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Feedback to Warnings/Decisions (Read 865299 times)

Started by Iced, February 24, 2012, 09:43:26 pm
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Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1221  May 20, 2013, 04:44:36 pm
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Sean didn't come after Zeroz, and you're acting like he did. Sure he overreacted (and even then that's debatable because everyone knows where Zeroz was going ANYWAY), and he needs to learn to keep his calm because he too should know what's going to happen. But you can't say "he should know better", because, hell, YOU should know better. To begin with, the only reason Sean got mad is that you guys let Zeroz come back and stalk Sean some more. You say "just report it" but why would he do that if you keep letting Zeroz go ? That just makes it your fault.
there is also he posibility of sean reporting and mbh just going "oh, so if you are calm enough to report/ignore it I guess I don't need to take action".
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1222  May 20, 2013, 05:11:30 pm
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i was gonna say something on the subject but it was pretty much
You're getting it all wrong. You're acting like Zeroz came back and stayed out of trouble and is still getting insulted and punished for something he did in the past. You know he didn't stay out of trouble, and he's getting punished for something he did right now.
You did something, you got banned for it, and then you come back and do the same, this is the situation that's going on here. This isn't "he did something bad in the past, got punished, came back, now a while later he's doing another thing that's also bad or he's getting insulted for something that's in the past". No, it's "he did something bad, got banned, came back and DID IT AGAIN, and he's getting insulted for that". There is exactly a need to look into his post history, to know that it's the same thing and he's not learning.
When Zeroz was going after Sean the last three times, he got banned for a short time and it was like "let's just hope he doesn't do that again, if he does he gets banned some more". Guess what, he did do it again.
When you're letting Zeroz come within 20 feet of Sean, you already know what's going to happen, you know how bad it was the last few times (it wasn't just random insults, Zeroz literally stalked him and mocked him in his profile and everything). You know this guy is going to provoke that guy one way or another, and that guy will react badly to it. And when it does actually happen, that makes it your fault, because you knew it, you could have prevented it, and you did nothing.

Sean didn't come after Zeroz, and you're acting like he did. Sure he overreacted (and even then that's debatable because everyone knows where Zeroz was going ANYWAY), and he needs to learn to keep his calm because he too should know what's going to happen. But you can't say "he should know better", because, hell, YOU should know better. To begin with, the only reason Sean got mad is that you guys let Zeroz come back and stalk Sean some more. You say "just report it" but why would he do that if you keep letting Zeroz go ? That just makes it your fault.
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Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1223  May 20, 2013, 07:35:04 pm
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Sean didn't come after Zeroz, and you're acting like he did. Sure he overreacted (and even then that's debatable because everyone knows where Zeroz was going ANYWAY), and he needs to learn to keep his calm because he too should know what's going to happen. But you can't say "he should know better", because, hell, YOU should know better. To begin with, the only reason Sean got mad is that you guys let Zeroz come back and stalk Sean some more. You say "just report it" but why would he do that if you keep letting Zeroz go ? That just makes it your fault.

I Haven't said "he should know better"  that was Rajaa.  Nor have I suggested Zeroz get a slap on the wrist (3 day ban) that was jmorph.   I'm suggesting Sean get a verbal warning, others are calling for him to get banned.  Caddie was the one analyzing  the posts (at  Sean's request) that showed Sean losing his cool and so on.  Maybe you better take all that up with them.

