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Last Bout: Styles Will Clash (Updated w/New patch 3/21/2022) (Read 85949 times)

Started by Sean Altly, February 23, 2022, 06:27:06 am
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Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#21  February 23, 2022, 08:51:11 pm
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Oh wow, thanks for the feedback PotS! My response in bold:

Looks like one of the best things to come out of the Mugen engine. Congratulations. :thumbsup:

Stuff:

General:
- Would be nice to have infinite meters in Training mode (other than the bug mentioned) Is there a way to detect Training Mode in Mugen? I think I Googled this once and forgot
- Clash Scramble is stronger than Clash Counter IMO, so maybe their costs could be reversed I will look into this, it seemed like the one that did damage would be better but I gues sthe scramble is more useful and can be used for combos
- Characters stay too long on the ground after falling (liedown time). Especially after a crumple. I think you should lose Mugen's way of handling that and use your own I will look into some options for this
- The powerbars could use more visual indication that they are full Great point, I will add some sort of indicator
- Unless I'm missing something, Crush Drive is going to be a problem, I think. It's not only unblockable but also guarantees a combo if the opponent tries to block it. In a game without rolling, parry, etc I guess my thought process here was that the moves are slow and telegraphed by the flash so they're easily interrupted, but if it looks like they'll be too much of an issue I can change it. I may add a roll or spot dodge mechanic in the future as well
- The screenpack is sick. Congratulations to Mordecool too He's the man and I really think commissioning him for this made all the difference
- Title screen F1 menu is behind the logo. Very, very minor issue

Bryce:
- Pushups don't stop automatically like the manual says. I kind of like that, so maybe it's the manual that needs fixing ;P I shall change the manual, and add a note that in order to stop doing pushups you have to press Taunt again
- I like that he has a hop kick that hits low just for how unusual that is Thanks, this was actually added because I sprited his first LK and didn't realize until afterwards how stubby and useless it was, so this was a way of repurposing those sprites
- London Fire is basically invisible in the Dojo stage You're right, I will either add some sort of indicator or something the stage floor to fix this
- Tower of London, being the defensive super, should probably have more invincibility than The Great Fire. This might apply to more characters I'm realizing now that I forgot to put invincibility on a lot of supers, so now I'm rechecking all of them

Tristan:
- You should specify in the manual that to do the M.G.K. followups you have to hold forward Whoops!
- The Rising Son has a frame of vulnerability at the start that looks unintentional I looked at the code and I did indeed do this on purpose but I am not sure why, lol. I just changed it though

Sasuke:
- I expected the Japan representative to be a ninja, or karate or whatever, but you made it a wrestler. For that you win again. Just wanted to say that, because I haven't tested him yet Thanks! Most of these characters are supposed to be "styles clash" characters, like the Indian character being a woman who does Jeet Kune Do, the English wrestler being a TKD practitioner, a Norwegian boxing preist, etc. The only traditional character types I went with were Russian huge guy and the MMA/BJJ guy being Brazilian

Atleif:
- Eye color is wrong in the standing animation Whoops again!
- Standing HP can cancel into some specials but not others. Was that on purpose? I was trying to make the combo system a bit more limited and deliberate in this game but after a while I cut loose a bit, I think I just forgot to apply that to Atleif, I will address this
- His cancels are oddly limited compared to other characters. Normally this is a ticket to the bottom tiers Same as above, lol

Will return with more when I get the chance. I really hope so, I want to make this game as good and as balanced as possible!

Thanks for the feedback, I'm working on fixing stuff now!

Speaking of Quavon, I think his red trunks palette has a bug where his trunks change color to blue during certain animtaions.

Yeah so I completely fucked up his palette when I added the "Q" to his chest, and I didn't realize it until I had added all the new sprites to the .sff. So rather than fix the sprites, I just tried to fix the palettes and this is one I missed. He used to have a bunch of good color separation since he was designed to be headswapped but I ruined it and didn't want to add the "Q" to every sprite all over again. I feel dumb for missing this, I just fixed it and will be in the next update. Thanks for catching this for me!

