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Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy  (Read 9437 times)

Started by KarmaCharmeleon, May 30, 2022, 09:18:39 PM
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Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#1  May 30, 2022, 09:18:39 PM
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I'm extremely proud of this collab.
Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 10:56:41 PM by KarmaCharmeleon
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#2  May 30, 2022, 09:41:33 PM
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hope we can do it again sometime.
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#3  May 30, 2022, 09:44:04 PM
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Nice! Grats on the release!
"Such Heroic Nonsense!"

Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#4  May 30, 2022, 10:50:10 PM
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Maaaaaaaaan, I am going to test this guy over the weekend and let you guys know if I find anything funny.\

Gratz on the release, im sure you guys did a wonderful job.
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#5  May 31, 2022, 02:47:30 AM
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Nice release! I can't say much because I never touched Raiden, will if I find some bugs though.
Meanwhile I did the cvs pro palettes:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#6  May 31, 2022, 05:40:32 AM
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Amazing, I'm looking forward to trying him out!
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#7  June 01, 2022, 04:11:44 PM
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Not sure if I am going things incorrectly but I cant cancel out of the drop kick to the shoulder tackle.
I just cant do it, Raiden is always down on the ground.

Im trying to do this combo


One more thing, the "bomba"  and " I am Raiden" soundbites are way to cool to be reserved just for the slam and win pose.
Bomba means a bomb pretty much lol so it can fit even on the second part of the level 3 I would add randomizer between the sound bytes when doing any slam or the level 3, or maybe have the I am Raiden bite have a chance to play when he activates excel.
As it is right now he yells the Giten or whatever constantly.

This is very nitpicky but just a suggestion, you can also add the ICHBAO or whatever when he activates excel as well amd have all 3 of them play at random.

Lets say if the soundbites are randomized you can get the I am Raiden when he starts the level 3 and bomba on the second part. I feel it makes the char a tad bit more fun.

So far I have not found anything to report but im still messing around with him.

One more thing that I think would be cool is maybe add that spinny ground bounce state when he does his EX Slam and lets say he can follow that up with a drop kick or something, however that will need some fiddling around and testing.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 04:43:02 PM by PeXXeR
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#8  June 01, 2022, 05:54:32 PM
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Not sure if I am going things incorrectly but I cant cancel out of the drop kick to the shoulder tackle.
I just cant do it, Raiden is always down on the ground.
that is because you need to charge dropkick long enough. in cvs2 if you charge dropkick long enough it gains extra properties, similar to that of boxer's turn punch. at level 3 and 4 raiden does the dropkick and lands on the floor perfectly, allowing an extra juggle into things like a normal or EX giant bomb. it does take a while to get dropkick to that level, but the burst damage raiden gets from it is huge, parroting his KOF 13 gameplan.

One more thing, the "bomba"  and " I am Raiden" soundbites are way to cool to be reserved just for the slam and win pose.
Bomba means a bomb pretty much lol so it can fit even on the second part of the level 3 I would add randomizer between the sound bytes when doing any slam or the level 3, or maybe have the I am Raiden bite have a chance to play when he activates excel.
As it is right now he yells the Giten or whatever constantly.
The bomba voice was included in the level 3 at some point in development, but now it isn't. I guess that could warrant a change. as for excel, the voice clip will remain the same to stay accurate to source, as raiden does say his destruction drop voice clip in CC. The lvl 3 voice can change, but the excel voice will be unchanged.

One more thing that I think would be cool is maybe add that spinny ground bounce state when he does his EX Slam and lets say he can follow that up with a drop kick or something, however that will need some fiddling around and testing.
Raiden already has 2 juggle resets in EX giant bomb and lvl3/4 dropkick, and there's juggles from CBB as well. EX lariat is meant to be a grapple move that continues pressure for Raiden, as none of his other command grabs give the same reward outside of big damage. it would just be a little too over saturated with juggle resets if EX lariat was also a juggle reset.

Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#9  June 01, 2022, 06:06:18 PM
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Quote
that is because you need to charge dropkick long enough. in cvs2 if you charge dropkick long enough it gains extra properties, similar to that of boxer's turn punch. at level 3 and 4 raiden does the dropkick and lands on the floor perfectly, allowing an extra juggle into things like a normal or EX giant bomb. it does take a while to get dropkick to that level, but the burst damage raiden gets from it is huge, parroting his KOF 13 gameplan.

Well, I guess I am not meeting the conditions or something because I sat there like a melon charging it for 10 seconds and he still falls on his bottom.