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1224  May 20, 2013, 07:45:04 pm
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I was responding to your comment that Zeroz's post history shouldn't be looked into when deciding whether Sean had a right to lash out and insult him. You said that because you acted like Sean came after Zeroz out of nowhere. I'm explaining that there was a reason he did that, everyone saw his reaction coming and everyone knew what direction Zeroz was heading to. I'm also including your earlier attitude that Sean should have just reported Zeroz. The whole of my post was a summary of the entire situation, and yes, it included things that you yourself didn't say, but that were just as important. Don't go and deflect those parts like "oh I'm not the one who said this bit and that bit" because it's not the point.
The point is that the handling of this whole thing was terrible, that it started with you and then Caddie, that it's just plain stupid that you guys are even considering punishing Sean for this crap, and that you yourself have almost been actively protecting Zeroz, acting like he didn't do shit and he didn't deserve to be yelled at because we shouldn't look into his post history and it shouldn't excuse Sean's behavior. And quite frankly that's just fucking terrible.
Should Sean watch his temper, yes. Do we know that's not happening, yes. Do we know Zeroz shouldn't have been allowed there in the first place because we already knew what he was going to do, hell yes.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 07:49:19 pm by DKDC
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1225  May 20, 2013, 07:51:04 pm
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maybe shes putting personal feelings into this she did after all KNOW zeroz from infantry? if thats the case that is in no way shape or form something a mod should do.

idk for sure if she is or not just putting that out there.

You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?

Mog

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1226  May 20, 2013, 08:08:21 pm
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maybe shes putting personal feelings into this she did after all KNOW zeroz from infantry? if thats the case that is in no way shape or form something a mod should do.

idk for sure if she is or not just putting that out there.


 I am putting personal feelings into this.  I think he's a detestable wannabe troll that I've had major issues with elsewhere.  If it were any other two people, I'd probably say what one got as ban, they should both get.  I sure wouldnt be "voting" for a 3 month ban and may change my vote to 6.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1227  May 20, 2013, 08:32:55 pm
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You're getting it all wrong. You're acting like Zeroz came back and stayed out of trouble and is still getting insulted and punished for something he did in the past. You know he didn't stay out of trouble, and he's getting punished for something he did right now.
You did something, you got banned for it, and then you come back and do the same, this is the situation that's going on here. This isn't "he did something bad in the past, got punished, came back, now a while later he's doing another thing that's also bad or he's getting insulted for something that's in the past". No, it's "he did something bad, got banned, came back and DID IT AGAIN, and he's getting insulted for that". There is exactly a need to look into his post history, to know that it's the same thing and he's not learning.
When Zeroz was going after Sean the last three times, he got banned for a short time and it was like "let's just hope he doesn't do that again, if he does he gets banned some more". Guess what, he did do it again.
When you're letting Zeroz come within 20 feet of Sean, you already know what's going to happen, you know how bad it was the last few times (it wasn't just random insults, Zeroz literally stalked him and mocked him in his profile and everything). You know this guy is going to provoke that guy one way or another, and that guy will react badly to it. And when it does actually happen, that makes it your fault, because you knew it, you could have prevented it, and you did nothing.

Sean didn't come after Zeroz, and you're acting like he did. Sure he overreacted (and even then that's debatable because everyone knows where Zeroz was going ANYWAY), and he needs to learn to keep his calm because he too should know what's going to happen. But you can't say "he should know better", because, hell, YOU should know better. To begin with, the only reason Sean got mad is that you guys let Zeroz come back and stalk Sean some more. You say "just report it" but why would he do that if you keep letting Zeroz go ? That just makes it your fault.

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that it's just plain stupid that you guys are even considering punishing Sean for this crap, and that you yourself have almost been actively protecting Zeroz

But Zeroz was staying out of trouble. And Sean did come after Zeroz. Sean started insulting Zeroz because Zeroz said negative things about John Cena, which Sean took as a personal offense. You are completely wrong about the order of events and what happened. :-\ It took Sean calling Zeroz an asshole and a dickhead before Zeroz made a personal attack on Sean back. And that was after a huge list of other personal attacks that Sean was throwing at Zeroz.