Download Last Bout now!
Last Edit: February 23, 2022, 08:59:54 pm by Sean Altly
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#22  February 23, 2022, 09:29:12 pm
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Speaking of Quavon, I think his red trunks palette has a bug where his trunks change color to blue during certain animations.

Yeah so I completely fucked up his palette when I added the "Q" to his chest, and I didn't realize it until I had added all the new sprites to the .sff. So rather than fix the sprites, I just tried to fix the palettes and this is one I missed. He used to have a bunch of good color separation since he was designed to be headswapped but I ruined it and didn't want to add the "Q" to every sprite all over again. I feel dumb for missing this, I just fixed it and will be in the next update. Thanks for catching this for me!


Ah, you're very welcome. ^w^ I was watching Mete/BurningSoul stream Last Bout when I noticed the palette bug.
I haven't tested the game just yet, but I'll do so later & tell you if I find any other bugs & stuff.
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#23  February 23, 2022, 11:20:28 pm
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Is there a way to detect Training Mode in Mugen? I think I Googled this once and forgot
I made some quick tests and looked around for what others came up with, and my conclusion is it's not worth the trouble afterall. Unless you really wanted that feature.

Quote
I guess my thought process here was that the moves are slow and telegraphed by the flash so they're easily interrupted, but if it looks like they'll be too much of an issue I can change it. I may add a roll or spot dodge mechanic in the future as well
The problem is when the slow startup is hidden behind the hit stun of other attacks, or on wakeup. As merely food for thought, SF4 solved it with invincible back dashes.

Quote
Bryce:
I shall change the manual, and add a note that in order to stop doing pushups you have to press Taunt again
Having a taunt that goes on forever unless you cancel it may be weird. Another way to do it would be to do pushups for as long as you keep holding start.

Quote
I was trying to make the combo system a bit more limited and deliberate in this game but after a while I cut loose a bit, I think I just forgot to apply that to Atleif, I will address this
This is of course subjective, but I think that, with the way the game feels overall, loose combos make more sense indeed.

More quick stuff:

- Following the game's logic, forward and back jumps could fill the respective power bars as well

Bryce:
- Jumping hard punch, when hitting air to air, allows the opponent to recover before he does. Could be an issue with more normals that hit downward
- London Fire Clsn1 is too big

Siege:
- Similar issues with her cancels as with Atleif
- It's easy to get an accidental super cancel when doing the full Gladio sequence, unless you do it slowly on purpose. One of those commands could be changed
- What's the purpose of reverse Rapide?

Zico:
- Maybe keep the flag with the right colors in all palettes. Imagine Tristan with an American flag that changes colors to see what I mean

The intro for the select screen's music reminds me of another one, but I can't recall what it is and it's killing me.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
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Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#24  February 24, 2022, 12:34:15 am
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Quote
The problem is when the slow startup is hidden behind the hit stun of other attacks, or on wakeup. As merely food for thought, SF4 solved it with invincible back dashes.

I just looked into this and this is a good idea, plus I don't have to add a new mechanic that requires new sprites.

Quote
- Following the game's logic, forward and back jumps could fill the respective power bars as well

Good point

Quote
Bryce:
- Jumping hard punch, when hitting air to air, allows the opponent to recover before he does. Could be an issue with more normals that hit downward
- London Fire Clsn1 is too big

A holdover from me starting with the CVTW template where that was big problem. I just realized a lot of characters probably have a similar issue, whoops

Quote
Siege:
- It's easy to get an accidental super cancel when doing the full Gladio sequence, unless you do it slowly on purpose. One of those commands could be changed
- What's the purpose of reverse Rapide?

