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#995  February 16, 2013, 01:33:17 am
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No, I'm pretty sure the claim was that this behaviour has decreased, rather than increased, over time, and that the forum is in a much better state than it had been in the past. Let's avoid straw men here.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#996  February 16, 2013, 01:36:05 am
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That's good that it's decreased. It doesn't mean that it doesn't still happen, and it doesn't hurt to suggest ways to curve it from happening in the future. Unless you're suggesting that it does hurt to do that.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#997  February 16, 2013, 01:38:19 am
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No, not at all. What I'm trying to say is that MissB claimed that it was recent/increasing/a new problem, and that was what people have rebutted, so your exaggerated sarcastic statement about that never ever possibly happening is unnecessary and missing the point.

No one's denying that some people are dicks. People are denying that we're suddenly more dickish than ever before and that the forum is headed in a bad direction.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#998  February 16, 2013, 01:39:20 am
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It's not a requirement. My comments about her contributions to Mugen were coupled with my comments about her contributions to this forum to ask her what reason she had in being here in the first place if she's not interested in Mugen and only wants to stir up arguments about staff decisions.

I don't know why Basara brought up stars.
Well the fact that I just quoted a piece of a post that was indeed directed at you, and the fact that I felt the need to show this just goes to show you that maybe the things you're saying are not properly elaborated by you, simply because they come off as something else.

I mean no offense by this, but shit...

Someone please point out the insults in my posts.
Rajaa said:
That's not the reason she's useless. She's useless because...
Rajaa said:
I wasn't belittling her

...in what parallel universe is saying someone is useless at something, in real life, in a forum or anywhere else, not to be considered belittling? That's like telling someone they suck straight in their face and expecting a handshake in return.

I'm not saying it was your intention to do so, I'm just saying it's pretty silly not to expect reactions like the ones she had. Such as ignoring.
Millie, "Ozy and Millie" said:
"I think there are really three types of people: "Glass is half-full" sorts of people, "Glass is half-empty" sorts of people,
and people who will spit into the glass until that's fixed."
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#999  February 16, 2013, 01:43:27 am
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...in what parallel universe is saying someone is useless at something, in real life, in a forum or anywhere else, not to be considered belittling?

When it's true, and a problem that needs to be addressed. If someone at my job told me I was useless, and they had a good enough argument to express that it was true, I wouldn't hide and ignore it, I'd do something about it.

Statements of fact are never insults. If those are not statements of fact, the appropriate response is to contest them.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1000  February 16, 2013, 01:43:44 am
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No, not at all. What I'm trying to say is that MissB claimed that it was recent/increasing/a new problem, and that was what people have rebutted, so your exaggerated sarcastic statement about that never ever possibly happening is unnecessary and missing the point.

No one's denying that some people are dicks. People are denying that we're suddenly more dickish than ever before and that the forum is headed in a bad direction.

When she's brought this up, including recently and in the past, there's always a string of behavior to go along with it. Not just isolated incidents. Yes, the forum is a better place than it was several years ago. Also, there are times where over the span of a few weeks or months it seems like things are getting worse again because of several instances. I think it's fair to bring up when that is happening, try to find out what's causing it, and discourage it in the future. This includes very recently where because it was brought up we've agreed to deal with several situations in a different manner from now on. Which means it was useful to bring it up.
Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 01:48:59 am by Caddie