http://mugenguild.com/forum/msg.1767009
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1228  May 20, 2013, 08:55:52 pm
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I saw your summary and I already know you're missing the point.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1229  May 20, 2013, 08:56:54 pm
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But what you're saying happened didn't happen the way you said it happened...
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1230  May 20, 2013, 09:03:01 pm
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Except maybe the part where everyone knew where Zeroz was headed no matter what and we all knew from past events that why the hell are you even letting Zeroz get within 20 feet of Sean and why is he still around at all and if you haven't done anything up to now why would you expect Sean to bother with the report section and in what magical land did you just expect Sean to keep calm after everything that's happened. I read your summary, did you read mine at all ? What part of my post didn't happen ? The part where Zeroz did the same thing 3 times and was let go with a slap on the wrist ? The part where everyone knew what he was looking for anyway ? The part where everyone knew Sean would blow up like that anyway ? The part where you wouldn't have done anything anyway ? The part where everyone knew it and no one bothered to do anything before it ? The part where you're blaming Sean for something you knew would happen and did nothing ?
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 09:08:28 pm by DKDC
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1231  May 20, 2013, 09:09:06 pm
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He didn't "head there" though. What you're saying is basically "Zeroz should know better than to say negative things about John Cena because he knows that really ticks SeanAltly off". That's crazy. Once again, Zeroz was not saying anything negative to SeanAltly. He was not addressing SeanAltly at all. He was making posts about why he dislikes a wrestling character in the wrestling thread. Sean started it with him and said "I just can't keep ignoring this idiot saying those things when he doesn't know what he's talking about!" and started the insults. And Zeroz stayed away from fighting back with him, but Sean persisted. How are you not seeing that as what happened? I showed that's exactly what happened.

You're either saying that Zeroz shouldn't be allowed to reply to SeanAltly, which he didn't because Sean was the one that replied to one of his posts to start this(something he did several times), or that Zeroz shouldn't be allowed to either post in the wrestling thread or talk about John Cena, both are things I disagree with and would think would be ridiculous if someone suggested it. If that's not what you're saying, what are you saying?

Edit: Oh, if what you're saying was he should have been banned already then I don't know, maybe. He wasn't though and he didn't provoke Sean in any other way than saying bad things about John Cena that Sean didn't think was true. Maybe we could have stopped it earlier.
Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 09:16:05 pm by Caddie
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1232  May 20, 2013, 09:15:27 pm
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Maybe you haven't paid any attention to the various past stuff that happened between those two and how they always started out and how Zeroz posed as a victim each time and yet everyone saw through him. You don't see it here because Sean went nuts faster, but again, he was doing the same thing as he has done 3 times in the past. It always went the same way, it always ended the same way, with everyone clearly aware that Zeroz WAS looking for it all along. He starts with something small, and HE escalates by calling Sean out on whatever. Sean simply broke out faster this time, and you're dumping it on him for it. Zeroz was banned 3 times for doing that. You say that in this case, Zeroz was staying out of it, have you never seen a troll in action or something ??
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1233  May 20, 2013, 09:25:24 pm
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I did pay attention and I'm tried of people suggesting that I don't know their past. Yes, I was there for all the bans in the past. I saw the profile. I'm not seeing Zeroz as a victim, I'm seeing Sean as the provocateur. Which he was unless you seriously think John Cena bashing is grounds for what happened. Zeroz really didn't fight back. Yeah you can say "that's just how he trolls" but it still was what happened. Zeroz was banned 3 times for how far he went when fighting with Sean, he wasn't banned 3 times for attacking John Cena. That's all he was doing until Sean started it with him.

Btw Sean I wanna make it clear that what Zeroz said about you being a moocher or talentless or whatever was completely baseless and of course not true. You're a very talented contributor to both this site and Mugen in general and I'm sorry if you got the impression that just because I believe you were responsible for this mess taking place that any of that crap is true. It's not.
Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 09:28:25 pm by Caddie
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1234  May 20, 2013, 09:29:38 pm
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So how come you're the only one who's not seeing that this is what Zeroz was going for anyway ? Again, he did the exact same thing in the past, start with something small and seemingly unrelated, and then escalate and specifically call out Sean on something. This time it was John Cena, last time it was something else, the time before that it was something else again. John Cena, Sean's own wrestling, Sean's detailed knowledge of wrestlers, what have you. The only thing that changed this time is that Sean snapped right from the start, because he, like everyone else, knew what Zeroz was going to do anyway. Your claim that Zeroz wasn't doing anything THIS time and didn't respond is exactly the kind of things he wants.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1235  May 20, 2013, 09:44:49 pm
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So how come you're the only one who's not seeing that this is what Zeroz was going for anyway ?