-I will change the command to QCFx2+K
-I meant to add followups to this and I completely forgot. I actually may just remove it since she already has tons of mobility and her backdash is already really good, plus everyone's backdash will have invul soon

Quote
Zico:
- Maybe keep the flag with the right colors in all palettes. Imagine Tristan with an American flag that changes colors to see what I mean

This makes perfect sense, I was just being lazy, lol. I just got done fixing this, thanks!

Quote
The intro for the select screen's music reminds me of another one, but I can't recall what it is and it's killing me.

-Well I was looking for something with lots of horns. I originally was going to use Getaway Car by Aesop Rock (the instrumental version). The beginning also kind of reminds me of the Brooklyn Nine Nine theme song.

Thanks again, gonna get to work on some of this stuff!

Download Last Bout now!
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#25  February 24, 2022, 03:00:21 am
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Sir, wanted to tell you how fantastic this turned out!  Just played through Arcade mode a few times; enjoyed it immensely!
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#26  February 24, 2022, 08:55:34 am
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CONGRATULATIONS ON THE LAUNCH!
I am delighted to have been able to work as a designer on a game as varied and unique as Last Bout, I really enjoyed every moment working together with everyone!
I released a video on my channel demonstrating the game, designs, etc along with the download link to this forum.
Please enjoy everyone, and thanks for the kind words!

Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#27  February 24, 2022, 10:43:17 am
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Quavon:
- I really like the dynamic of Quavon Clutch, it's quite unique. Optimizing your followups depending on your position on the screen adds a nice layer of decision making.
- ReadMe says Quavon Crunch is performed by mashing LP/LK, but he does Widow Maker with LK. I think its a typo on the ReadMe because it seems intentional, as LK/HK decides the direction of the throw.
- I know all characters on the roster have little things that make them busted, but I think Quavon kinda cheats the grappler archetype too hard. I like that he can skip neutral with qcb+k, but I feel EX Shining Black is maybe too strong of a move. It's basically unreactable and has some very decent range so he starts forcing jumps at distances normal grapplers wouldn't. However, I think the real issue is that you can combo into it from light normals on block, which basically means he gets the knockdown whenever he has the bar, which means he gets to the grapppler's mixup with no effort whatsoever.

Gotta say it again: I love how the game feels and looks. Excellent job man, I'll keep labbing the rest of the cast.



I've noticed that Siege's Offensive Super dropped the target frequently when hitting airborne opponents, but I couldn't find a setup to consistently reproduce that bug. While labbing her theoretical max damaging combo, I got it:

https://streamable.com/wxpdmo

This specific combo uses the ego boosted Ascensio, which by the way I think is great. But I wish her taunt was shorter, because atm is very unpractical to setup. The taunt animation is long enough for your opponent to punish you even if you pop it after a knockdown. I feel her gameplay would gain a lot if the animation was fast enough for her to taunt safely after knockdown, but long enough for her to skip okizeme entirely after that. Oki is something Siege really appreciates because of the mantis slash pressure and crossup dash, so it would be a sizable prize to pay for the ego drive.
Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 11:22:55 am by KarmaCharmeleon
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#28  February 25, 2022, 12:15:17 am
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Sir, wanted to tell you how fantastic this turned out!  Just played through Arcade mode a few times; enjoyed it immensely!

Thanks!

CONGRATULATIONS ON THE LAUNCH!
I am delighted to have been able to work as a designer on a game as varied and unique as Last Bout, I really enjoyed every moment working together with everyone!
I released a video on my channel demonstrating the game, designs, etc along with the download link to this forum.
Please enjoy everyone, and thanks for the kind words!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNlQ7rKrIXI[/youtube]

Thanks again for your work Mordecool!

Quote
- ReadMe says Quavon Crunch is performed by mashing LP/LK, but he does Widow Maker with LK. I think its a typo on the ReadMe because it seems intentional, as LK/HK decides the direction of the throw.