Quote
The bomba voice was included in the level 3 at some point in development, but now it isn't. I guess that could warrant a change. as for excel, the voice clip will remain the same to stay accurate to source, as raiden does say his destruction drop voice clip in CC. The lvl 3 voice can change, but the excel voice will be unchanged.

Im pretty sure you can randomize a few soundbites on a move for mugen right ?  would be cool if you have a few soundbites that are random but still make sense, the BOMBA soundbite can work for any of his grabs/slams etc, there's no need for them to be set in stone.

Lets say when you do the level 3 you have 2 soundbite options the ICHBAO or whatever it is and the I am Raiden one.
For the second part of the level 3 you would have 2 again, the BOMBA and the Giten or whatever it is and MUGEN/IKEMEN, will pick em at random.

As for accuracy, I respect it, but again its just a soundbite, you're not changing how the char plays.


Quote
Raiden already has 2 juggle resets in EX giant bomb and lvl3/4 dropkick, and there's juggles from CBB as well. EX lariat is meant to be a grapple move that continues pressure for Raiden, as none of his other command grabs give the same reward outside of big damage. it would just be a little too over saturated with juggle resets if EX lariat was also a juggle reset.


Sounds fair, I just though it would give him a bit more spice, he can still keep pressure with it even if it has a ground bounce, cause of projectiles Raiden will be forced in the corner at one point of the match, you can use the EX slam  to a drop kick to reverse corner pressure, on the other hand it makes it even more dangerous in my mind and is a tidy little buff for him and I can see that you guys were true to source and kept his insane range so  the OP will be in trouble if that were to happen.

Speaking of it, it uses a punch sound when you hit the slam, I would add something with a bit more oomph to it.

Anyway, those were extremely nitpicky, you guys did an awesome job with him.

Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 06:41:50 PM by PeXXeR
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#10  June 01, 2022, 08:01:42 PM
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Solid as a rock. Just a few things.

-Combination Body Blow and Jumping Lariat commands are swapped on read me
-Bearhug is actually a Choke lift

I can't for the life of me do theDestruciton Drop. I main wrestlers, so 360's are no issue, but I can't do this move. The piledriver looks more like a powerbomb too, but also resembles a "Gonzo Bomb" which is actually a type of "driver". So it depends on interpretation. I'm a wrestling geek so...lol!

Do your best to become stronger. Become stronger, so you can do your best.

Mugen is a way for me to remain nostalgic with all of the dream matches I cooked up as a kid. It's also what I call a "Digital Action Figure Collection."
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[/quote said:
Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 08:05:15 PM by Vegaz_Parrelli
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#11  June 02, 2022, 05:51:20 AM
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What a dynamic duo release! The double dragons! Would love to see 1 or 2 more from this dynamic duo in the near future.
UMT Season #2 - 2nd Place
UMT Season #3 - 1st Place
CvS2 vs POTS Season #1 - 1st Place
NorCal Crab Battle CvS2 - 2nd Place
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#12  June 02, 2022, 12:51:07 PM
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Now this is perfect. Good job, I could have to play him alot.
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#13  June 02, 2022, 04:39:39 PM
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hope we can do it again sometime.
For sure we will :] maybe sometime we can do the inverse and I can code the general moves and you can code around it being a CvS2 character instead of being a PotS Styled one :O

Nice! Grats on the release!

Maaaaaaaaan, I am going to test this guy over the weekend and let you guys know if I find anything funny.\

Gratz on the release, im sure you guys did a wonderful job.

Amazing, I'm looking forward to trying him out!

What a dynamic duo release! The double dragons! Would love to see 1 or 2 more from this dynamic duo in the near future.

Now this is perfect. Good job, I could have to play him alot.

Thank you so much guys!

Solid as a rock. Just a few things.

-Combination Body Blow and Jumping Lariat commands are swapped on read me
-Bearhug is actually a Choke lift
Thanks! Got any sources on those names? The name of the throws and command normals is usually hard to find. I referenced this GameFaqs entry for those:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/arcade/562704-capcom-vs-snk-2/faqs/15873

I can't for the life of me do theDestruciton Drop. I main wrestlers, so 360's are no issue, but I can't do this move. The piledriver looks more like a powerbomb too, but also resembles a "Gonzo Bomb" which is actually a type of "driver". So it depends on interpretation. I'm a wrestling geek so...lol!
I'll look into this!

Not sure if I am going things incorrectly but I cant cancel out of the drop kick to the shoulder tackle.
I just cant do it, Raiden is always down on the ground.