I'm not the only one that thinks the way I do about what happened, check the shit thread. You are in the minority on this one.

Again, he did the exact same thing in the past, start with something small and seemingly unrelated, and then escalate and specifically call out Sean on something. This time it was John Cena, last time it was something else, the time before that it was something else again. John Cena, Sean's own wrestling, Sean's detailed knowledge of wrestlers, what have you. The only thing that changed this time is that Sean snapped right from the start, because he, like everyone else, knew what Zeroz was going to do anyway. Your claim that Zeroz wasn't doing anything THIS time and didn't respond is exactly the kind of things he wants.

But that's not what happened. Sean escalated it, and Sean called out Zeroz on "being an idiot who doesn't know anything". What literally started this was this post:

I don't have to be a Dirt Sheet reading smark to know that Cena does pull strings backstage, Ryback was feuding with a rising team, and what a coincidence that Cena magically got involved with this feud when it was originally for Ryback, They destroyed Ryback, this monster machine, but all of a sudden they couldn't get the job done last night?

That Belt has no Value anymore, Punk did nothing for it, he could reign for two straight years and it still wouldn't matter because they paid more attention to Cena more than anything...the only time they let his reign shine was when he was feuding with The Rock.

They did turn Ryback heel to keep him down, they didn't want him to be more over than Cena, since he's getting more boos than ever. They could of gone the Tweener route, but nah, let's put Ryback's year plus push to rest instead so Cena can continue to pretend that people like him now that he won the belt from Dwayne. 

      Posted: May 14, 2013, 09:38:32 pm
P.S Download the WWE APP.

Do you see anything in there that justifies Sean starting the fight by replying like this:

All of the shit you spew is crazy, baseless accusations from someone who hates Cena just as blindly as kids love him. Be sure to kick back and call me a butthurt fanboy or some shit, too, even though I agreed that Cena's booked too strong and he doesn't need the title. I guess you can't not like Cena's booking without also thinking he's an evil, selfish backstage politician. I just get tired of all the pessimistic whining and bullshit where there should be reasonable discussion of something we all claim to be fans of. I'm apparently just not going to get that here.

Please tell me, are what you suggesting is that Zeroz should not have either 1. been allowed to post in the wrestling thread or 2. make that post about Cena?

And if you're thinking Zeroz should have been banned in the first place, please say that. That's way more reasonable than either of those.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1236  May 20, 2013, 09:51:56 pm
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Zeroz should have been banned in the first place. Not just because of what he did in the past, but because we knew what he was going to do. This includes get anywhere close to Sean and start shit talking about stuff that WILL get Sean to respond.
Sean responded with what you quote BECAUSE he already knew where Zeroz was headed. It's not a single occurrence of something new as you see it, it's a continuation of everything before that. Sean isn't just going to a random guy with his own opinion about Cena and just starting to trash talk him out for having his different opinion about Cena, Sean is saying that Zeroz is always doing that and this is one more example of it. The "all the shit you spew is crazy" is not referring to this one happenstance, it's referring to everything Zeroz has done in the past. Have you seen Sean go up to someone ELSE with a different opinion and say "you spew crazy shit" ? Because even though I never touch the wrestling thread, I'm pretty sure I saw Sean defend himself by listing all the times he was capable of talking with someone with a different opinion. Which shows that Zeroz is the exception. And we know why, and we saw it coming.
Sean did not start anything. You can quote that topic all you want, you can quote him throwing the first insults in this particular discussion all you want, you have to stop seeing it as one single event and understand that this is the whole package of everything that happened before. Sean didn't throw the first insult because it didn't start just on Tuesday, it started all the way back.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1237  May 20, 2013, 10:14:16 pm
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I understand feeling that way but you're saying here that SeanAltly was justified in a preemptive strike because he thought Zeroz wrestling posts was going to lead to a personal attack on him because SeanAltly is a fan of a wrestler that Zeroz hates.