I'm finding lots of little errors in the Manual, I must have rushed through it. That's a rookie move, lol

Quote
- I know all characters on the roster have little things that make them busted, but I think Quavon kinda cheats the grappler archetype too hard. I like that he can skip neutral with qcb+k, but I feel EX Shining Black is maybe too strong of a move. It's basically unreactable and has some very decent range so he starts forcing jumps at distances normal grapplers wouldn't. However, I think the real issue is that you can combo into it from light normals on block, which basically means he gets the knockdown whenever he has the bar, which means he gets to the grapppler's mixup with no effort whatsoever.

This is a fair assessment, I can probably just make it blockable and make it do a bit more damage or something to make it worth the EX

Quote
Gotta say it again: I love how the game feels and looks. Excellent job man, I'll keep labbing the rest of the cast.

I look forward to it!

Quote
I've noticed that Siege's Offensive Super dropped the target frequently when hitting airborne opponents, but I couldn't find a setup to consistently reproduce that bug. While labbing her theoretical max damaging combo, I got it:

https://streamable.com/wxpdmo

This specific combo uses the ego boosted Ascensio, which by the way I think is great. But I wish her taunt was shorter, because atm is very unpractical to setup. The taunt animation is long enough for your opponent to punish you even if you pop it after a knockdown. I feel her gameplay would gain a lot if the animation was fast enough for her to taunt safely after knockdown, but long enough for her to skip okizeme entirely after that. Oki is something Siege really appreciates because of the mantis slash pressure and crossup dash, so it would be a sizable prize to pay for the ego drive.

I will def shorten the taunt, and I will look into the issue with her dropping airborne opponents

Thanks again for the invaluable feedback!

Congrats on the release! That menu screen looks especially crisp. Great designs all around!



EDIT: I have to say, as a black man I really appreciate allowing 1P to be a black dude. It might seem super small but most fighting game companies don't even do this. Good to see the representation, even in an indie project. You're awesome.

Hey I noticed this edit way after the fact and I wanted to say thanks! I won't lie, waaaaay back when I first made Tristan, the idea was for him to front his own game, but the more I developed the other characters, the more sense it made to shift Bryce into the "Ryu" slot and Tristan into the "Ken" spot. The blonde white guy main character is kind of predictable, plus Bryce represents strength, hard work and dedication while still having a personality, and in the end Tristan became almost a kind of joke character, lol. Overall I just wanted the game to have a diverse, worldly cast.

------------------------------------------------

On a different note, here's an awesome launch trailer, created once again by Raging Rowen!


Download Last Bout now!
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#29  February 25, 2022, 04:56:47 am
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Good Game. I enjoyed playing it!
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Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#30  February 25, 2022, 05:48:25 pm
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Congrats on the full release of the game, Sean!
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Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#31  February 25, 2022, 08:04:07 pm
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Downloading now. Honestly, this has been the only fighting game-related thing I've been looking forward to, so I'm eager to try it out! :D

UPDATE: Honestly having a blast with every character, but Bryce I just clicked with immediately. Love how he has the closest things to a "magic series" chain in the cast - makes him easy to pick up for someone like me who prefers those.

One question - I thought Elle was British? At least I remember her being referred to as such in SHADEs 3. So how come she's under the French flag here? Or have I remembered wrong all this time?
Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 11:52:26 pm by Steel Komodo
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#32  February 26, 2022, 02:39:38 pm
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Illian:
- Crush Drive PalFX also affects the dust effect. Might happen with more chars
- When landing from Heaven's Gate, the Width parameter is too high and serves as an invisible barrier against counterattacks. I think that sctrl can be removed entirely
- At the end of Magnum Anvil, Illian is facing the wrong way, so to combo after it you have to do special motions (e.g. Heaven's Gate) backward. You can either fix this by remaking the inputs in the game (lots of work), or by just mirroring the animation
- Omnisphere is the best move in the game. "Period". It's too strong. The fastest, most effective nerf to it would probably be to make it one hit only. EX version is OK

System:
- Consider adding tech hits/throw escape since it's been a common thing since SF2. If you don't want to make new animations for it, you can do the type where the opponent lands on his feet and takes reduced damage.
- Have you thought about making normal attacks reset the opponent instead of juggling? That tends to make games more interesting.

