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Mugen survival slam (a future idea I'd like to implement for a series on YT) (Read 4688 times)

Started by Amidweiz, October 21, 2019, 07:59:33 AM
Mugen survival slam (a future idea I'd like to implement for a series on YT)
#1  October 21, 2019, 07:59:33 AM
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As the title states, this is an idea of mine that I had brewing in my mind for a future series I would like to do involving members of the community. I was going to dump the idea all here on this post but I'd rather share the presentation I'd made to lay down the idea. Any criticism with idea is welcome as this is not exactly final yet I could use a second opinion on this. 

Download to presentation (and yes I use LibreOffice, I'm sure MS PowerPoint can open this): https://www.mediafire.com/file/8cs0jgli4gaim1m/mugen_survival_slam_-_Copy.odp/file

EDIT: updated the presentation
Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 08:02:35 AM by Amidweiz

TiE

Re: Mugen survival slam (a future idea I'd like to implement for a series on YT)
#2  October 21, 2019, 10:08:41 AM
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This reads fine in Office 2010, though the titles are tilted.
Interesting concept.
But imho you should drop the idea in a spoiler here if you want the community to take part.
It ain't that much and despite the rule set the presentation method is not too important at first.

Some things that popped up for me:

1.) I would simplify the "positive" scoring page 9 towards the (better) negative one.
Or questions like: "What about counter moves, guard cancel, etc.?" will arise.
Question already is if you - after simplifying page 9 - can ditch page 10 completely.
Since you don't mention starting points, so initial losses will give negative results.

2.) Winning by time over gives 50 points / losing a round costs 100 points - I'd say drop this completely or even the odds.
Despite winning by time over means you weren't good enough...

3.) Chars like Tarma from Metal Slug are chibi. Personally I have those in my roster. I fight them regardless of their size.
You don't plan to scale (or at least you don't mention it) big chars either. Take TamTam from Samurai Shodown for example.
I'd prefer to dismiss that rule.
And the chars look crappy when scaled up.

4.) All you write does imply you accept the use of AI controlled chars in your tournament.
Personally I wouldn't allow AI control outside the triggered events during normal play. Therefore state it 100% clear!
//AI matches welcome OR AI matches illegal.\\
You can drop the - pArry on sight - then, too... If somebody can read you well and is good with a parry-happy char, he/she would face possible ban regarding your rules.
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Re: Mugen survival slam (a future idea I'd like to implement for a series on YT)
#3  October 22, 2019, 01:24:51 AM
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One thing I probably should have noted that this is involving mugen AI in watch mode since this does gives context especially the rules, to this which I'll update the presentation to make that more explicit (and I mainly just shared the presentation rather than dump it to a post is because I'm a bit lazy and not wanting to format it that way).

1.) I would simplify the "positive" scoring page 9 towards the (better) negative one.
Or questions like: "What about counter moves, guard cancel, etc.?" will arise.
Question already is if you - after simplifying page 9 - can ditch page 10 completely.
Since you don't mention starting points, so initial losses will give negative results.

2.) Winning by time over gives 50 points / losing a round costs 100 points - I'd say drop this completely or even the odds.
Despite winning by time over means you weren't good enough...

The main reason why the scoring is like that is because upon how I'm setting up how rajaa boy's points system detects when to add score to the helper. I'm mainly trying to get it as generic as possible so you can put it in any character. Not sure how I'd get it to detect those yet so the system is still a wip at this point (which mainly just consists of getting it to add up the var correctly)

3.) Chars like Tarma from Metal Slug are chibi. Personally I have those in my roster. I fight them regardless of their size.
You don't plan to scale (or at least you don't mention it) big chars either. Take TamTam from Samurai Shodown for example.
I'd prefer to dismiss that rule.
And the chars look crappy when scaled up.

4.) All you write does imply you accept the use of AI controlled chars in your tournament.
Personally I wouldn't allow AI control outside the triggered events during normal play. Therefore state it 100% clear!
//AI matches welcome OR AI matches illegal.\\
You can drop the - pArry on sight - then, too... If somebody can read you well and is good with a parry-happy char, he/she would face possible ban regarding your rules.

These rules are mainly in place because this is involving the majority of mugen AI I've seen and they tend to not be bright when it comes to characters smaller than it's standing punches. I do know they don't look so great upscaled but it's that or just banning them all together due to size advantage.  The perrying everything in sight when the AI is just not fun to watch at all when almost every attack gets perfectly perried. It pretty much forces people to pick characters to counter act this.
Re: Mugen survival slam (a future idea I'd like to implement for a series on YT)
#4  February 28, 2021, 08:57:16 AM
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An update to this idea, albeit just through text. Considering the developments of Ikemen GO plus in which it has a score system as well as data persistence, It'd be better suited for that engine because of it. I do need some input upon some systems I would want to implement in the series

Score system:
With this being an engine mechanic in ikemen GO plus and how it works, It would be easier to have a team score rather than an individual character score which would simplify things. The score values for the system I intend to be the default values that come with ikemen GO plus since they're pretty good as is.

Nerfing system:
Yet another system where it determines how much heath the winner has left over after a KO, and if it's closer to 0 rather than 1000, it will nerf them by adding a negative value to a attack mul set by how much health they have left over. If it's a time over than it will compare p1 and p2's life in a similar fashion, not sure how'd tackle characters with different health values though. The loser will also get a slight boost of attack as well depending upon the winners health. Not sure if I should do this per match or per round, I'm thinking more of the ladder that the former. This in theory should nerf more dominant AIs so they would have a harder time getting the KO and boost weaker AI's so they can get a win

Elimination system:
It will be still based of losses but I'm not sure if said losses should reset completely, decrement by 1, or stay the same if they do get a win. There will still be elimination matches.

I'm also wondering what systems I should use, mainly if I should just have the score system and the elimination system on their own... or should they stay combined like what I have. If people would rather see their AI characters battle for score or just survival by itself.
Re: Mugen survival slam (a future idea I'd like to implement for a series on YT)
#5  February 28, 2021, 02:15:49 PM
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Sounds convoluted but ambitious. If it does happen, I'll surely have a chance at it.
Re: Mugen survival slam (a future idea I'd like to implement for a series on YT)
New #6  March 05, 2021, 07:32:22 AM
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Sounds convoluted but ambitious. If it does happen, I'll surely have a chance at it.

It is somewhat but I feel it could be a pretty decent twist on the YT AI watch series idea that you saw a few years back. Currently just trying to implement said nerfing system in ZSS since that would defiantly break the staleness that they bring with the more top tier characters slowly getting nerfed over time with their attack and maybe defense if need be when they rack up those Ws. It's been uh... "fun" so far trying to implement that.

EDIT: Pretty much have the nerfing system down pat, just need to get the buffing system along with the saving and loading functions to load properly



Spoiler: rank.zss so far (click to see content)
Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 09:35:15 PM by Amidweiz