Im trying to do this combo
Well, I guess I am not meeting the conditions or something because I sat there like a melon charging it for 10 seconds and he still falls on his bottom.
Lvl 1 SDK needs 3/4 of a second
Lvl 2 SDK needs 6 seconds
lvl 3 SDK needs 18 seconds
lvl 4 SDK needs 36 seconds
It seems like a lot isn't it? Below I'll go into detail about Raiden's design, although Saltyy already alluded to SDK working like Boxer's Turn Punch or Shizumaru's Kyourakuzan.
This is very nitpicky but just a suggestion, you can also add the ICHBAO or whatever when he activates excel as well amd have all 3 of them play at random...
Not feeling the CC thing but I added the Bomber clip at the end of the lv.3. It was a good fit and I think saltyy thinks that as well.

One more thing that I think would be cool is maybe add that spinny ground bounce state when he does his EX Slam and lets say he can follow that up with a drop kick or something, however that will need some fiddling around and testing.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Quote
I just though it would give him a bit more spice, he can still keep pressure with it even if it has a ground bounce, cause of projectiles Raiden will be forced in the corner at one point of the match, you can use the EX slam  to a drop kick to reverse corner pressure, on the other hand it makes it even more dangerous in my mind and is a tidy little buff for him and I can see that you guys were true to source and kept his insane range so  the OP will be in trouble if that were to happen.
I really dislike the spiny ground bounce from KoF XIV-XV. It looks goofy af. I went as far as to reimagine the lv.3 to avoid that shit. Even then, a functional juggle from the grab is not something we'd like to explore. It adds too much of a reward for a mix. As saltyy said before, he already has nice juggling capabilities on EX Shoulder and SDK. He even can juggle from anything but throws with flame breath super, which is one of the spiciest things any PotS and even CvS2 character could ever ask for.

Another thing is that Raiden has a very volatile gameplay. He plays defense until he has lvl 3 or lvl 4 SDK, which turns him into a terrifying monster that can win footsies easily with his invincibility and dish a shit ton of damage as a reward with both the raw damage of SDK and the subsequent juggles it allows. We designed Raiden around fully charged SDK, being a decent character (he is still buffed from CvS2) whenever he doesn't have SDK, and becoming a monster whenever he has it (he is almost guarantee to win the round if he hits SDK with half a bar). I don't think buffing EX Jumping Lariat is the way to go because of this. I in fact thought about enabling you to combo into EX Jumping Lariat at some point; and I regretted rather instantly with how strong he was in the end.

Raiden is quite a different character from anything else I made. Its a really lategame character that plays different from both grapplers and no grapplers. I'm glad Saltyy choose this character as otherwise I'd never explore him.

Nice release! I can't say much because I never touched Raiden, will if I find some bugs though.
Meanwhile I did the cvs pro palettes:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Thank you so much for the palettes dude :]



So there's a small update on the works, at the moment with these many changes:
Quote
<02/06/2022>
 - Fixed a mistake on the ReadMe.
 - Dodge attacks now behave properly (punch knocks down, kick is special cancelable).
 - Added the "Bomber!" voice clip at the end of Raiden's lv.3.
I still want to look into the issues with 360s, and foremost, I want to implement color separation.

Knuckles8864 did one of the most ambitious color separations ever with this one:

Yet, as a byproduct of such ambition, the separation ended up having a fair amount of issues. Because of this we'd like to implement the separation with a couple of goals in mind.
First we'd like to tone down the color count and reorder the indexing:

First is CS, second is Default pal
We want to make the palette making process more intuitive with this arrangement. We will sadly have to cut down cool parts of the separation like the pecs or some of the lines of the arrow that corrected shirtless palettes, but maybe that's necessary to apply the fixes needed and address the inconsistencies.
Second, we'd like to fix inconsistencies like these:

Finally, in consonance with the previous point, we'd like to guarantee that once the default palette is applied, there's 0 difference between the CSed sprite and the non-csed rip, which is something the current separation isn't allowing due to minor errors on the area of the eyes and the belly.

This will take a bit of time, but 99% of the effort was already made by Knuckles, so its nothing compared to his feat :P



Hopefully Saltyy and I can teamup for another PotS Styled character in the future. The character creation process was streamlined a lot by cooperating, especially considering that since the character was started, the only reason it took longer than it should was because of my very tight schedule.

Hopefully in the future we can tackle some other characters that don't receive that much love from the CvS2 roster, like Todoh or Chang.
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#14  June 02, 2022, 05:51:53 PM
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Oh! very nice!
Only good thing can happen when you combine skilled creators like you guys!

I like the touches on sprites, because they still keep the CVS essence without going too far into adding details.

Trying Kinu Nishimura Style for custom portraits...