A holdover from me starting with the CVTW template where that was big problem. I just realized a lot of characters probably have a similar issue, whoops
If you want to keep the downward hit, you can just make those attacks knock down.

- The powerbars could use more visual indication that they are full Great point, I will add some sort of indicator
Another thing is it's hard to tell when you have, say, 25% or 33% and can use the bar for something. You have to eyeball it right now.

- London Fire is basically invisible in the Dojo stage You're right, I will either add some sort of indicator or something the stage floor to fix this
You already made the projectile a helper, so you could give it different transparency parameters when on that stage.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#33  February 26, 2022, 11:33:24 pm
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Congrats on the full release of the game, Sean!

Thank you thank you!

One question - I thought Elle was British? At least I remember her being referred to as such in SHADEs 3. So how come she's under the French flag here? Or have I remembered wrong all this time?

You're correct, it explains in her intro that she is French born but raised in the UK. I wanted to include her but didn't want repeat Nations, so this is how I explained it. I got the idea from Noam Dar in the WWE Cruiserweight Classic some years ago, he's Scottish but was born in Israel so they had him representing Israel.

Illian:
- Crush Drive PalFX also affects the dust effect. Might happen with more chars Whoops
- When landing from Heaven's Gate, the Width parameter is too high and serves as an invisible barrier against counterattacks. I think that sctrl can be removed entirely I added that for some specific reason I can no longer remember, so to be safe I just made a new landing state without that sctrl in it
- At the end of Magnum Anvil, Illian is facing the wrong way, so to combo after it you have to do special motions (e.g. Heaven's Gate) backward. You can either fix this by remaking the inputs in the game (lots of work), or by just mirroring the animation Ohhhh okay I will check this out
- Omnisphere is the best move in the game. "Period". It's too strong. The fastest, most effective nerf to it would probably be to make it one hit only. EX version is OK I went back and forth a bunch of times on this, at one point it was only one hit, I should have left it like that

System:
- Consider adding tech hits/throw escape since it's been a common thing since SF2. If you don't want to make new animations for it, you can do the type where the opponent lands on his feet and takes reduced damage. I actually looked into this at the last second, I was trying to find like a tutorial but no matter how I searched it I couldn't find what I was looking for. I will keep looking though because it's a feature I wanted to add
- Have you thought about making normal attacks reset the opponent instead of juggling? That tends to make games more interesting. I'm going to sound really dumb here, but what does that entail? Making them recover in the air into a custom state that's invulnerable until they land? Or am I mixing up my fighting game terms, which I often do, lol

Quote
If you want to keep the downward hit, you can just make those attacks knock down.
Will do

Quote
Another thing is it's hard to tell when you have, say, 25% or 33% and can use the bar for something. You have to eyeball it right now.
I will have to see if Mordecool can add something like this since he did the screenpack but it's def a priority

Quote
You already made the projectile a helper, so you could give it different transparency parameters when on that stage.
I keep forgetting new Mugen has the stage variable stuff now

----------------------------------------------------------

I'm working on the first update everyone, it will just be a big patch to fix everything I've gotten to so far from everyone's feedback. I will probably put out that update Monday or Tuesday!