Also, Zeroz didn't even go there 'this time'. He even started talking about something else with a different user about a different wrestling company, having not insulted Sean or even continuing about his dislike for that wrestler, until SeanAltly persisted. It wasn't going to go there. The topic was changed. Until Sean insisted on bringing it back. I get your claim that this was all part of some kind of master plan but it really doesn't look that way to me. If Sean would have left it alone, it would have stopped with Sean having called Zeroz a know nothing idiot several times and Zeroz having barely even said anything back. Especially nothing insulting.

This whole thing is ridiculous. It really is.

Sean did not start anything. You can quote that topic all you want, you can quote him throwing the first insults in this particular discussion all you want, you have to stop seeing it as one single event and understand that this is the whole package of everything that happened before. Sean didn't throw the first insult because it didn't start just on Tuesday, it started all the way back.

Ridiculous. That's just not true. Sean factually started this argument. Them having disagreements in the past over wrestling before does not mean that Sean didn't throw the first(couple of) punch(es) in this fight.

What you're saying is the same as someone just randomly insulting someone out of nowhere and justifying it as "well he was banned in the past for fighting with me so I can insult him all I want! I didn't start it!" No. Not how things work.

Sean's a great asset to this forum and I like him for that. Zeroz has crossed the line several times with his behavior and is always walking a thin line because of that. That does not exempt Sean from being the catalyst in this, something that I feel like I've proven and saying "no but the past" isn't going to change that. Your suggestions are that Sean is not responsible at all for his behavior, or that it is completely excusable, or hell maybe you think he didn't do anything wrong. I disagree with you and I think we've debated this to a dead-end in that regard.

You say that I should look at the whole picture, what I suggest to you and to anyone who is looking at it like that is to at least try and think smaller and consider it as an isolated incident for a change and ask yourselves these questions: Who was the catalyst, who continued to persist with it, how could this have easily have been avoided, who was trying to prevent it from continuing but the other party would have no part in that, and how many posts contained personal insults on each side?

By the way, I could have handled this better. I'm not even confident that these posts are the best way for me to continue to be handling the situation.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1238  May 20, 2013, 10:22:15 pm
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I'm really glad someone is bringing this up. The argument that happened over the last few days absolutely was an extension of every argument we've had before, and I was still admittedly bitter that so little was done about Zeroz in the past that I flew off the handle and let him have it. Despite the tone of shock and surprise in some of my recent posts, I kind of knew I'd be painted as the bad guy this time, I just didn't care because I knew that if nothing was going to be done about Zeroz, I was going to get my shots in. Simple as that. I threw the first insult this time, but it was because I know Zeroz and I know his MO.

Also, I see that the topic having changed to TNA for 12 hours is still being used in this discussion but everyone seems to ignore the fact I made this post:

Are you done playing the victim card? I wanna bitch and moan about the evil John Cena without anyone proving me wrong or expecting me to back up my stupid, baseless claims.

Yeah, sure, have at it.

@GLB

All of what you said is true. I wish I had a little more self control. I wish assholes didn't know to push my buttons so well. You see the post he made right after yours. He isn't interested in doing anything but whining about Cena and being a general dickhead. I just have a hard time ignoring people like him.

In this post I admitted I lost control and that Zeroz knew how to push my buttons, which is what he was doing. I told Zeroz he could go back to doing his thing and had no intention of continuing this argument. Then almost three days later, Zeroz posted his response. How is that not way worse than my 12 hour gap where I responded to Zeroz? Because someone made a few posts about TNA during that?