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Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#15  June 02, 2022, 05:56:07 PM
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I do agree that the spinny state looks a tad bit goofy, however the fun factor it adds is worth it in my mind, if you can implement a state like that you can open up to a lot of follow ups and stuff and I feel it couples well with Raiden's insane grab range.

But hey, if you don't like the mechanic and you think its to much for Raiden given his other options that is perfectly fine.

As for goofy in general, Most 2d capcom fighters are filled to the brim with goofy stuff, char animations etc.
Quote
Lvl 1 SDK needs 3/4 of a second
Lvl 2 SDK needs 6 seconds
lvl 3 SDK needs 18 seconds
lvl 4 SDK needs 36 seconds

I really like the idea of this and how unique it is, however 36 seconds is a lot of time and Im not sure if its even worth it instead of lets say charging my bar, however my experience with Raiden is next to 0.

On the other hand though if you plan for it and land it its gonna be awesome af.

As for the sprites, I had no clue that he was not CS'ed
Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 06:18:35 PM by PeXXeR
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#16  June 02, 2022, 07:22:18 PM
  • *****
  • I must continue my training...

Do your best to become stronger. Become stronger, so you can do your best.

Mugen is a way for me to remain nostalgic with all of the dream matches I cooked up as a kid. It's also what I call a "Digital Action Figure Collection."
MaxBeta link=topic=155656.msg1876950#msg1876950 date=13867
Vegaz_Parrelli...also known as The Lord of the Rings.
[/quote said:
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#17  June 02, 2022, 09:16:02 PM
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  • Was it something I said?

Knuckles8864 did one of the most ambitious color separations ever with this one:

Yet, as a byproduct of such ambition, the separation ended up having a fair amount of issues. Because of this we'd like to implement the separation with a couple of goals in mind.
First we'd like to tone down the color count and reorder the indexing:

First is CS, second is Default pal
We want to make the palette making process more intuitive with this arrangement. We will sadly have to cut down cool parts of the separation like the pecs or some of the lines of the arrow that corrected shirtless palettes, but maybe that's necessary to apply the fixes needed and address the inconsistencies.
Second, we'd like to fix inconsistencies like these:

Finally, in consonance with the previous point, we'd like to guarantee that once the default palette is applied, there's 0 difference between the CSed sprite and the non-csed rip, which is something the current separation isn't allowing due to minor errors on the area of the eyes and the belly.

This will take a bit of time, but 99% of the effort was already made by Knuckles, so its nothing compared to his feat :P

I was wondering about that elephant in the room when it came to Raiden, and honestly, that was the most maddening part about him in general. I don't blame you at all for toning down some of his CS work as some of it does look wrong at the end without having to do the extra work of... basically making a whole new sprite sheet. Which, even Jmorphman had said would've been maddening if I recall.

Also, I have no idea why I didn't just edit Raiden's face in the areas shown there. Maybe because I figured they were different in their own ways? Who knows. XD

I'm honestly glad you guys did such a fantastic job with Raiden here!
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#18  June 03, 2022, 02:31:27 AM
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Thanks! Got any sources on those names? The name of the throws and command normals is usually hard to find. I referenced this GameFaqs entry for those:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/arcade/562704-capcom-vs-snk-2/faqs/15873
These are the official names
Quote
punch throw: Crusher Bomb
kick throw: Neck Hanging Breaker

df + HK: Stomp Kick
jumping d + HP: Flying Body Press

charge b, f + P: Giant Bomb
hcb + P: Dokugiri (translation: Poison Mist)
charge 3k: Super Drop Kick
360 + k: Thunder Crush Bomb
b,d,db + p: Raiden Combination Body Blow
 - qcb + p: Headbutt
 - qcb + k: Front Suplex

720 + k: Destruction Drop
hcbx2 + p: Fire Breath
qcfx2 + p: Crazy Train
For games released around the time of SFIV/XIII and after the in-game movesets are pretty reliable and accurate. Anything from before then, however, is a little dicier when it comes to English language sources. I honestly wouldn't trust most places.

This Japanese language wiki has pretty much every fighting game character, along with every move they've ever had, all using the official names and shit. It even will point out situations where a move might have multiple names but is meant to be the same, or if a move acts radically different but always has the same move; it really covers all bases. The only thing they don't cover are normal throws, unfortunately.

And then there's the Japanese CvS2 guidebook, that's like the ultimate sanity check for "what is the official name for this".
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#19  June 03, 2022, 04:44:21 PM
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I see this collaboration bore fruit.
Re: Raiden by KarmaCharmeleon && JtheSaltyy
#20  June 04, 2022, 01:17:02 PM
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Looks and plays great but why is his lvl 3 the same as his normal special?