Download Last Bout now!
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#34  February 27, 2022, 09:48:29 am
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I actually looked into this at the last second, I was trying to find like a tutorial but no matter how I searched it I couldn't find what I was looking for. I will keep looking though because it's a feature I wanted to add
All my characters have it, if you want to check it out. But it's the type where both characters do a "whoops" pose and move away from each other. You have some options here I guess:

- Make new animations for throws being escaped
- Recycle animations for the same purpose. Like, the thrower does a throw miss animation and the throwee does a light punch or so, and they move away from each other. This could look lazy in an original game like yours
- Both characters do a guard pose, and there's a special effect and sound to let you know it's a throw escape
- Use the land on feet type of air recover. It's a little more work in terms of code

I'm going to sound really dumb here, but what does that entail? Making them recover in the air into a custom state that's invulnerable until they land? Or am I mixing up my fighting game terms, which I often do, lol
More or less, but it's more simple. It means instead of keeping them in a knock down state, they make them land on their feet. In the old days it took some work to implement that behavior, but in 1.0+ you can just add forcenofall = 1 to normal attack hitdefs.

That reminds me of testing something in the game...

Because characters can't air guard, if you jab them out of the air, you can jab them again 7 or 8 times. Characters with a fast walk speed like Vidael even have infinites from that.
This is probably the biggest issue in the game so far, but the fix is simple: you should make state 5040 completely invulnerable to everything, and with ctrl = 0. Think of it like a state 5120 in the air.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#35  February 28, 2022, 06:10:55 pm
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Everything looks pro. The design and care of the general aesthetics is amazing.
My petty and ambitious wish is that hopefully you plan to extend the life of the project with DLC seasons.
Congratulations and thanks for the release.
This game is 100% getting at least two more characters, and I have 8 more total planned out. I just didn't want to overextend myself and wanted to make sure the base game was good and felt complete. Also thanks!
That sounds very smart. It's also good to know that you plan to extend the story of the game. Good luck and continue to enjoy the release.
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#36  February 28, 2022, 08:26:21 pm
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Wow, this is such a fun game! I'm again at a loss of words for your creativity and quality.
I am having so much fun with this game, yet the little time I've had with it. Atleif, Zico, Siege and Vidael are so much fun to play so far! Love the originality and different styles that are indeed clashing, hehe. Loss at words. Congratulations! SHADES was one thing, but this. WOW.
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Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash
#37  March 01, 2022, 04:29:11 am
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Thanks again everyone, it really means a lot!

----------------------------------------------

GAME UPDATED 2/28


I've updated the game with lots of fixes and changes. The link to the patch is in the first post. If you haven't downloaded the game yet, the regular DL link has been updated so the patch isn't needed. Here is the Change Log:

CHANGE LOG:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Download Last Bout now!
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash (Updated w/patch 2/28/2022)
#38  March 01, 2022, 05:15:36 am
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Well, I've just come from essentially beating Arcade Mode with every character and I have to say it was quite great! This new gameplay was certainly different from what I was used to with SHADEs and CvTW, but it was still just as fun nonetheless. It reminded me, a little bit, of the times when SHADEs had revitalized my interest in Mugen years ago, made me interested in that rather well-elaborated story built around this cast of characters with whacky powers trying to save New York from destruction; now it's time they passed the torch to a new cast, and I'm certainly looking forward to what Tristan and co. will offer down the line (my favourites so far being Vidael and Atleif).

Now, I'd have to go hunt down bugs if possible, but I just wanna point this out: Elle's Maximum Overdrive only consumes the Offensive bar, it needs both full bars to work, but only consumes one. And for the matter being, I made sure to install the new patch and check it before mentioning this.

There's not much else to say, but, if you ever include a Mexican character, I'd gladly audition to voice him.

Thank you so much, Sean. You once again proved you're one of the best Mugen creators out there.
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash (Updated w/patch 2/28/2022)
#39  March 01, 2022, 10:14:09 pm
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Based on some quick testing and that changelog, this update = :2thumbsup:
You work fast.

I just noticed that the Peaceful River stage has layering issues with the power bars.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.
Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 10:29:21 pm by PotS
Re: Last Bout: Styles Will Clash (Updated w/patch 2/28/2022)
#40  March 02, 2022, 01:43:48 am
  • **
  • Ryoga
    • Brazil
    • www.vgbr.com/forum
Good work dude. Your game is fantastic.
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