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Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1239  May 20, 2013, 10:29:34 pm
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Ridiculous. That's just not true. Sean factually started this argument.
Okay now there's a limit to how fucking dense you can be.
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What you're saying is the same as someone just randomly insulting someone out of nowhere and justifying it as "well he was banned in the past for fighting with me so I can insult him all I want! I didn't start it!" No. Not how things work.
MBH was making the same argument earlier and we already went over that. This is exactly how it fucking works, and no one EVER SAID "he did something bad in the past, that means I can insult him freely". Stop fucking saying that. He's getting insulted BECAUSE HE'S DOING THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING AS BEFORE.

This argument wasn't something that started just here. This argument is the same as everything that came before. It's not something new, it's a continuation of everything.

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hat I suggest to you and to anyone who is looking at it like that is to at least try and think smaller and consider it as an isolated incident for a change
How about no and stop fucking saying that. There's literally no justification to seeing this as an isolated incident. Just telling everyone else to disregard everything that happened in the past is what's ridiculous. This is happening BECAUSE of how it went in the past, you can't just throw away the reason this is happening and then claim "look, this is happening without a reason, so he's the one who started it".
And stop claiming that Zeroz was trying to get away from it. Again, have you never seen a troll ? Because it sure fucking looks like you have no idea how people like him act, even though he acted the exact same way in the past and you claim to have seen him do it.

I also think that this is getting ridiculous, and you are getting really fucking dense. That's all there is to it. There's no way you can convince me otherwise, and this isn't going to move any further.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 10:33:58 pm by DKDC
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1240  May 20, 2013, 10:43:31 pm
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In this post I admitted I lost control and that Zeroz knew how to push my buttons, which is what he was doing. I told Zeroz he could go back to doing his thing and had no intention of continuing this argument. Then almost three days later, Zeroz posted his response. How is that not way worse than my 12 hour gap where I responded to Zeroz? Because someone made a few posts about TNA during that?
I'm glad you brought that up. Here's why. You made your post, the one that was 12 hours after the subject change, responding to Zeroz for saying this:

Then stop responding, You're not going to change my views on John Cena, I hate him and will continue to do so until he has the balls to tweak his character..or just go away forever.

Still Main eventing - Check
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Buries Ryback - Find out this Sunday at Extreme Rules!
Ruined CM Punk's Title Reign - Check
Ruined The Shield - Check

You replied to that after him and other users began talking about a TNA. The post that he didn't respond to for 3 days was this:

Are you done playing the victim card? I wanna bitch and moan about the evil John Cena without anyone proving me wrong or expecting me to back up my stupid, baseless claims.

Yeah, sure, have at it.

@GLB

All of what you said is true. I wish I had a little more self control. I wish assholes didn't know to push my buttons so well. You see the post he made right after yours. He isn't interested in doing anything but whining about Cena and being a general dickhead. I just have a hard time ignoring people like him.

Where you called him an asshole and a dickhead and changed his quote to say that he bitches and moans and what he says is stupid and baseless. The subject had not changed, that post was the last post in the thread before he replied to you two days later. That's why what you did was worse.

In my opinion.

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This is happening BECAUSE of how it went in the past, you can't just throw away the reason this is happening and then claim "look, this is happening without a reason, so he's the one who started it".

No, this is the justification that you're giving SeanAltly for insulting Zeroz. Yes, it's why SeanAltly did it. It's not why it happened, it's not what actually happened. I'm tired of going over what happened because you're plugging your ears.

So yeah you and I are never going to agree on this Byakko. At least we understand eachother, I hope. Unlike you though, I don't think you're dense. I just think you have a different opinion on what happened. That you're making a lot of assumptions and drawing a bunch of conclusions without looking at what happened. Like you wanted to take a side(SeanAltly) and place blame(Zeroz) without actually caring about what went down. And you have a good reason doing that, btw. If I wasn't trying to look at this objectively I would feel the same way as you and Zeroz would probably have gotten a permanent ban and SeanAltly wouldn't have gotten any kind of talking to about this.

Edit: Removed a dumb edit, I apologize for it's contents. I don't stand by what I said.
Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 10:46:32 pm by Caddie